Open 329: Mayo Clinic D3: Town WINS!

[whispersilk]

No, we have to have everyone protected, except for the two docs protecting the vigs. We don't leave anyone else unprotected. That's exactly why this plan will work.

Scum don't have to kill anyone. And we don't know who the mafia doctor is? Also, your idea of putting the scummy players out in the open is naive imo. I haven't played that many games of mafia, but I do that the scummiest looking players are most often town, hence why D1 almost always ends in a mislynch. We don't put the scummy looking players out there to be picked off. We let the vigs find the goons while taking absolute minimal losses.

Honestly, this game got screwed up the moment everyone was told to claim. Now that everyone is out in the open, WE HAVE to use that to our advantage.

[Thomith]

if we didnt claim there was a high possibility the game would end night 2, and if the plan wasnt structured properly like it wasn't the first time then it would probably end the same night or night 3.

[GreyICE]

Townsfolk: Anyone who resists my plan is obv scum.

Only if it involves you dying.

Really, saying shit like this just makes you look like scum. I'm one of the towniest people in this game. I'm so towny that I drew up a plan that places me in one of only two positions that the scum can take out if the plan goes ahead. I'm willing to die to see my plan go into action and for the vigs to find the goons.

Why do I deserve to die?

Also, why have you ignored my plan?... I asked you for your opinion of it due to the fact I had you in the other vig protect slot.

No, Whispersilk, it's because you're an unconfirmed player trying to make a night action plan OVER TOP that of CONFIRMED TOWN.

There's no town motive to do this.

Add in your general early game lurking, the fact that you STILL haven't had a single scum read, and the fact that every time you get bored you whine about dumb shit (town look scummier than scum so we shouldn't kill scummy people? REALLY?) and you need death so badly it isn't even funny.

[Thomith]

The town look scummier from scum remark was terribad imo, however i don't think it would come from scum, however that could be me being naive but i doubt it would come from scum.

[Maruchan]

Also Maruchan is rubbing me REALLY wrong. Which probably means he's scum

Would you mind stating what about me "rubs you wrong"? Other than that I disagree with lynchign neil ofc.

[Maruchan]

FYI, if Neil flips SK, after I flip doctor, Izak and Maruchan loooooooved my 1v1 idea. I still think Neil is scum, but if he is actually SK, well, scum will know that.

I loved it cuz I think he is SK and I think you are scum for not wanting a free third shot

[Maruchan]

Nah, because you don't think I'm scum. You've already claimed it, Izak. Were I scum, I'd know if Neil were scum, and thus I'd only make the bet were you to die 100%.

The bet was only to see if you'd jump at it ^-^

Vig Izak if Neil flips SK, vig Thomith if Neil flips mafia. Easy as that.

Why are we listening to you?

By the by, why are the non-confirmeds setting up the night action plans?

Because it's funny to let scum set them up?

[whispersilk]

No, Whispersilk, it's because you're an unconfirmed player trying to make a night action plan OVER TOP that of CONFIRMED TOWN.

Oh, so you and glow are confirmed town then? Because the last time I checked, BB's plan was abandoned, and you and glow took over and started telling everyone else what should happen. So what makes you any more confirmed than me? The only two confirmed town are the vigs, and they are welcome to take my plan and either refuse to carry it thru, or to kill me tonight and then adopt the plan themselves. If they decide to trust me, then they are also welcome to arrange the doc pool any way they see fit, because at the end of the day, the order makes no difference as long as it stays the same.

There's no town motive to do this.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but someone needs to take charge of what is going to happen tonight, otherwise the vigs are going to kill town and there will be nothing learned. The docs will protect whoever. And the scum will have a field day. If I had one, I'd bet my left nut that the scummiest looking players are actually town, and that the scum are laying low.

Seriously, your aversion to the one plan that limits town casualties is alarming. We need information, and the vigs are the ones that will provide it.

Add in your general early game lurking,

Where is it written that lurking equals scum? And as I explained, I was too busy with rl to post the first couple of days. I'm here now and I have a plan that will work. Again, your insistence that I am scum is both silly and scummy.

the fact that you STILL haven't had a single scum read,

Scum reads mean nothing right now, because the vigs are deciding who to kill, not the town. And real scum hunting was abandoned the moment you forced every one to claim. But if you want my opinion, you are coming off hella scummy right now.

and the fact that every time you get bored you whine about dumb shit

Where am I whining about anything?

(town look scummier than scum so we shouldn't kill scummy people? REALLY?)

Of course town look scummy. You look like you're played quite a few games, so you tell me, isn't it true that D1 lynches usually end in mislynch? If that's the case, then it's proof that town can appear scummy and it means nothing. Remember, scum want to fit in and appear towny, the don't want to appear scummy. You need to brush up on your mafia 101 imo.

and you need death so badly it isn't even funny.

Yes, you are either scum, or just a townie that is butthurt because your plan sucks.

[whispersilk]

Plan to follow if neil is the SK:

Fundamentals of the plan:

• The main aim of the plan is for the vigs to find the two goons by using their kills to create a group of confirmed doctors. At this point in the plan it makes no difference if this group of confirmed doctors includes the scum doc or not. The scum doc will be taken care of later on in the game.
  
  
• It is crucial that the vigs stay alive for as long as possible. They will each be protected by one confirmed doctor every night.
  
  
• The first problem that scum will face is this: they cannot kill anyone in the renaming doc pool without outing one of their own. This means that all docs in the doc pool will survive unless one is hit by a vig. If one or two town docs are hit by the vigs over one or two nights, then the doctors that were supposed to be protecting them will become
  confirmed scum
  and should be auto lynched the next day. If two scum are found in one night, then one gets lynched during the next day, and the following night the other is thrown from the doc pool, left unprotected and BOTH vigs target him to ensure the kill is not thwarted by the scum doctor.
  
  
• The second problem scum will face is this: the scum doctor is going to be forced to protect the person they are told to protect because the vigs will be targeting randomly. Scum cannot chance protecting one of their own because if their "plan doc" dies, they will have been caught. Scum cannot know who is being targeted.
  
  
• The third problem scum will face is this: even if the scum doc (once a confirmed doc) is put on vig protect duty, the scum cannot take out that vig without outing the scum doc in the process. This means theoretically that the scum doc could then not choose to protect the vig at all, but choose to protect one of their goons (if still alive) to create a confirmed doc goon, however there is a back up for this scenario.
  
  
• In my original plan, I had said that the vigs should pick randomly from the doc pool, and I still believe this to be the best course. However, there is nothing to say that the scum doc will not end up protecting one of the vigs, and will take the chance to not protect the vig, but protect one of the goons instead. So, I have come up with an altered vig plan that relies on the vigs turning truly random and trusting me completely.
  
  
• Night 1: I will protect vig #2 and glowball will protect vig #1.
  
  
• On night 1, Vig #1 will pick a target from docs #1-4, and vig #2 will pick either doc 5,6, or 7 OR THE OTHER VIG. This is where the trust part comes in. BB and Quoaroth must believe that I am town. I've picked glow because I think she is town too, but I no one can be sure. Therefore, on the off chance she is the scum doc, there must be a chance that her vig will be targetted and therefore she will not take the chance of protecting anyone else. It is crucial that neither of the vigs speculate or state who they might be targeting, and it is crucial that both vigs agree to follow this to the letter. I know this sounds crazy... targeting your fellow vig. But it the one way to ensure that if the scum doc is trying to be clever, that they are caught in the process. This will be the smartest way to find the scum doc. If glowball is the scum doc, she will have no choice but to protect her vig or take the chance that vig #2 decides to target him. If she is the scum doc, and she does take the chance of protecting one of the goons, and vig #2 decides to target vig #1, then we will will lose a vig, but we will have caught the scum that is going to be hardest to catch. Good trade, imo. Vigs have to be prepared to kill each other to find the scum doc. If glow is a goon, then scum won't target her vig, because they will out her as scum by doing so.
  
  
• As scum have no choice but to kill one of the docs protecting the vigs, and it will mean that either myself or glowball will die tonight. They cannot kill anyone else without revealing themselves.
  
  
• When day 2 starts there will have been one of these possible outcomes:
  
  1) Scum have killed either whispersilk or glow and both of the vigs targets survived. Both vig targets survived.
  2) Scum have killed either whispersilk or glow and one of the vigs has killed either a town doc or a goon. The other vigs target survived.
  3) Scum have killed either whispersilk or glow and both of the vigs has killed either a town doc or a goon.
  4) Scum have killed either whispersilk or glow and one of the vigs has killed the other vig. The dead vigs target was killed or survived.
  
  
  If result #1:
  
  
  The docs that were protecting the two vig targets are now confirmed docs and will each protect a vig on night 2. Either myself or glow (depending on who was night killed), will be thrown into the doc pool. The doc pool remains the same as night 1 with that exception. Night 2 proceeds as night 1 with the vig picking targets from their respective pool, but now ALSO with the added choice of targeting each other.
  
  Yes, the vigs must randomly choose to target either someone from the doc pool (with the same vig#1 choosing from docs #1-4 etc, or they can choose to target the other vig. This will ensure that if the scum doc ends up protecting the vig, that they actually do what they are told. If a vig targets the other vig, and they die, then the doc is the scum doc 100% guaranteed.
  
  It is vital that the vigs not be scared about targeting each other because it is crucial that those confirmed docs are tested randomly.
  
  
  If result #2:
  
  
  The doc that protected the vig target that survived becomes confirmed doc and replaces the dead doc from vig watch. The doc that was supposed to be protecting the player that the other vig killed becomes confirmed scum and is lynched that day. He will likely be a goon.
  
  Night 2 proceeds as night 1 with the vig picking targets from their respective pool, but now ALSO with the added choice of targeting each other.
  
  
  If result #3:
  
  
  This would be the perfect result. Both docs that were supposed to be protecting the dead vig targets now become confirmed scum. Scum #1 is lynched that day, and scum #2 is targeted by BOTH vigs that night. Vigs are protected by their confirmed docs. All other docs protect each other on the train as normal. Plan then goes as follows: Day 3 - Vigs decide who to lynch and the rest sheep them without question. Either this results in a town death, or the scum doc is found and it's game over. If town is lynched on day 3, then night 4 proceeds with vigs still protected by confirmed docs, except now the doc train is broken and ALL DOCS protect both the vigs. This leaves the scum doc exposed, and the vigs just start picking off two docs at a time until they hit the scum doc. The possible targets need to include the two docs on vig protect duty.
  
  Should things go this way, the scum doc can kill another doc, but that's fine because it just makes endgame happen sooner. If the scum will be unable to kill the vig because they will be double protected at the very least. Night continue until either the scum doc is lynched during the day, or he is killed at night.
  
  Eventually this scenario will happen because as soon as both goons are found, then things proceeds immediately to this plan.
  
  
  If result #4:
  
  
  The doc that failed his vig protect duty is confirmed scum and is lynched the that day. The remaining vig is then protected by
  three
  docs on night 2 and he starts randomly targets someone from the remaining doc pool. The remaining doc pool protect each other. This continues until the 2nd scum is found, then the plan switches to all docs protecting the vig, and the vig taking them out one at a time, and lynching during the day.
  
  If the dead vig targeted someone and they died, then obv that docs protection is confirmed scum and is lynched.
  
  Basically, once both goons are found, the all docs protect the vigs, and the vigs starts picking them off one by one. The scum doc will be found by elimination or by good scum hunting during the day.
  
  Proposed:
  
  1) BBMolla protected by glowball
  2) Quoaroth protected by Whispersilk
  
  
  Doctors
  
  
  1)Izak - protected by Quilford
  2)PiggyGal - protected by Izak
  3)VitaminR - protected by PiggyGal
  4)Maruchan - protected by VitaminR
  
  5)Thomith - protected by Maruchan
  6)greyice - protected by Thomith
  7)Quilford - protected by greyice

Criticism, comments and suggestions welcome.

Again it is crucial that the vigs not be scared to target each other randomly.

Just everyone keep this in mind: if this plan is not followed, then night 1 could result in 3 town deaths and no scum found. Night 2 can result in the same, and it will be a scum win all round.

I don't believe that all three scum are suspected at the moment. I think most of the top suspects of the moment are just scummy looking town. We can't afford to start killing just anyone. It needs to be methodical, otherwise scum will get the upper hand.

[izakthegoomba]

That... seems to work perfectly. It's verging onto breaking, actually, if everyone does what they're told.

[Maruchan]

So I protect tomith?

K i'm ready

[GreyICE]

Yeah, I'll just be over here laughing when the plan includes the words 'the vigs should not be afraid to shoot each other randomly.'

How about we don't submit kills on confirmed town. ESPECIALLY SINCE IF THE VIG DIES WE DON'T KNOW WHO THEY SUBMITTED A KILL ON YOU DUMBASS.

Whispersilk gets shot.

[GreyICE]

Also it's interesting to know that scumhunting is an either/or proposition with you. Either you make a night action plan OR you scumhunt.

[Thomith]

explain how it is a good idea for vigs to shoot each other?

[whispersilk]

Let me point this out:

If a scum doc ends up protecting a vig, then they have the choice to out themselves to take out one vig. I don't believe they will, but they have that choice and we will lose a vig

We should not be afraid to have the vigs target themselves randomly, because if one should die, then the DOC THAT WAS PROTECTING THEM IS CONFIRMED SCUM DOC AND TOWN WILL WIN because only the goons will be left, and maybe only one by that time.

Sacrificing one vig to get the scum doc is not a bad thing.

[whispersilk]

Also it's interesting to know that scumhunting is an either/or proposition with you. Either you make a night action plan OR you scumhunt.

Obv you didn't bother to read the plan.

Town will scum hunt during the day as normal, but the vigs decide who to lynch at the end of the day. Did you miss the part about scum hunting happening during the day as normal?

Why are being so negative about an obviously legit and sound plan for the town to win?

[izakthegoomba]

@Thomith because if the vig dies when they are vigged, the person assigned to protect them is ConfScum. Of it's N2 or later, they are ConfMafDoc.

PEdit: yeah, whisper ninja'd me.

[GreyICE]

Furthermore, this has a fairly low chance of catching scum.

Even if we assume Neil is the SK, there's 2 goons without a protect who are the only people who will be caught this way. That gives us far under 50% chance of catching scum any given night this way, while we lose a townie every single night.

So basically the plan is to gamble and lose.

That's fucking horrid.

I veto everything whispersilk has written, it's a plan to get the town to lose the game. Look at it. 2/11 shots get us scum, 2 shots fired each night, and 1 townie dies per night.

OH AND IF THE SHOT HITS THEN ONE TOWNIE DIES TOO.

So at a minimum we'd be sacrificing 2 town per scum dead (one from night kill, one from vig), we'd have a zero percent chance to catch the mafia doctor, and we'd be sacrificing every benefit of having a doctor.

Stupid plan was stupid.

Oh and a great way for town to lose game.

[GreyICE]

And here comes Izak to support Whispersilk.

[whispersilk]

Furthermore, this has a fairly low chance of catching scum.

Even if we assume Neil is the SK, there's 2 goons without a protect who are the only people who will be caught this way. That gives us far under 50% chance of catching scum any given night this way, while we lose a townie every single night.

So basically the plan is to gamble and lose.

That's fucking horrid.

I veto everything whispersilk has written, it's a plan to get the town to lose the game. Look at it. 2/11 shots get us scum, 2 shots fired each night, and 1 townie dies per night.

OH AND IF THE SHOT HITS THEN ONE TOWNIE DIES TOO.

So at a minimum we'd be sacrificing 2 town per scum dead (one from night kill, one from vig), we'd have a zero percent chance to catch the mafia doctor, and we'd be sacrificing every benefit of having a doctor.

Stupid plan was stupid.

Oh and a great way for town to lose game.

Are you stupid?

If the vigs kill whoever tonight and the docs are all protecting randomly, then anywhere from 1-3 town will die for sure. Same night 2.

If the plan is followed, then 1-3 town will still die, but if it's 2-3 then 1 or 2 scum will have been found.

The plan ensures that if the vigs hit a townie, then scum are found.

[Thomith]

Are you stupid? when the vigs aree told to shoot each other the mafia would shoot them too to frame a towny.

[izakthegoomba]

The vigs RANDOMLY choose their target.

[whispersilk]

Are you stupid? when the vigs aree told to shoot each other the mafia would shoot them too to frame a towny.

No, but I'm beginning to think everyone else is.

Read the plan again.

[whispersilk]

I like how all greyice can do it pick silly things to criticise, and when I reply and prove him wrong, he just tries to find something else to criticise.

Hey grey, if I'm scum and you're so smart, then YOU come up with a plan that ensures that each time the vig picks a townie to kill we find scum in return. Plus each time we confirm docs, the pool of possible scum gets smaller and smaller, meaning during the day, town can hunt the goon/s from a small group of people.

[GreyICE]

How about we just use the vig shots as an extra lynch or two, minimize scum night kills, and play this as essentially a nightless with good scumhunting, since if we can render it down to near nightless then 8:2:1 or 8:3 nightless is heavily town favored?

Also, they're not nitpicks. It's 20% on a vig shooting scum. That's not even 50/50 it happens once a night. We lose 1 townie per night, 100%. So on average we lose 3 townies per scum death, and we have 8 townies.

Yes, your plan is how the scum win. Either you're scum, or you've done zero scumhunting and made a plan that ensures their victory barring 'I made money in Vegas' luck.