Mafia Invictus ~ Game Over!

[DrippingGoofball]

Gur has entered claim stall territory.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well in their defense people haven't actually said they'd hammer and asked for a claim ...

Yeah I know it is a Formality but I like to stand by them ... I'm old-fashioned like that.

[VitaminR]

Reeeally prefer a MoI lynch. I feel iffy about this Gut wagon.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Reeeally prefer a MoI lynch. I feel iffy about this Gut wagon.

Hey you know what would be great ... actually providing all that "Why these games make MoI scum" meta evidence you've asserted you had but never actually provided. The 'Its a Large Game so I don't provide reasoning' doesn't really cut it.

You've got time ...

[Gut]

My question to Gut – is this the first time you’ve ever seen “woo bandwagon” result in a lynch? Because having an established “meta-policy” of doing it I find it hard to believe to believe you’ve never seen a bad quick-lynch happen before.

The only thing I can come up with off the top of my head that comes close is a D2 quicklynch perpetrated by aaaah400 (who was banned for cheating). I come from a slower era in that respect.

Tar vote out of the blue while Invictusing Silavor. Note no interaction with Tar or even suggestions that Tar ‘feels’ off.

Because the implication is incredibly obvious?

Sheeping Fate Day 1 supposedly undermined your “meta-policy” when Spyrex flipped Town.

Now suddenly Day 2 you are willing sheep him immediately again despite my name not having appeared anywhere in your ISO before this post (and having ostensibly ‘suspicion’ of Tarh, Zach and Silavor).

The Day 1 quicklynch was obviously unfortunate, but it was fairly unlikely to happen again. That's a silly reason not to vote you. You can't really think my playstyle would change overnight.

And yes, I voted for you over Tar (was I still suspicious of Tar at that point? not sure) and Zach because voting for Tar or Zach would be wasteful. I still maintain that Silavor made more sense as Invictuslynch; there was a broad consensus he should die; we could've agreed on him quickly and moved on to serious matters like lynching you - as is, Baby Spice got invicted on 6 votes.

This is in response to my questioning his ‘Zach is scum’ statements.

The “I bus as scum” is useless WIFOMing …

"I bus as scum." is me pointing out the laziness of your logic.

Also – what happened to Tar?

His Tar over Mafia speculation seemed genuine (also: self-centered).

The coming alive when under fire and trying to use a Meta-shield is just the cherry on top.

When people attack me for playing normally, hell yes, I invoke meta.

What's the town reasoning for revealing it?

See answer to previous quote.

Explain to me what you believe is the defining differences in your scum and town games

Defining difference? I guess it's that I try to play somewhat more conventionally as scum, a bit safer, e.g. in Oldy Mafia I pushed for Shanba in part because I felt it looked like Glrok was bussing him and I got flack for that; I don't see myself making that argument as scum very quickly - I'd just push Glrok first. Keeping my identity to myself is actually a pretty good example of what I wouldn't do as scum; even if it allows me to make this argument it still puts the spotlight on me, something I don't want if I'm scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Because the implication is incredibly obvious?

Oh, it was obvious? It looks fairly possible to me of Scum buddy plopping down an soft vote on fairly safe partner (Silavor was going to catch flack, you Invictused him) and then moving off to an actual wagon as time went on.

So yeah, given you didn’t bother to do anything else (like, you know, actually question Tar) doesn’t look good, IMO.

"I bus as scum." is me pointing out the laziness of your logic.

Really?

1. Have a read on Zach as Town.
2. Scum-read Gut comes in and throws down “I think he’s scum” posts on Zach.
3. Town Read on Zach is strengthened.

You can call that lazyiness of logic. It’s not but at least I’m providing more than

“Gut is scum, gut”.

When people attack me for playing normally, hell yes, I invoke meta.

Really? Because I’m not seeing Town CES (ala Return to Liten) at all. There you at least provided a minimum of reasoning as you posted votes. And provided insight as to ongoing events in the game.

Here it’s just “Its Gut” and fluff until today when you began fighting for your life.

[Gut]

Oh, it was obvious? It looks fairly possible to me of Scum buddy plopping down an soft vote on fairly safe partner (Silavor was going to catch flack, you Invictused him) and then moving off to an actual wagon as time went on.

So yeah, given you didn’t bother to do anything else (like, you know, actually question Tar) doesn’t look good, IMO.

I'm noting your inability to concede the point. It was obvious my vote indicated suspicion. Your complaint that I didn't indicate it explicitly is meritless. I lost interest in Tar. Really, my push against Tar was far too weak to have been a deliberate attempt at anything; it transparently doesn't work as distancing (for one, I probably would've said something along the lines of "I think Tar is scum" if that had been my goal).

1. Have a read on Zach as Town.
2. Scum-read Gut comes in and throws down “I think he’s scum” posts on Zach.
3. Town Read on Zach is strengthened.

I.e. no analysis, but simplistic "scum attack town" thinking.

Really? Because I’m not seeing Town CES (ala Return to Liten) at all. There you at least provided a minimum of reasoning as you posted votes. And provided insight as to ongoing events in the game.

Here it’s just “Its Gut” and fluff until today when you began fighting for your life.

You've called me useless before. Don't back down now. Fate and VitaminR should both be able to verify that I'm not playing weirdly.

P.S. I had a very similar activity surge in Liten when faced with a bandwagon. You can't spin this one as scummy.

[Fate]

WERE NOT LYNCHING GU TODAY

WERE LYNCHING MOI

HOLT

FUCK

WHAT

THE

F
UCK

[Duplicity]

Hey guys I'm really, really sorry for not posting about this earlier but the last few days have been absolutely crazy. Anyway, I haven't had internet the past week or so unexpectedly. I'm V/LA in California but I didn't think it would affect my activity that much because this is my only game. Obviously, I underestimated the activity of 7 people in a three room apartment. Anyway, I now have semiregular access through my phone and through an old computer. I haven't read anything since I last posted except for the flips. Hopefully in 2-3 days I can be posting normally again.

-Shift

P.S. Sorry if I misspelled anything, my phone is terrible.

[Fate]

Duplicity IS scum by the way.

Scum are all in a REAL GOOD position.

And what are they doing? NOT BUSSING MOI.

They are fucking getting mislynch after mislynch.

And you DUMBFUCK townclowns are just going along with it.

I mean HOLY FUCK what is this Gut wagon about?

[Fate]

Yarr. He claimed Cult in #809.75.

INVOKE META SHIELD:
<-- CES/chamber hydra

Vote: MoI

Invictus: Zach

P.S. I didn't follow the Invictusplan either.

This guy is town as fuck

[Fate]

INVOKE META SHIELD:
<-- CES/chamber hydra

No.

UNVOTE: Gammagooey
VOTE: Gut

This guy is scum as fuck

[Fate]

MoI & Gut are each at L-2.

Which is uber-karmic-cool since Gut put MoI at L-2.

Deja FUCKING VU.

We are NOT lynching town over MoI AGAIN.

NOT.

DGB, please, PLEASE, PLEASE

vote MoI with me.

please.


PLease.

DGB.

Please.

Please.

We're invicting Illuuminati

PLease

[Fate]

Hey folks, there are people going all "invictus" on me and frankly, I'd like to know why. If are in fact treating Invictus like a second lynch, I'd like some reasoning besides DGB's "scumputer" so at least have something to refute.

MoI is almost painfully town. DGB is also town.
The sooner we lynch Gut, the better, in my opinion.
Fate is painful.

~Seraphim

Youre fucking scum refusing to bus, thats why, and you're mislynching Gut.

So fucking die

[Nautilius]

(Fate, you're still invictus voting Gamma. I think.)

[Gammagooey]

And to think you were bitching so hard about my Zach vote.
DGB I'm not third-party, I just want the people who say they suspect me to have the balls to try and get me lynched instead of saying that they want me dead enough for someone else to kill me but not enough to put in the effort to get me lynched. Mostly because trying to get me lynched would mean they'd have to put out decent arguments for why I'm scum as well as put a nice big target on their back after my flip if they actually do get me lynched.

MoI, what do you think of the possibility that all of KK's list was town and scum just wanted to make sure that a town died from his invictus?

I think there was something else I wanted to say but I forgot it, I'll post it when I remember.

[DrippingGoofball]

Please.

Please.

We're invicting Illuuminati

PLease

Oh krap

You know how much that would please me

Only thing is, I have no faith that he will actually be the invictus target.

[Fate]

(Fate, you're still invictus voting Gamma. I think.)

Well its on Illuminati I dont have time for invictus counts or ANY of that shit when we're one derphammer away from lynching town and letting MoI live, AGAIN

[Fate]

Please.

Please.

We're invicting Illuuminati

PLease

Oh krap

You know how much that would please me

Only thing is, I have no faith that he will actually be the invictus target.

I promise you I will do whatever I can, all we need to die is get the Gamma wagon onto him. I can do it.

Please, campaign promises.

Fate 2011.

Lynch MoI for my inaguration.

Dgb pleaaaaaaaaseeeeeeeee

[The Illuminati]

Fate, have you ever read me correctly in a single game we've played together?

~Seraphim

[Fate]

Lol appeal to meta, scum ALWAYS use that against me.

Its getting really fuckin sad

[DrippingGoofball]

Don't invictus me, lynch me

Sounds like an alternate wincon.

[DrippingGoofball]

I promise you I will do whatever I can, all we need to die is get the Gamma wagon onto him. I can do it.

I'd read the manifesto.

[Tarhalindur]

Fate and Gamma are still town as fuck, I don't understand their paranoia of each other at all though it's probably due to some previous incident. That said both of them need to keep the bickering out of this fucking thread, the "You're annoying me so I want to replace out!" was a bitch to read through, it really was and it's just letting mafia have a place to hide.

Getting strong town vibes from Post #674 by Benmage however it's lacking mention of which votes he believes are opportunistic or bussing scum and which are misdirected town which is something I want him to go into in his next few posts. I'm starting to see where Shifts town-read on Ban is coming from, his tone and attitude in his posts today scream town however his push towards VitamiR someone unlikely to be lynched or considered to be lynched today reads as slightly odd. I have a gut town read on VitamiR which reading back I cannot work out what it was caused by but his tone in his argument with Ban reads as town on town.

I honestly haven't seen much of Nautiulus during my read through so I'll make time tommorow to read through their posts however at the moment they're hovering between weak town, null and weak scum. Tarhalindurs invicitus vote on Gamma and refusal to elaborate into why he believes that Quilfords slot is scum despite overwhelming evidence of Quilford being town shoots up red flags everywhere and I'll make sure to allocate time to read into him as well.

Tldr:

Town:

Fate, Gamma, Ban, Benmage, VitamR, MoI

Null:

DGB, Nautiullus, Zach

Scum:

Tarh, The Illu, Gut.

This post is a scumclaim.

Let's break it down, folks.

Fate and Gamma are still town as fuck, I don't understand their paranoia of each other at all though it's probably due to some previous incident. That said both of them need to keep the bickering out of this fucking thread, the "You're annoying me so I want to replace out!" was a bitch to read through, it really was and it's just letting mafia have a place to hide.

So, reading a fight as town-on-town isn't a scumtell. Putting Gamma instead of MoI (the person who actually did request replacement), however...

Also, that reminds me: DGB, Fate/MoI is reminding me strongly of you/TSQ in Medieval. Your thoughts on the subject, please?

Getting strong town vibes from Post #674 by Benmage however it's lacking mention of which votes he believes are opportunistic or bussing scum and which are misdirected town which is something I want him to go into in his next few posts.

Town vibes with caveats? Yeah no. That's scumbuddy interaction, right there. CLASSIC scumbuddy interaction. Why ask for the kind of clarification that is indicative of suspicion on a player he claims to get strong town vibes from? Because he's trying to make a buddy look good while simultaneously distancing himself. In other words, he's keeping his options open.

I've SEEN this before. Random Mafia 3. Nailed two scumbags for it there, and I'm pretty sure I've done the same here.

I'm starting to see where Shifts town-read on Ban is coming from, his tone and attitude in his posts today scream town however his push towards VitamiR someone unlikely to be lynched or considered to be lynched today reads as slightly odd.

See the wishy-washy here? Once again, it's town read plus caveats.

Also note the attempt to portray a VitR lynch as impossible.

Note to self: MoI might be town after all.

Tarhalindurs invicitus vote on Gamma and refusal to elaborate into why he believes that Quilfords slot is scum despite overwhelming evidence of Quilford being town shoots up red flags everywhere and I'll make sure to allocate time to read into him as well.

Really now? "Overwhelming evidence"? All I've seen is a belief that Quilford/Gamma can't be scum because Kublai Khan was threatening him with Invictus (which I find unpersuasive, since there are several roles scum could have (bulletproof, doctor, possibly Tarhalindur over Mafia) that could have given scum enough confidence to go after KK. In fact, I find that argument the OPPOSITE of persuasive, since KK (a strong player) suspecting Quilford would explain why scum went for Quilford over, say, DGB or Fate N1.

The rest of this supposed "overwhelming evidence of Quilford being town" is a bunch of players just saying that Quilford's slot is town with no other reason provided - and I don't think it's a coincidence that I'm pretty sure at least half of them are scum. I'm of the strong belief that the "Quilford must be town" meme was manufactured by scum - and specifically YOU - D2 and has been bought hook, line, and sinker by an unsuspecting town.

There ARE, however, two good reasons to think that Quilford's slot is scum. The first is that Quilford asked for a mass Invictus claim in such a godawful manner D2. The second is that I noticed it, called him scum based off it, then backed off over a reasonable-looking explanation... then I noticed it when rereading and remembered that I do that to a player EVERY DAMN GAME and that player ALWAYS flips scum. ALWAYS.

There's also another good point against YOU here - that "shoots up red flags everywhere"? CLASSIC scum rhetorical trick.

---

whaaaat Tar if I'm really secretly YOU then I should obviously be lynched instead of waiting around and letting me have any more night actions. Don't go saying craazy stuff like that if you're not gonna have the balls to follow through on it.

If it wasn't for that nice juicy MoI wagon I'd be voting you right now. As it is, I'm using that Invictus vote as a HoS.

Though really, right now as long as one of {Gamma, Benmage, Duplicity, MoI} is lynched today I don't particularly care which one. You're all scum.

Also, you know what? I'm going to turn this around on you. You're one of several players who has been yamming for a while about me looking scummy but not doing anything.

I'm calling your bluff. Put up or shut up. And by put up I mean vote, since you absolutely should not be Invictusing me.

---

At emphasized: Oh really now?

- Benmage was really, really scum even before he made that post I quoted above.

-U dont see it?

-Do explain.

- No, I think that the reason that you know the scum is because you were told their names in your role PM.
- I was rereading the thread and noticed you standing off to the side for basically the entire thread. That's a really good place to find scum these days. Not to mention that you're one of the lead proponents of the "KK was going to Invictus Quilford so Quilford's slot must be town", which is still BS and scum-driven logic.

- BabySpice dying removes a LOT of my objections to using Invictus as second lynch. I'll support today.

I thought your objections were mod related.....

I also expected a strong player to die tonight from Invictus instead of Baby Spice. This did not happen. That removes a lot of my objections - if scum have a punisher, they aren't using it yet. The remaining reasons ARE the mod-related ones.

Hmm.
Hey Tar I'm assuming you voting for an invictus-double-lynch means you think that there isn't any invictus manipulation correct?

No, it means that scum aren't using their invictus manipulation right now. Nice attempt to lock in "nothing can go wrong with Invictus double-lynch" there.

There is a considerable lack of a read on me in Tar's latest post

I thought my "would die for Fate, he's obviously town" read was fairly obvious.

---

I'm interested in seeing how tar is going to pull his pants back up, but alas that'll wait for tomorrow.

See, if your team is smart I won't even be alive tomorrow. You're not getting a mislynch on me.

---

The current Gut wagon is bad and you should feel bad. Except a bunch of players don't, because they're scum and counterwagoning MoI.

Seriously. Gamma, MoI, Benmage, Duplicity. That's your scumteam.

[Nautilius]

Only Magna, Illum, and Duplic are left in the off Spyspy wagon list. We can burn TWO of them guyz.