Toy Story Mafia (Day 9)

[Ray Montano]

Why's he a scumread again, now that he's active?

He never stopped being on my scum reads. Even though his activity has picked up he's still not pushing Umbrage as hard as his vote would suggest. He's attempting to convince players to vote Umbrage yet really hasn't shown THAT much reasoning behind why. What he has said I've agreed with but he's not being that loud about it.

@Peregrine I think I've made it very clear I would like to see Umbrage hang. Since you've conveniently missed this:

DonJosh
I don’t really care if Don’s self-stated meta is accurate or not, but it does give him an out if pressured for not contributing, not starting wagons, and not joining a wagon late to lynch. Statements like that, and then joining a wagon with a half-ass reason, not sitting right with me.

DJ's a flake and I'm getting more accustomed to his style of play. He's moved down a little bit on my radar because I'm thinking less of his half-assing is a scumtell and more just the way he is as a player.

[Hiraki]

why aren't you dead.

[Beefster]

Any posts in particular that make you feel "iffy?"

In general:
-Posts where they ask questions to several people at once.
-They aren't really putting their money where their mouths are.
-I feel like FA has been asking all the questions, but has done little to formulate their own opinion. There's been a lot of surveying from them, but very little actual scumhunting; most of their questions have been indirect.

Specific posts:
Post 152- A post of some reads. Analyzes a mostly RVS wagon and then proceeds to vote Umbrage with little cohesion. Presses to get players posting- not necessarily pro-town.
Post 161- Says that bob is scummier, but continues a vote on Umbrage. What?
Post 245- I don't like their point on DonJosh. They make little mention to Umbrage after that point.
----

For meta purposes: who are FA's heads?
I forgot to ask that earlier.

[Beefster]

I also realize that Post 161 was semi-refuted later, but I still don't really understand the logic.

[Flavour Analysis]

Anyways.

I believe Beefster isn't really reading closely enough. He believes he saw Kendall catch a contradiction, when it was really a misunderstanding from Kendall. Slightly scummier from him... Has anyone else besides Jmurph played with Beef?

You Guess? Beef, tell me your thoughts on this post right now.

I'm still behind by a few pages. So it makes sense that I didn't catch everything. I rarely read very closely anyway. My suspicions are usually based on recurring patterns and posts that stick out.

Ok. Then please don’t post until you are fully caught up, it causes us to slow down while you vote for reasons that are invalid and un-explained to you since you don’t have the time to finish analyzing the flavour. It also gives you an out “Oh well I voted you for a bad reason, but it was because I wasn’t fully caught up”. This causes unnecessary confusion and chaos. Now that the Kendall wars are dwindling, you may have an easier time. Right, but you didn’t even consider my defense before voting. Seems more like you just pick sides instead of actually decide if something is scummy or not.

---

I do hope however, if there is a vig out there with no other leads- shoot her because her whole attitude is getting old really fast.

my mistake, flavour. i mixed you up with glowball.

replace flavour with glowball in my final post.

bye bye

It is ok. That did seem like Glow trying to distance off of Kendall a bit. Also not a good reason to ask for a vig, attitude shouldn’t be a reason for a vig. Although vigging her for being a loud distraction to town is valid.

---

Lets go back to DJ then I like that.

Unvote, Vote: DonJosh

Seriously vig you better not be cheeky silver just asked for death AND Umbrage wants it too

Unvote
Vote: DonJosh

Logically this first may be somewhat better either way, but my gut still wants Umbrage.

Hey Rainbow, why did you change to DJ after Spy asked you to? Why not before when I or anyone else was pushing for him? Also, what is your read on Mb53 and Snakeside? Glowball?

---

Would anyone be willing to start a wagon with me on Peregrine?

Vote: peregrine

No. Peregrine is town. Period. Didn't you see that beautiful post of his?

Why is Pere town?

---

Any posts in particular that make you feel "iffy?"

In general:
-Posts where they ask questions to several people at once.
-They aren't really putting their money where their mouths are.
-I feel like FA has been asking all the questions, but has done little to formulate their own opinion. There's been a lot of surveying from them, but very little actual scumhunting; most of their questions have been indirect.

Specific posts:
Post 152- A post of some reads. Analyzes a mostly RVS wagon and then proceeds to vote Umbrage with little cohesion. Presses to get players posting- not necessarily pro-town.
Post 161- Says that bob is scummier, but continues a vote on Umbrage. What?
Post 245- I don't like their point on DonJosh. They make little mention to Umbrage after that point.
----

For meta purposes: who are FA's heads?
I forgot to ask that earlier.

-I do that to spread my leads out, and to develop my reads. This is D1 so I won't have specific reasons to ask a smaller pool of people questions.
-We have, it's just that both our voting targets hadn't either a). Responded to our pressure or b.) Posted content after committing the action which was suspicious (IE: Donjosh)
-After the Kendall wars, I tried to re-direct the town towards good discussion, instead of more Kendall garbage. I have done enough to formulate my opinion.

Post 152

- Analyzing the RVS wagon, how is this scummy? Voting Umbrage instead of Bob at the time, why is this scummy? Pressing for activity, how is that scummy?

Post 161

- If you saw it refuted, why exactly don't you understand the logic? Why haven't you asked me about it?

Post 245

- Why didn't you like the point on DJ, and how is that scummy? At the time I voted Umby, I voted him for his second post into the game (which he just posted). I was expecting a reply to my vote, but never got one (I didn't know he was VI, thought he would have done better seeing the 2010 join date), and I moved on to looking at opportunistic scum. [Donjosh, Ninty, Mikehard] How is this scummy?

Hydra is Ranmaru/July.

Questions for you

:

What is your read on Mb53?
What is your read on Glowball?
What is your read on Rainbow Dash?
What is your read on Mike Hard?
What is your read on Snakeside?

@

Umbrage

: Why did you react that way now, instead when I have voted you early on? *Wrt to your AtE* You have never responded to my pressure.

---

@

Hiraki

: Kendall mentioned the serial killer thing, and I think she saw Glow saying VIG but interpreted it as serial killer. No idea why.

---

@

Spyrex

: I agree with Glow. Beck hasn’t done as much as you and I know he would do. I think he should be null, unless you have a good reason for him to be town. Also Glow is still null to me.

---

@

Mb53

: Why do you think Pere is scum? Read on Beefy, and Rainbow?

---

Everyone: Remember that Donjosh and Umbrage ARE NOT THE ONLY CHOICES ToDAY. Keep this in mind, and do not say "They are the only lynches happening" to bully others into joining the major wagons. If you have suspicions of others, please do push for it. You have the time, we are not near deadline.

[Rainbowdash]

Lets go back to DJ then I like that.

Unvote, Vote: DonJosh

Seriously vig you better not be cheeky silver just asked for death AND Umbrage wants it too

Unvote
Vote: DonJosh

Logically this first may be somewhat better either way, but my gut still wants Umbrage.

Hey Rainbow, why did you change to DJ after Spy asked you to? Why not before when I or anyone else was pushing for him? Also, what is your read on Mb53 and Snakeside? Glowball?

After the Spy post, it became far more likely that I was for sure getting my vig on Umbrage, so at that point I became fine with his lynch. Also I realized how much of my case revolved around there being multi-scum, which if is not the case Umbrage isn't quite as scummy although I still wouldn't cry over his lynch/vig. If both are dead by daybreak, I would rather lynch DJ just for that little bit of reevaluation time.

mb is null to slight scum due to me not knowing anything about him but his avatar and "Made stupid vote" in my notes. Other two are town of varying degrees.

[Umbrage]

Why isn't Kendall dead yet?

[jmurph3]

And speaking of flying under the radar:

In other news, I've commented on who I think is important. If anyone has any specifics they'd like me to address, kindly point it/them out.

Its nice that you commented on the two leading wagons but really that doesn't provide much discussion. There are more persons of interest that have been the discussion of a lot of hot topic but you know, just commenting on Umbrage and DJ is a real great way of keeping yourself out of hot water.

As I said in the same post, I am more than happy to address any specifics if/when addressed at me. If you're looking for me to list out every single person and give an opinion on them, you're out of luck. Additionally, I also commented on Beefster and why my vote is still there, but I guess you missed that part of my post.

Big wall coming tomorrow, cuz I have things IRL today, and I still need to finish catching up.

I sincerely look forward to seeing this.

[Rainbowdash]

Why isn't Kendall dead yet?

You miss the post where someone daykilled him and he flipped LGM - Town? Please keep up with things better.

[jmurph3]

Ninja'd by Umbrage...

Why isn't Kendall dead yet?

Oy. Just...oy. At least it's affirming my VI read on him...

[mb53]

@Mb53: Why do you think Pere is scum? Read on Beefy, and Rainbow?

Whyyy do all of you think he's townnnn? He's sitting there pulling reads out of his ass, giving no good reasons. In one day, he goes from

@Whoever- Top 3 scum suspects?
RayMontano
Umbrage
Beefster

to

Vote:DonJosh

--
It would appear chkflip has bailed. Too much pressure to try and explain how the useless questions are useful.
--
I've got a bad feeling about Spyrex. Anyone else, or am I just going crazy?

[SnakeSide]

farside here. Snake is out of town this week and I got some things that came up and a game I feel behind in.

Mod: Consider this account on V/LA for a least 2 more days.

I should have most everything worked out by then.
Thank you.

[Ray Montano]

As I said in the same post, I am more than happy to address any specifics if/when addressed at me. If you're looking for me to list out every single person and give an opinion on them, you're out of luck. Additionally, I also commented on Beefster and why my vote is still there, but I guess you missed that part of my post.

I'm not. Unless there's less than ten people left I would never ask someone to list their reads on everyone. But surely there must be someone to comment on other than the two leading wagons (the majority of everyone else's leads) and your one vote. I don't feel like anyone should have to babysit you and tell you who to comment on either. You honestly have nothing original to say about the 20 other players in this game?

[Flavour Analysis]

Lets go back to DJ then I like that.

Unvote, Vote: DonJosh

Seriously vig you better not be cheeky silver just asked for death AND Umbrage wants it too

Unvote
Vote: DonJosh

Logically this first may be somewhat better either way, but my gut still wants Umbrage.

Hey Rainbow, why did you change to DJ after Spy asked you to? Why not before when I or anyone else was pushing for him? Also, what is your read on Mb53 and Snakeside? Glowball?

After the Spy post, it became far more likely that I was for sure getting my vig on Umbrage, so at that point I became fine with his lynch. Also I realized how much of my case revolved around there being multi-scum, which if is not the case Umbrage isn't quite as scummy although I still wouldn't cry over his lynch/vig. If both are dead by daybreak, I would rather lynch DJ just for that little bit of reevaluation time.

mb is null to slight scum due to me not knowing anything about him but his avatar and "Made stupid vote" in my notes. Other two are town of varying degrees.

But did you ever speak of DJ as a scumspect before? Also, how do you feel about wagoning Beefy? Would you join me? (I'm intending on voting him)

[Flavour Analysis]

Mb53

: I never said he was town. I asked you why you thought he was scum, there is a difference.

Chkflip has already explained the purpose of his questions, actually. So your point is invalid. His slot hasn't delivered reads/stances though, which makes me sad.

Spyrex doesn't give me bad vibes. Why is he giving you bad vibes?

[Ranmaru]

QQ no support

unvote

My bet is that there are multiple scum on the DJ wagon. It's growing really quickly for no great reasons. Unless his "wall" is scum-tastic, I'm likely going to re-vote umbrage.

Btw, MB. Why didn't you react that way towards Beef when he stated Pere was town, without reason? Why aren't you still voting him? Why didn't you wait a little longer, or push a little harder?

[Flavour Analysis]

QQ no support

unvote

My bet is that there are multiple scum on the DJ wagon. It's growing really quickly for no great reasons. Unless his "wall" is scum-tastic, I'm likely going to re-vote umbrage.

Btw, MB. Why didn't you react that way towards Beef when he stated Pere was town, without reason? Why aren't you still voting him? Why didn't you wait a little longer, or push a little harder?

FUCK.

[Umbrage]

Why isn't Kendall dead yet?

You miss the post where someone daykilled him and he flipped LGM - Town? Please keep up with things better.

ISOed mod. No flip scene. Please don't smoke pot while posting.

[mb53]

Mb53: I never said he was town. I asked you why you thought he was scum, there is a difference.

My whining about why everyone thinks he is town also because of beefster calling him town, and the fact that no one wnated to wagon him with me.

hkflip has already explained the purpose of his questions, actually. So your point is invalid.

Oh so he did. They still were useless and didn't accomplish anything though.

I realized I forgot to give the other reads you asked for. Both beefster and rainbow are null, leaning slightly town.

I feel like spyrex's "take control of the town" attitude in his 2nd post feels scum motivated.
PEdit: Because I was seeing 0 support from almost 50 posts between mine. I guess I could have pushed harder, but I don't see anyone willing to join me

PEdit2: lol...

[Flavour Analysis]

@RainbowDash

: Are you entirely new to this site, or a hydra/alt?

@

MB53

:
I disagree. They were helpful in building discussion. Kendall may have been right about the one question asking what the person would be known for, but even so it helped spark discussion (Even though it was semi-helpful). My other head likes that method better than RVS, while I like RVS better than RQS. Even so, it all would be a big fat null.

Questions

:
Oh ok, why exactly are they both leaning town to you?
Expand on this "take control of the town" scum motivation theory.
I still think you should have waited for support/reactions regardless. Who are you voting now again?

*Grumble Grumble* I hate when I post on the wrong account.

[Silver1337]

I looked through and can't see inHim being daykilled. Might be 'cuz I'm tired. x) Will reread tomorrow... again.
Why is everything voting DonJosh all of a sudden? I don't think he's done anything too scummy. A bit lurky like me, but that's not a scumtell, it's a way of playing. Nothing I've seen him post is scummy.

[Flavour Analysis]

Hey Silver. What do you think of Beefster and Glowball?

[diddin]

So much dissonance from the Ray Montano slot.

I'm 95% sure Rainbow is an alt.

[SpyreX]

VOTE: Don

Flakier than frosted flakes, made a total of 6 posts, seen him very active on the boards, get back or get out. Your choice.

This vote is a bad vote. Its ok though.

QQ no support
unvote

My bet is that there are multiple scum on the DJ wagon. It's growing really quickly for no great reasons. Unless his "wall" is scum-tastic, I'm likely going to re-vote umbrage.

Every wagon (pretty much) has scum on it somewhere its the nature of the beast. Yelling OMG THERES SCUM ON HEREEES is about as useful as a fart in the wind if you're just going to tsk, tsk them all.

Flaking is a nulltell. I've seen flaking about the same from all alignments.

Just for that, I'm feeling uneasy about you. Looking for an easy target, eh?

This post would be a death sentence if I had the bullets. Especially followed up by voting for FA.

Both were on my list of reads and I'd like to see both go but I'd rather lynch Umbrage over DJ. I think DJ's play in this game is more consistent with just the type of player he is and considering his tendency to flake I think its likely we'll get a replacement who'll be more helpful. He says he's got a big wall coming up but to be honest I have no expectations of him. Although I am interested to see if he carries through.

Umbrage IS more dangerous.

He's louder and more persistent in his opinions, which don't have much weight to them. His "argument" with Rainbow was just ridiculous. Instead of debating things through he pouts and whines when questioned farther. Umbrage should be lynched.

Both are about as "dangerous" as a kitten who sat out in the sun for a day and then ate a whole gallon of ice cream.

And what in the hell does "dangerous" mean. Call a scum a scum and a town a town.

why aren't you dead.

There's too many they're everywhere but yes.

@Spyrex: I agree with Glow. Beck hasn’t done as much as you and I know he would do. I think he should be null, unless you have a good reason for him to be town. Also Glow is still null to me.

You can call it a secret towntell or what have you but while I may not be super awesome at finding scum I am pretty damn good at finding town. Beck is town. Glow is more town. Diddin is the most town but I can't let that secret or any of my secrets out into the open.

I've got a bad feeling about Spyrex. Anyone else, or am I just going crazy?

Be hot or be cold. Tepid gets spit out. And by spit out I mean turned into a red misty vapor.

I looked through and can't see inHim being daykilled. Might be 'cuz I'm tired. x) Will reread tomorrow... again.
Why is everything voting DonJosh all of a sudden? I don't think he's done anything too scummy. A bit lurky like me, but that's not a scumtell, it's a way of playing. Nothing I've seen him post is scummy.

Hmmm I need some input:

Is this a cheeky scumbag playing dumb town exceptionally well?

[Ray Montano]

And what in the hell does "dangerous" mean. Call a scum a scum and a town a town.

Don't be ridiculous you know players are more dangerous based on their ability to manipulate and talk their way out of things. DJ =/= Umbrage on terms of threat level.