Mafia Invictus ~ Game Over!

[Benmage]

Where's the case on Vitamin again?

Can we start posting votes with Reason.

ZACH

- explain gut. Just for the record.

[Zachrulez]

Fate seriously.
Calm the hell down or I'm replacing out. You're being an absolute shithead and you being right about sila doesn't mean that you should or are going to lead the town from here are out.

Zach I'll explain if you ask nicely.

Well it's not me you really need to explain it to, but I do want one.

[Zachrulez]

@Benmage Iso 26 explains it.

[Benmage]

Ah right, I recall that.

[Fate]

Yes we are all aware of your fuckin Gut read.

If you want to be a TEAM PLAYER invictus vote him and maybe we'll fucking sheep you and have Gut shot tonight.

[Benmage]

Actually thats a great call.

I can't think of a better person than Gut to invictus.

Invictus Gut

[Zachrulez]

Yeah, but see, I'd rather he die now.

[The Illuminati]

I don't really relish dying, sorry.

We don't.

Whatever.

Welp, you've just got me for a while and I still don't think MoI is scum and I don't give a shit if that arrests Fate's ire. I'm interested in lynching scum rather than lyching whoever Fate pulls off the list. Because your "hammer now" plan really worked. It found us...oh wait. It's for reactions, my ass. Stop covering up and start lynching scum.

Vote: Gut

Just for kicks, I'll play along with the Invictus vote thing.

Invictus: Nautilius

[The Illuminati]

~Seraphim

[Fate]

Get your vote on MoI and I'll make a Gut invictus happen.

This is your only chance at a deal.

[Ban]

Where's the case on Vitamin again?

Can we start posting votes with Reason.

ZACH- explain gut. Just for the record.

Pretty much in my ISO, he knows what it is.

Why no call out on Gamma's vote?

[Zachrulez]

I don't think either Fate or MOI are scum btw.

[Fate]

Ban, make an interesting funny post about inneundos or what have you and vote MoI.

For the love of all things sane

[Zachrulez]

Where's the case on Vitamin again?

Can we start posting votes with Reason.

ZACH- explain gut. Just for the record.

Pretty much in my ISO, he knows what it is.

Why no call out on Gamma's vote?

There really isn't anything to call out. He's not really giving anything with his vote.

He's felt off all game and I haven't been able to put my finger on why that is.

[Fate]

I don't think either Fate or MOI are scum btw.

Well you're easily fooled then. Because exactly ONE of us are scum and I'd be playing exactly LIKE this if I were scum.

But I'm town, ergo MoI is the scum between us.

[Benmage]

Where's the case on Vitamin again?

Can we start posting votes with Reason.

ZACH- explain gut. Just for the record.

Pretty much in my ISO, he knows what it is.

Why no call out on Gamma's vote?

Gamma is conftown in my book. And Vitamin looked protwn on pg 27.

Vote Gut

Invictus Nautilus.

I'd agree these would be my top 2 for today.

[Fate]

I can't believe this shit is happening.

Are you guys fucking serious

GUT IS WILLING TO BUS MOI

MORE VOTES=EASIER TIME LYNCHING SCUM

EASIER TIME LYNCHING MOI SCUM=GAME WON

Lynching MoI and invicting Gut would be a double scumflip.

It apparently wouldn't work the other way around with all your derps alive

[Fate]

Nautilius is TOWN by the way.

TOWN

[Benmage]

Nautilius is TOWN by the way.

TOWN

No way. See in my book. One of you and Nautilus is scum.

ANd I got you as town right now.

[Ban]

Ban, make an interesting funny post about inneundos or what have you and vote MoI.

Sorry, all I have ready is a piano soliloquy and a joke about two paper salesmen on a farm. ha ha... ahhh, it's... it's not even that funny really...

But I never made a deal with you to hammer anyone so you can't extort me into anything. sorry mate. Be happy with your invictus. Smile...

There really isn't anything to call out. He's not really giving anything with his vote.

He's felt off all game and I haven't been able to put my finger on why that is.

Maybe, but if bens going to call out our votes seems off to leave gamma alone.

Gamma is conftown in my book. And Vitamin looked protwn on pg 27.

so confirmed town don't need to back up votes like the rest of us? Hot damn... That is a nice perk. Bet they also get their own parking spaces.

[Fate]

Nautilius is TOWN by the way.

TOWN

No way. See in my book. One of you and Nautilus is scum.

ANd I got you as town right now.

You're wrong.
I'm the scum.

Now let me BUS MOI LIKE I ALWAYS DO D2/D3

I ALWAYS BUS

NOW FOLLOW METO VICTORY BENMAGE

[VitaminR]

Oh right, Ban! I had some things to say.

Ok I choose to take it... now it's mine and you're left with nothing... So... not what are you going to do? Huh? That's right...

I kinda enjoyed this.

No I'm fine with you getting a town read on him, I'm just not fine with you ignoring him for the rest of the day. 'hey see that guy over there everyone is arguing about killing or not killing? yeah I'm just going to ignore him even though I have a fairly firm stance on him...' Doesn't really strike me as the proper attitude.

Even setting aside that I'm not the most active poster, what was I going to say? My gut feeling is that silavor is town? And I don't really know him well enough to have been super-sure of that read. Also, it looked for a while like we'd get a Magna lynch, so I wasn't too worried about it. The silavor hammer happened kinda quickly.

Well up until now I would argue you didn't even post your conclusions. Literally all you said was /agree with fate. that isn't a conclusion, that's nothing.

I could definitely have posted more. I find large games more difficult. There's an overwhelming number of players to read and I usually take some time before I post. So, by the time I make up my mind about something, a few more pages have usually passed.

But I have not only said that I agree with Fate. I only said that twice, about the Invictus plan and MoI. The Invictus plan is a good one and MoI is scum. Soooooo.

Alright, I'll outline my thinking. I read up on MoI because I wanted to know if the sort of unreasonable arrogance in his posts was sincere, since the only thing I knew about him was that he was supposed to be a good player. Reading up on MoI, he seems a really reasonable player when he's town and unreasonably confident as scum. His play here seems to lack the nuance of his town game. This was my impression based on just reading the ISOs of the games I linked and a few more. That's what I meant when I referred to his shtick. Fate said a similar thing.

I'm willing to buy that. Are you saying you did the ISO before or after your post 344?

ISO was before. I thought the unreasonable arrogance was scummy, so I went to look at his games. I came away with the impression that his town game is much more nuanced and, well, pleasant and posted 344.

Oh yeah, rub that in my face... 'Hey ban I was at goofbash! I shook the president's hand. I sleep with super models.' You know what, screw you... >.> I do alright for myself... and I've shaken people who look like the president's hands... so... Stop being a jerk when you talk in my head...

Heh. Didn't really mean it that way. Was just trying to explain why my interaction with Fate might feel off in some sense.

Now Ban, what do you think of MoI? Do you think his case against me was reasonable? What do you think of his vote today?

[Gammagooey]

So here's dem reads.

Ban is my strongest town read- Pretty much all of his iso has a town feel and thought process, his isos 5 and 6 about SpyreX and his thoughts at the start of day 2 are especially good.

Benmage is a fairly strong town read but there isn't a whole lot behind it- It's a lot of gut and a bit of him putting a whole lot of effort into the game, and a similar general town tone similar to Ban's.

DGB is also a fairly town read, her stuff about Illuminati looks like legitimate scumhunting and her bit about lying about invictus claiming and SpyreX looked town.

Duplicity I wanted to read over more but he's a gut town read.

Fate is town if MoI is. He's absolutely too hard for this to be scum pushing on town and risk it blowing up in his face near endgame. If MoI isn't town then it could definitely be a bus and he's actually fairly likely scum from his invictus plan (because Fate-scum has infinite motivation to prevent being a random vig) and his d1 play was particularly bad (the worrying about being invictus'd by Spy in particular, but basically nothing from d1 was good).
HAVING SAID THAT he's more likely town than my other scum reads, even if MoI is scum.

Gut is meh and has about a 50/50 shot of being a Pooky alt, but his isos 10 about invictus and 14 and 15 about what he does as scum are both more likely to come from town than scum.

MoI isn't a terrible lynch but I'm still having a lot of trouble getting past how stupid of a gambit not claiming would be when 9/10 times someone pulls that they just get murdered for not claiming. And I do like his reasonings for Ben and DGB town even though the Zach-town read reasons don't apply at all.

Naut is a weak town read just because I have trouble seeing them as scum go- "Hey you know this ridiculous reasoning for why we were on a town lynch? Let's share it with everyone instead of just saying that it was RVS shenanigans!" I don't see anything else pointing to them-town though.

Tar is a fairly strong scumread- pushed MoI only after a drawn-out oooohhhhh maaaaannn I guess these Quil read reasons are bad but I want to look like I'm having trouble accepting it and still suspect him spiel. His reaction to Spy dying also looked overblown like several other players have already stated.

Illuminati WASN'T a strong read one way or the other but him being scum is really the only reason I can think of for DGB surviving the night. (well she could be scum but I really don't think that's the case) DGB's case on him is pretty decent too.

Vitamin is a gutscum read and is doing a lot of sheeping but I wouldn't be absolutely surprised if he was town.

Zach is a very strong scum read- Why he's stronger than the other scum reads is mostly gut but I don't think his first few posts regarding Spy were genuine- unvoting with your first post of the game is a reaaally silly reason for suspecting someone and clarifying that "oh I don't think you're scum for this reason just that one" is something I do as scum all the time, and much more relevant than that is his "annoyance" vote on MoI instead of thinking that MoI was scum, as well as his leaving it on there for a while after MoI's pseudo-claim despite that, staying on the Gut wagon for a bit when it was very clear he wasn't going to be lynched yesterday, and eventual vote on silavor with the note that he'd also lynch 2 other people even though it was very clear they weren't getting lynched, but not making a big deal out of why he thought either of Gut/Baby was scum and why other people should vote them, just stating that he thought Gut's earlier posts were basically a scum-claim.

I've been uber-ninja'd but here ya go, give me a minute to read everything.

[Gammagooey]

Oh and I think Zach's general reactions to votes on him have been more similar to worried scum than town and trying to paint those votes as bad but that isn't a very large reason for the read compared to his actions around the MoI/sila wagons, just gut that adds upon what I already think.

[VitaminR]

I like the above from Gamma. Particularly the Ban, Benmage, Duplicity, and Nautilius pieces are similar to my own thinking.