Open 321: Kc's FIRE and ICE: Game over.

[Krazy]

That would only be true if Cirno were here, and even then, not guaranteed. I've seen scum wait multiple weeks before hammering and suggesting that they wouldn't just because an opportunity presented itself is pure WIFOM.

[killerjester]

Nah they both posted in #1074 and #1077 after VE and myself both voted for you.

It's generally considered bad form to not hammer at the first opportunity if you're scum. Otherwise you're just toying with Townies who have already lost.

[Krazy]

Nah they both posted in #1074 and #1077 after VE and myself both voted for you.

It's generally considered bad form to not hammer at the first opportunity if you're scum. Otherwise you're just toying with Townies who have already lost.

That doesn't change the fact that unless they are both online at the same time and can create a dynamic of "we're here and ready to hammer" that they might hold off on the risk that town will unvote upon them voting.

Poor form or not, it happens, and fairly often at that, sometimes for days or weeks at a time.

[Kcdaspot]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 4

killerjester

- 1 - Cirno - (L-3)

Klazam

- 1 - Krazy - (L-3)

Krazy

- 1 - ViscaraEyes - (L-3)

Players not voting: David Xanthos, killerjester, Klazam

Deadline is October the 20th 2011, 8:00pm Central time.

(expired on 2011-10-20 20:00:00)

Gee, it sure is BORING around here...

Cirno is prodded.

If VE doesn't post soon he'll be replaced tonight.

[VisceraEyes]

Yes yes, sorry. My bad. I prefer a Krazy or Cirno lynch for my part. DX, what's your take on the KJ vs Krazy debate that rages? They're arguing from what appears to be separate factions, that's all I see though. Not who is what faction, or whether one is town or not. I believe Krazy to be on the Ice team however, because of how sure he sounds that I'M from the Ice team. It stinks.

[Krazy]

Yes yes, sorry. My bad. I prefer a Krazy or Cirno lynch for my part. DX, what's your take on the KJ vs Krazy debate that rages? They're arguing from what appears to be separate factions, that's all I see though. Not who is what faction, or whether one is town or not. I believe Krazy to be on the Ice team however, because of how sure he sounds that I'M from the Ice team. It stinks.

I'm sure that a) you're scum and that b) you weren't partners with Reab, with those two things in mind it bears to reason that you are Ice Mafia.

[VisceraEyes]

But you're not sure I'm scum, you suspect that I'm scum.

[VisceraEyes]

And for that matter, you can only SUSPECT that I'm not partners with Reab too...your whole nonsense 'case' against me is WIFOM, and you know it.

[Krazy]

And for that matter, you can only SUSPECT that I'm not partners with Reab too...your whole nonsense 'case' against me is WIFOM, and you know it.

Are you scared of my case such that you need to downplay it? And you're saying you

can

be partners with Reab, and as such yesterday you jumped on his wagon over KJ? I find that hard to believe, but apparently you need to assert that my entire case against you is 'wifom'. Et tu, VE?

As for knowing you're scum, I've 'known' it since day 1 when I saw your AtE, the issue has simply been convincing others of the matter.

[VisceraEyes]

I don't know if you're aware of my meta, but town or scum, I appeal to emotion. It's a failing...and I'm working on it. Generally, it just takes me getting used to the new players. I think I do it mostly to FORCE people to look harder at my posts...but either way, this is the only real point you have against me.

I'm not downplaying anything, either. Your whole case is 'He wouldn't have done this' 'He could have done that' 'He MIGHT have nightkilled if' 'There's scum motivation if you look at it THIS way'. All piled on top of your only real point, that I appealed to emotion on d1. And I'm not saying I could or couldn't be partners with Reab. What I'm saying is that you're not SURE of anything, and asserting that you're sure of something (especially in this open setup with no investigative roles) is fallacious and, as far as I'm concerned, scummy as hell.

[Krazy]

umad?

[VisceraEyes]

Why would I be mad?

[Cirno]

Responding to prod. Back later.

[killerjester]

Are you scared of my case such that you need to downplay it? And you're saying you

can

be partners with Reab, and as such yesterday you jumped on his wagon over KJ?

Reminder: He "voted me... to the death"

[Krazy]

Are you scared of my case such that you need to downplay it? And you're saying you

can

be partners with Reab, and as such yesterday you jumped on his wagon over KJ?

Reminder: He "voted me... to the death"

The point here is that ultimately he went on the wagon that lynched Fire Maf, aka "his partner" if he was fire maf, over an equally available wagon in you. He had already voted you 'to the death' -- so why would he get off that, when a hammer on you didn't seem all that unlikely, and instead go for a bus on his partner? I just don't see scum partners doing that.

[killerjester]

Reason why?

for a bus on his partner

Oh look, answered your own question. Reab was clearly going down after that terribad unvote on me, and I really don't have an issue with VE bussing Reab.

[Krazy]

Reason why?

for a bus on his partner

Oh look, answered your own question. Reab was clearly going down after that terribad unvote on me, and I really don't have an issue with VE bussing Reab.

You can say the unvote was terribad, but I think a lynch was anything but sure on him.

[killerjester]

It was a sinking ship. VE simply got off. It certainly makes more sense than the part where you suggested Cirno could be fire mafia and he STARTED the Reab wagon.

[Krazy]

It was a sinking ship. VE simply got off. It certainly makes more sense than the part where you suggested Cirno could be fire mafia and he STARTED the Reab wagon.

The thing is, Cirno sort of sat on Reab for a really long time, and he never really provided very good reasons. It could be opportunism, but it could just as easily have been distancing. He was riding it through a lot of the game when there was never any momentum, so when a wagon actually did develop, I can see him not wanting to get off as that would undo the value of his earlier distancing and also probably come off as suspicious. I can more easily see Cirno as Reab's partner than I can VE.

[killerjester]

I still don't see where you get off saying that Cirno could have been distancing for voting Reab over me, but VE can't possibly be Reab's partner for the same reasons.

[Krazy]

The reasons aren't the same though. It would be very suspicious for Cirno to turn around and unvote VE when he's been on him the entire game, whereas with VE he could have very easily stayed off since he was responding to new developments that could have been interpreted one way or another.

[killerjester]

Yes they are. Cirno chose to vote Reab (new wagon) over me (could've put me at L-1). This is a LOT more problematic than VE seeing that his vote on my wagon is losing steam, while Reab's is picking up. And sees it as last-opportunity to bus.

Also

It would be very suspicious for Cirno to turn around and unvote [Reab] when he's been on him the entire game

This is just silly. I don't see where Cirno has been on Reab (which I'm assuming is who you meant) the entire game. In fact, D4 in the post he votes Reab is really the first time he made an opinion about him.

[Krazy]

Alright, 'just day 4' if you want, but voting Reab was his only two posts over the course of like 9 days. In terms of 'time-based interest in the slot' he'd been interested in voting Reab for weeks of the game.

[killerjester]

That still doesn't change how he could've interpreted the events to his pleasing, and could've put me at L-1 instead of starting a new wagon on his "partner" - of all people! Without any previous opinion of Reab from pre-D4 I really don't see him turning around to get his partner lynched. And I really don't see how you do.

[VisceraEyes]

This is ridiculous. Guys, I'm TOWN, so all this arguing is a waste of time. Can't you see that? This is EXACTLY what they want!