The StarCraft II thread
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Ellibereth wrote:at least he got code s
Nothing like skipping Code A entirely. Money was on DRG to get that slot, some were even saying Gom was conspiring to let him have it by sending Boxer (supposedly out of shape) and MVP (already Code S). Too bad MMA is too damn baller for that.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Otolia wrote:The Code A spot will probably be given to Ret, Sjow, Slush and Kiwikaki (Idra and Sheth will refuse) and Naniwa and Huk already have code A/S.
Otherwise it's still the same problem. The bracket system is very rewarding for players who are getting spanked in pools ... So retarded ><
Ret was in Korea and left. I doubt he'll take the slot.
AGar wrote:Sooo MVP and Bomber invited to Raleigh.
MMA probably won't get an invite again, (it'll likely be 2 Code A/Code B players now). Hopefully SlayerS can send him out - he's seeded 2nd in MLG now.
MVP getting invited bumps Sheth into the pools now, since MVP was the 8th seeded player after Anaheim. coL will probably try and send DRG, try and get him more points for NCs, since right now he has to fight through the Open Bracket.
I thought I heard any "invited" players points don't count toward NC, that they only count if they come on their own dime. And MMA can't be invited back. Can only recurring invite someone if they won the competition.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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I got Gold. It was annoying not being able to watch both streams in high quality. Sundance said it would be fixed by Raleigh. Every time the other stream came on I'd get interrupted and it was bothering me. So far though its not enough to get me mad. If it happens in Raleigh though I'm going to get annoyed.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Whoever said I was on a site? I've done freelance work all through college, but I don't have time to work full or part time for an organization with law school. Doesn't matter though, they only give press passes to big organizations basically :/.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Reck, behave. Cursing isn't needed. DeathNote, although his tone was wrong, his message was correct. Please head over to a thread in the Mafia section of the site, or the replacements thread.
The General Discussion forum is generally for non-mafia related talk, and just because your game has something similar to a topic doesn't give you permission to spam that thread with advertisements. You've said it once, we got it then. Continuing to post about it is in bad taste. Further continuing after being told this will be met with me contacting the general discussion mods and asking for a special favor. Got it?Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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hasdgfas wrote:Kinetic wrote:Hascow?
http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments ... _2/c2fnl5u
yep, but I told you that elsewhere.
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hasdgfas wrote:it's ok guys, I downloaded the starter edition overnight since it's free. Then we'll see whether I actually play it or just watch.
I'll be honest that I watch more than I play. Its worth it to buy it though if only for the campaign and some one-off custom games. The customs aren't as good yet as they have been previously, but that is mainly because of the bad search system.
If you want to play some games (you'll only be able to play as terran from starter) I play Protoss at around a Plat level.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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FRIENDS! Upvote this: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comme ... e_started/Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Love this game I just played.
Guy cannon rushes me, then BMs me, so instead of just gging and leaving, I send all my probes out of my base and build a new base elsewhere. Eventually he found it, but right before he won he dropped and I got the win.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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In post 1385, AGar wrote:In post 1382, xRECKONERx wrote:WHAT IS THIS TALK OF HAVING FUN WITH STARCRAFT II
4v4 TL Open.
SATURDAY.
NOON EST.
WE NEED 1.
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Both Zerg and Protoss are underdeveloped. Terran is pretty ok, although I'm sure there are some things that could be added, for the most part the Terran tech tree is pretty solid. For Terran there just needs to be adjustments in damage/health/etc, but they don't need any more units unless some are taken out. I could see the reaper, hellion, raven, and banshee removed for new units.
Protoss is a little better off, but I really think Zerg is underdeveloped right now and could use some love.
Zerg need something in tier 2 that isn't horrible and Ultras need to be fixed somehow. Muta are too situational, Infesters are good, but unless you're Destiny they're best as support, Corrupters are horrible even as anti-air and are just an extra cost for Broodlords, and hydras suck off creep, and on creep they're decent.
Zerg early game seems "ok" right now, and I use quotations on that because it isn't bad. It could be a little more rounded out, maybe another unit that comes out of the spawning pool or roach warren (or perhaps combine the roach warren and baneling nest so both are produced from the same building, that would be interesting). Actually, that is my first change, combine the baneling nest and roach warren into one building. Lets call it Arachnid Pod or something. Make it the same cost as the Warren (150/0), and make it have a 20 second upgrade for 50/50 that allows zerglings to morph into banelings. Also, I might be willing to entertain Queens becoming massive units.
Tier 2 for Zerg is just horrid, as I said before. What do Protoss have for Tier 2? Immortals, Obs, Warp Prisms, Phoenix, Void Rays. Terran? Hellions, Siege Tanks, Ghosts, and Terran 2.5 is just as strong with Valks, Ravens, Banshees, Medivacs and Thors. What does Zerg have? Hydras, Infesters, Mutas and Corrupters. Bleh bleh bleh.
First, zerg needs some kind of siege unit of any kind in tier 2. Lurkers don't really fit, nor Brood Lords. I'd almost be willing to drop Ultras into Zerg Tier 2 right now because I think it would raddically change the meta game and I think they'd be useful here. Actually, I like that, Ultras to Tier 2. That would solve a lot of the Zerg issues in Tier 2. Yes, this would be a strong change of the meta, and ultras might need to be toned down a bit (perhaps make their frenzied ability a trainable ability, and maybe make them have a damage upgrade like chit plating and lower their base damage to compensate) but I'm looking more at units and the feel of the race and less at numbers right now.
Next, Zerg Tier 3, which consists pretty much of Broodlords now that Ultras have been dropped down to Tier 2. I think we need a new caster unit. Either something like the SC1 Queen or the SC1 Defiler. I'm sure there are MANY zergs that would love to see the SC1 Defiler in SC2. Maybe add Lurkers to tier 3, but I'm unsure they fit.
For Protoss, a lot of toss issues revolve around the incredibly strong gateway units. This is what makes PvP so weird and hard to balance. I loved Day 9's comment during MLG: "In PvP the best strategy used to be 4gate, but then blizzard nerfed the 4gate timing, making to take longer, so now the best strategy in PvP is a slightly slower 4gate." And that really is the truth of the matter. When I play PvP, either I lose to a zealot rush (sometimes), or I crush them with 4 gate. If I 4 gate my win % is something like 80% against other Protoss. And gateways are strong into the end game with templar tech, or great fodder for robotics tech.
If anything, I really think Protoss needs to be completely revamped in HotS, but I doubt we'll see the overhaul from the top down that is needed. If Zerg needs more units, Protoss needs different mechanics.
First: Warping in is FUN AS HELL. But balancing it is fucking torture. The fact of the matter is that a pylon on the other side of the field makes it possible for a protoss to instantly reinforce, which no other race can do even half as good. And it is available so early that it makes early pushing much stronger.
Frankly, this needs to be reigned in a LOT. My solution is something like: units cannot be warped in that are not X units away from the Nexus until a Twilight Council is on the field. When a Twilight Council is on the field, then any pylon can be used. Or, better yet, only Warp Prisms can be used for long distance warp-ins, and only pylons within X of nexus can be used to warp in (something liberal so that you can warp in anywhere in your base, but not very far out of it).
For Protoss higher tiers, I think for right now it looks OK. I would be interested in a new higher tier alternative, either in the Twilight Council itself, or move the Warp Prism to the Stargate and drop something new in the Robotics, but I don't think it is too bad right now.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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In post 1420, TheButtonmen wrote:In post 1419, Ellibereth wrote:sc2bw is so balanced.
Clearly you weren't playing it back when seige tanks dealt 140 dmg.
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In post 1460, TheButtonmen wrote:DRG vs Thorzain game 2 from DreamHack Valencia Invitational was oddly Brood Waresque.
Thorzain is quite patient.
Game 4 my god!Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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There are certain players that can play that well with practice.
Idra (although he is slumping), Huk, Select among Americans
Nani, Thorzain, Morrow, Dimaga have all shown moments of brilliance and can show them again among Europeans.
I think the scene will always have a larger percentage of Koreans among the top, but I'd like to think eventually it will get to the point where the Foreign scene competes pretty well. Right now the Foreignfanscene is much better for SC2.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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In post 1465, Otolia wrote:On another level, Complexity Gaming are fucking assholes, picking up Stephano overnight without letting his team do the news first was VERY rude. How is that hard to understand for Americans.
I had to actually search REALLY hard to find any "drama" about this. Frankly,the drama is coming from "xeris" (aka, the asshole who basically thinks of himself as on par with the god of e-sports, is responsible for the odd tournament structure of the NASL, is a manager on Fnatic at team that has no stake at all in this, and who is known among the community as a dick).
CoL picked up an un-contracted player who had expressed interest in moving on from a team that made it abundantly clear they only were uninterested in any international event. As the move was very known within the community (hell, I even heard about it before the announcement) CoL announced it as soon as everything was finalized.
How hard is it for non-Americans to understand that "rude" in business means virtually nothing. Some people refer to "rudeness" or "disrespect" and stir up crap when they are just unhappy with the decisions grown men make. I haven't heard anything from Mill themselves, but everyone stirring up drama needs to grow up.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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In post 1467, Otolia wrote:Thanks for proving my point Kinetic. Respect is something related to culture. And there are differences between the French and the Americans. Respect means maybe nothing to you and that's your call but it doesn't mean it is invalid for everyone. Money rules in the US, traditions rule in France. It is time to widen your horizon.
And I am impressed you even know Millenium ... But you are wrong about the international events, it is a matter of cost-efficiency (MLG being the utter fooltrap it is) not interest.
Oh and Xeris was just defending the point I made, which I am surprised you didn't see (since you obviously read TL), it has nothing to do with drama. It is just correctly expressed criticism (at least it was in TL, I just rage here )
EDIT : And yes, I rage here because I don't want to get banned on TL [redacted]
EDIT 2 : I'll make an update post after I get the news from [M]
I love the blanket statements. I can make them too. Whenever anyone visits France, despite the Americans who the French can thank for not having to speak German, the French act like self-important assholes. Hey that was fun. -.-
I never said respect means nothing, but you're getting butt hurt over nothingin this particular situation. Mill. was holding Stephano back, he was not under contract (and I'm assuming not under salary either), Mill refused to send him to international tournaments, recruit players to help him practice, etc etc etc. He moved on. No one said anything bad about Mill, not one said they were a bad team, but their goals didn't align with Stephanos. Enough said. Complaining about "respect" is meaningless because it simply sounds like you're trying to make something out of nothing. Your only "fact" is they announced it at a certain time, but you don't even have any evidence that this wasn't completely expected to happen as soon as it was finalized and Mill knew that. The only "respect" you care about is one of your favorite players is no longer on the same team. Big deal.
Ithoughtthat may have been you, but frankly, you're the only one (besides Xeris, but you know how I feel about him) mentioning anything about Respect, or how Mill. was disrespected here. Frankly, here and there, you are the only one saying anything about it (save Xeris). If Mill said something, maybe we'd have an issue, but even then some peoples need to get over it.
Maybe I'm overreacting and not seeing your side, but frankly I've seen this over and over again, and constantly the "big bad americans" are being painted as the bad guys, and that just isn't so. No one forced Stephano or anyone else to do anything. Mill had plenty of time before everything was finalized, but they sat on their hands and were "surprised".
If you want to take nationalities out of this, I'm ok with that as well. CoL made a move that may have been "disrespectful" to one company. Fine. I don't agree, but be that as it may, that is all this is. This isn't an international incident. This isn't the Americans declaring war on the French (or the Koreans). CoL had to make a statement as soon as everything was final or face a situation like the one EG faced with Puma. And if you read everything that happened after that fiasco, you'd probably realize that although EG may have stumbled, it was blown way out of proportion from what it really was.
Edit Note: Ironic that you say traditions rule, and then widen your horizon. Isn't it the other way around, don't you widen your horizons by breaking with "tradition"?Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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In post 1471, Otolia wrote:Nah, the Americans thing is a trope I used whenever I wanna pissed someone's off in MS. Pretty efficient I should say though it makes me look like a douche, which is fair I guess. I was 'just' raging.
I can tell you Mill isn't happy about how it turned out. Stephano was supposed to leave the team today - after his TV show - and join coL whenever he wanted afterwards. He only blossomed during the Summer; that's 4 months. I knew this kid when he played WC3 and we, his fans for more than 3 months, felt like he deserved to go honorably not having to comply to a new regimen even before he could say himself to his fans that he was leaving. coL forced his and Mill's hands by announcing it just after the deal was sealed, it was a commercial move because he is more famous than all of their players except the MVP one's. Whereas it was known for a long time, I don't know; LwL (the manager) probably knew for a long time but I'm not informed of that kind of thing inside.
Aside from the form, it's a dumb move because Millenium was racking up money to send him abroad and he put them in a difficult spot. He was too greedy otherwise he would have been a member of mouz who recruited biGs instead of him. And since the team leagues are overall very poorly organized - EGCL V was a total mess, with admin not showing up on time and not distributing penalties when due - it isn't worth it to keep a player like him when he wants too much money - which is what he wants.
PS : There are still a lot of differences about how money and companies relations are handled in France and the US. Even in science this kind of thing happen and god knows most scientist only cares about their work. Some just only care about the money however ...
PS 2 : I speak German too :p
First, while mouz is a fine team, and I remember them from the WC3 days, CoL is a major market international team. Some people don't feel the CoL/MVP deal is a big deal, but it is. Not to mention CoL is in more games than just SC2 and that brings stability. mouz just doesn't have that.
Frankly, while I agree money isn't the only thing, saying it is unimportant and someone should just be happy to play is bullshit. I know that is not exactly what you said, but this is their job. Selfishness and greed is good as long as it is not taken to extremes. In order to survive, we as a species has to be selfish. We survive because we selfishly feel we are more important than the bacteria in the air we breath, the animals and plants that we eat, and all the habitats we take over to raise our off-spring in. If he can make more money, and has more opportunity, with another team, he has every right to go for it instead of waiting for the maybe. [M] has stated they intend on focusing on France and forsaking the international scene. That's why the lost ToD recently too.
BTW, not sure if you followed wcreplays, but for a while I went by the name Kyuubi on there and did some casting back in the day.
PS: Not surprising you know German. I'm jealous i wish i knew more languages than English, but remember the only reason France isn't a German colony is because of red-white-and blue. Although I suppose if we're being fair if it wasn't for the French Blockade at Yorktown then perhaps the American Revolution wouldn't have been won in our favor.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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In post 1479, Otolia wrote:The last word of this story is Stephano stays on Millenium.
That's why you don't force people's hands.
No, that isn't the last word. If this ends up being true Stephano just broke a major contract with a major team. Hope [M] can support him for the rest of his life because this is pretty huge...
I think [M] in the eleventh hour had second thoughts and may have just made a shitstorm where there wasn't one, and convinced Stephano that he should feel the same way. Good job, in [M]'s haste, they just turned a relatively minor player transfer into an international incident, lol. Isn't that what you just claimed CoL did?
This really grates me though, it screams of isolationism and prejudice.
Now, let's stop bringing ourselves down, lets stop thinking that a french player has to play abroad to succeed.
Then...
He will travel across the world to win many tournaments, from Asia to the USA.
Which is it? Did [M] re-think its isolationist philosophy, or is one of these a throw-away line?
Edit: Also, point in fact, while CoL never said a single bad thing about [M], I love how [M] decided to basically accuse CoL of everything under the sun in their Press Release. Especially when players are saying the only reasons Steph resigned was because of that "money" concept you abhor.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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In post 1481, Otolia wrote:The press release was in french, I did some part of the translation. It sounds very anti-americanistic (and it is) but it was intended to french fans and it plays on that. Not to be translated. I am as disgusted by the way Millenium handled the shit though. I am so pissed right now too. It will take months for M to get back into TL and be accepted. I wanted to nail a job with them to promote them with the english community. Now it's gonna be impossible ... Dumbasses ><
Concerning your two comments, it makes sense because they want to keep the huge roots in France with their webtv which is starting to kick in and send people to compete abroad. And if you never went to France you can't understand the enormous undermining complex that cripples people here. That's not a prejudice.
On the other hand, coL is threatening people and that isn't the right way to do things either.
While its true I've never been to France, I have heard many stories about how French companies cannot be competitive internationally because of their bureaucratic policies, and thus are cripplingly isolationist. But this is a circular argument (they are un-competitive because they are isolationist and they are isolationist because they are un-competitive). But those are larger issues that cannot be handled here. That is basically asking us to treat French teams/companies with kid gloves because their country can't get its shit together (economically). (Not saying France is all bad, but perhaps you'll agree they are hurting themselves with these views)
And they aren't threatening anyone. They're saying (quite rightly) "Hey! We had a contract... That isn't going away and we're going to see what we can do about that." This isn't about hurt feelings anymore. Once a contract is involved its a legal dispute. Threatening legal action is not a "threat", its more akin to exercising a right.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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In post 1484, Otolia wrote:In post 1483, Knight of Cydonia wrote:I wanted to nail a job with them to promote them with the english community.
Thanks for revealing the conflict of interest that only confirms the idiocy of your posting on this subject.
At first I was just venting about the way coL did their press release. It got way worse as the day went by and I'm not responsible for that. But yeah, they were a conflict of interest, however you should pay attention to what you say. I'm not lying to anyone, I just expressed my point of view which was obviously biased but you didn't need to read that statement to know that.
They're saying (quite rightly) "Hey! We had a contract... That isn't going away and we're going to see what we can do about that." This isn't about hurt feelings anymore. Once a contract is involved its a legal dispute. Threatening legal action is not a "threat", its more akin to exercising a right.
Also - this.
I have heard with the manager of Millenium, the contract wasn't legally 'binding' AT ALL. There were a number of loopholes and it wasn't a working contract. It was almost illegal work. Also Stephano wasn't augmented by staying with Millenium but he would have been if he was going to coL. coL never contacted directly Millenium
As a law student, and knowing that Jason Bass (or was it Lake?) of CoL is a lawyer, just based on the little I've heard I sincerely doubt the credibility of [M] Manager saying it "wasn't a legally binding contract". Even IF that were the case under French Law, that is not necessarily the law that governs in this case. Even IF it does, this is still a horrible blow to eSports in general. I players don't live up to their commitments, what sponsor is going to want to sign on to pay them? (This is not to be taken as legal advice). Forgive me if I don't take the word of the [M] manager that has basically proven with this that he can't be trusted.
In business, generally it is inappropriate to directly contact a competitor in such a situation, especially during a bidding war. This can be seen as collusion and is illegal in most countries as a matter of law. Call that "disrespectful" but it is a protection for the employee in such a situation.
What do you mean "augmented" (playing too much DX:HR) in this context. Do you mean harmed?Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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In post 1486, Otolia wrote:Then we will just agree to disagree. I trust LwL you trust coL. So be it. I don't think I am able to think straight now (I don't even think I did today ><) I won't comment on this anymore and should be spit upon if I do (won't change much :p)
augmented == paid more. Meaning he isn't staying for the money from his contract but for the benefits he will get with a formal french contract (including social protection and retirement pension)
On a more light-hearted note (because this is getting really depressing), I am psyched by the upcoming events : IPL, MLG Orlando, ESWC (I am going there !!!!!!), Blizzcon, IEM Gangzhou and NY. October is gonna be SO good.
Its not a matter of trust, its a matter of a horribly biased manager who guilted a young player with a signed contract into breaking that contract. Say what you will about its enforceability, that is a question for the courts, not the forums, that isn't the issue here. The issue is that you are basically agreeing with the isolationist stance of both [M] and by extension anyone who supports them is spouting and basically spitting in the face of anything that is not that. This doesn't just effect CoL. NO TEAM WILL DEAL WITH STEPHANO AFTER THIS DAY. Period. He is damaged goods now. NO TEAM WILL DEAL WITH [M] AFTER THIS. They better be happy with France because that is literally all they will ever be able to do. Players from [M] will now be stigmatized by this internationally. This does nothing but hurt [M] and French players.
Whether CoL gets their "just reward" or successfully sues [M] is irrelevant.
The tournaments look great. I'll be at MLG Orlando, but..
Stephano won't be. That or anything else outside of France. O wait...Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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In post 1489, AGar wrote:Kinetic since you're a law student, I'm going to throw this post your way to see if you may know the answer or not:
Random poster #2 on TL wrote:
Random poster #1 on TL wrote:
The last issue here is enforceability. If the contract is deemed legal by the Texan judge (which is very likely), and the French judge deems it an illegal employment contract (which is also very likely), then the contract will be null on French soil. What can be done if, and when, Stephano sets foot in the US, is another matter.
Since you seem to be one of the very few here with a basic idea what they are talking about (sorry about the borderline insult, but wtf why does everyone feels he is qualified to talk legal when obviously 99% of the users here have never, ever studied law in the details required to comprehend the situation in questions?):
Do you know if there are any bilateral agreements between France and the US regarding the enforcement of employment contracts? Because, even though I agree with you on the principal matter, if such agreements exist, those could possibly overrule the fact that French courts would have to apply French Law. In other words, if a bilateral agreement states that France has to enforce certain (!) US-court-decisions, then it doesn't matter at all if the contract violates French employment Law. All that the French court was allowed to verify in this case would be if the US decision is indeed a valid one (not forged/etc.).
I'm not sure, but seeing as it is France and we're America I can't see why we wouldn't. We're both major UN members, allies, etc. But then again, it isn't something that politicians would pressure France about, so I can't say it will definitely be enforced even if.
JDodge wrote:my guess would be that the jurisdiction for the contract is the jurisdiction of the employer
The contract states that the Choice of Law is Texas, and I'm sure Texas has jurisdiction based onBurger King(Yes, that's a case for non-lawyers. Its actually very famous too.) I figure CoL has Steph/Mill dead to rights for breach and tortuous interference based on the theory that Steph was an independent contractor and Mill convinced Steph to breach. I don't see Mill coming to Texas to defend though, so at best they'll get a default judgment over anything they want.
The real question is if they'll get the full faith and credit from France and if France will assist in enforcing the judgment. Despite what Mill says, I have a feeling they're going to get reamed by this both from a PR standpoint and a financial one. This sort of willful misconduct is looked down upon by many courts.
Disclaimer: This is not legal advice. I am not a lawyer. Any reliance upon the information here is misplaced and I am not responsible if you decide act on any of the information here. This is an uneducated, non-legal opinion, without any pertinent knowledge other than the little that has been released by the parties. Any or all of this may be wrong, and you should consult a lawyer if legal advice is needed.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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In post 1507, hasdgfas wrote:What I have figured out since buyingSCIIBlizzard Games. Custom maps > normal multiplayer
FTFYLarge Theme List Mod Emeritus
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In post 1510, Otolia wrote:I think Blizzard will incorporate more community maps in Season 4. At least I hope so.
O, that's cute.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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In post 1515, AGar wrote:Apparently I missed a shitstorm with IPL yesterday.
Truck hit a comcast poll, took out internet to Atlantic City. Delayed the start about 3-4 hours. The late games ended up mostly being coin flips as everyone who was guaranteed a spot in the final bracket didn't want to play it out. Idra forfeited all his matches after nearly falling asleep versus White Ra. Most of the open bracket ended in coinflips. Group C was decided almost exclusively by coinflip.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Idra declined a physics scholarship... and you think that's an insult? That is a horrible way to look at it. He pursued his dream instead of something he wanted to do as a back up and as a result, someone who wanted a scholarship but wouldn't have gotten one instead got a scholarship in physics. They don't just disappear you know...Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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In post 1556, Otolia wrote:You have to admit that it's a little bit annoying to see that someone who could be sustained to study for a real job choose an entertainment career instead. Most of my class lives with less than 700 euros pro month, which may seem like a lot but when transportation and lodging alone cost between 500 and 600 euros. I have monies problem but I can make it through while working part time, these guys are literally starving. I don't really condone what he did but maybe it's just me.
I'm sorry to hear that AGar, are you in a private university ?
Frankly, that argument can be used on so many people it isn't funny. And why does your definition of a "real job" matter? Frankly the whole argument smells of envy.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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In post 1560, Shanba wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... entpage=27
I, for one, welcome our new korean overlords.
We knew it was coming. We've been preparing. Soon, the Saiyans will arrive...Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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