Mafia Invictus ~ Game Over!

[Gammagooey]

>:I

[VitaminR]

Did you know he was Gut this whole time, or did you just find out?

I didn't know till CES revealed it. In retrospect, there was one Gut-post that was very CESy, but I had no idea.

No... I can't let you win me over with your charming and beguiling ways. You'll end up hurting me just like last time... For the record, I can understand this. But I'm sure you'll understand when I tell you this isn't exactly something that relieves my suspicions on you.

Fair enough. But come on, be charmed! You won't regret it. I promise that I'm really town.

[Zachrulez]

Well gee, you pressure me into posting, and now you want me to actually think on top of that on my vacation?

What is this?!

(When I get my head into this game more fully after my V/LA is over I might be able to give you some reasoning beyond gut. Assuming that I live that long of course.)

[Zachrulez]

Oh and your reasoning on my position on Magna being scummy I thought you were implying a link given that it's pretty clear I've had other opportunities to push a Magna lynch through and have passed on it.

[Nautilius]

VOTE: ZACHRULEZ

Magna, if you really care that much about looking for scum on the SpyreX wagon, how about this one? Scum gets on Spy's early wagon with a semi-serious chuckle, then takes it to the bank and tries to catch on silavor mislynch the next day, they call him Zachrulez. See him skim, see him skate, but never see him post strong content when it doesn't have to do with defense...

This is also who my heart tells me to murder, and so I murder <3

Sorry Elli.

[Gut]

lots of role speculation at first, I was convinced he was prepping the room for a FLYING PUMPKIN SHOOTING LAZERZ claim. Bodyguard. Bodyguard??? That's IT??????

It occurred to me that this is a pretty nice town tell. The set-up rules combined with Tar's Tar over Mafia speculation actually show Tar must have one of the standard roles off the list and I'd assume one of her scum buddies would bring that to her attention if she were scum. (Doesn't work if Tar's scum though, but I kinda think he's town currently.)

Notice the correlation to a realistic chance of lynch to him suddenly caring.

The prospect of getting mislynched should inspire activity in every townie.

[Nautilius]

Gut, join me.

[Gut]

Unvote, vote: Zachrulez

Primary Invictus: MoI
Secondary Invictus: Illuminati

[Gammagooey]

It seems weird that people only hop on the wagons I'm cheering for after I give up on voting them.

Nautilius and DGB I will trade you a Zach vote for a MoI invictus, good deal yes?
(if Zach is scum then Magna isn't as likely to be scum with him but he for serious needs to die before tomorrow if Zach is town)

[Vi]

Vote Count XIII:

Scumputer vs. Scumputer
MagnaofIllusion (L-3) ~ Fate, VitaminR, Tarhalindur,

Nautilius, Gut,

Gammagooey
Gut (L-4) ~ Zachrulez, The Illuminati, MagnaofIllusion,

DrippingGoofball

Zachrulez (L-4) ~ DrippingGoofball, Nautilius, Gut
Duplicity (L-6) ~ Ban

VitaminR (L-7) ~

Ban

(Minimum L-7)

Not Voting:

Benmage, Duplicity

--Deadline is Tuesday, July 19 at 2100 EST. ((expired on 2011-07-19 21:00:00))

[Fate]

Nautilius, Gut.

A lot of people are calling you scum

I am calling you town.

Get YOUR FUCKINH ASSES BACK ON THE MOI WAGON

OR SO HELP ME

I WILL LYNCH YOUR CHEEKY FUCKING FACES

[Tarhalindur]

Uh, I hate days like yesterday. All set to come home and the big man in charge walks up and says he needs me to stay for another fifteen hours. Apparently replying with "I don't actually work for you, and no consultant works that long" is just met with a "then I'll shoot you and dump your body in the lake." And here's a hint, don't laugh because he'll shoot you and chain you to a desk where you wake up doing calculus problems. Which is weird because the company specialized in using specialized analytical logarithms to maximize efficiency in distribution routes... No idea what they needed the calculus for. Plus, they don't even use desks... where the hell did that thing come from? Do they just keep one in storage for this exact situation?

Anyway, enough of my boring life stories.

Why post this? There's this acronym that I used to use for posts like this... had two capital I's and an A in it... forgot exactly what it was...

This is admittedly a possible explanation for the KK kill. It is NOT, however, the only possible explanation.

I like your thinking but I'm sad to see the idea that was in my head not included on your list. With my own semi-known feelings on gamma aside, shouldn't the fact that Gamma being scum hinges on certain scum power roles being present and that the possibility that he was killed for this reason exists imply that he should be shelved at least until a scum power role is caught?

I mean it's cool to say "The possibility that gamma is scum exists if certain other things exist", but it still seems like lynching him without some suggesting you're right is illogical. I realize you're up for lynching anyone of your four which is cool, I only say this because you mentioned you would be voting him if not for MOI and that seems like wasted focus to me.

Anyway, not all that important... just thought I would weigh in on past conversations that are probably over and don't need my input.

Uh, NO.

First and foremost, if Gamma has bulletproof shields then he'd just skate through endgame if we used this logic, because we would NEVER find the relevant scum power role before he dies. Second, the same thing applies if we can't find a scum doc before LyLo.

So, no, I WON'T be waiting for scum power flips before looking for a Gamma lynch. And if a little birdie hadn't told me you're a Korlash alt (or if I didn't remember you being rather poor at logic sometimes) I'd add you directly into the "willing to lynch" pile for this. As it is, my town read on you is merely severely rattled.

(Note to town scouters: If you exist and haven't scouted Gamma yet, you should probably do that tonight.

Note to everyone else: Scum probably have a Scouter regardless of town having one, and scum could just have a doc instead of bulletproof shields, so don't clear Gamma tomorrow if somebody claims Scouter with a no-shields result on Gamma.)

Your point about there being a potential scum doctor, bulletproof or alternate power preventing an Invicitus occuring makes no sense when it comes to your read on Quilford. A failed invictus vote and no invictus death would leads towards it being abundantly obvious that something prevented the invicidus kill going through which again throws attention and suspicion onto Quilford. There legitimately is no scum motivation for Quilford to shoot at KK at all as it would lead to a likely 1 for 1 trade which is something mafia would avoid at all costs.

See, you're looking at it in retrospect. Night one, scum couldn't have known that there was only going to be one kill, they also couldn't have known that invictus's would be so easy to tell apart from other kills. I literally went into night expecting 5 or 6 deaths. A missing invictus would be easy to cover up, and with so many possibilities like KK changed it, or a town doc stopped it, or even if a bodyguard died it could be argued that one protected Quill. furthermore, the age old "i'm bulletproof" wouldn't suggest anything. In fact, if gamma was bulletproof then the scum could have planned on that to make him look town. I.e. Scum kill KK, knowing quill won't die, dawn arrives and they argue that scum wouldn't have killed KK therefore quill is town. Instant scum='confo' town status. Definitely worth wasting a BP shot in my opinion. And this isn't even factoring in my own ideas on the matter.

I know lynching gamma is currently illogical, but in the event he does flip scum I could certainly see you as his partner here.

How can you be so logical here and yet screw up your logic so much up above?

Oh fuck me... Hindu bodgy guarded quil... its so simple... I keep neglecting bodyguard stops invictus kills.

Fyi a scum doc wouldn't.

A scum doc wouldn't what? What do you know that I don't?

THIS. (The implied context is "wouldn't stop an invictus kill", but that's not consistent with first page info.)

Note to self: Benmage/Duplicity interactions read VERY STRONGLY scumbuddy at this point.

Note to self, look into Ben more. Would you think this still holds true even if Gamma ends up town?

Yes (mainly because I could see Ben/Duplicity white knighting), especially if MoI flips scum sometime.

Bullshit. If Quilford is bulletproof and planning on trueclaiming that ability, he can just claim that when asked to claim and answer questions about why he's alive. Likewise, a stopped Invictus on a non-bulletproof Quilford could have been explained by a player protecting him (which, as a matter of fact, is what appears to have happened), with the only risk being when targets are claimed at massclaim.

In fact, if I were scum who knew that KK had stated an invictus on a scum who I knew would be protected, I'd happily kill KK so I could falseclear my buddy with the WIFOM logic "scum would never risk killing a player who they knew was targeting a townie, so buddy X is effectively confirmed town".

Wait, why does that logic sound suspiciously familiar? It's almost like a few players have been using that exact train of logic in the thread for a while...

Do you have an opening for an adoring fan? DGB keeps me pretty busy but I'm fairly certain I could spare a few moments for you if needed.

If it means I actually get a shot at convincing other players to ignore the stupid Gut wagon and DGB's latest harebrained schemes, hell yes. (Though I'll still have to check for signs of you being scum - nothing personal, just gotta be sure after some of those quotes up there.)

Tar a chain reaction kill meant invictus went through.... so there was no quil doc or quil bpv.

How do you know? Scum can't plan on a town Body Guard 'interfering'. Body Guard happens fist, so there is no reason there couldn't have also been some scum plan in the works.

Also I really hate being late to this party... *shakes head* I am not liking this recurring theme from Ben 'knowing' stuff.

THIS. SO MUCH THIS.

I don't actually trust Tar's spread sheet. Most of it seems spot on, but it put Gamma in Fate's group instead of in Dup's where he belongs. It's a small hiccup but ultimately leads me to doubt it's authenticity. Then again, I'm an idiot so what do I know right.

Apparently I was suffering from the same syndrome that affects so many of my damn vote counts when moderating. I'll post an updated sheet later.

VOTE: ZACHRULEZ

Magna, if you really care that much about looking for scum on the SpyreX wagon, how about this one? Scum gets on Spy's early wagon with a semi-serious chuckle, then takes it to the bank and tries to catch on silavor mislynch the next day, they call him Zachrulez. See him skim, see him skate, but never see him post strong content when it doesn't have to do with defense...

This is also who my heart tells me to murder, and so I murder <3

Sorry Elli.

Yeah no. I'm strongly considering tossing YOU into the "would lynch today" pile, though.

I mean, seriously, take a look at this post from Zach D2:

Zach is a very strong scum read- Why he's stronger than the other scum reads is mostly gut but I don't think his first few posts regarding Spy were genuine- unvoting with your first post of the game is a reaaally silly reason for suspecting someone and clarifying that "oh I don't think you're scum for this reason just that one" is something I do as scum all the time, and much more relevant than that is his "annoyance" vote on MoI instead of thinking that MoI was scum, as well as his leaving it on there for a while after MoI's pseudo-claim despite that, staying on the Gut wagon for a bit when it was very clear he wasn't going to be lynched yesterday, and eventual vote on silavor with the note that he'd also lynch 2 other people even though it was very clear they weren't getting lynched, but not making a big deal out of why he thought either of Gut/Baby was scum and why other people should vote them, just stating that he thought Gut's earlier posts were basically a scum-claim.

I've actually used that I don't think you're scum for that reason just this one as scum before, and I've busted another scum on that reasoning. Both situations happend much deeper into each game though, this was a very very early game point. I thought the action was interesting enough to go after that early on, but I wasn't interested in actually lynching Spyrex over it at that point. (I actually wasn't even online when that lynch actually happened.)

I did generally find refusal to claim scummy, and annoyance made voting even easier, then gut claimed scum, so yeah. Aside from that, MOI really hasn't done anything to really make me think he's scum, and on further reflection I didn't find that actual action scummy either. So sue me, my read changed.

As for staying on the gut wagon. You're really going to accuse me of any of that, while I'm V/LA? Really? I only moved my vote when I did because that was literally the only window I had for access and I did have to pick a major wagon precisely for what you're attacking me for, being on a wagon that wasn't going anywhere to deadline.

On that subject, if you don't think the point I made on Gut is worth lynching him for, you're either scum or not paying attention... either way...

And ooooooooooooooooh, I didn't make cases, that's uber strong scum read? Guess what Gamma, I don't make cases, and this comes down to why I think you're generally full of shit. I've spent plenty of time in my earlier days playing this

making cases

and pretty much the same thing comes out of it as when you just take a position that you find someone scummy for a single strong point. If people aren't interested, they aren't going to read it, and so either way, meh.

But you're really going to tell me that I'm scummy because I didn't push harder even though I would have been willing to lynch Baby and Gut if wagons were there? Really? I suppose you really didn't want to give me a chance to do that anyway because not even right after I did you popped your vote right on the wagon and pushed Fate to hammer it, this with enough time to inquire to me as to why I WANTED those lynches, but wait. You chose not to do that.

Yeah, so you could make this big

damning looking case

on me today with your super duper scum read. Yeah right.

Gut/VitaminR/Gamma

Take that to the bank.

Oh my, I wrote a wall without even realizing it.

Seriously guys, take a look at that post. Zach's town as shit. Misguided, but still town as shit.

Besides, if MoI's scum then Zach is almost certainly town, so...

Invictus wagon now uses 2 votes. If the first target is dead then you get moved to the second one in the final votecount. It'll make it so we don't have to deal with all this bullshit tomorrow if one of Gut/MoI gets lynched, flips town, and the other would normally be tomorrow's lynch since nobody wants to invictus the people they're voting right now.

so this is only if you're invictusing gut/Moi... alright...

Invictus: Moi, Sub-Invictus: Dup

I agree with your "dead Moi means less distractions tomorrow" even if I don't actually think he's likely scum. Dup goes both ways between my scum group combos so he's the obvious backup.

Unvote:, Vote: Duplicity

I'd still hammer MOI over gut if it came to it but given how the game inevitably plays out I'm sure someone else will do it long before I need to bastardize my own beliefs.

I'd rather have a MoI lynch, but if we can't get that a Duplicity lynch is the next best thing. Let's see where this goes - I can hop back on MoI once the votes head back towards him.

Unvote, Vote: Duplicity

Invictus: MoI, Invictus: Benmage

---

Gamma does raise one good point: Tomorrow could be LyLo. Also, I probably won't be alive then. Massclaim?

[Tarhalindur]

Nautilius, Gut.

A lot of people are calling you scum

I am calling you town.

Get YOUR FUCKINH ASSES BACK ON THE MOI WAGON

OR SO HELP ME

I WILL LYNCH YOUR CHEEKY FUCKING FACES

Compromise Duplicity lynch with a lock on MoI Invictus work for you?

[Gammagooey]

Invictus votecount:
Illuminati(3): Nautilius, VitaminR, Fate
MoI(4): Ban, Gamma, Gut, Tarhalindur
Nautilius(3): Illuminati, Benmage, Zachrulez

Invictus votecount if MoI is lynched
Illuminati(5): Nautilius, VitaminR, Fate, Gut, Gamma
Duplicity(1): Ban
Nautilius(3): Illuminati, Benmage, Zach
Benmage(1): Tarhalindur

error fixed+Gut's and Tar's votes added.

[Fate]

Only.... only for you tar.... would I even consider this. We had, have, MoI at l-1. THIS IS THE SAME SHIT AS HYDRAS. WE HAVE SCUMA T LONE WE HAVE SCUMAT L ONE

WE

HAVE

SCUM

AT

L

MINUS

ONE.

Thi is the dumbest shit ever. Now with the multinvictus plan they'll just kill someone who won't invict MoI and COOLLOOKWHOS ALIVE TOOMORROW AS A FUCKIN DISTRACTION.

WHAT THE FUCK IS THE CASE ON ZACH?

DGB SAID HE WAS SCUM IN FANCY COLORS?

MOI IS

FUCKING SCUM

MOI IS

FUCKING SCUM

MOI IS

FUCKING SCUM

MOI IS

FUCKING SCUM

[Ban]

Why post this? There's this acronym that I used to use for posts like this... had two capital I's and an A in it... forgot exactly what it was...

Holy shit, you're right! crap, how did I not think saying all that would alert the IIA! Man, this isn't like screwing over the CIA or the, and I'm laughing when I say this, FBI... Those are cupcake brigades compared to this branch. Man, glad you have my back Tar. I'll make sure to sleep with three eyes open. Not mine of course... >.> <.<

Let's skip the rambling part...

How can you be so logical here and yet screw up your logic so much up above?

Because unlike you I'm not blinded by my emotions involving Gamma. I don't mean anything by it, but it seems obvious to me. You already said you would lynch your suspects in any order, so why would you be against leaving gamma for later in order to account for the possibility he is town? If you are right, then lynching the others will still net scum. And with them outed, you could more easily convince the rest of the people who do in fact think he is town.

Just a question, how do you expect to lynch a person generally called town by over half the town without something to back it up? When you think about it, you may not like my logic, but it isn't bad.

If it means I actually get a shot at convincing other players to ignore the stupid Gut wagon and DGB's latest harebrained schemes, hell yes. (Though I'll still have to check for signs of you being scum - nothing personal, just gotta be sure after some of those quotes up there.)

If you think I'm related to Korlash and you don't have funny feelings about me then you would be even more insane them him. So no hard feelings you awesome person you. *claps, cheers, does the wave, etc...* This might be a bad time to mention it but I charge $17.50 an hour...

[Nautilius]

PRIMARY Invictus: MagnaofIllusion
SECONDARY Invictus: Zachrulez

[Fate]

THAT'S,

NOT,

A.


MOI

VOTE.

[Nautilius]

But wait, there's more:

Because scumvor is so stupid he would go out of his way to draw attention to himself by hammering.

Right. Ok then. You keep thinking that.

WIFOM

Why did you hammer?

This is everything that Zach has provided on his case for silavor. A silavor-town making a stupid hammer like that would be prey for at least one opportunistic scum cashing in on stupidity, and Zach treating this like it is obviously the correct lynch is what I would expect from scum. Notice how there is no effort to explain scum benefit behind the hammer, just a parked vote. Also similar to how MoI handled things, except it's an even juicier action coming from MoI, considering how he was protesting against having another stupid, thoughtless lynch like SpyreX's twice in a row.

Going for the easy mislynch continues with the Baby Spice Invictus vote. Explanation is that she hasn't poste a lot, and that's it. When she does post more, he ignores her and keeps the vote, and later adds on "piss poor meta case" for reasoning, which is shit an is lazy Zach scum giving just enough reasoning to justify an opportunistic vote.

His MoI vote is wonderful for analysis when it seemed like MoI was definitely going to get lynched; he puts Magna at L-1, no reasoning. This later allowed him to back off the Magna vote later when scumMoI squirmed for longer than expected with "oh, I was just voting him out of annoyance". This is scumZach not wanting to be caught off the wagon, but definitely being reluctant to lynch his scumbuddy.

Also not finding why Tar can even call Zach's big defense post good because everytime I read that hunk of crap all I hear is voices in my head screaming "ZACHISSCUMZACHISSCUMZACHISSCUM".

His defense for being on the SpyreX lynch was crap. He basically acknowledges Gamma has a legitimate point, and then says it was too early game to matter (nevermind that Zach does the same damn thing in his ISO #25). The rest of the defense, "I wasn't online", is unverifiable either way, and thus really doesn't tell us much.

His defense for the MoI vote is backtracking; even though he initially said that the vote was annoyance, he now adds that he generally finds that action scummy. However, he also adds that MoI never did anything scummy and the way MoI did it wasn't scummy anyways? This seems like a contradiction that comes from scumZach trying to defend his vote on his scumbuddy without incriminating his scumbuddy. When town votes because they find an action scummy, they say so. There is not all this backtracking crap of "Well, the action is normally scummy and I was annoyed, so I voted. This doesn't mean that I actually ever found him scummy, or that he is scummy."

He then goes on to defend his Gut read, which apparently is

so good

that anyone who disagrees with it is "scum or not paying attention". This is crap and bullshit, considering all he said on gut is "^scum claim, lynch at will".

His conclusion about Gamma's "big, damning looking" case shows that Zach is intimidated by the size of the case on it, and is pretty damn scummy considering the thing isn't that long in the first place.

OH LOOK I ACCIDENTALLY WROTE A WALL GUESS IM TOWN, EH TAR?
HEHEHEHEHEHE

[Nautilius]

THAT'S,

NOT,

A.


MOI

VOTE.

Don't you tell me what to do. Town obviously doesn't have the balls to lynch Magna just yet. So we kill a buddy who won't vote him, INVICTEROUS Magna, and then this game is broken like a Pinata.

DONT YOU LIKE PINATAS?

[Nautilius]

see i posted at 11:11

and i made a wish

that fate would read my post, and vote zach and invict magna
and that we could all fly into the sun and eat popcorn and color in coloring books
and that scum could die and die and die

don't you want to make my wish to come true, SERAPHIM WHO IS BROWSING THE FORUM AND WHO BETTER GET ON ILLUMISCUM AND POST?

there is glory in bussing two partners at once, you know.

[Fate]

My.....

Weak spot...

How did you.....

unvote:
Vote: Zach

Invictus: MoI

[The Illuminati]

Hey, hey man, I have other games besides this one man.

Since Illuminati never got back to me I'll use that question again and ask for a few odd reads or reasonings for things.

Hmmm, what did you want me to do? Sorry, I must have missed it. Also, to the Zachrulez question:

And a Zachrulez wagon would not be out of the question either.

Unvote
Vote: Zachrulez

Also,

Invictus 1: MoI

Invictus 2(if MoI is lynched): Duplicity

[The Illuminati]

~Seraphim

[The Illuminati]

That's L-2 btw.

~Seraphim