Open 321: Kc's FIRE and ICE: Game over.

[Krazy]

Cirno, if KJ and VE are both equally scum to you, why did you choose to vote KJ rather than VE? Are you more certain in KJ scum?

[killerjester]

Again, why are we pretending it's likely the KJ/VE "ice team" no killed on the night David saved VE when we already know he wasn't going to doc me?

[Klazam]

Krazy- are you opposed to an kj lynch, then?

[killerjester]

Klazam if you seriously think the team is Krazy/KJ can you just trustmeonthis and vote Krazy? I'll thank you after the game is over.

[Krazy]

Again, why are we pretending it's likely the KJ/VE "ice team" no killed on the night David saved VE when we already know he wasn't going to doc me?

Why are you so convinced that you're the only one I'm considering as VE's partner?

[Krazy]

Krazy- are you opposed to an kj lynch, then?

Is KJ's name VE?

[Klazam]

Who's VE's Scummate then?

[Kcdaspot]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 4

killerjester

- 1 - Cirno - (L-3)

Krazy

- 2 - ViscaraEyes, killerjester - (L-2)

ViscaraEyes

- 1 - Krazy - (L-3)

Players not voting: David Xanthos, Klazam

Deadline is October the 20th 2011, 8:00pm Central time.

(expired on 2011-10-20 20:00:00)

[Klazam]

Who's VE's Scummate then?

Answer?

[David Xanatos]

Quite curious about that myself..

[Krazy]

And VE/Klazam didn't make much sense either, because I feel VE came out too strong at the beginning of D5 attacking Klazam.

KJ basically says that "VE/Klazam doesn't make sense" because of what I take to be either opportunism or some of the weakest bussing I've seen. VE on Klazam at the start of D5 isn't 'strong' at all, let alone 'too strong' to be a chainsaw.

I explained this like a million years ago, but again: VE makes the most sense as partners with Klazam or with Cirno. Based on the way the votes played out, I was thinking Cirno was more likely to be fire maf based on the way VE was pushing hard and Klazam was sort of fence-sitting basically waiting for someone to put him at L-1 so he could game-ending hammer.

But I'm not even really willing to rule out killerjester at this point, even though the nightkill makes it the least appealing of the three scenarios, and also I sort of see him as fire maf, but generally I just have no idea what to make of that slot because I'm starting to just find him irritating one way or the other and no longer really interested in sorting out whether he's town, fire maf, or ice maf. If he's town, we pretty much lost, but if he's fire maf, I have no idea why he's playing along with VE and Klazam/Cirno, and so that sort of leads Ice Maf as a nice possibility mostly based on the way he actively defends VE. But since I generally just have no idea what to make of this slot anymore, I'd rather not lynch it today.

VE+Klazam > VE+Cirno ~ VE+KJ.

I'm also wondering if Klazam liked my case as long as he needed to in case a wagon developed on VE and then dropped it when he realized it implicated both himself and VE because KJ was clearly so deep in his tunnel he was never getting out.

There's also KJ + Klazam I suppose, I seem to remember something that made me not like that scenario too much but I can't recall it right now. I think it's because that would make Cirno the most likely to be Fire Maf, which would in turn make VE the other VT, which is impossible because VE is mafia as fuck.

[Klazam]

hm.

You think i am VE's scummate? This is based on purely D5 reads? What about previously in the game? And add in the fact i really believe VE is Fire mafia. So... what am i supposed to say to that?

Keep this in mind: For a successful wagon to form on ice mafia, both townies, DX, and the fire mafiaso has to be on it. that's asking for a lot.

HM hold on. think i found something.

HMM.

Krazy votes: VE
KJ votes: Cirno, then Krazy
VE: Follows KJ
Cirno: votes KJ

This makes it feel like possible scum pairings would be:

Krazy-Cirno
KJ- VE

Since the latter one doesnt make any sense- mafia MUST be Krazy-Cirno....

If you include me-

Krazy-Cirno
Klazam-VE
Klazam-KJ

These three are the 3 scum pairings left for ice scum.

I cant be ice with Cirno or Krazy, because if i was, the game would have ended long time ago (L-2 wagon without both of me and krazy/cirno).

I dont think it would mean anything if i tried to clear myself of these possible scumpairings with VE/KJ. Look at the game previously. I think that my fakeclaim gambit would give you pretty important information towards this end.

Sorry for the rambling. Did what i said make sense?

I'm going to place my vote on either Krazy or Cirno if you approve it, DX.

[Krazy]

I think that my fakeclaim gambit would give you pretty important information towards this end.

If your implication here is that by claiming mafia that I will think you are not mafia, you are mistaken.

[killerjester]

But I'm not even really willing to rule out killerjester at this point, even though the nightkill makes it the least appealing of the three scenarios, and also I sort of see him as fire maf, but generally I just have no idea what to make of that slot because I'm starting to just find him irritating one way or the other and no longer really interested in sorting out whether he's town, fire maf, or ice maf. If he's town, we pretty much lost, but if he's fire maf, I have no idea why he's playing along with VE and Klazam/Cirno, and so that sort of leads Ice Maf as a nice possibility mostly based on the way he actively defends VE. But since I generally just have no idea what to make of this slot anymore, I'd rather not lynch it today.

Okay this makes me really not want to lynch Krazy...

UNVOTE:

Klazam, would you be fine with lynching Cirno instead of Krazy?

[Klazam]

Krazy- its not me claiming mafia that clears me from being mafia. its how KJ and VE reacted to my fakeclaim that i want you to look at.

KJ- Why? What in that paragraph makes you not want to lynch Krazy?

[killerjester]

The middle sentence. And the bit about finding me irritating. I can totally see where he's coming from because I've been an apathetic dick towards him for quite a few pages now.

[Klazam]

Honestly- I'd prefer to lynch Krazy over Cirno.

[killerjester]

Why?

[Klazam]

It's because I'm still considering the scumpairing of you/krazy. From my point of view- I see only 2 scumpairs that makes sense: Krazy-Cirno, and Krazy-KJ.

Why you and Krazy?

Regardless, Reab's real partner needs to shoot Cirno.

You go after Cirno immediately on start of D5, too.

ALSO- after i asked you about krazy, you switch to krazy, but after that post, you back off. This seems like you could be trying to gain town cred from being willing to vote krazy.

(Yea, I'm a really paranoid dude, so sue me.)

Since there's 2 possible pairings that include krazy, I'd prefer to vote Krazy over others.

[killerjester]

Hmm alright that makes sense.

Now I'd like David's input. Krazy or Cirno or does he have an option C?

[Krazy]

I think it's interesting that Klazam is willing to be 'so paranoid' as to consider a KJ + Krazy scumteam but 'so skeptical' that VE no-killing is impossible.

[David Xanatos]

I'm seriously leaning KJ right now.. I still feel he's the most likely..

[Krazy]

You know what, Klazam makes sense with Cirno as well.

So between the following pairs:

Klazam + VE
Klazam + Cirno

vs.

VE + Klazam
VE + KJ

VE + KJ is strictly speaking more problematic than Klazam + Cirno, which his most recent play seems to really support.

Unvote; Vote Klazam

I'm starting to feel really good about Klazam + VE.

[killerjester]

What? You don't have any questions for me at all David?

Wow. I feel pretty damn useless.. =/

[Klazam]

Krazy- I cant be scum with cirno, because if i was, Me and cirno would have lynched you. both of us were off the wagon. Krazy-KJ is several orders of magnitude more likely than VE-KJ nokilling.