Mini 62: Pokemafia!

[Stewie]

Actually, of the claimed pokemons the only one that could have quick attack is Vulpix. I would think a rocket could have a rattata, which would also do the attack.

I think your FOS/Vote are OMGUS. I also think you are scum, since apparantly massive's role wasn't so specific about what attack it used, and it seems weird to have exactly 2 legendary pokemon (I would think 1 or 3 would be a good number, but not 2) and both having the same ability.

[massive]

I am trying to resolve something in my mind.

The first night, there were two kills. Both were seemingly attributed to Team Rocket.

The second night, of the three kills, only one was attributed to the Rockets. Was this because we lynched one of the Rockets? Is it possible that BOTH Rockets could kill independently each night, and that we're only dealing with one remaining Rocket?

The issue about Diglett and quick-attack is that mathcam suggested this exact idea on page 10. While I am curious what Diglett does, I don't think mathcam would suggest the possibility of it if it were actually his Pokemon's ability.

shadyforce, when you read this quote:

The converse problem is, if we don't lynch anyone today, we risk being in the same position we are in RIGHT NOW when tomorrow dawns. (p10)

Did no bells go off in your head? Or did you think I was referring to Articuno?

And we still haven't cleared up mlaker's death or the mystery of the double sleepers. I guess, thinking about it, that there CAN'T be just one Rocket left, since we have to have someone perform the Ghastly kill and someone use a sleeper Pokemon on mlaker so that Stewie can kill him.

This is just too confusing. There must be some evidence that proves someone guilty.

[Stewie]

Here:

http://www.cheatplanet.com/gbstrategy/pokemon_2.txt

That should be proof enough that Dugtrio does not have quick attack (it's under "pokemon abilities" I believe, and to make it faster for you, it's number 50/51.

[shadyforce]

I know that DIglett doesn't learn quick attack, but I also know that Diglett/Dugtrio is especially known for their speed and is far quicker than any of the other pokémon we claim to have with maybe abra a distant second.

But now that you mention it, it might make sense since Vulpix does learn the attack (something I didn't remember right away), that Vulpix has that power and it does raise my suspicion of Massive ever so slightly.

Another possibility is that whichever rocket has this pokémon lied and suspicion would lie on people who have claimed pokémon but not yet revealed what.

I guess we still have much to discuss and uncover.

Massive: I'm not sure what you mean, maybe you could rephrase your question.

[mathcam]

I'd rather not reveal what Diglett does, but if it's life or death, then I'm happy to. It's a role that's better when concealed.

Stewie, did you mean Diglett instead of Dugtrio?

Cam

[Stewie]

yeah... pretty much same thing

[mathcam]

Oh, right. Dugtrio was the evolved Diglett. Has

anyone

managed to evolve their Pokemon? I successfully used Bulbosaur (oh wait, did I?) but he didn't evolve at all. I forgot what happened...I targeted massive, but then he still had 3 pokemon. What was up with that again?

Cam

[massive]

Vulpix's ability prevents all Pokemon from targetting me at night (she scares them off for completeness's sake, although she's so cute I can't imagine). You targetted me with Bulbasaur, I scared him off with Vulpix.

Shadyforce: I had been hinting about Moltres's power in the posts leading up to that quote; mathcam had been pointedly asking about my precursory knowledge of "less kills happening overnight." That quote came directly after those, and should have, I would have thought, indicated exactly what Moltres's power was IF YOU HAD A POKEMON WITH THE SAME ABILITY. The question is, why didn't it trigger for you? You later on were surprised when Moltres had the same ability as Articuno.

[shadyforce]

Hmm, I'm very surprised actually. Maybe I was very tired or my mind was elsewhere when I read those posts but I never noticed your hint. It's not that the hint didn't regester with me, I hadn't noticed the hint at all. I suppose I should be more careful reading the thread.

And, as I already explained, I was more surprised the day ended before I got my choice in.

[Fletcher]

OK, it doesn't seem to be helping us prolonging the day like this. Should we just lynch him?

[Stewie]

I've been wanting to lynch him ever since massive said that his role wasn't specific about the attack used.

[massive]

I just don't know. I'm still trying to figure out why Zapdos isn't in the game. If I remember right, shady announced that he had Articuno before I admitted to having Moltres ... up until that point, no one had a even a remotely powerful Pokemon, so why risk having the whole thing come down on you by claiming a Legendary and having it turn out to be the ONLY Legendary? Look at the starting Pokemon:

Me: Moltres
Fletcher: Psyduck
mathcam: Diglett
Stewie: Kangaskhan
shadyforce: Articuno

Boo: Meowth
Electra: Squirtle
PBuG: Grimer
Maverick: Magnemite
discer: Nidoran [male]
mlaker: Drowzee
Someone: Shellder

Articuno would stand out like a sore thumb if you stood it by itself next to all these Pokemon. It was the first one claimed in name that didn't evolve, and shady would have had to determine what his claimed initial Pokemon was WAY in advance, since on page three he delineates that his initial Pokemon is one-shot.

I understand the concerns about shadyforce's claims, but what you are accusing him off goes against what I perceive to be good Mafia play. And I perceive shadyforce to be a good Mafia player.

[mathcam]

Well, I know this argument has been said before, but having 1 out of the 3 legendary pokemon seems a lot more likely to me than having 2 of the 3 legendar pokemon in the game. I would guess that mole didn't think about the specific number of legendary pokemon, but instead just tried to balance the starting roles as they were included.

I don't know anything about Zapdos...if he's evil, it's possible that shady (or, really, anyone) is lying about their original pokemon and having zapdos in stead. Now that I think about it, if Zapdos is evil, I'll strongly consider unvoting.

Cam

[massive]

Random thoughts:

With the possibility that Rockets would learn of and recruit a "killer" Pokemon (which they evidently have done) and allowing themselves the benefit of two kills per night, I think having some extremely powerful pro-town roles in from the beginning makes complete sense. ESPECIALLY since none of us started out with a doctor Pokemon (even though that was an easy one to guess).

(In research, I saw that Stewie's Kangaskhan AND my Moltres came out before Articuno. So I need to rethink that one point.)

Shadyforce also pushed the lynch of PBuG (with mathcam) while I was pushing for mlaker.

I was writing earlier about the possible Drowzee kill, and trying to figure that one out. I keep going back to Fletcher. He wouldn't vote on PBuG (FOSing him to "avoid quick Mafia lynching"). He wouldn't vote on Stewie towards the middle of day two.

Stewie: Vote on PBuG but only after his slip-up about initial Pokemon and his "go scum" comment.

Still trying to figure out where mathcam got the idea to recruit Chansey from.

I've almost got Stewie cleared mentally. In order for him to be scum, he would have had to have a partner in the Drowzee kill, AND there would have to be a third partner for the Ghastly kill. Mathematically it doesn't add up. Does that make sense? Night two, there are two Rockets left. One has to sleep mlaker so Drowzee can kill him. One has to kill with Ghastly. Now, this goes out the window if Stewie has some other killing Pokemon rather than Drowzee, but I think if the Mafia can make three kills no matter what tonight, we've got no chance.

I'm to thinking that Fletcher is the best candidate. Psyduck doesn't make sense as an investigative Pokemon, coupled with the possibility of lying about Jigglypuff use, AND the voting patterns. That's where I'm at right now.

[mathcam]

I've been wondering more and more about Fletcher. He's been lurking the whole game and the argument "He could have killed (whoever it was) but didn't" only applies if he noticed that the lynch was only one vote away. Given the attention that Fletcher has put into this game, I'm not sure that's all that reasonable of an assumption. Even still, though, all this does is make him appear to me as the most likely person to be shadyforce's evil accomplice. If all goes well, I'll probably be looking his way tomorrow.

I too am not sure about where I got the idea of Chansey, but at one point, I did look through a list of all the pokemon. I might have just selected randomly from there.

Stewie is also pretty clear in my mind. And so is massive, except for this nagging suspicion based on the fact that he seems extremely unwilling to ever put a vote on shadyforce.

From my point of view, here's the most likely pairing in order of most to least suspicious:

Shadyforce/Fletcher
Shadyforce/Massive
Stewie/Fletcher
Shadyforce/Stewie
Fletcher/Massive
Stewie/Massive

Cam

[mathcam]

Hey! We're the most-posted-in mini ever. Someone might have already pointed this out, but perhaps not.

Cam

[Stewie]

I think that our best bet is to go after shadyforce right now. About fletcher, it would be a good idea if 2 or 3 of us could try to catch a psyduck. I'll certainly do it.

There's also the posiblility that there's 2 scum and one SK, and that fletcher is either of them, which would mean that he wouldn't off won if he lynched me.

[Stewie]

and by 2 scum I mean pbug and one more.

[massive]

I'm sorry, but I just can't wrap my brain around shadyforce right now. There's too many little things that nag both ways about him, and I just can't get a solid read on what I think. Every time I start to sway towards voting him, I find myself thinking that the things that are being tossed towards shady in terms of suspicion just aren't things I think he would do.

I mean, I watch for slip-ups. That's like the bread-and-butter of Mafia games. Like the one PBuG slipped into earlier this game. Slip-ups are one thing. Obvious gaffes of play are totally different. So either I'm overestimating shady's ability, or he's just innocent.

Right now, I think lynching Fletcher is the right call. I agree that the most likely pairing, if Fletcher is Rocket, is probably shady/Fletcher. Fletcher and I are the only two able to kill shady at this point, who haven't done so, and I know I'm innocent ... the problem is, Fletcher's not even making an attempt to disperse suspicion or point fingers - he just said "I'm not going to vote" a couple of times as if trying to let us know how he'd vote without actually doing it, meanwhile prolonging our own conversation and letting us talk ourselves in circles. I'll even move that direction:

vote Fletcher

but I want to be able to say that I think Stewie/Fletcher is as good a possibility as shady/Fletcher to me at this point.

Cam: Don't forget that your "one vote from lynch" theory only applies if Stewie is innocent, which we don't know yet.

Gah, this is gonna suck. I'm so totally dead in the morning.

[shadyforce]

I agree that Fletcher's failure to kill earlier might have been because he missed it and his lurking certainly isn't helping. The problem is bandwagoning a lurker in endgame is not very smart unless your quite sure they're scum and my suspicions lie elsewhere.

At least now I am absolutely convinced of massive's innocence. If he was scum it would be very easy to side with Mathcam and Stewie to get me lynched. And no scum who knew I was inocent would try as hard no save me. His behaviour very non-scummy.

Check the going away thread, unfortunately I may miss today's lynching. With that in mind, I ask one thing... Don't lynch me while I'm gone... lynch someone else!

If Mathcam and Stewie (2 active players) don't finish off Fletcher now that there is one vote on him, by the time I'm back I'll know Fletcher is one of the remaining scum.

[Fletcher]

I'm to thinking that Fletcher is the best candidate. Psyduck doesn't make sense as an investigative Pokemon, coupled with the possibility of lying about Jigglypuff use, AND the voting patterns. That's where I'm at right now.

If I were making-up that I have Psyduck would I say that it can investigate? No! My pm says that it is a one-shot investigation. And where did I lie about the use of my Jigglypuff? I don't know why I'm so suspicious.

the problem is, Fletcher's not even making an attempt to disperse suspicion or point fingers - he just said "I'm not going to vote" a couple of times as if trying to let us know how he'd vote without actually doing it, meanwhile prolonging our own conversation and letting us talk ourselves in circles. I'll even move that direction:

vote Fletcher

The reason I haven't voted yet is because I want to make sure that you guys are OK with me lynching him. I've asked a couple of times but have never really gotten a solid response. (except from Stewie)

And now, shadyforce, you're saying that if mathcam and Stewie don't kill me I have to be mafia?? All you're doing is setting up a scenario where you're clearing them and making it where I have to be mafia for very stupid reasons. That's enough for me to

Vote: shadyforce

.

[massive]

Well, that puts us in twilight and doesn't assuage any of my suspicions. Since we'll probably have a bit before mole shows up, do we want to discuss overnight strategies?

[Stewie]

I'll catch a psyduck, so should either mathcam or massive, to be sure. The other one might consider catching kangaskan.

I'll protect mathcam and myself. Mathcam, use own judgement to protect either massive or fletcher, or flip a coin, whichever you want.

Fletcher: investigate someone.

I know that someone here is lying about his/her role, but the above strategy is kinda foolproof, since we would get some information.

Also, I still think that shadyforce was scum.

[shadyforce]

*Sighs* No Rocket here, just a trainer. Oh well, Go town!

[massive]

There's no point in catching a Psyduck. Whatsoever. We can't use it tonight, only tomorrow night, and there won't BE a tomorrow night. Gah. In fact, there's probably no point in catching ANY Pokemon overnight since I can't think of any way there will be one more night unless the Mafia are REALLY dumb (which obviously they aren't, we lynched two townies in a row based on their "suspicions") ...