Open 326: Pick Your Poison (Ende des Speils!)

[glowball]

glowball:

At what point did you decide (in your head) that Maruchan was more worthy of a vote than Saulres?

When I voted him.

[glowball]

glowball:

At what point did you decide (in your head) that Maruchan was more worthy of a vote than Saulres?

When I voted him.

No, no that's not fair sorry for the triple post... When I was asked to do the case I found him alarmingly more scummy than Saulres.

[thunderwielder]

As for your points, some of them have been addressed AND I never promised a case on Saulres I actually recall saying I don't think he deserved a formal case because his scumminess was obvious. The point is that I have addressed the case you made, maybe not to your liking but it's been addressed YOU OBVIOUSLY ARE NOT READING MY POSTS.

Look at this post, call yourself a hypocrite, realize that not only I have asked for your case on Saulres (as has Amrun), Realize that in order for me to stop suspecting you as scum you're going to need to give your reads and provide cases for people other than "well, it's obvious, huh duuhhh", Realize that partially addressing ONE of my points (which was later corrected) does not constitute as "some of them have been addressed," Realize that you're not really doing anything to scum hunt

@other towners, realize that she's not doing anything to scum hunt, and I don't understand how everyone just seems to be giving her a free pass

, and realize that you're going to actually have to provide examples to everything I've been asking you in order for me to get off your back (not just trying to brush it under the rug).
If you decide to post another one sentence response, then just rinse and repeat the above.

@ everyone in the town

other than Amrun, Supreme Overlord and Saulres (or anyone else that responded to my case--actually, Amrun, you can explain this too, but I think you already have), can you explain to me why Glowball's actions are pro-town and are moving us forward towards our goal of lynching scum? Or are they scummy? And if so, why are you not voting for Glowball. Is there a scummier option? Why? It's pretty evident I'm getting really focused on Glowball right now, and I'm starting to get really annoyed with her lack of responses and contributions to the town, so I would appreciate feedback and another option to consider for today--BACKED BY SOLID REASONING, not just a whim and a prayer and a statement that "so-and-so" is obviously scum and doesn't need explaning. Treat me like I'm a six year old, if you wouldn't mind. Thanks a bundle.

As for other lynches, the only other person on my radar right now is Nobody Special. When is his V/LA over again? But even with being on V/LA, somehow every time he posts, he gets just a little bit scummier (the not remembering his only scum read--one that I even re-emphasized in my big shit wall, is suspect to me).
Right now, I really only want to vote for Glowball, but I can envision a Nobody Special lynch. But only if everyone seems to disagree with my Glowball lynch. Again, please answer my above question. I would reaaaallly appreciate it.

[glowball]

As for your points, some of them have been addressed AND I never promised a case on Saulres I actually recall saying I don't think he deserved a formal case because his scumminess was obvious. The point is that I have addressed the case you made, maybe not to your liking but it's been addressed YOU OBVIOUSLY ARE NOT READING MY POSTS.

Look at this post, call yourself a hypocrite, realize that not only I have asked for your case on Saulres (as has Amrun), Realize that in order for me to stop suspecting you as scum you're going to need to give your reads and provide cases for people other than "well, it's obvious, huh duuhhh", Realize that partially addressing ONE of my points (which was later corrected) does not constitute as "some of them have been addressed," Realize that you're not really doing anything to scum hunt

@other towners, realize that she's not doing anything to scum hunt, and I don't understand how everyone just seems to be giving her a free pass

, and realize that you're going to actually have to provide examples to everything I've been asking you in order for me to get off your back (not just trying to brush it under the rug).
If you decide to post another one sentence response, then just rinse and repeat the above.

I NEVER PROMISED A CASE
You can ASK me all you want, which is all that link takes me to is a post YOU made. Find a post where I said I would do it and I will do it. I never said I'd give you a case on Saulres so I am not giving you a case. I am not a hypocrite but thanks for trying. I know you are trying to rail this home which keeps me flip flopping on your alignment. There are several people not pulling their weight in scumhunting, yet you choose to tunnel on me with not much to say about others. Tbh I don't mind if you attack me for certain things, but your play shows obvious favoritism and tunneling. My scumhunting has taken place, I made a case I am not giving the reads and I've explained what you've asked- Just not to your liking. I will only lynch Maruchan or Saulres today because it will help me immensely get better reads in this game. PERIOD. Scumhunting is virtually over on that end because no one is really saying anything

[RoboThor]

Ah-hoy-hoy.

Popping in with fresh opinions.

@glowball - Both heads find glowball's reticence and standoffishness to be highly anti-town. We're not sure if it translates to scum yet, but neither of us wish to maintain our past town read there. We shall cast her down to the mushy nulls and will consider her a possible lynch for the day. You have failed to show her as obv. scum though, why not vote NS?

Hoppster continues the overall townishness of his slot - an NS vote is pure win.

NS continues the overall totally inability of his slot to say or do anything - why is this wagon so hard to get going?

@glowball - your entire 'can't explain town reads' concept appears to be based off the idea that scum can't figure out who is pro town. I've never had this problem when I've been scum, do you? Now, please, what's your read on NS - would you vote him? (if 'yes' then please do so).

@Amrun - why are you against a NS lynch? Is it just 'not scum due to total failure to do anything' or do you actually have a pro-town read there?

[RoboThor]

@glowball - Both heads find glowball's reticence and standoffishness to be highly anti-town. We're not sure if it translates to scum yet, but neither of us wish to maintain our past town read there. We shall cast her down to the mushy nulls and will consider her a possible lynch for the day. You have failed to show her as obv. scum though, why not vote NS?

This should be;
@thunder

[glowball]

@glowball - your entire 'can't explain town reads' concept appears to be based off the idea that scum can't figure out who is pro town. I've never had this problem when I've been scum, do you? Now, please, what's your read on NS - would you vote him? (if 'yes' then please do so).

No, I don't want to give town reads for a couple of different reasons. If scum know who every finds to be town they can assess the group accordingly, ALSO I don't feel that reads make that much of a difference if I die by lynching or if I die at night people just write of reads as NK WIFOM when they shouldn't. I hate dying after giving my reads and being right to watch the reads that I was asked for be ignored. It's just a frustrating practice that I am considering not participating in anymore using this game as the test.

No, to your second question as well I am only lynching Maruchan or Saulres today.

[saulres]

thunderwielder, I'll summarize the case against me, since glowball isn't willing to do it.

saulres is scum because:
1) He had to be asked to vote in RVS
2) He asked newbie questions
3) He didn't scumhunt until his 17th post, and then it was almost all meta

There, I think you're caught up now. Glad to be of service. If I missed anything let me know.

My next goal will be to look at the RoboThor vs. NS debate and offer my opinions on them.

[thunderwielder]

[...]
rah rah rah
[...]

I give up.
I am hereby giving up trying to get you to pull your weight for the town and resign myself to a stone cold wall of nothingness forever emanating from your slot (my hypocrite comment was directed at you not reading my posts, where I rephrased one of my questions, yet you played the hurt card ONCE AGAIN, and claimed I wasn't reading any of your posts, when I would really really truly like to see where you're coming from).

I don't understand why you're not trying to convince me you're town. I don't understand why you refuse to provide a case on one of your top two scumspects. I don't understand why you keep pushing opinions under the rug and aren't answering questions (such as the one I posted on the top of page 12 about Maruchan's questions that you "purposefully" forgot to answer). I don't understand anything about your play or your "playstyle" or why any of it is beneficial to the town or why ANY town player would play like you are playing right now.
I just can't wrap my head around any of it, and I'm pretty much fed up with trying.

To RoboThor,
You're right. It seems nobody agrees with my evidence. But the Nobody Special wagon and the Glowball wagon are currently tied... Howsabout if Nobody Special gets up to 4 votes, I'll vote for him, and if Glowball gets up to 4 votes, you vote for her, and we do the other one tomorrow? Ja?

[Amrun]

glowball:

At what point did you decide (in your head) that Maruchan was more worthy of a vote than Saulres?

When I voted him.

But before you voted him, you said that you didn't find Saulres more scummy than Maruchan. So this can't be true.

[glowball]

glowball:

At what point did you decide (in your head) that Maruchan was more worthy of a vote than Saulres?

When I voted him.

But before you voted him, you said that you didn't find Saulres more scummy than Maruchan. So this can't be true.

Here are some quotes from BEFORE I voted him...

So right now SCUM POINTS for Maruchan and Saulres

I never said Saulres is more scummy than Maruchan

that is just a deduction you made from my vote placement- why don't you check when that vote was made...

Amrun-

I NEVER said that Maruchan was scummier than Saulres- and vice versa.

.

Then when I made my case, I voted for Maruchan. SO I found him scummy enough for a vote over Saulres when I made my case WHEN I VOTED HIM just like I said...

Now after all of this you may wonder- well if you think he's scummy why aren't you voting him?" Good Point...
VOTE: Maruchan

This is not to say that Saulres is off of the hook- he's just laid low recently, adding to his lack of scumhunting and I am considering giving him the BoD and not just assume that he's newbscum sliding by like I did in my newbie game. That being said, short of some crazy upset Maruchan or Saulres need to die today their flips will tell the most...

[Amrun]

Here is how it went down.

1. You vote saulres

2. Someone assumes you think sares is scummiest (logical)

3. You correct that person with a vague statement

It's the logical inference to assume that at that point, you found maruchan scummier, or there would have been no correction necessary.

[Hoppster]

glowball - you believe scum-reads are important and town-reads are not, but you don't think it's important to justify scum-reads (as is implied by your refusal to make a case on saulres)?


Amrun, you haven't mentioned lane for 100+ posts (15 of

your

posts) yet you're voting for him - why?

(Ie. do none of the current wagons float your boat, why aren't you pushing this lane-wagon more, what is the lane case anyway, etcetera)

[glowball]

glowball - you believe scum-reads are important and town-reads are not, but you don't think it's important to justify scum-reads (as is implied by your refusal to make a case on saulres)?

My initial vote on Saulres was VERY early on and I didn't feel the need to make a case on him because at that point not much had happen so I thought his behavior was obvious.

I made a case on Maruchan because that vote was later and I am satisfied that his behavior is much scummier at this point in the game. I made a case on the person I want lynched today- the fact that Saulres is an acceptable lynch is just by product.

[thunderwielder]

Why is Saulres an acceptable lynch!?!?!? This is where "cases" and "reads" and "evidence" comes

just a little bit

into the game...

If you're going off information, there is none to be had with Saulres, because the bandwagon (which you joined and gave little weight to) never had time to develop before it dissipated into nothingness. Therefore, how much information can you get from a Saulres lynch?

By pushing a Saulres lynch, when you really have nothing to support that case, and saying it's the one of the two ONLY lynches you'll go for, without having a single piece of evidence other than supposition is crazy talk.

The way I look at it (the

only

way I can perceive it) is that you're a scum trying to make sure you're not tunnelling and providing two suspects is a good way to show that you are looking for scum in two different places, but your first suspect is arbitrary and based upon

nothing

--yet you're sticking to it like glue, since you've dug yourself into a hole of sensitivity and stubborness that is masquerading itself as "playstyle."
Even before, EVEN WHEN YOU WERE VOTING HIM, you argued that you didn't find him scummier than Maruchan--which is why I brought that up in the first place, which is another thing that you quashed by saying "Page 6=inconsequential".

[glowball]

I thought you weren't talking to me

[thunderwielder]

I thought you weren't talking to me

Really?? *sigh*

Could someone else maybe re-iterate my questions for Glowball so she might think about participating? Since she seems to have some ridiculous vendetta against me. Why? Oh, for calling her out on contradictions and scummy behaviour and evidence that doesn't make sense. You're right, I definitely shouldn't have done that. Shame on me.

[glowball]

You are being mean and sarcastic again.

[Supreme Overlord]

So far as deciding between a NS and a glowball lynch is concerned:
NS has been useless, but he is on V/LA and the lack on interactions between him and anyone else severely limits the information we'd get from lynching him. I'm willing to give him a chance to get into the game and contribute. If he does come back but still has nothing worthwhile to say, I'll be happy to lynch him.
glowball is consistantly posting and refusing to cooperate in a pro-town manner. I think lynching glowball would be more worthwhile in terms of information; plus we have more from this slot to make an informed decision in the first place.


@hoppster: What's your opinion on glowball? WHat would it take for you to vote her over NS?

(Yes, I know there's been some facts. Few and far between, but they're there. Somewhere. )

It would be awesome for you to tell us what they are. Also, who are you willing to lynch?

I actually recall saying I don't think he [saulres] deserved a formal case because his scumminess was obvious.

Is his scumminess still obvious to you? If so, can you point out a couple of places so it can be obvious to the rest of us as well?

I hate dying after giving my reads and being right to watch the reads that I was asked for be ignored. It's just a frustrating practice that I am considering not participating in anymore using this game as the test.

What you can conclude from this game already is that refusing to give reads actually makes you appear more scummy, and therefore more likely to die, and therefore more likely (in your opinion) to have your reads ignored. Simple solution: give out your reads, particularly when people ask you explicitly for them.

@Amrun, what's your opinion on NS and glowball?

[glowball]

You know, if people are willing to be one person down because of a crappy case and my refusal to give town reads then you guys deserve whatever comes from it. I have given my scum reads.

[thunderwielder]

You are being mean and sarcastic again.

For the love of everything I believe in, I'm really not trying to be. I'm just trying to play a game, and your constant avoidance of playing something I thought we all were here to do is starting to really get on my nerves. Like I said before--IT IS NEVER MY INTENTION TO HURT FEELINGS--and personally I think you're a little too close to the issue to judge whether or not my comments are mean. They are sarcastic, oh yes, quite, but not mean.

I would like to just re-iterate what I perceive to be Glowball's strategy. I feel she is currently sticking to her guns to support a "playstyle" defence against any earlier contradictions and evidence that was brought up against her. By reverting back to this "wounded state", she's doing to things 1)driving me up the freaking wall and 2)making everyone focus on this aspect of her playstyle rather than any of the evidence that I brought about before.
I can't see a town playing this way. If I were town, and had done this, and felt I was digging myself into a hole, I would start explaining things up the wazoo so that I didn't screw the town over.



If I were

scum

, playing in this fashion, I would probably still try to explain things--unless I didn't have explanation, in which case I would try and turn the tables using my emotions, and get into a ridiculous argument long enough for everyone to forget why I had received votes in the first place , and at the same time discredit my main attacker by getting him into a pointless argument that makes everyone devalue his opinion and his scumhunting capabilities.

-I would really not like this situation to occur.

I'm going to now take a break from Glowball, and maybe from the game for a day or so (I'll be searching for places to live on Friday Saturday and probably Sunday) I hope to be back here Monday. Maybe my urge to throw my computer at the wall will have lessened by then. Until Monday, however, I'm going to officially put myself on

V/LA

because I know I won't have time to post this weekend, and I think it's better for my health not to touch this game tomorrow. I'll try my damndest to post on Monday (and if I can, during the weekend, but most likely no posting, just keeping up to date), but if I don't, please be lenient with me, because I've probably got bigger things on my mind. I'll say

V/LA until Tuesday

just to be safe. I'll make sure I can come back and vote, if the Nobody Special wagon takes on more steam than the Glowball wagon.

PEdit - But I agree with Supreme Overlord that I would like to give NS time to participate in the game. Maybe his active lurking and no content has really just been a result of not being here.

[Supreme Overlord]

Could someone else maybe re-iterate my questions for Glowball so she might think about participating?

Allow me.

I never said Saulres is more scummy than Maruchan that is just a deduction you made from my vote placement- why don't you check when that vote was made...

Walls come from town and scum- I never said that only scum do walls and it isn't one of my tells so I feel like maybe you aren't understanding my points on walls. I am sure that their are scum writing walls, but that's just a hunch and definitely not enough deserving of a vote. By the way, I definitely never said it was a STRONG tell, or a tell at all- I do believe that both town and scum write walls...so stop intentionally

misrepping

me or if it was an accident you need to provide quotes for things you have questions on.

FoS: Thunder

Never had a formal "case" on Saulres, again check when the vote was made. At this point there is more of a chance of him being scum because he reminds me of myself as a newb, but my vote may or may not change as I've been looking at him AND Maruchan. Both are fine lynches for the day...

Please quote the post where thunder was misrepping you.

I asked you to point out saulres' scumminess in my previous post (dot points or quotes, please).

Um, the other question was yours and I don't remember what is was- if you wanted answered you need to ask it again, I'm not going through searching and quoting a question, I'm lazy.

Maruchan didn't even notice that I didn't answer his question. This is only one of two I purposefully ignored. Maruchan isn't scum hunting- he's defending himself, buddying, and fluffing w/ a side of distraction. He obviously doesn't care about his answers because he never even noticed that I didn't answer, and if he did he just let it die.

This isn't quite a contradiction, but why are you willing to attack someone for not pushing for an answer, while you are also 'too lazy' to answer questions you've left outstanding?


However, I believe there was actually only this question, which glowball did answer in #269. The point still stands, though,

So its a bad thing if the game actually STARTS being a game on page for, rather than on page 10? Its bad for us to start actual content early? ... Why exactly?

Can you go through post #256 (thunder's case), and explain why

all

of it is entirely based on playstyle. If some of it isn't, defend yourself against that part.

... And ... give your reads on NS and myself, and explain why you have them.

[glowball]

This game is just so exhausting. I will definitely post tomorrow and try to go through this with you guys again. I would replace out, but I've done that before and watched my replacement die because people didn't like how I played. SO I will take this death myself.

[thunderwielder]

Um, the other question was yours and I don't remember what is was- if you wanted answered you need to ask it again, I'm not going through searching and quoting a question, I'm lazy.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this one of the big reasons you got in a tizzy over Maruchan?

And, if you're listening to me, I would also maybe like to see a response to this question I asked you as well.



Goodnight everyone, and have a great weekend.

[saulres]

This game is just so exhausting.

Word.