Newbie 1138 - Game Over! Town Win!

[whilst]

Does anybody care about anyone else's answers to those four questions? I feel like it was just a stupid survey and I'm never going to read anyone else's answers or think about it again.

I care, I want to know if people have played before. 100% brand new players play much different from people who have a handful of games under their belt.

You're question is absolutely pointless, considering:
A. 7/9 town is NOT mafia.
B. If there were a Night start kill, who would die would most likely be random considering half of us don't know each other.

You're giving off a "let's get down to business, enough with this tomfoolery," attitude, which in my opinion is scummy. I'm not going to be leading a lynch on you or anything as of yet, but I've got my eye on you.

It's not pointless, we're in Day 1. In order to help make an decisions in the following days there needs to be discussion to read back on.

He could've just posted to make you angry. Anyway, if I were mafia, I would have naturally killed one of the IC players. Why would I keep alive the people who were most likely to figure me out? (That's assuming more experience = better player).

[BBmolla]

EBWOP: Lemme rephrase, people saying they'd kill experienced players gives us no info it just shows that they understand the obvious.

[whilst]

EBWOP: Lemme rephrase, people saying they'd kill experienced players gives us no info it just shows that they understand the obvious.

Just looked up that acronym.

Yeah, I agree. Again, it's still a question to be answered.

[Honest Abel]

But your question is pointless because it puts people in the shoes of the mafia, which the mafia are already in, so they have no need to lie.

So you think the mafia would be completely honest and tell us exactly who they would have killed in every situation? Ask the same question on Day 2. Ask it again on Day 3. I can guarantee that both mafia won't be telling the truth about who they killed and why. My question about a hypothetical Night 0 is just a reference point for later.

[Honest Abel]

Maybe this is just me, but when I was mafia in my last game, I found the major fault of the town team is that they didn't force me to lie a single time in the game. I was able to honestly scumhunt like any other townie, which is part of why the IC said at one point that I was "100% town." It wasn't until the final day when it was me and two townies left, that one of the less experienced players finally put a decent question out there: "Who would you have killed Night 3?" It was the first thing in the game that made me remember that I was mafia and it made me sweat just thinking about how to answer it. Should I tell the truth and say I'd kill the guy who I killed? Or should I lie? If I were to lie, I would have had to go back through the ENTIRE game and make sure the person I picked didn't conflict with something I'd said in the past. That's when I realized, or began to hypothesize, that forcing mafia to lie is an awesome tactic. And I was about to go through the entire thread to make sure I could say some lie, when the other townie voted for that guy and I was able to hammer and win. Otherwise, I think such a question would have done me in.

So that's why I'm asking my question. I would appreciate it if you'd answer rather than skirt the issue, BBmolla.

[Honest Abel]

Especially because everyone else was so kind as to answer your random questions.

[Honest Abel]

I care, I want to know if people have played before. 100% brand new players play much different from people who have a handful of games under their belt.

ICs have played at least five games on this site. Something like that. SEs have played at least two. Everyone else in this game is either completely new or has played only one game before. Not to dismiss our games at the townhall, but the caliber of play there isn't anywhere near as competitive or focused as it is here. I still consider myself a complete newb even after having played and modded a bunch of games there. It's a lot different when you're playing with people who are a little more serious about it. That's not entirely credit to mafiascum, though, because games on here can get a little grating.

[whilst]

I was

able to honestly

scumhunt like any other townie

You did this on purpose.

So that's why I'm asking my question. I would appreciate it if you'd answer rather than skirt the issue, BBmolla.

I think you can safely assume he would've picked an IC. The only reason he'd continue to argue with you is if he were mafia and wished to delay further discussion.

[BBmolla]

Maybe this is just me, but when I was mafia in my last game, I found the major fault of the town team is that they didn't force me to lie a single time in the game. I was able to honestly scumhunt like any other townie, which is part of why the IC said at one point that I was "100% town." It wasn't until the final day when it was me and two townies left, that one of the less experienced players finally put a decent question out there: "Who would you have killed Night 3?" It was the first thing in the game that made me remember that I was mafia and it made me sweat just thinking about how to answer it. Should I tell the truth and say I'd kill the guy who I killed? Or should I lie? If I were to lie, I would have had to go back through the ENTIRE game and make sure the person I picked didn't conflict with something I'd said in the past. That's when I realized, or began to hypothesize, that forcing mafia to lie is an awesome tactic. And I was about to go through the entire thread to make sure I could say some lie, when the other townie voted for that guy and I was able to hammer and win. Otherwise, I think such a question would have done me in.

So that's why I'm asking my question. I would appreciate it if you'd answer rather than skirt the issue, BBmolla.

It all depends. The question of "Who would you have killed if it was night start," is dumb because no one died so the answer is by default for everyone the most experienced players.

In your situation, it also depends on who you actually killed and why you did kill them. If it you did it to frame someone of course you're going to lie and say you'd kill someone else. If you did it because it was the most townish player, then obviously you can tell the truth and say the person who died cause they were most townish.

The mafia need to create themselves as a town player and need to create a position where from their point of view, others look like mafia. If you don't have any mafia from your point of view, you're going to get lynched because your point of view makes no sense.

It depends on the player who died and the game being played. However, at this point in the game, nobody died so your question is pointless.

Good enough for you?

[BBmolla]

So that's why I'm asking my question. I would appreciate it if you'd answer rather than skirt the issue, BBmolla.

I think you can safely assume he would've picked an IC. The only reason he'd continue to argue with you is if he were mafia and wished to delay further discussion.

I'm continuing to argue because his logic is flawed and I'm trying to make him see that, not cause I'm scum. To me it isn't the kind of logic town would use so I'm looking into it. I'm not delaying the game, I'm looking into a player who is having behavior that I find untownish. By doing so, I may discover he is actually town, who knows. Ignoring it is not the right move.

[Scumhunter]

1. I have played ~10 games on MafiaScum on this account or hydra account.
2. I used to play a ton at epic mafia and a few times IRL.
3. I don't not believe in magic.
4. I don't believe I have played with anyone in this game before, but I could be mistaken.

vote: BBmolla

Name I recognize the most ^

I hate RVS. Like absolutely despite it. Just saying. Someone else do all the work and generate content and I'll help find the scum later.

[BBmolla]

I hate RVS. Like absolutely despite it. Just saying. Someone else do all the work and generate content and I'll help find the scum later.

I must admit, I'm not a fan of it. It's a tradition though, and I've found that fighting tradition can only end badly.

For now I'll
UNVOTE: Scumhunter

[singersigner]

Vote Count 1.2

cavjj (0):
DarkClaymore (0):
Honest Abel (2): I Am Innocent, Dark Claymore
whilst (0):
dicknose (1): Honest Abel
BBmolla (1): Scumhunter
I Am Innocent (1): cavjj
Scumhunter (0):
Wickedestjr (0):

Not Voting (0): whilst, dicknose, BBmolla, Wickedestjr

Mod Notes:

Deadline is August 17th, 2011 3pm PST.

[Wickedestjr]

I would have explained how to quote players and I would've told everyone to get an avatar, but I see that everyone knows how to quote and everyone has an avatar, so I won't comment on that. If anybody is having problems with quoting or switching/getting an avatar, let me know and I'll try to help.

Responses to Questions

1. I have 24 completed games here at mafiascum.
2. Yes I have played mafia on another site. I played three games at a site called AoPS.
3. No, I don't believe in magic.
4. Nope. I've never played with anybody here. A few of the usernames in this game look familiar, however.

If I was mafia and had a kill night 0, I would have killed I Am Innocent. With nothing else to go on I would've eliminated the most experienced player aside from myself both because it would make things slightly easier for me and because it would be unfair to get rid of one of the newer players before they even had the chance to play at all.

I Am Innocent

Let's skip the stupid discussion about how odds are slim I was chosen to be mafia on both rolls, shall we?

Interesting you would 1) be the one to bring this up when you say you don't want this discussed and 2) phrase it the way you do "how odds are slim"

By 'interesting' do you mean suspicious?

Another instance of a player avoiding to determine his own choice of a vote on another player. Add in the fact that if nobody posts, the game does not progress, so why threaten the next poster?

Why would a townie feel threatened by a random vote?

BBmolla

Why the "truly random" vote?

Cause I don't think we can scumhunt off of an introductory post. Do you?

I understand that we can't scumhunt based off of an introductory post, but why did you choose to make your vote completely random rather than think of a jokey or random reason? Wouldn't scum be more likely to cast a vote that they don't have to take any responsibility for?

I don't like this post at all. The four questions are to get aquainted with people, because how I read people is completely different based on how experienced someone is.

You're question is absolutely pointless, considering:
A. 7/9 town is NOT mafia.
B. If there were a Night start kill, who would die would most likely be random considering half of us don't know each other.

You're giving off a "let's get down to business, enough with this tomfoolery," attitude, which in my opinion is scummy. I'm not going to be leading a lynch on you or anything as of yet, but I've got my eye on you.

If you see nothing else that is more suspicious, then why not vote for Honest Abel? Did you think you would get more use out of your random vote?

Scumhunter

vote: BBmolla

Name I recognize the most ^

I hate RVS. Like absolutely despite it. Just saying. Someone else do all the work and generate content and I'll help find the scum later.

You don't like the RVS and we seem to have a serious discussion going on, so why not comment on or contribute to that discussion? Do you suspect BBmolla or Honest Abel for their questions?

Personally, I don't have any issue with any of the questions asked thus far. In fact, I have my own question to ask everyone. @Everyone- Did you want to be mafia or town this game? Which allignment would you have liked to receive the most?

[Wickedestjr]

Some/Most/All of you are probably wondering how to create those boxes like I did in my last post. It is very simple. You simply use area tags. For example:

[area*]abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz[/area]
...without the aterisk would show up as:

abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz

You'll notice that I also gave each of the boxes in my previous post a title. This is also pretty easy and works the exact same way as quote tags. For example:

[*area="The Alphabet"]abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz[/area]
...without the asterisk would show up as:

The Alphabet

abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz

[BBmolla]

BBmolla

Why the "truly random" vote?

Cause I don't think we can scumhunt off of an introductory post. Do you?

I understand that we can't scumhunt based off of an introductory post, but why did you choose to make your vote completely random rather than think of a jokey or random reason? Wouldn't scum be more likely to cast a vote that they don't have to take any responsibility for?

I don't like this post at all. The four questions are to get aquainted with people, because how I read people is completely different based on how experienced someone is.

You're question is absolutely pointless, considering:
A. 7/9 town is NOT mafia.
B. If there were a Night start kill, who would die would most likely be random considering half of us don't know each other.

You're giving off a "let's get down to business, enough with this tomfoolery," attitude, which in my opinion is scummy. I'm not going to be leading a lynch on you or anything as of yet, but I've got my eye on you.

If you see nothing else that is more suspicious, then why not vote for Honest Abel? Did you think you would get more use out of your random vote?

Personally, I don't have any issue with any of the questions asked thus far. In fact, I have my own question to ask everyone. @Everyone- Did you want to be mafia or town this game? Which allignment would you have liked to receive the most?

I, like scumhunter, think RVS is a lousy tradition. Take note of the "

Random

Voting State."

I haven't voted Abel because I want to take everyone into consideration before I vote to lynch somebody. Also, I've learned that first looks can be decieving, so I want it to go on a bit more and see his and everyone elses interactions with each other before I make a vote.

Also, I just want to say I'm not a fan of your question because it seems a bit rolefishy to me. I don't see what makes this game any different than other games, but I always prefer to be aligned with the town.

lol

Also just testing this out, it's pretty cool.

[Bricktoes]

i don't prefer a certain alignment as long as i get either a mafia or power role because i feel like i don't accomplish anything as vanilla town.

i have a couple questions. townies, what's your strategy? mafiosos, what is yours?

[cavjj]

Someone else do all the work and generate content and I'll help find the scum later.

You mean lurk?

If I was mafia and had a kill night 0, I would have killed I Am Innocent. With nothing else to go on I would've eliminated the most experienced player aside from myself both because it would make things slightly easier for me and because it would be unfair to get rid of one of the newer players before they even had the chance to play at all.

This is the same reason I would have voted for wickedestjr, although looking through it seems most of us newbies have played in one form or another and aware enough of "correct" theory so the advantage of voting this way is negligible I think.

i have a couple questions. townies, what's your strategy? mafiosos, what is yours?

I take it you are asking everyone what would their strategy be in those roles or are you seriously expecting (assuming you are VT) 6 answers for a town strategy and two for a scum? As a townie, for me it's a lynch all liars policy. Fake claim or lie without a bloody good reason and I will press for your lynch. As I have said, as scum, it has to be the most experienced N1 until a PR is revealed.

[DarkClaymore]

@Everyone- Did you want to be mafia or town this game? Which allignment would you have liked to receive the most?

I personally think being town is harder than mafia. So I'd prefer being town as it's more challenging. However, considering it's my fifth mafia game and I yet to be scum even once...

i have a couple questions. townies, what's your strategy? mafiosos, what is yours?

I think both as town and mafia I would attempt to look very pro-town. While I have never been mafia, I always tell myself that once I finally become one - I'd "forget about me being a mafia and think like a townie to the extreme".


And honestly, I hate D1. There's hardly any information that can be extracted during this phase. Especially since we can't force a tie between players and are forced to make a majority. I'd say atm there's no one I really suspect too much.

However, sometimes scum tend to make longer posts and make everything look VERY reasonable. So I'll keep my current vote as Abel fits the pattern.

[BBmolla]

Alright, well everyone has gotten a chance to talk, I think I'll place this here for now unless he is able to change my mind with some towntells or if someone seems scummier.

VOTE: Honest Abel

Who I'd like to see more from:

Scumhunter

- 1 post

Someone else do all the work and generate content and I'll help find the scum later.

I don't like this attitude at all, lurking is a terrible thing to do and if I see it becoming a pattern I will be looking your way. We get no town tells or scum tells from you, and because a town member isn't generally afraid of giving off towntells, I can only assume at this point you are scared scum. There is stuff to talk about, join the discussion. Otherwise my vote may just boomerang right back to you.

I am Innocent

- 2 posts

I like you're second post, but show me some more good posts so I can develop a better read on you.

Overall I just want to say, as far as newbie towns go we don't seem to have any members that shine as possible VI's as of yet which is a positive thing in my eyes.

[cavjj]

UNVOTE: I am innocent

I think the time for random voting is gradually coming to an end. I don't think though, that there has been enough discussion to legimately lynch potential scum. Its 10.40am where I am right now, I will look at anything posted by the time I get home fron work and see if there is anything then.

As I said, and as BBmolla pointed out as well, scumhunter needs to post more, on current basis though, I think I'll be voting for Honest Abel.

[I Am Innocent]

Cause I don't think we can scumhunt off of an introductory post. Do you?

RVS is about generating discussion. And when you get really lucky, you sometimes get a scumslip reaction to a few random votes.

I personally see "random" votes as you and cavjj did as ways to avoid causing conflicts with another poster. Could it be scum trying to step on as few a toes as possible. Maybe. It's noted anyway.

Let's skip the stupid discussion about how odds are slim I was chosen to be mafia on both rolls, shall we?

the odds are exactly the same each time, slim though they may be.

QFT (Quoted for truth)

Not really. It was the most pure random vote I could think of. What is the likelihood of

no-one

posting? Game ends just because I put that? Slightly melodramatic methinks.

Like BBmolla, you took the vote out of your hands and put it in someone else's.

As for the way you did it, I've seen players say, the last player to post in the thread or the last player to RVS vote gets my vote. For some reason that feels more protown than what you did.

Let's get to something a little meatier. If you were mafia and this game had actually had a Night start, who would you have killed and why?

Most likely the IC. If it was an SE or another strong player that knew me and my playing style from the past, probably them instead.

[I Am Innocent]

Like Whilst Post 25

+1 for him.

Interesting you would 1) be the one to bring this up when you say you don't want this discussed and 2) phrase it the way you do "how odds are slim"

By 'interesting' do you mean suspicious?

I found it a tad suspicious.

Why would a townie feel threatened by a random vote?

The easier question would be switching the word "would" out for "should." Personally nobody, scum or town, should feel threatened by a random vote. But it happens...I have seen it happen. My last scum game for example my partner got all flustered when he received 3 RVS votes.

@Everyone- Did you want to be mafia or town this game? Which allignment would you have liked to receive the most?

I find being town more challenging and prefer that alignment over mafia.

i have a couple questions. townies, what's your strategy? mafiosos, what is yours?

My strategy is to make people take stances. I'll be pushing people to identify who they suspect and what not. That and analyzing vote histories are two of the bigger parts of my scumhunting game.

***********

Gotta get ready for work now...will catch up on the rest later.

[DarkClaymore]

Oh, right. I didn't answer the question regarding N0 kill...
I personally think it's rather pointless compared to asking this question latter on regarding other nights but...

Many said they would have killed one of the more experienced players, but that's wine tbh. Think about it.
Most people here believe that one of the experienced players would be killed. So N0 passes and a newbie is killed. What would you think? Would you think that means all the experienced players are scum?

This can be a pretty good strategy to easily take out two or more townies. Kill a newbie at night and make the experienced ones suspicious so it'll be easier to kill them during the day.

As this is how I see it, I can't be sure who I would have killed. I believe that if the IC player were part of the mafia, I would have killed a newbie. People would expect the IC to be killed above anyone else. If a SE player is killed, they'd conclude the IC is most likely scum. Thus killing a newbie will be the right move as it'll make both the SE and IC players suspicious.

I believe in any other case I would have killed a IC as expected from me . Or perhaps a SE in order to make the IC a lynchbait due to reason stated above. But then again, I could always kill a newbie in order to make them all suspicious. So I think this is wine and there's no definite answer. Not for me at least.

[Honest Abel]

Many said they would have killed one of the more experienced players, but that's wine tbh. Think about it.
Most people here believe that one of the experienced players would be killed. So N0 passes and a newbie is killed. What would you think? Would you think that means all the experienced players are scum?

This can be a pretty good strategy to easily take out two or more townies. Kill a newbie at night and make the experienced ones suspicious so it'll be easier to kill them during the day.

As this is how I see it, I can't be sure who I would have killed. I believe that if the IC player were part of the mafia, I would have killed a newbie. People would expect the IC to be killed above anyone else. If a SE player is killed, they'd conclude the IC is most likely scum. Thus killing a newbie will be the right move as it'll make both the SE and IC players suspicious.

I believe in any other case I would have killed a IC as expected from me . Or perhaps a SE in order to make the IC a lynchbait due to reason stated above. But then again, I could always kill a newbie in order to make them all suspicious. So I think this is wine and there's no definite answer. Not for me at least.

I was hoping for this type of answer. I still don't think my question is entirely irrelevant. I wanted to see who would say the obvious answer, who would sheep that response, and who would put more thought into it and say something different. I think it established a decent starting point to figuring out a few players' posting style.

BBMolla

I'm getting a scum vibe, and here are my reasons why:

1. Instead of answering my question, he argued how it's pointless and irrelevant (which is something a townie
   might
   do if he had reason to be defensive, which he did, because I criticized his question first; but it's not a total loss because the conflict helped us learn a little bit about whilst).
2. He explained that mafia would have no need to lie and that no information could be gleaned from a N0 kill. I think it's safe to say that this isn't exactly true, and the dismissive attitude is noteworthy.
3. The EbWoP makes the original comment look like a total scum slip-up.
4. He only answered my question (begrudgingly) after whilst pointed out that BB would only continue arguing if he were scum.
5. Post #34, in which he defends why he's still arguing, strikes me as overly defensive of a silly thing. He's "trying to make [me] see" that my logic is flawed. What can a townie gain from doing that other than making the target look stupid and/or win the argument to gain points?
6. He was reluctant to be the third voter on my bandwagon, and only joined after someone pointed out his reluctance.

Unvote: dicknose

Vote: BBMolla

I have opinions of other players, too, but nothing else I see the use in sharing at the moment. If I get to L-1, I will share the rest of my thoughts, but they will be premature.