Mini 1236: Classic Mafia - Game Over!

[Ryuu Link]

I just still feel really strange about a gunsmith role in a game called 'Classic Mafia'.

Hmm, that's actually a pretty decent point you're not making. Miller day-gunsmith is pretty out there (gunsmith itself is fine).

Unvote, vote: Xanatos

@CES: I've been making that point since he claimed, why the change of heart?

Bitches, please.

Miller Gunsmith. Once per Day (Yes, I asked too, it's not a mistake) I can investigate someone to determine if they have a Gun. Odysseus flagged as having No Gun, and the only false negative that I know of, barring SK, which given there was no unexplained non-shot kill last night, I'm assuming isn't here, is the Mafia Doctor, who can't perform the kill.

Given that Scum was killed last night, I doubt that there's a Mafia Doc, so I'm presuming Odysseus is clean.

Also, note to the Cop (The fact I'm Miller implies it, and you'll flag as a Has Gun to me..), don't claim unless you have a Guilty (Or I get a result on you). I'm exposed, but I can handle my results before Night phase. You don't have that luxury. :/

I'm likely dead tonight since the Doc's down, so my last action is up for majority decision. Direct me to someone you want checked, and it'll be done.

This is a ridiculous lie and I don't believe it for a second. And it certainly defeats the purpose of

Classic Mafia

. Also, Miller so we can investigate you and you will turn up scum, huh?

Odysseus, you're a fool if you believe that. Or his scum partner. My vote will not move today.

[VisceraEyes]

I didn't say I originally had the idea Link, merely that I've disbelieved DX's claim based on it since he claimed. What are YOUR thoughts on CES' sudden epiphany?

[Ryuu Link]

I don't know, it just seems odd to me that I've been making that same point since he claimed, and once I sound like I'm starting to believe the claim you suddenly agree with my point. *shrug*

It seems we're all just waiting with bated breath for DX' return for one reason or another...making for a dead-thread in the meantime. That's never good for town, no matter how you slice it. What are peoples' reads now that we have a flip or two or three? For my part, I'm growing more and more suspicious of TheFool. Take his latest post for example:

Or you just got our Vig/Cop to claim unnecessarily. Which in my mind means you could very well be scum along with Xanatos and this was a scheme to get As many town PR claims as possible. Just putting that out there in case nobody noticed.

Sewing the seeds of suspicion?

Honestly, Link is right (assuming Link...Ryuu tends to not capitalize iirc)...Hito's little 'plan' could have hurt us more than helped us. Why in the WORLD would that be 'sewing the seeds of suspicion'? Not saying that I agree that Hito could be scum (I'm getting a townie feeling from him myself) but I don't blame Link for thinking it's possible. Is FOOL trying to sew the seeds of suspicion?

1. Yeah, he doesn't capitalize or use particularly good spelling or grammar. Also, he's not likely to post without running it through me first, meaning it will always come out in his terrible excuse for English.

2. He's still out of town as near as I can tell. I haven't heard from him in a while because of his family emergency.

3. I also get a town feel from him, but I'm simply pointing out the possibility.

I didn't say I originally had the idea Link, merely that I've disbelieved DX's claim based on it since he claimed. What are YOUR thoughts on CES' sudden epiphany?

It was a joke, not an argument against you. I don't particularly know about CES and his reaction and I don't see a huge problem.

[VisceraEyes]

I took it as a joke...was only clarifying for anyone who didn't.

I don't see a huge problem either - I was just concerned about the timing, it was like he posted that in response to me appearing to start to believe DX' claim.

What about Fool? What kinda vibes you getting from that guy? I'm tired of waiting for DX (we waited for him for HALF of d1) so I'm trying to strike up conversations that DON'T revolve around possible outted PR's.

[Ryuu Link]

I took it as a joke...was only clarifying for anyone who didn't.

I don't see a huge problem either - I was just concerned about the timing, it was like he posted that in response to me appearing to start to believe DX' claim.

What about Fool? What kinda vibes you getting from that guy? I'm tired of waiting for DX (we waited for him for HALF of d1) so I'm trying to strike up conversations that DON'T revolve around possible outted PR's.

As I said, Lunita would have to be scum for me to think TheFool is at this point in time. Also, I realized something else about hito's plan that makes it bad. I think town is more likely to tell the truth about having a gun than scum. Scum can lie and say that they don't have a gun and if Xanatos says otherwise and his claim proves to be legit, they could just say they were a real PR and didn't want to claim, snce there's a chance they wouldn't be checked anyway. Town, on the other hand, seem more likely to be cooperative and every person who claims gun and isn't scum is in serious danger tonight and even people claiming no gun is dangerous because it's essentially the same as claiming VT, so those are people that the Mafia can decide not to kill. I really should have noticed it earlier, but I was pretty busy all day. All in all, this plan has the chance for a lot of negative consequences, far more than positive. I'm not sure if it was just poor execution or if there were deeper scum motivations behind it, but either way we can't do much about it now except hope for the best, but the Cop probably wouldn't be amiss checking hito tonight. Just saying.

[hitogoroshi]

I think town is more likely to tell the truth about having a gun than scum.

They're both pretty much 100% guaranteed to tell the truth because gunsmith guilities aren't definitive

seriously, if you were scum, would you do anything other than exactly what dry-fit did?

(also, viable lynches claiming gun no gun =! "people" as an ambiguous whole claiming gun-no gun)

[Ryuu Link]

I think town is more likely to tell the truth about having a gun than scum.

They're both pretty much 100% guaranteed to tell the truth because gunsmith guilities aren't definitive

seriously, if you were scum, would you do anything other than exactly what dry-fit did?

(also, viable lynches claiming gun no gun =! "people" as an ambiguous whole claiming gun-no gun)

If I were scum and there was no guarantee that Xanatos would search me, I'd completely claim no gun. Then, if he did search me and said I had a gun, I'd use the exact reasoning I just stated for why I hadn't claimed gun. And that's even assuming Xanatos is town. If he isn't town, I'd completely say no gun, since he has no reason to out me and even if he did out me, I could try to weasel my way out and get him lynched to show my "innocence". Like I said, I don't care for how this plan was executed at all.

[David Xanatos]

Sorry, was out drinking last night.

It was the Saturday(10th) I sent in my action, as I recall. Got it back the next day.

I have my results back for yesterday. How do you guys wanna do this? Should I name the person first so they can claim gun/no gun, or should I just completely out the result?

[VisceraEyes]

Sorry, was out drinking last night.

It was the Saturday(10th) I sent in my action, as I recall. Got it back the next day.

I have my results back for yesterday. How do you guys wanna do this?

Should I name the person first so they can claim gun/no gun

, or should I just completely out the result?

I think this is likely the best way to handle it, so we can determine if the person is telling the truth. If they tell the truth, one way or the other, we go from there. That's my vote, anyway. What do you guys think?

[Dry-fit]

I think town is more likely to tell the truth about having a gun than scum.

They're both pretty much 100% guaranteed to tell the truth because gunsmith guilities aren't definitive

seriously, if you were scum, would you do anything other than exactly what dry-fit did?

(also, viable lynches claiming gun no gun =! "people" as an ambiguous whole claiming gun-no gun)

That's assuming DX is town of course(as far as mafia telling the truth).

If you were town with a gun, would you do anything different than what I did? I know you'd love to see me fullclaim but it's best to avoid that as long as possible if I can.

What are peoples' reads now that we have a flip or two or three? For my part, I'm growing more and more suspicious of TheFool.

Fool is trying to do as little as possible while avoiding suspicion and not taking any real stands. Kind of reminds me of Alabaska J actually....

So.. your thought process hasn't evolved at all since post 180? Even though we're now over 200 posts later? Despite everything that happened since, I'm scummiest because I emphasized Ryuu's OMGUS vote? Eh.. that sounds like pretty weak scumhunting to me.

Why aren't you actively hunting?

Your emphasis of Ryuu's vote is still the scummiest thing that has happened in this game so far in my opinion. I haven't been actively scumhunting because you're my top suspect and you haven't been posting. Doesn't look like you've done much scumhunting today either.

@David: I don't see how it could possibly matter, so just do whatever.

[Lunitawolf]

Sorry, was out drinking last night.

It was the Saturday(10th) I sent in my action, as I recall. Got it back the next day.

I have my results back for yesterday. How do you guys wanna do this?

Should I name the person first so they can claim gun/no gun

, or should I just completely out the result?

I think this is likely the best way to handle it, so we can determine if the person is telling the truth. If they tell the truth, one way or the other, we go from there. That's my vote, anyway. What do you guys think?

I'd suggest that DX tell us the name of the person he investigated. Then, the group can decide which person they trust more: DX or person investigated. Then, whoever is trusted least goes first, followed by the other.

[Lunitawolf]

I think town is more likely to tell the truth about having a gun than scum.

They're both pretty much 100% guaranteed to tell the truth because gunsmith guilities aren't definitive

seriously, if you were scum, would you do anything other than exactly what dry-fit did?

(also, viable lynches claiming gun no gun =! "people" as an ambiguous whole claiming gun-no gun)

If I were scum and there was no guarantee that Xanatos would search me, I'd completely claim no gun. Then, if he did search me and said I had a gun, I'd use the exact reasoning I just stated for why I hadn't claimed gun. And that's even assuming Xanatos is town. If he isn't town, I'd completely say no gun, since he has no reason to out me and even if he did out me, I could try to weasel my way out and get him lynched to show my "innocence". Like I said, I don't care for how this plan was executed at all.

Granted this is my first experience outside of newbie power roles, but I think that scum would claim gun, for the same reason that scum would be likely to claim a power role over vanilla townie. You're more likely to lynch someone who you think is scum if they've claimed vanilla townie because the downside to being wrong about the person being scum is less than if the person is potentially a townie power role.

[Lunitawolf]

Also, for those of you who are want to measure The Fool's alignment off of mine, why?

I have no outside day connection with anyone. I understand you can't just take my word on that, so I ISOed Fool and myself to try to see what you were seeing: attempted buddying, perceived bussing, etc. and I don't see it. Yes, he voted me at one point. Yes, he unvoted me at one point. But I didn't see anything odd ... seemed like he was scumhunting to me and no different from other votes/unvotes on me. So why the perceived connection?

[Jase]

Oh! I forgot my reasoning for why a scum flip on one of DX/dryfit clears the other.

It goes like this. If they're both scum there's no reason to claim gun. If (under the plan) you were chosen to investigate your buddies claim you'd obviously not say they were lying. So if both CS and dryfit were scum dryfit would have probably claimed no gun.

Dryfit: Why wait on claiming? You say it's best to hold off on it but I don't see why.

[Jase]

EBWOP: I think DX should go all at once. We're more likely to catch DX out in a lie if he fake investigates a gun having town power role as no gun.

[hitogoroshi]

Yes, DX should claim his target and result immediately, without asking them first.

The decision point doesn't work when DX has guaranteed gotten one. No one will lie when asked to claim first. The only potential lie is if DX isn't a real gunsmith.

[Lunitawolf]

Yes, DX should claim his target and result immediately, without asking them first.

The decision point doesn't work when DX has guaranteed gotten one. No one will lie when asked to claim first. The only potential lie is if DX isn't a real gunsmith.

Okay, I'm on board with that plan. Just need to wait for DX then.

[David Xanatos]

Okay.

I'll announce the result, but not the player, yet. For a good reason.

I have discovered a weapon.

If there's anyone with a guilty conscience that'd like to own up, do so now. I'll wait for people to check in for it before I announce the target though.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

No rolefishing.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Also, no more stalling.

[Odysseus]

Okay.

I'll announce the result, but not the player, yet. For a good reason.

I have discovered a weapon.

If there's anyone with a guilty conscience that'd like to own up, do so now. I'll wait for people to check in for it before I announce the target though.

No.

You out eh fucking result now. No more town PRs are claiming, which by the way, is what Dry-Fit is. Mock me on this read if you want too, idgaf.


Out it DX, no more games.

[Lunitawolf]

Okay.

I'll announce the result, but not the player, yet. For a good reason.

I have discovered a weapon.

If there's anyone with a guilty conscience that'd like to own up, do so now. I'll wait for people to check in for it before I announce the target though.

So... you want anyone with a gun to step forward? Meh... that helps scum more than town. They have a chance to influence our lynch; we don't have the opportunity to influence their nightkill. And just handing them targets doesn't seem like a good idea.

VOTE: DX

[David Xanatos]

Far from it. Just wanted to avoid putting the Cop in a bad situation. If people prefer we take that risk, I'll reveal it now, but if Dry-Fit's the Vig, we still have a ~33% chance of hitting the Cop.*

Assuming 4:1 T/S ratio, which I believe is the norm.

PEdit: That's now 3 saying to reveal it now. So be it.

VisceraEyes has a gun.

[Odysseus]

Okay, lets do this.

vote Viscera

He already claimed no gun. If he flips town, DX is obviously lying and we lynch him tomorrow. No use vigging him tonight, it just wastes a shot. If you guys want, you can even vig me since I defended him so hard, it honestly doesn't bug me.

Though AJ<-> VE actions definitely make VE a possibility.

[Odysseus]

Also, quick note: either way this goes Link is probably town. He has pushed on both "CCs" way too hard to be scum. I was worried a bit because Scumhunter died and Scumhunter didnt seem like a big threat, and he was the only one heavily pushing Link, but it doesnt matter now I don't think. Link is likely town.