Open 322: C9++ [Game Over - Scum Win]

[projectmatt]

Vote: Nobody Special

This is much better.

[Honest Abel]

Semantics. The point is you've said I've distorted your points a lot, and I don't think I have.

No, not semantics. Different things. Multiple things. I will post examples and explain how you distorted my statements tonight.

Scum can make up whatever reads they want, but it's their actions you have to pay attention to, and your actions were in line with what scum would do to defend a buddy in that situation. This is basically the same point I made in my big case at the start of this day.

It's not enough to say I was defending him. Please post examples of me defending DonJosh. I will gladly explain how and why you are wrong in each case.

I think the problem here is that we have 4 people voting, all of whom seem to have made up their minds pretty firmly (except maybe NS), and then you not voting but still posting, and then four people who are all either away, catching up, or just mysteriously gone. It's hard to get anything done when half the players aren't here.

That's absolutely a problem. This has turned into the slowest mafia game I've ever played. I'm not voting because I was expecting a discussion about strategy related to DCJ. Otherwise, I'm quite ready to lynch NS or DCJ. I just don't see the point in rushing the day just because some players seem to be taking a break.

[Honest Abel]

matt, why are you not commenting on the DCJ cop claim?

[Honest Abel]

Okay, you said you don't know what to think. P.S., since he asked to replace out, he hasn't been in this thread, but has been elsewhere on the site. I think it's safe to say he's through with the game. Good luck to whoever wants to take his spot.

[GMan]

Yes, DCJ has officially requested replacement

[GMan]

Vote Count 2.8

• Darkcoffeejazz (2): Nobody Special, Kcdaspot
  
• Honest Abel (2): Amor, don_johnson
  
• Nobody Special (2): izakthegoomba, projectmatt

Not voting: SGRaaize, Darkcoffeejazz, Honest Abel

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

• Day 2 Deadline is Thursday August 25th, 1:30PM EST.

[Honest Abel]

The following is a record of Amor twisting of my words (because he asked). The first few are subtle and possibly understandable how he misinterpreted, I admit. The latter cases are blatant, though, which makes the subtle ones also seem purposeful. That said, this probably isn't something only scum would do. I appreciate that Amor has been putting pressure on me, but the logic just isn't there, and for much of it, he has to manipulate my words to make a point:

What's convenient about agreeing with wagons?

You're saying that it's not convenient and safe to head into a thread and say "I agree with what everyone else said"

Nope, didn't say it's not convenient. I asked what was convenient because I didn't see what was about what

I

did. That said, I see how it could be a safe move to come in and agree with almost everyone in any general situation, but

I

didn't show up and just say "I agree with everyone." I gave my own reasons in #126, none of which had been brought up before except maybe the first, which hadn't been stated explicity.

He tried to set himself up as the ur-townie when he came into the thread being all "you guys need to post bettar"

Exaggeration/strawman. I wasn't trying to set myself up as something, I was trying to set up a comprehensible game to play in. I didn't say I was better than anyone else, but something needed to be said eventually.

I'm not unused to the focus being on me in Day 1 — it usually is because I post a lot and I try to get the most people interacting in the thread, which draws a lot of attention.

the last sentence is basically "People are just attacking me because I'm so pro-town and active", which is ridiculous.

Except I said it in the midst of nobody attacking me, except you, and you hadn't been too proactive about it at that point.

In his next post he proceeds to soft-defending Josh by attacking Matt's case on him.

Based on that "wall," it seems like projectmatt finds DonJosh scummy for two reasons:

DonJosh forgot that there was a reroll (something NS also admitted)
DonJosh seemed overly defensive (something that projectmatt himself is more guilty of)

Based on what projectmatt has said and nothing else, I find a disparity between his weak suspicions of DonJosh and his confidence that DonJosh is scum. If we were to lynch DonJosh and he flips scum, projectmatt should definitely be the next move. My only concern is that DonJosh doesn't seem scummy enough to me to lynch at the moment.

This is a clear-cut case of defending someone while stating a token suspicion on them, which is clear scum-scum interaction. He's basically attacking the case against Josh and Matt is scummy for voting him, while hedging it in a language that tries to make it looks like he still suspects Josh. The last paragraph is extremely revealing. He sets up a chain lynch on Matt if Josh flips scum, despite saying that he doesn't really think Josh is scummy.

You really go overboard here. Not once in that quote do I say Josh is not scummy. At the most I say Josh is as scummy as NS for one reason and that matt is scummier than Josh for the other reason. I was critiquing matt's weak line of reasoning. And his weak reasoning on Josh was not the only thing against him at the time.[/list]

I'm assuming you're talking about DonJosh when you say "His reaction was panic"? Or Big Sleep? I can see that applying to DonJosh's reaction to the two-vote wagon. But since then, he hasn't been defending himself or panicking at all, it seems. Which is why I said earlier that it would be better to put more pressure on you guys.

At this point -- only one RL day since his post expressing suspicion of Josh -- he's full-on defending him. Buddylicious.

Suggesting that we put more pressure on scummy behavior is defending him? Saying he's not defending himself and not panicking (which was really a reference to him not posting at all, because he hadn't been) was not a defense of him. If anything, it's a reason he was scummy.

if someone says "I'm voting X because Y" and you say "X hasn't done Y at all" that's at the very least a soft defense. This is a lot scummier than outright defending someone is, because it tries to move votes off your partner while adding an air of plausible deniability.

I simply have not done that (until this sentence ), yet you bank a case on it without example.






Also found these gems in rereading Amor's posts. Talk about defending DonJosh:

Guys let's not lynch DonJosh.

Because Josh is an obvious mislynch, that's why. He's just the kind of lazy townie that scum try to push a lynch towards with authorative statements like the ones quoted above.

Also, I find it pretty convenient that you happen to wonder whether you were wrong about Josh right as he hits L-2.

Something to keep in mind for D3.

[Kcdaspot]

... he gotcha amor.. back off.

[Kcdaspot]

I like this suspicion on amor...

Abel you're leading the charge can you complete the case?

Amor is scum. why?

[Honest Abel]

Sure, right after you respond to #670 to #675.

[Kcdaspot]

In my eyes Donjohn is obvtown.

He posted only a few times for the stage of the game we are in but everyone of them delivers in some way shape or form...

Why would a cop investigate a heavy town read? even if it's DCJ, when the consencus (i think) had Donjohn as town why?

total waste.

combine that with the dead guy investigation, it scream scum for me. i'd buy him investigateing jason and then say either me or you abel but but investigating Donjosh just reads as SO FAKE.

hang on.

[Kcdaspot]

second time i say donJOSH instead of john...

damn. anyway reading DCJ's ISO.

[Kcdaspot]

did a search he only mentions Don_johnson twice.

once quoted and the other time the investigation.

combine that with the rest of his iso.

yeah, i'm not moving this vote for nothing.

[Honest Abel]

I'm not sold that don_johnson is obvious town, and maybe DCJ wasn't either. I don't think it's enough to say he's lying. Investigating the dead guy is suspiciously convenient, though, but you buy it?

It would have helped if DCJ gave reasons for his investigations. I don't think anyone is going to fill his spot if they take a look at the thread first.

[Kcdaspot]

Shit happens.

seen that actually happen alot. I buy it on it's own. NOT with Donjohn's investigation as well.

[Kcdaspot]

now..

Amor case.

Go.

[Honest Abel]

Actually, I think I see what you're saying: not just that it's weird DCJ would investigate don_johnson, but that it makes total sense for a fake cop to say they got a town read on don_johnson, because nobody's going to say otherwise. Or maybe that's not what you're saying, but that's what makes sense to me. All he said about it is that don_johnson is a "monkey with a gun who barely posts." lol, okay.

[Honest Abel]

I'm not making a case why Amor is scummy. In fact, rereading his posts before, I could probably make a better case why he's town. 90% of his focus was on me, but he did comment on relevant other happenings at the time and asked pointed questions or made good assertions about other players, too. If DCJ or NS were to flip town, I'd look more into Amor for defending DonJosh, but there's not much else to the case other than that. #706 is me defending myself to a townie, sorry to say.

[Kcdaspot]

Actually, I think I see what you're saying: not just that it's weird DCJ would investigate don_johnson, but that it makes total sense for a fake cop to say they got a town read on don_johnson, because nobody's going to say otherwise. Or maybe that's not what you're saying, but that's what makes sense to me. All he said about it is that don_johnson is a "monkey with a gun who barely posts." lol, okay.

BING-OOOOOOOOOO

[Kcdaspot]

I'm not making a case why Amor is scummy. In fact, rereading his posts before, I could probably make a better case why he's town. 90% of his focus was on me, but he did comment on relevant other happenings at the time and asked pointed questions or made good assertions about other players, too. If DCJ or NS were to flip town, I'd look more into Amor for defending DonJosh, but there's not much else to the case other than that. #706 is me defending myself to a townie, sorry to say.

Sweet!

so DCJ wagon plz?

[Honest Abel]

As always, your enthusiasm makes it difficult.

But given that he's been pointedly useless the whole game, that he put forward a suspicious L-2 copclaim (L-2 might have made sense if he had a

good

claim to make, but alas), and that he's basically fried his slot:

VOTE: Darkcoffeejazz

[Honest Abel]

Just a notice, that makes it L-1.

[Kcdaspot]

L-2*

[Honest Abel]

Oh, you're right. Five to lynch, not four.

[SGRaaize]

Rereading, hold on to your butts