Mini 1243: Magician Mafia (Game Over)

[Crab Canon]

unvote, vote:salures

incentive

[Fishythefish]

Interesting. saul is a vig/SK. At any rate, he's not the kind of person you lynch.

UNVOTE:

When I get a chance to think, I'll look at Anxiety and probably vote him. This makes it more likely my block on him was the reason for the missed N1 kill.

[Crab Canon]

saul is a vig/SK. At any rate, he's not the kind of person you lynch.

wat?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Vote Count 3.2

Fishythefish (L-3) – Vi, Amrun, Junpei
Amrun (L-5) – Luxury
saulres (L-5) – Crab Canon

Not Voting (5) - SnakePlissken, saulres, 4nxi3ty, ace5993, Fishythefish

Deadline: Wednesday October 26 @ 8:00 PM Eastern
Countdown: (expired on 2011-10-26 20:00:00)

[Crab Canon]

Also, Snake, I assume you've had time to catch up now so I'd like to hear a lot from you today.

[saulres]

unvote, vote:salures

incentive

Incentive for what? To answer your questions? I'd answer them anyway, I do that all the time.

your tiger rips out people's hearts?

Apparently. Came as a surprise to me, but I guess that was to distinguish it from scum kills. And it makes flavor sense.

also, why did you crumb like 10 pages after the start of the day?

Are you referring to my 2nd crumb, the one where I announced who I killed N1? It took quite a bit of work to twist my words to be able to do that and not be obvious. I needed a post where I had a lot to say and that I could reword sufficiently to get across what I wanted to without tipping off that I had crumbed. I had been trying with a couple of earlier posts but gave up on them when I couldn't complete the crumb and wanted to go on with the post. I saw no reason to rush.

[Crab Canon]

I think the reason to rush is that it wouldn't look like you could be scum deciding by the seat of your pants to crumb later when it's potentially convenient. I need to discuss this with my other head, but my personal gut reaction is that the I vigged SR crumb is a little late in the day to be legit.

[saulres]

Newbie card here: There are timeframes on result breadcrumbs? The wiki doesn't mention that. It talks about crumbing the claim early, which I did. And Amrun will vouch from Pick Your Poison that I didn't even know about breadcrumbing your results when I was a doc in that game. It was her questioning it that made me look at the wiki article again and see "actions" and "results" which I had missed the first time. And I had the first crumb long ago. (I thought I had more "vi -- g"'s as well throughout D1 but couldn't find them again.)

I don't see how you can come to the conclusion that I made it up on the fly.

[Crab Canon]

Help me understand why you claimed today. You just didn't want town believing there was an SK around? You were worried that Fishy would be lynched incorrectly because of SK speculation?

I dont' quite follow your Vi/ace hate either, but I can read over it a few more times to see if that makes sense to me.

p.edit - there aren't rules of course. Let me try to explain what I mean by on the fly. IF you were scum in that situation, you would have seen people talking about a vig kill on SR already and thought 'hey, I could breadcrumb now as a safety net and maybe claim that vig kill later if I need to.' Whereas, had you claimed in your first post or something, there would be no doubt that you had been the one that took that shot because no one else would have brought it up before you. There is certainly wifom involved here. I hope you can appreciate that.

[Vi]

vi, can i get a summary of rigg's qt for both day one and day two?

*points somewhere in ace's posts*

I blocked saulres last night, because I thought he might be scum.

Then why didn't you vote for me when no kills happened?

*nods*

The *walks up to door* bit I don't understand at all. If you're saying I wanted to know why you were going after GNR - yes! I did!

In that case, I think that Vi should make a post in the G_N_R QT saying exactly what she doesn't like about him there - it seems important to her case on him. If G_N_R doesn't relay it, we lynch him.

*wanders over to Riggs' house*
*checks Riggs' phone*
*finds wiretap*

With only 1 kill out of 4 chances, I don't think there's a SK. I think we have (possibly impotent?) scum, and we have a town vig. Me.

...

*paints

10

black strokes on the canvas*
*holds finger up*
*prestidigitates a little*

*raises hand*
*slowly lowers hand in front of easel*
*causes

7

of the black strokes to fade to

green

*

*salutes Debonair Danny DiPietro*

...

...

Interesting. saul is a vig/SK.

At any rate, he's not the kind of person you lynch.

...

*does not vote saulres*

[saulres]

tl;dr: Recap of my claim post, worded differently for Crab Canon.

I thought I explained my reason for claiming today, but I'll try to spell it out again. Enough things came together (no night kills, me being blocked, me no longer needing from bulletproof scum because we lynched him yesterday, determining that Roy is probably not in the game, etc.) that I thought it was better for town to know what's going on with the 2nd killer (or 1st, really, as scum hasn't killed anything at all yet) and stop spending pages trying to figure it out instead of looking for real scum.

The Vi/Ace "hate" (your word, not mine) came from them being the only ones to look for a second killer on D2. Any normal townie would have assumed SR was the scum hit, only scum would know it wasn't and try to figure out why. They're the ones who came up with the "I'm bulletproof too!" story and so assumed a second killer before anybody had flipped scum. I believe that normal town Vi would've thought that GNR was town, not scum, when she found out he was bulletproof. So either she's bulletproof too as she claims,

or

she's scum making up a reason to look for the second killer. If she's scum, Ace may or may not have been in on it, so I'd been looking for any clues they may have let slip on D1 that they had their QT then. That's when I looked at the timing of their "reveals", and also found that tell from Ace earlier in the game that he "could translate for Vi if needed" which I read on D2 as "I've had my QT with Vi all along". But then I lost that read today when he said he didn't have it any more.

[Vi]

I thought it was better for town to know what's going on with the 2nd killer

(or 1st, really, as scum hasn't killed anything at all yet)

...
*eyes grow huge*

*pulls light bulb out of hat*
*holds light bulb over head*
*makes light bulb glow, seemingly without any source of power*

*returns to easel with black marks*
*pulls hand down in front of it*
*somehow makes the three black marks turn red*

*runs backstage to find pistols*
*returns to stage empty-handed*

[Amrun]

I'm happy with a Vi townread, given saulres' claim, also with a saulres townread. At worst, saulres is an sk, so I'm not interested in lynching that for today.

Mod and all: V/LA for the weekend, but my computer decided that it won't even start up in safe mode, so I won't be as active from here on out even after that. I will be around periodically through the rest of the night and Friday night, but not at all on Saturday and Sunday. I will be posting after that, but I won't have a computer at home so I can't react to things as I might have otherwise. Please be patient.

[Luxury]

At the moment we've had claims from Vi, Saulres, Fishy, Anxiety and Ace leaving the only unclaimed players to be Crab, Locke, Jumpei, Amrum and ourselves so right now I think mass-claiming might actually be optimal and we may work out where the missing scum kill(s) are from it.

I'm leaning towards believing Saulres's claim although his reasoning behind suspecting Vi and Ace is garbage though and their roles and interaction with Riggs make them both obvious town. Regardless, I see no reason to lynch him at all right now, if he is indeed SK then mafia will become forced to shoot him at some point or another while he will be forced to use his kills aiming towards hitting scum.

Vi, if this is a flat out Town-Scum game with no SK I'm finding is slightly unbelievable for there to be a Scum BP AND a Scum RB. I also don't understand your suggestion of three scum remaining, that would imply four starting scum with it being 9-4 which is unrealistically mafia sided especially in a no reveal setup.

[Vi]

I also don't understand your

suggestion

of three scum remaining

*shakes head*

*salutes Debonair Danny DiPietro*

*points to the moderator*

that would imply four starting scum with it being 9-4 which is unrealistically mafia sided especially in a no reveal setup.

*points to post 1036*

[Luxury]

You're saying mafia have no kill?

[Vi]

You're saying mafia have no kill?

*shrugs*
*nods*

[Junpei]

Saulres claimed Vig? I can't see two town vigs in the same setup, so I'm going to claim Vigilante here.

N1 I shot Sotty
N2 I shot Anxiety

I have a tiger named Montecore, whom I can kill someone with. But my role is a bit odd in some respects.

I'm compulsive (have to shoot every night)
I was told that there were

any amount of factors

that could affect my kill such that my kill doesn't kill my target, or possibly kills someone else. The bold is what caught my eye early on, and is what has had me confused on the setup from the getgo. But now with 2 BP claims and a JK claim, it confuses me quite less. However... possibility of killing someone else is yet to be explained, and I suspect that mafia have a driver of some sort.

Also, I see that Saulres nameclaimed, so I suppose I should. I am Roy Horn. I don't know much about Magicians at all, in fact I didn't even know that Seigfried and Roy had a tiger until this game. But, I suppose it makes sense that if Vi is town (and I really think she is) that this is the case as well. Penn and Teller (famous duo) has 1 scum 1 town (seemingly), and Seigfried and Roy (famous duo) has 1 scum and 1 town, respectively.

vote saulres

I really don't see two vigilantes being town with scum, just makes no sense.

Also fishy going "yeah I'm very scummy, but.. yeah" is definitely not making him look any better. But we need to lynch saulres today.

[Luxury]

I don't want to go too deeply into setup speculation here and I'm at work so I'll try to make this brief.

I actually think two vigs that share a combined shot with partial control over the kill target actually makes sense as both town, I can't see how it would make sense if one of them were mafia at all as it would essentially give them control to another kill and I strongly disagree with Vi witht he setup being mafia-killless. What all of this does mean though is that a Mafia RB against 2 vigs is highly likely and although at this point I'm near certain that Amrum is scum I'd be happy moving to Fishy.

Vote: Fishy

[Luxury]

I think we have (possibly impotent?) scum, and we have a town vig. Me.

I killed Sotty on N1 because I thought he was scum. Last night my kill didn't go through, and so I was expecting Fishy to say he blocked me, and he did.

I'm Siegfried Fischbacher, of Siegfried and Roy.

My role PM suggests that I don't have full control over my tiger

and so I was thinking that Roy is out there and scum, and so I was hoping to get a tell to that effect, such as a tiger attack I didn't order. But I don't think that's the case any more: 1)The tiger did what I asked it to on N1, 2) The tiger did nothing last night and there's a block claim on me, and 3) We have a Teller without a Penn, so I'm thinking Roy's still injured and not in the game after all.

I'm going to claim Vigilante here.

N1 I shot Sotty
N2 I shot Anxiety

I have a tiger named Montecore, whom I can kill someone with. But my role is a bit odd in some respects.

I'm compulsive (have to shoot every night). I was told that there were

any amount of factors that could affect my kill such that

my kill doesn't kill my target, or possibly kills someone else.

The bold is what caught my eye early on, and is what has had me confused on the setup from the getgo. But now with 2 BP claims and a JK claim, it confuses me quite less. However... possibility of killing someone else is yet to be explained, and I suspect that mafia have a driver of some sort.

The bolded above pretty much confirms you both as a partial vig controller, if you select the same target that target dies similar to what happened N1 and I'm assuming if you pick separate targets one of your shots (Probably random, possibly whoever sent it in first) goes through and the others doesn't, guessing that Sauls went through last night but he was roleblocked.

So yeah, no one should be voting Jumpei or Saulres right now at all.

[Luxury]

If there is indeed three scum left I'd place a bet on it being an Amrum + Fishy + Snake scum team.

[Junpei]

Alright, I guess that given that interpretation it is possible that we are both town. I'm not sure to what degree that is, but if it is as you say, it is a theory we can test tonight, although we'd have to direct our kills in public.

vote fishy

Back to my original vote.

Oh yes, and for the record, is this Luxury-Regfan, Luxury-shift, or Luxury-hivemind?

[saulres]

Junpei, I've given proof that I'm the vig based on the crumbs I left. Your post which came afterwards has no information indicating the same with you, and could easily have been created after you read mine to try to make yourself look more town. So, prove it to me. Without quoting your role PM (which is against the rules), give me the initials of the first four words of your Vig ability, in the order they appear. I will verify if they match mine or not, and give the results here. You can ask me a similar question.

But before you do that,

@MOD

: Is this plan okay? I think it would count as a paraphrase.

16.) Do not quote anything from the moderator that is said outside of this thread (including role PMs) or pretend to quote anything from the moderator. Paraphrasing is allowed but if you are questioning your paraphrase, run it by the moderator first.

[Luxury]

Saulres, I don't see any real motivation for Jumpei-Scum to cc a claim like vig here if it wasn't real at all, it's something that's confirmable and the manner in which he cc'ed reads strongly as town.

Given that now everyone but Crab, Amrum, Snake and ourselves have claimed we should most certaintly finish this mass-claim. I'd prefer Amrum start it but if others want I'd be willing to claim first. Oh and it's Luxury-Regfan, all unsigned posts are.

[Junpei]

If the mod consents, I will. As for proof of me being vig? Well, I didn't breadcrumb. I'm very hesitant when it comes to that, and don't see much reason to. I mean there are two facts about breadcrumbing that make it seem poor to me:

1) Either it is clear enough, and scum could see it and you're compromised

2) It is very cryptic, and it could easily be scum laying tracks for a prior claim.

Breadcrumbing proves nothing, and is potentially risky.

Here I expressed surprise that no one died, and made a point of noting it, which most people really didn't do. Scum kill + vig kill = 0 kill? I mean, sure my shot may have been stopped, but I shot a VT-claim, so it makes less sense.

As for anything else... not really, but Vi's theory made sense to me when I replaced SK with Vig because I did shoot sotty to catch scum, so it made her Fishy case hold more water with me, if the contradictions and Fishy's response aren't enough. You may see this thought process if you read my other posts from this day.