Newbie 1143 - Game Over

[Porochaz]

The person Im staying with has the same computer as me, so Im using his cable. So depending if I have free time, Ill read day 2 tomorrow/sunday. Im only really checking q's towards me and starting my own discussions atm. Thor, if you like you can answer the same question I asked before.

[racerman13]

Guys, does anyone have any questions for me?

[Gen_Wolf]

Are you scum racerman?

[Gen_Wolf]

But seriously, what areyour thoughts onhow Daybid and Saldyn played before you?

[Quilford]

Why didn't you say this in the first post? Saying "Not a random vote." pretty clearly indicated you find that player scummy for some reason or another.

Because I often see people use it to generate discussion and get people out of the RVS stage and wanted to give it a go myself.

Sounds fake.

At that point you hadn't mentioned anything of the sort. In fact only five days prior you had said

My sudden V/LA's are none of your business. I'm not going into it. If I had known I was going to disappear, I would have said.

Generally people know in advance when they'll be working triple the number of hours they usually would. I don't see it as very sudden.

Whatever; I'll drop it.

t's not true that "town wouldn't think about trying to find the other scum". Of course they would; associative tells are great evidence and saying "X is scum with Y" is far more convincing than just saying "X is scum", especially in an open setup with a two-man scumteam.

It took me a long time to figure out where you had drawn your conclusion on this post to the point of confusing me; you've focused on one part of what I was saying and completely blown it own of context. Congratulations:

Thomith seems to be being very specific about the 'their partner bit' almost as though he knows the person Effortless is voting for is scum.

THIS was the important part. I was suggesting that Thomith had slipped up and announced the person Effortless was voting for was his partner.

I was drawing my conclusion from here:

town wouldn't think about trying to find the other scum

and your wording here:

The partner bit seems like a slip to me, town wouldn't think about trying to find the other scum

strongly

suggests that the slip is that Thomith was thinking about trying to find the other scum when town wouldn't.

Scum like to blow things out of context.

Good to know.

I'm not seeing distancing from Thomith and Effortless, unless one of them flips scum. (i'm not suggesting we lynch them).

That's the definition of trying to find the other scum!

Incorrect. The definition of storing information to be used later at such a point when one of them had been lynched/killed as I clearly say in my post I wasn't suggesting lynching anyone.

You are saying "if

x

is scum,

y

is also probably scum".

Regardless

of when you intend to "use the information later", you are naming a possible scumteam. You are trying to find two scum.

I also take issue with the statement 'scum wouldn't draw attention to themselves like that so early in the game'. Scum wouldn't want to draw attention to themselves at any time, whether early game or not -- and scum don't purposely draw attention to themselves (unless they're WIFOMing). If they did, then why post? It would be defying your win condition.

Optimum scum play. GO. Actually this is quite interesting now I've found a recent scum newbie game of yours. You lurked through it as scum and yet here you say scum would never do that?

I'm saying scum

would

try their best to not draw attention to themselves.

Haylen, if I'm vocal in wanting you lynched, will you say it's unlikely I'm scum?

Well, if this is the content and evidence you're going to provide when being vocal about my lynch, then I would say you're pretty likely scum.

FoS Quilford

Yeah um this time, you can

actually answer the question

.

The last phrase pre-empts any possible attack.

Catch 22. You'd have attacked me for that phrase anyway. You're reaching.

That doesn't make pre-empting it not a bad thing.

This is very opportunistic. If she didn't 'know', why not read over Hazard's posts and then come to a conclusion?

Another misrep. I was saying I didn't know if he was being sarcastic or serious. I policy vote anybody who claims scum, it either discourages poor play or calls someones bluff. Now why don't you do the same?

Already been addressed; it's not like he's going to say 'oh yeah guys I am scum, sorry'.

Also opportunistic; you would think that with a 'PhD in Newbie', Haylen would realise that both town and scum can fall prone to forgetting that roles are randomised.

Taken out of context again. Randomization is not the point I was making. Go back and re-read.

If you read the original post (http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p3344378), you can tell that Daybid is clearly unaware that roles are randomised. You then

selectively quote

a part of his post to take it out of context and cast him in a scummy light.

"I thought he was sheeping everyone in the game but actually he wasn't. ... ... ... I'm going to vote him because I don't like his reactions.

HUZZAH! Quil's actually taken something I said, read it and hasn't tried making any weird crap up about it.

How long have you been playing on this site, Quil? Are you seriously telling me that you don't see the logic in voting somebody for how they've reacted to the tiniest bit of pressure?

I'm seriously telling you that, on it's own, "not liking" reactions is not enough to warrant a vote.

Someone else said I had an indepth analysis on them, their opinion not mine.

aaaaaaaand you didn't bother to correct them. Naturally.

No, the definition of fluff is "To make (something) appear fuller and softer, typically by shaking or brushing it: "I fluffed up the pillows"." Fluffing in the context of Mafia applies to inserting unnecessary content in a post in an effort to make it look like your posting more. Definitions aside, it's pretty clear what Gen is referring to and Haylen transforms it into a semantics argument, in which she basically admits to not scumhunting or generating discussion:

I'm going to pretend this part never happened because

it's going to be some sort of blown up thing again.

I'm clearly wrong

FTFY

This contradicts with an earlier statement of Haylen's, which she uses in an attempt to build a case on Gen:

Not getting this. Not sure I want to. Will grit my teeth and ask 'how are those two posts in any way similar?'

In the quote from your Post #517 you WIFOM. In your post #413 you criticise someone for posting WIFOM, saying "it didn't really need to be said".

Over-reacted? Seems to be part of his playstyle, and nobody likes being bandwagoned as town.

Blowing up because somebody asks everyone for their opinions on that person isn't overreacting?

Quote me? I don't know what you're referring to.

racerman13

, will you please come and vote for Haylen with me?

[Haylen]

Point One: Any particular reason why it sounds fake? Because your accusation here sounds fake to me: no reasons given, anybody could just turn round and refute someones entire defence by saying 'That sounds fake.' Hence why I don't like this.

strongly suggests that the slip is that Thomith was thinking about trying to find the other scum when town wouldn't.

Did you read the whole post because I explained myself at the bottom of that paragraph. Picking and choosing = scummy.

You are saying "if x is scum, y is also probably scum". Regardless of when you intend to "use the information later", you are naming a possible scumteam. You are trying to find two scum.

Actually, I'm saying: 'If X of scum, then Y may be scum under certain circumstances and conditions.' No probably about it. I'd planned of looking into what I said later on in the game, whether I decided to carry it on regardless of X flipping scum. I would never just decide I wanted to lynch something based on that. So no, I'm not calling scum based on that.

Yeah um this time, you can actually answer the question.

Answer still stands.

That doesn't make pre-empting it not a bad thing.

Not the point, you're reaching.

Already been addressed; it's not like he's going to say 'oh yeah guys I am scum, sorry'.

Doesn't stop it from being a misrep.

If you read the original post (viewtopic.php?p=3344378#p3344378), you can tell that Daybid is clearly unaware that roles are randomised. You then selectively quote a part of his post to take it out of context and cast him in a scummy light.[/qupte]
Again, randomizing is not the point I was making. Also, hypocrite.

I'm seriously telling you that, on it's own, "not liking" reactions is not enough to warrant a vote.

You're also telling me that voting somebody for claiming scum is opportunistic.

Of course i didn't bother correcting them on the indepth analysis thing, it wasn't important. Stop reaching. It's scummy.

[quote="Haylen"

No, the definition of fluff is "To make (something) appear fuller and softer, typically by shaking or brushing it: "I fluffed up the pillows"." Fluffing in the context of Mafia applies to inserting unnecessary content in a post in an effort to make it look like your posting more. Definitions aside, it's pretty clear what Gen is referring to and Haylen transforms it into a semantics argument, in which she basically admits to not scumhunting or generating discussion:

I'm going to pretend this part never happened because

it's going to be some sort of blown up thing again.

I'm clearly wrong

FTFY

Did you honestly think you would be able to make a case of such wrongness and scumminess and think you would get away with it? You talk about semantics? The majority of your argument is some pointless semantic debate. Most of it is reaching, the rest are misreps and taking things entirely out of context. When did I admit to not scumhunting ect? Because during that argument I chose a post of mine that was considered fluff and pointed out where every bit of content was. Btw, this is scumhunting, reading your posts and throwing them back at you, same as what I did with Gen_wolf.

None of post 517 was WIFOM. Fancy pointing out where it is if it exists?

I wasn't refering to you in that last quote.

Lizk

I haven't been posting much because I'm not really sure yet what to say or post, not because i'm scum. since it's the first day

I would never expect a newbiescum to actually tell us in advance that they can't gain much during day one and that they're inactive because of this. If this was the reason for her general inactiveness, then I don't see it as scummy because she was replaced out. Scum would have tried to lurk out as much as possible and join in again for a bit later. Point is she wasn't trying to avoid attention.

Genuine attempts at scumhunting, they don't seem to look made up at all. If Lizk wasn't able to scumhunt very well then there's no way she would have been able to fake it this well.

Ignoring RVS you have changed your vote 7 times!

I've never seen newbie scum make even a weak attempt (like this) at vote count analysis, especially one that claims to be unable to scumhunt properly.

Doesn't seem to have copied anybody attacks ie sheeped or been opportunistic which are traps newbie scum often fall into. Everything she says seems to fit in with what is going on in thread at the time, no misrepping, no fluff. Holds a steady foot on accusations she makes and doesn't stumble over them - newbie scum would have either backed down if the bandwagon wasn't going anywhere or faded into the background when other players started joining the wagon. All votes match her suspicions.

There are many many more reasons for her being town then are are for her being scum, which were quite weak.[/quote]

[Haylen]

Guys, does anyone have any questions for me?

Fancy going through the thread properly and scumhunting?

[Haylen]

I think Haylen is scum for not being able to keep her thoughts straight. Haylen keeps contradicting Haylen's self. Haylen seems really scummy, scummy enough for me to put a vote on Haylen. (no, I don't know Haylen's gender. Lol.)

Any evidence provided for this?

[Quilford]

Point One: Any particular reason why it sounds fake? Because your accusation here sounds fake to me: no reasons given, anybody could just turn round and refute someones entire defence by saying 'That sounds fake.' Hence why I don't like this.

It sounds fake because you actually bothered to dig up a reason for it.

Like how in a recent Newbie game I correctly assumed someone was town from their cop breadcrumb because they didn't put much effort into it. You're trying too hard.

strongly suggests that the slip is that Thomith was thinking about trying to find the other scum when town wouldn't.

Did you read the whole post because I explained myself at the bottom of that paragraph. Picking and choosing = scummy.

Your own poor wording = your fault.

You are saying "if x is scum, y is also probably scum". Regardless of when you intend to "use the information later", you are naming a possible scumteam. You are trying to find two scum.

Actually, I'm saying: 'If X of scum, then Y may be scum under certain circumstances and conditions.' No probably about it. I'd planned of looking into what I said later on in the game, whether I decided to carry it on regardless of X flipping scum. I would never just decide I wanted to lynch something based on that. So no, I'm not calling scum based on that.

No you're not, you absolute

liar

:
"I'm not seeing distancing from Thomith and Effortless, unless one of them flips scum."

You are

clearly

stating that if one of Thomith and Effortless is scum, the other is more likely to be scum too.

Yeah um this time, you can actually answer the question.

Answer still stands.

No, it

doesn't

. I ask you "if I'm vocal in wanting you lynched, will you say it's unlikely I'm scum?" and in your reply you don't answer "yes" or "no", you go off on some tangent where you introduce factors unrelated to the question. I'll ask you one again, and I want a clear "yes" or "no" in your answer:

If I'm vocal in wanting you lynched, will you say it's unlikely I'm scum?

That doesn't make pre-empting it not a bad thing.

Not the point, you're reaching.

You're using the idea that what I said is a Catch-22 to remove yourself from the fact that you pre-empted what you said. It's worse that you pre-empted it because it looks like you're scum covering yourself in advance.

Already been addressed; it's not like he's going to say 'oh yeah guys I am scum, sorry'.

Doesn't stop it from being a misrep.

It's not a goddamned misrep. You're admitting that "not knowing whether he is being sarcastic or serious" is a stupid thing to do because he's not going to claim scum, I'm pointing out that there are better things you could've done to ascertain whether he was scum or not.

If you read the original post (viewtopic.php?p=3344378#p3344378), you can tell that Daybid is clearly unaware that roles are randomised. You then selectively quote a part of his post to take it out of context and cast him in a scummy light.[/qupte]
Again, randomizing is not the point I was making. Also, hypocrite.

Okay so instead of leaving it ambiguous like the scum you are, how about telling me what the point you were making is, because I am clearly confused.

I'm seriously telling you that, on it's own, "not liking" reactions is not enough to warrant a vote.

You're also telling me that voting somebody for claiming scum is opportunistic.

I am, because the "somebody" is not going to admit to being scum and there are better ways to determine whether someone is scum or town, like reading their posts. e.g. when I played on EpicMafia I commonly claimed scum (as town) and "named" my "buddies". It would always catch scum because town would react while scum would slide onto my bandwagon.

Of course i didn't bother correcting them on the indepth analysis thing, it wasn't important. Stop reaching. It's scummy.

More like you didn't bother correcting them because it lent you townpoints.

Stop throwing around these buzzwords like "reaching" and "misrep" in order to lend your case status. "It's scummy."

Did you honestly think you would be able to make a case of such wrongness and scumminess and think you would get away with it? You talk about semantics? The majority of your argument is some pointless semantic debate. Most of it is reaching, the rest are misreps and taking things entirely out of context.

How about all those points you didn't respond to?

Because during that argument I chose a post of mine that was considered fluff and pointed out where every bit of content was. Btw, this is scumhunting, reading your posts and throwing them back at you, same as what I did with Gen_wolf.

You're clearly playing on semantics here because Gen was calling you out on fluffing, and instead of pointing out where you have made good content, i.e. scumhunting, (which is clearly what he was looking for) you point out where you have made any content just to make him wrong.

None of post 517 was WIFOM. Fancy pointing out where it is if it exists?

Most people seemed to think you were town, attacking you would have brought me right out into the open if I was scum ESPECIALLY if you flipped town, so that suggestion makes no sense.

WIFOM.

[Quilford]

oh goddamnit tag fail

[Flameaxe]

Votecount 2.8

Gen_wolf [4] (Thor665, Lunitawolf, Haylen, Quilford)

Thor665 [2] (effortless, racerman13)
Haylen [1] (Gen_wolf)

Not Voting [1] (Porochaz)

Deadline:

September 22nd, 9PM EST
Prodding: Racerman13, Porochaz, Thor665, Lunitawolf, effortless

With eight players alive, it will take five votes to lynch and four votes to no lynch!

[Gen_Wolf]

Deadline is lurking! We need activity people!

[Quilford]

Five prods? Are you kidding me?

We need a lynch before this game is abandoned.

[Porochaz]

Apologies, I was away, (I did say) and Im now full of the cold. I do plan to get to this today though, let me update my own games first.

[Quilford]

Another good reason to hammer Gen_Wolf: his VT claim.

[Porochaz]

Prodding TravisB and Ozzie72.

I cant remember who I replaced but I might be one of these, but combined with the no kill which I think is probably just as likely as a successful block, these 2 immediately jump to the front of the scum queue

Hullo,

If this slot is already voting than I'll currently endorse that vote because, hey, I like do different things and watch the shocked reactions.

"I like to do different things so I will keep doing what my predecessor does."

[Porochaz]

Long post where I speak a lot.

I dislike this a lot, a lot of your reads are fairly superficial and I disagree with a large amount of your assessment in all of them, my last post was a joke but Im not liking you much as of now.

[Porochaz]

Also I think my opinion coincides with Haylen, lurking isn't a scumtell, active lurking is, but its not a good one, but it has to be dealt with.

Too many buts.

[Porochaz]

snip

I hate these new quote tags.

Anyway, lets talk about you. You are like the annoying kid in class with his hand in the air going "I JUST WANT TO BE LIKED", its interesting, in an earlier post in day 2 I got the feeling you made a decision on a players alignment just because the tide was turning that way, but you did it so blatantly that it upset me a bit. However you are pawing at Teacher Haylen, which is refreshing as I get the feeling she is getting a free ride. Which is bad, Haylen is a good player, she may act like "HELLO NEWBIES, HUGGLES!" but she will rip off your head with her teeth as soon as she has grabbed you in her vice like grip. But again, I actually haven't seen anything suspicous about Haylen and this post is about Gen. Again the way you approach her, its very "going through the motions". I don't feel the belief behind it. Which worries me.

[Porochaz]

I apologise Im going to be making 1000's of posts.

This is a terrible reply, and actually it wasn't needed, because the case was so bad in the first place.

The other is effortless, and although he has answered questions well recently, we did suspect him on day 1 and he was close to a hammer! Maybe we were right first time round?

vote: effortless

This is shockingly bad logic. Not only is it a bad idea to go with "maybe we were right yesterday" but I wasn't even that close to a hammer. I had 3 votes and it was early in the day when people are less likely to go through with a lynch. Finally it was for something that YOU thought wasn't suspicious.

You might be showing that there is hypocrisy in gen_wolfs posts here but it comes as an after thought when reading firstly, I've seen lynches happen on page 1, so don't get too cocky, star fox. However your so blase (there is an accent on that e) about it, "I had 3 votes, it was early on, I knew I was unlikely to be lynched" is an absolutely terrible reaction. I would vote this right now, if I wasn't convinced this is who I replaced.

[Porochaz]

Out of curiosity (whatever else I think of her slot) I agree *strongly* with Lunita that there is one scum in Thor, Lizk, Lunita, Gen Wolf, and Effortless. Do you understand the logic we're using to draw that particular list of scum? Also, with that as an idea do you have any particular scum reads from that group?

Yeah well I think there are 2 scum in this group

Quilford Ozzie72
Gen_Wolf
Porochaz lizk000
effortless
Lunitawolf TravisB
racerman13 Daybid saldyn
Thor665 Hazard with a Glove (SE)
Haylen (IC)

With 8 players in the game, there is more than likely going to be one scum in a random list of five names, your making superficial statements again thor.

[Porochaz]

End of page 18,

vote thor

for what was said before and this exchange...

Also, wow, one entire Day and it's Lunita and me.

Hey, Lunita, wanna sheep me a bit and be promoted to obv. town just for participating?

Also, wow, one entire Day and it's Lunita and me.

Hey, Lunita, wanna sheep me a bit and be promoted to obv. town just for participating?

Yay, I love promotions!

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Gen_Wolf

Now that I'm confirmed town everyone should follow me from here on out.

I'll go back through the thread too to give you more thoughts on Gen and address effortless/Lizk.

[Porochaz]

Gen_Wolf, how old are you? On a scale of 1 to 10, how mature would you say you are? I ask because I think it would help me work out your alignment.

Thor is scum and townie looking lunita is a blind sheep and its very upsetting to see her being led astray.

Haylen looks like she's lurking...

[Quilford]

Porochaz summarise all that in a reads list pretty please

[Porochaz]

snip

Wow, you went right on the crazy defensive train there, Haylz. (Haylz makes you sound chavvy, I won't be saying that again) Its not a good look for you.

Quilford entered the game well but his statements of fact whilst townie aren't actually fact, he's drawing on experience but the lesson that should be learned is a lot of things in this game depend on so much, the situation, the player, even the time of day. A perfect scum player will play exactly like town. So making definitive statements about things can lead you into trouble.

I like effortless's line of question, you have my town prize at the moment.

Post edit - No, sorry, I saw your large post and using the dyslexic excuse I could hardly get through it, with multi-quote now, it means there is no real reason why I should confine everything to one post. I comment as I read. I can't maintain posts in my head (although Im trying harder as can be seen by this post), my posts aren't overly long, so should be okay to read. I find them better now, than quote stripes. I know it can be annoying, hell, mastin and fate do it all the time and it winds me up no end. I just plan to do this for my reread and then I'll post a bit better when Im caught up.