Open 337: Twin Trap (Game Over)


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Post Post #50 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:24 am

Post by Isa »

That's one early claim, and at L-2? Why did you claim?

I am not a fan of Neil's initial attack on Bv, but I dislike Bv's response even more. I'm eagerly awaiting the response from Bv, because in no way do I consider what Neil said to be "textbook scum play".

Also we have four players needing prods at the moment. No me gusta.

  • Votecount 1-3


    pinkfloyd
    - (2)
    Isa
    ,
    Thomas

    Isa
    - (1)
    pinkfloyd

    Collyer
    - (1)
    princesskdw

    Thomas
    - (1)
    BobbyDrakeIceman

    princesskdw
    - (1)
    Collyer

    bv310
    - (1)
    malpascp

    Neil1113
    - (1)
    bv310


    Not Voting:

    neil1113


    Notes

  • With
    9
    alive, it takes
    5
    to lynch
  • The deadline for Day 1 is Sunday October 9th, 12:00PM UTC
Last edited by SigmaEXE003 on Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:49 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Post Post #51 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:46 am

Post by neil1113 »

In post 50, Isa wrote:That's one early claim, and at L-2? Why did you claim?

I am not a fan of Neil's initial attack on Bv, but I dislike Bv's response even more. I'm eagerly awaiting the response from Bv, because in no way do I consider what Neil said to be "textbook scum play".

Also we have four players needing prods at the moment. No me gusta.


I wasn't attacking Bv initially, I was defending pink. I don't like stupid suspicion being cast. Stupid suspicion leads to stupid cases, which leads to stupid lynches and very rarely are those lynches scum on the end. My goal is to win as town, and if I let someone that could potentially be town, be led down a dangerous road that isn't fair for anyone... that's not playing to my win con is it? So I'll defend those I think are innocent and attack those I think are guilty. I had no suspicion originally on Bv, until he made that response. Usually it's only the scum that need to be so defensive...
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Last Editted:
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Spoiler: My Record for Mafiascum.net
#1. 5-2 Scum
#2. 3-6 Town
#3. 0-1 3rd Party
Archaebob
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Hats off to Neil for some incredible town play.

Me=Weird
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When I read up, I was just amazed by neil. Awesome reads.
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Post Post #52 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:06 am

Post by pinkfloyd »

That's one early claim, and at L-2? Why did you claim?

Because I would be lynched with 2 more votes? I don't know how else to answer that...
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Post Post #53 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:42 am

Post by SigmaEXE003 »

Prodding BobbyDrakeIceman, princesskdw, malpascp, and Collyer.
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Post Post #54 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:55 am

Post by princesskdw »

Unvote
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Post Post #55 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:10 pm

Post by SigmaEXE003 »

Extending time of inactivity before a prod is issued to 72 hours. I feel it's more fair. You may still request a prod on someone if they've been gone for 48 hours.
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Post Post #56 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:34 pm

Post by bv310 »

The way I saw Neil's post, it looked like scum trying to distance themselves from an impending (mis)lynch. He tries to add fear to the situation, when he says that it could hit a Townie, or worse, a POWERROLE. To me, this is blatant fearmongering. He then tries to call my posting entrapment, which it isn't. What I'm doing is trying to argue for a wagon based on the interaction currently.

I also especially love the Appeal to Ethics he tries in the second paragraph. Arguing that in other completely unrelated games, OTHER players can start off acting dumb, only to switch in to effective players once outside of RVS.

Neil, the Burden of Proof IS on you, not me. You are saying that Pinkfloyd specifically gets better once outside of RVS, and that wagoning him now is a bad thing. You are saying that my argument is wrong. You are responsible for proving that Pinkfloyd is NOT going to continue being annoying (which he admitted he does).

I'd also like to ask you what purpose your post was meant to have. Did you want to try and reverse the pressure on to me from PF? Were you trying to just break any momentum we were starting to build? What were you trying to say?
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Post Post #57 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:40 pm

Post by pinkfloyd »

princesskdw, you really have nothing else to add?
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Post Post #58 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:39 pm

Post by neil1113 »

Instead of quoting your whole thing and making a wall, I sifted through the useless stuff and brought out your actual points.

1. "He tries to add fear to the situation, when he says that it could hit a Townie, or worse, a POWERROLE. To me, this is blatant fearmongering."

Your opinion on what I said, was that because I was cautious with your faulty attempt at a case, I was fearmongering? Me saying you could hit a powerrole is me being cautious, not trying to cast fear onto anyone. Truth be told, you could say ANYTIME you lynch someone, you could hit a powerrole. But it'd be to no advantage. I wasn't discouraging a lynch, I was discouraging a lynch based on faulty reasoning.

2. "He then tries to call my posting entrapment, which it isn't."

I love how you throw the word in "tries." I'm pretty sure Me: "If anything, it's trapping play" was me calling your play trapping. There was nothing "attempted" there. It was blantantly called out. But grammar and punctuation aside, your quote here:

"If we keep you around, you're likely to continue this distracting play, and are going to lead to the Town's loss"

(which could also be considered fear mongering you hypocrite.. oh no, if we keep him around we lose??) that post above is a trap. No matter what he says, you can twist to use against him because you set it up perfectly here. Now it's a "you're only talking because I'm pressuring you, let's lynch him anyways" or a "see now you're not making a good enough defense, you're obviously going to be a distraction goodbye! lynch time!" Either way, no matter what he does, you've now successfully set up a potential lynch. And if you're scum, a mislynch which is a perfect chance. I've played enough games as scum to know a scum mindset and a scummy trapping play when I see it.

3. "You are saying that Pinkfloyd specifically gets better once outside of RVS, and that wagoning him now is a bad thing. You are saying that my argument is wrong."

This is so misrepresenting what I said, it's not even funny. First and foremost, this isn't even my case. Show me anywhere in my posting where I stated anything that you just said I stated. You're a liar, simply put. I never said Pink gets better, nor did I say a wagon on him is a bad thing. I never even really called your argument wrong, just faulty. My original post is here so people can compare what you said I said, to what I really said and see how you've completely pulled your accusation out of your butt. I explained your play was trapping, explained why it was bad, explained the possible result, and even clarified that my problem wasn't with Pink, it was with your fault case. I clarified that when I stated that "I'll gladly prove how many people JUST LIKE HIM..." It wasn't him I was arguing for, it was the faulty case I was arguing against. I never came to HIS defense personally.

4. "I'd also like to ask you what purpose your post was meant to have."

You're right but let me clarify. What I wanted was: I wanted to stop the wagon from developing on something faulty such as your case. I wanted to call you out for obvious entrapment, scummy play deserves to be called scummy. I wanted the town to approach the situation you created cautiously, and not blindly. And I wanted to see your reaction. Unfortunately, for the last part you've started to confirm to me that you're scum-motivated and not town-motivated like I was expecting. You can attack me for pointing out your faulty case all day long, but either way the spot light will stay between us which is exactly where I'm comfortable with it being. I have nothing to hide, but I'm pretty sure you do.
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Total Games Played:
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Last Editted:
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Spoiler: My Record for Mafiascum.net
#1. 5-2 Scum
#2. 3-6 Town
#3. 0-1 3rd Party
Archaebob
-
Hats off to Neil for some incredible town play.

Me=Weird
-
When I read up, I was just amazed by neil. Awesome reads.
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Post Post #59 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:26 pm

Post by Thomas »

In post 49, pinkfloyd wrote:And you just put me at L-2.... awkward....
Guess I have to claim.

I am Vanilla Townie. YAY!
You're at L-3... I checked to see why you thought you were at L-2 and I think it's because bv310 didn't unvote.
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Post Post #60 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:43 pm

Post by princesskdw »

Pinkfloyd: I had been prodded so I unvoted because we were all doing the vote against each other thing in the beginning. I haven't had a big amount of time to read
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Post Post #61 (ISO) » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:30 pm

Post by Collyer »

I didn't agree with bv310's case on pinkfloyd but he seemed to switch from it very quickly in post 46.

In post 51, neil1113 wrote:
I wasn't attacking Bv initially, I was defending pink
. I don't like stupid suspicion being cast. Stupid suspicion leads to stupid cases, which leads to stupid lynches and very rarely are those lynches scum on the end. My goal is to win as town, and if I let someone that could potentially be town, be led down a dangerous road that isn't fair for anyone... that's not playing to my win con is it?
So I'll defend those I think are innocent and attack those I think are guilty
. I had no suspicion originally on Bv, until he made that response. Usually it's only the scum that need to be so defensive...


In post 58, neil1113 wrote: It wasn't him I was arguing for, it was the faulty case I was arguing against. I never came to HIS defense personally.


There appears to be a contradiction between these two posts. In the first you say that you were defending Pink, while in the second you deny defending him
personally
? I'm sure you'll have a smart answer as to the fact that you didn't mention his name and therefore didn't defend him personally, but that still doesn't match with the fact that you said you were defending him.
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Post Post #62 (ISO) » Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:56 am

Post by neil1113 »

In post 61, Collyer wrote:I didn't agree with bv310's case on pinkfloyd but he seemed to switch from it very quickly in post 46.

In post 51, neil1113 wrote:
I wasn't attacking Bv initially, I was defending pink
. I don't like stupid suspicion being cast. Stupid suspicion leads to stupid cases, which leads to stupid lynches and very rarely are those lynches scum on the end. My goal is to win as town, and if I let someone that could potentially be town, be led down a dangerous road that isn't fair for anyone... that's not playing to my win con is it?
So I'll defend those I think are innocent and attack those I think are guilty
. I had no suspicion originally on Bv, until he made that response. Usually it's only the scum that need to be so defensive...


In post 58, neil1113 wrote: It wasn't him I was arguing for, it was the faulty case I was arguing against. I never came to HIS defense personally.


There appears to be a contradiction between these two posts. In the first you say that you were defending Pink, while in the second you deny defending him
personally
? I'm sure you'll have a smart answer as to the fact that you didn't mention his name and therefore didn't defend him personally, but that still doesn't match with the fact that you said you were defending him.


Oh my, that absolutely does appear to be a contradiction. Hopefully this will help you understand my line of thinking. The above post that you quoted (the first one) was as a response to someone who accused my original post as "an attack on Bv." That wasn't it's purpose, nor did I have any desire to just attack Bv. I was coming at it from a defensive standpoint, not an attacking standpoint. I hope that makes since? If not, here... I think you underlined the wrong parts.

In post 58, neil1113 wrote: It wasn't him I was arguing for,
it was the faulty case I was arguing against.
I never came to HIS defense personally.


In post 51, neil1113 wrote:I wasn't attacking Bv initially, I was defending pink[/u]. I don't like stupid suspicion being cast.
Stupid suspicion leads to stupid cases, which leads to stupid lynches and very rarely are those lynches scum on the end.
My goal is to win as town, and if I let someone that could potentially be town, be led down a dangerous road that isn't fair for anyone... that's not playing to my win con is it? So I'll defend those I think are innocent and attack those I think are guilty. I had no suspicion originally on Bv, until he made that response. Usually it's only the scum that need to be so defensive...


I hope this clarified things.
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Total Games Played:
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Last Editted:
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Spoiler: My Record for Mafiascum.net
#1. 5-2 Scum
#2. 3-6 Town
#3. 0-1 3rd Party
Archaebob
-
Hats off to Neil for some incredible town play.

Me=Weird
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When I read up, I was just amazed by neil. Awesome reads.
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Post Post #63 (ISO) » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:08 am

Post by pinkfloyd »

You're at L-3... I checked to see why you thought you were at L-2 and I think it's because bv310 didn't unvote.

I was at L-2 when I claimed!
Pinkfloyd: I had been prodded so I unvoted because we were all doing the vote against each other thing in the beginning. I haven't had a big amount of time to read

Okay, I understand. I hope you find time to catch up on 2 pages soon!
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Post Post #64 (ISO) » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:13 am

Post by Collyer »

In post 62, neil1113 wrote:Oh my, that absolutely does appear to be a contradiction. Hopefully this will help you understand my line of thinking. The above post that you quoted (the first one) was as a response to someone who accused my original post as "an attack on Bv." That wasn't it's purpose, nor did I have any desire to just attack Bv. I was coming at it from a defensive standpoint, not an attacking standpoint. I hope that makes since? If not, here... I think you underlined the wrong parts.


Oh my, what a delightful tone you have, I feel like little red riding hood. I'm afraid however that I'm not satisfied. I never disputed the fact that your post wasn't supposed to attack Bv. You say you were coming it at from a defensive point view, what is it? It doesn't make sense because you didn't read my post or intentionally tried to mislead me. I suppose you'll tell me again, in your patronizing manner, that you were attacking the stupid suspicion and so on (which I don't object too, and I happen to think that bv's case is silly). That's not what I asked you about though. I agree that the parts of your quotes that you underlined do prove that you attacked the case in both instances, but changing the subject and the ignoring the question looks a little strange. You claim not to have defened pink personally, and then say you did defend him?
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Post Post #65 (ISO) » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:23 pm

Post by Isa »

I think you're nitpicking a bit over details, Collyer. Neil brings up some very solid points versus Bv and I don't see anything inherently scummy coming from him.

Anyway, UNVOTE: . Standard is to claim at L-1, not at L-2, and usually you shouldn't claim unless someone states that they are willing to hammer (or you're playing with a quickhammerer ;)), but oh well.
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Post Post #66 (ISO) » Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:57 pm

Post by SigmaEXE003 »

Seeking replacements for BobbyDrakeIceman and malpascp, as neither of them have responded to their prods.
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Post Post #67 (ISO) » Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:58 pm

Post by pinkfloyd »

Anyway, UNVOTE: . Standard is to claim at L-1, not at L-2, and usually you shouldn't claim unless someone states that they are willing to hammer (or you're playing with a quickhammerer ), but oh well.

Well, I'm used to playing 12 player games and you should always claim at L-2 in those.... either way I feel I was going to get another vote anyway.
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Post Post #68 (ISO) » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:39 pm

Post by Thomas »

In post 67, pinkfloyd wrote:Well, I'm used to playing 12 player games and you should always claim at L-2 in those.... either way I feel I was going to get another vote anyway.
This is 9 player and RVS.
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Post Post #69 (ISO) » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:48 pm

Post by pinkfloyd »

Well... sorry?
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Post Post #70 (ISO) » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:13 am

Post by SigmaEXE003 »

Prodding princesskdw (again) and bv310. Come on people, this is a game.
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Post Post #71 (ISO) » Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:34 am

Post by Isa »

Thomas, Pinkfloyd, thoughts on Collyer/Neil debate?
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Post Post #72 (ISO) » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:29 am

Post by neil1113 »

In post 71, Isa wrote:Thomas, Pinkfloyd, thoughts on Collyer/Neil debate?


A debate? It wasn't really much of a debate...
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Last Editted:
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Spoiler: My Record for Mafiascum.net
#1. 5-2 Scum
#2. 3-6 Town
#3. 0-1 3rd Party
Archaebob
-
Hats off to Neil for some incredible town play.

Me=Weird
-
When I read up, I was just amazed by neil. Awesome reads.
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Post Post #73 (ISO) » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:42 am

Post by Isa »

Well, the exchange, the arguing...semantics.
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Post Post #74 (ISO) » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:56 am

Post by bv310 »

/prod-dodging. Sorry, birthday weekend shenanigans have kinda limited my reasoning powers today. Will attempt to get some work in on this tomorrow. In the mean time, anyone have any direct questions for me?

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