NY136: The Death of ReaperCharlie (GAME OVER, Town win!)

[David Xanatos]

"I lynched the SK"?

You didn't vote.

Not one vote/unvote on Day 3.

Also, you threatened AlmasterGM on D1 with moving your vote to him, then outright ignored his response, in favour of continuing to harbour your vote on Parama. D2 you simply hopped on the Parama wagon, heavily if not totally Mastin driven.. You asked a lot of questions, but did sod all other than harbour your vote on Parama once more. (Although you had an advantage there, knowing your scumbuddies.)

Ice > Why would the SK be Poison otherwise? Why would I have specifically noted that the SK was poison (My ISO #14).. if this was pulled up as a "Gambit" last night?

[Iecerint]

I do not understand your question/point...I know I personally had assumed that the SK was the poisoner from the time of the first flip on D2...?

[David Xanatos]

As Gunsmith, I couldn't detect him, even if I tried. That's why I noted it, that post was when it "clicked" for me about why the SK had poison..

[MrBuddyLee]

"I lynched the SK"?

You didn't vote.

Not one vote/unvote on Day 3.

Big whoop. I was on saporo from start to finish D3:

I'm feeling saporo as scum more powerfully than I'm feeling Shanba. Yesterday, saporo jumped off Parama at L-2 to give him a chance to make his case, then jumped on Hrez instead of back on Parama without explaining the logic behind her abandonment of the Paramawagon.

D2 you simply hopped on the Parama wagon, heavily if not totally Mastin driven.. You asked a lot of questions, but did sod all other than harbour your vote on Parama once more.

So dishonest. I kicked ass D2. This post in particular:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p3265758

I'm leaning towards Parama-scummish, saporo-scummish, DH-townish. Big picture, Parama is scum for previously stated reasons, saporo pushed DH as a legit and non-bussish lynch and hopped on and off Parama oddly. Paramascum would benefit by keeping DH-town around for protection, and DH's approach to the game generally comes across as townish to me. Other players tie in to this picture, but those three fit together the tightest.

Hrez/CTD is probably town who's the alternative lynchbait today, but that's getting far afield.

[Iecerint]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I see.

Good point.

OK, that starts to make it too big of a conspiracy. Officially leaning MBL-lynch, even though he was a big townread.

[Iecerint]

Why did you need to read up on something, though?

[Iecerint]

Seriously, that's a really really strong kill-flavor-focused-roletell, or a long-range conspiracy, or a very fortunate result of post-mining on DX's part, roughly from most to least likely.

[CrashTextDummie]

I feel like this conversation between Iece and Xanatos is going over my head. A post in which he says he doesn't think the poison kill is from an SK is where it clicked for him that the SK had poison? Maybe I'm not reading it correctly.

This is the post in question:

It would be revealed when he doesn't take the shot though. Better to know our own resources. Out of 18, I'd wager there's either 4 or 5 mafia.. with an SK, I'm inclined to say 4. That means there are still 3 out there..

Also.. I think I know why it's an instant poisoner rather than a shot from the SK... but I'll need to read up on something.

[CrashTextDummie]

Oh, I think I see it now. It's supposed to mean: "why the SK has instant poison instead of a shot"

I'm gonna have to reread the context of this post.

[Iecerint]

The point/claim is that DX is a gunsmith who cannot catch the SK because the SK does not use guns. The fact that DX's behavior fit this PoV even on D3 implies that a hypothetical Gunsmith fakeclaim conspiracy would have to go back to D3; it's not something new DX just made-up after a Cop fakeclaim fell through, for example.

Alternate possibilities:
1. There really WAS such an elaborate conspiracy. Unlikely, cuz he didn't bring it up for a long time.
2. DX really meant something else when he posted that, and it just appears to be consistent with a Gunsmith having an A-Ha moment. Possible, but I can't imagine what it would've been.

P-edit: Correct.

[CrashTextDummie]

I realize now why this has me confused. At the time, I thought he was just pointlessly and somewhat nonsensically discussing theory. From his Iso #3:

Also, I'm curious.. how did people come to the conclusion that there's an SK? There looks to be a poisoner (Although I've never seen a poisoner who takes instant action..) and a Mafia NK, given the lack of a second NK N2, why are people thinking SK over Vig?

I read his Iso #14 as a continuation of that thought, that he didn't think the poison kill came from an SK, but rather from a poisoner.

Still reading.

[Amrun]

VC4.3

(0) DemonHybrid
(3) David Xanatos - MrBuddyLee, DemonHybrid, CrashTextDummie
(0) Iecerint
(0) CrashTextDummie
(2) MrBuddyLee - David Xanatos, Yosarian2
(2) Yosarian2 - Hydra
(0) Hydra
(0) ToastyToast

Not Voting: Iecerint, ToastyToast

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: Friday, August 19, 11pm EST

Spoiler: Vote History

DemonHybrid - Yosarian2 > unvote > David Xanatos > unvote> Yosarian2 > David Xanatos
David Xanatos - MrBuddyLee
Iecerint -
CrashTextDummie - David Xanatos > unvote > David Xanatos
MrBuddyLee - David Xanatos
Yosarian2 - MrBuddyLee
Hydra - David Xanatos > Yosarian2
ToastyToast -

If there are any mistakes, please let me know

[ToastyToast]

Vote:MBL

Need to show where I'm standing. Even if DX made a dumb mistake, he sounds genuine.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote:MBL

Need to show where I'm standing. Even if DX made a dumb mistake, he sounds genuine.

What the fuck are you doing

[MrBuddyLee]

It's just a game. :/ If we lose to this fakeclaim, I'll be pissed, but whatever. Xanatos has carried it well.

[Iecerint]

DH, what do you think about DX's iso 14?

[DemonHybrid]

Meh.

Unvote, Vote: MrBuddyLee

That was far back.

[DemonHybrid]

Why didn't anyone say "DH, just fucking read ISO 14"?

[Iecerint]

I triple-posted about it.

[MrBuddyLee]

Ok, lame. You guys need to vig Xanatos overnight and lynch Yosarian tomorrow.

If it's a 3 scum + SK setup, we win at that point.

If it's 4 scum + SK, and Xanatos has a RB on his team, (which is prob the case considering they gambitted) game's over, you guys fucked up.

Otherwise it'll be 2 town 1 scum remaining.

If it's 2 on 1 at the end, Iece and CTD will probably have been NKed over the next two nights, leaving two neighbors and Hydra. If that's the case, Hydra's probably the last remaining scum.

Good luck, and I can't believe I'm being lynched as town for the 2nd game in a row. This never happens. You can thank me later for finding all the scum, I suppose.

[Yosarian2]

Yos, I do NOT appreciate being called a moron for voting a player who's so obviously lying his ass off even the fucking blind can see it. A gunsmith gets "has a gun"/"doesn't have a gun", NOT "guilty"/"innocent", THAT does not make any sense. It's the whole point of the fucking role. Xanatos is asking me to believe that the mod fucked up in his role PM when the obvious solution to this mystery is that he simply forgot that he fakeclaimed gunsmith, not cop, when he made that post.

Considering how often I've seen mods make that kind of error in games, I hardly think that's a strong argument at all. If anything, that makes him look more town to me.

I am sorry I called you a moron; that's not fair, you're not one. But I'm getting so frustrated by people not willing to see the obvious here; it's so obvious to me at this point that Xantos is telling the truth, basically every post of his screams town.

[Yosarian2]

Why didn't anyone say "DH, just fucking read ISO 14"?

Wow, I didn't even see that post. He thinks he knows why the SK doesn't have a gun? That is strong.

Anyway, if there's 2 scum, it's MBL/Hydra. If there's 3 scum, then that means scum have a rolecop, and it has to be MBL/Hydra/CTD (with CTD knowing the doc claim was a lie becuase the scum rolecop targeted the SK). (I've done almost that exact gambit as scum before, heh.)

When MBL flips scum, Icerent shoot hydra, Xantos investigate whoever you want (the three unconfirmed are me, Hydra, and CTD); and CTD, flip a coin and protect either Icerent or Xantos. With any luck, MBL is the scum roleblocker. If he's not, scum are going to try to roleblock one of the power roles and kill the other, but if CTD *is* actually town, they're going to have a hard time doing that. Also, remember, if we don't lynch the roleblocker today, then we have to assume that one of the power roles will fail tonight, so don't worry too much about you both targeting the same person.

[David Xanatos]

If there are 2 scum, we're looking at a 50% shot of him being the RB..

@mod: If it comes to a 1 scum remaining situation, and they have a power role, can they use both the PR and the NK?

[CrashTextDummie]

Right. Hydra would have had ample chance to hammer by now, so the risk of a DX/Yos/Hydra scum-team is out the window. And I do have to admit that Xanatos Iso #14 is very convincing. I'm ready to drop the hammer pending an answer from the mod to Xanatos' question. Yos' suggested night actions look solid to me.

[Hydra]

WOOOOOOSH. Catching up.

PEdit: Hydra, you or Yos can be lynched tomorrow though.

From my point of view, Yosarian should be lynched today, and I already setup a plan to catch the final remaining scum. It makes 100% sense from where i'm sitting, as I know he has to be scum.

One of you knows who the other Scum is,

True.

We don't know which one.. so better to eliminate the Guilty read first, and I scan you or Yos tonight.

The problem is I don't even know if you're an actual gunsmith or not, town or not, so i'm no more inclined to follow your plan than to actually follow my own thought on who is scum here or not.

Post 1024 and 1026 from Mastin. As I said above, a CT is only a threat as far as their reads are correct.

A CT is a threat because they are confirmed town, their reads and motive are not in question.

Yes, yes, I know that you're also scum, but even if we lynch you and you flip scum, it doesn't actually solve the problem, we're still in the same situation tomorrow.

No, you're scum for several reasons. The first of which is the fact you didn't run through the same thought process I did, only coming around to what I was thinking after realizing that is how town Yos would of thought in the same situation. You didn't think that because you were scum.

And we're not in the same situation tomorrow, because scum is down a member (you, who could possibly be the roleblocker), which would then confirm David X and leave town with a vig doc and gunsmith to ferret out the last scum (which would be obviously MrBuddyLee in that situation).

Ideally, we want to deal with the Xantos/MBL problem now, while we still have a living vig.

See here's another problem. You aren't seeing it as the Xantos MBL problem, as you've been on MRBuddy all day. You've just placed down a vote, so to you its not a problem at all. And we have a doctor in the town, so i'm not sure why you're so concerned with the vig dying overnight, as he is guaranteed a shot at the very least.

It sounds to me, though, that you just want to mislynch me today so then tomorrow you and your buddy MBL can mislynch Xantos and win.

Or, it sounds like town who has nailed a scum pushing for their lynch on someone he thinks is 100% confirmed scum. You yourself even stated you would be willing to lynch me, which is just the 'crime' you are accusing me off:

I mean, we could lynch you today, if that's what you want.

~~~~~

Okay, stop right there, get down on the ground and freeze.

Unvote, Vote: David Xanatos

I'm asking you to switch your vote back onto Yosarian. I know you don't have the knowledge I'm town to work with, but nothing he's done today makes sense from a town point of view, and I know for a fact here is scum. This lynch is 100% preferable to choosing between those two.


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