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Post Post #525 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:20 am

Post by Benmage »

In post 523, Sir Bastion wrote:
2. That's simply completely false. Its a subjective opinion again only to make me look bad. But its 100% false.


Yes it's opinion, but that is a lot of what mafia is about. Opinions based on people's actions in the game. Either from the posts they make during the day or the powers they may possess. You can present your own subjective opinion of the events but you cant fobb of my conclusion because its not based on imperical evidence.

Yes mafia is opinion based. There's alot of convincing others of you opinions. A very strong scumtell of mine is people who take certain events and only paint people or see their actions in a negative light. You stated half-explained actions on my account and made me out to sound worse than I am. That may be your opinion. But you acted in a more Persuasive manner, than a factual one. A manner more often illustrated by scum, imo.

The best example I have of this comes from Patricks Speed Mafia. Magister Ludi (scum) litterally takes nearly every action I did and completely flipped it into negative standpoint. It caught me off guard and bewildered me as I (town) was going about my relatively normal town nature. Here's the key.
Scum have to create fabricated cases.
They have to paint townies as scum in order to seal mislynches to get the win. I have the most success in catching scum who attack me. Because I know my intentions, and can tell more easily when I feel that are being puposely painted or viewed only from a negative mindset. (I went on to tracking ludi to a kill.. which really fubar'd the scum team, because they felt he was their most town-looking member :wink: )

And so to conclude: You're painting my end of day actions from only a negative, scum mindset.
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Post Post #526 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:39 am

Post by GhostWriter »

I'm sorry, maybe this has been asked, but I don't see it yet. Well, I see part of my question to Bastion. Anyway, Bastion, Quilford thought EC should be lynched over Dram. He stated so, twice, I believe, before the day ended. So why would he ever feel pressured to unvote EC and have Dram lynched? And why would you waste time "pressuring" him for anyway? Pressuring wouldn't be the thing to do, convincing him to unvote would be the thing to do if you wanted to get him to unvote. You then say that it was scummy putting EC at lynch, but your plan was to put him close and hope someone took that bait? Yet you wanted Dram to die over EC? So you wanted to possibly sacrifice someone you didn't want to be the lynch in order to possibly catch scum? Which, by the way, doesn't work, obviously, due to the fact that, you know, it's entirely possible that someone town could also find EC scummy and have voted him. I'm having a really hard time understanding what the townie mindset for this was, I really am.
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Post Post #527 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:24 pm

Post by CATFISH »

A gifted lurker can lurk without being noticed...
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Post Post #528 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:25 pm

Post by CATFISH »

Bastion, if you think Benmage was muddying the waters to protect dram, shouldn't we let dram flip first?
VOTE: dram
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Post Post #529 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:29 pm

Post by Sir Bastion »

@Ghostwriter: Going through your post line by line.

-Nope Quilford replaced in literally 5 posts before he voted and his explanation included the following " but
for now
EC's scummier" considering he only copped on that he was the one who hammered EC 3 posts later showed that if the timer had not run out within the hour Quilford could have done manner different infinite possibilities.

-wasting time pressuring him over going the route benmage suggested which was to put a vote on dramonic and hope that one of the 3 players who had not joined the two wagons would decide to log on before the night was over. Great, except of course 1 of those players is as bad as dramonic for not posting, the other hadnt been seen for 2 days and the last sleeps in a different timezone...Work with what I got or put it to chance. I opted to work with what I got.

-It had been confirmed by the mod that if two players are voted to the same level the one who arrived first would be lynched. That was confirmed. Dramonic in my book is a waste of space, I'm not as die hard as Hoppster thinking he's scum, but I rather lose him then a player who in my eyes had contributed to the game, even if it was in a strange up and down manner. So yes I decided to take chance on seeing if someone would jump out to push EC over the line and I fubared it up thanks to the hilarious antics of Troy and Abid.... I also explained the possibility of a town voting with the position that pushing EC 'over' was the equivalent of hammering, anyone who was town (and wasnt at the time not paying attention and messing up like I did) would have demanded a claim when he was even with dramonic instead of continuing to push over. (I explained that in #491)

-The important thing here is the game ended even sooner then I expected, and I can hypothesize all I want (and you can join me) on how me pushing at quilford or how other posters might have contributed to the scenario. I genuinely thought I had at least another few hours gametime based on Slaxx's post #474 where he said it was going to be
another VC in 2 hours
. This was later changed to being the endgame in #477 which I missed among the fubar drama and things went the way they did.

Would I have preferred a Dramonic lynch? At the time yes.

Do I regret how the way things went? I regret my fubar and I am sad that EC had to die. But its reassured me of something which I am going to talk about now.

I guess the question should be why I am voting benmage and not pushing on Quilford more.

I was hoping to see if I could go toe to toe with benmage on this and see if I could prove my point without the need of relying on my full hand. But I'll be honest he's good with the words and I can see this being a debate that will get buried in the background or worse turned against me. And this is my first big game so while I know the timing to do so in the mini games would suit now based on what I know, but I checked a thread on the point and the advice is clear.

If you have information you should claim.

so
ROLECALIM: COP, CHARACTER CLAIM ARCHIVIST


I am a cop I can check if someone is guilty or not each night. There is no warning of possible sanity issues but a possible framer or equivalent existing was hinted at to me.

I checked benmage last night based purely on his last two posts and the result came back guilty. Its an early claim and god knows I wouldn't do it if I didn't get a guilty read, but I feel if I tried to go one more day without claiming that I'd be NK or lynched based on what I've seen so far.

Hints of me being archivist can be seen by my initial case comments on both Hoppster's arguments that ShadowDancer is possible scum by me checking his past games and again when I was casing EC I checked his past games.
Scum:
nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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Post Post #530 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:35 pm

Post by CATFISH »

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Benmage
Claim bro
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Post Post #531 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:48 pm

Post by Oversoul »

Nice job, Bastion.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Benmage
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Post Post #532 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:57 pm

Post by Benmage »

TL/DR

Thats funny here comes the counterclaimed. I don't know if you were hoping to out the real when in your fall.
But DING DING DING. I'm the cop.


You crumb your upick...but not cop. How convientently useless.

I'm an
X-Shot Full Cop
. Big Dog. And I hate to do this. But Duplicity, is town. Rebel Leader, and a 1-shot weak neighborizer.
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Post Post #533 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:59 pm

Post by Benmage »

Cop 1-0-1 is to claim a guilty when you get a guilty. Bast didn't like the way he was looking and has now overreacted. I don't know if he was hoping to plea a framer.. or re-director or just hope for the 1 mislynch. But noone sits on a guilty.
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Post Post #534 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:12 pm

Post by Sir Bastion »

So you are the Mafia Cop.

Well then this will come down to a simple scenario.

One of us will get lynched and the other will be vindicated.

Its my first time playing cop and also my first time playing large themed games. I know in the mini's due to their size that a cop should claim at once when they find guilty (or in some theories even when they find non guilty according to zanatos) as it drasticly improves the odds. But I didnt know how soon one should claim in a large game where the odds are not as prone to swinging wildly in favour of town.


Hence I held off claiming until it was clear that there was no other option.
Scum:
nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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Post Post #535 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:17 pm

Post by Benmage »

Its 16 players. Its not even that huge. Nice try.
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Post Post #536 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:26 pm

Post by Sir Bastion »

Big Dog is an unusual one to link to cop?

I mean I understood why I was made a cop by being Archivist, it was spelled out that I dig through people's past to expose their secrets. I mean the pm (which I wont quote) clearly used terminology from the flame warriors page to explain my role

But Big Dog...

Not really a pro law and order description is it?

Big Dog is a bully who doesn't hesitate to use his superior strength to intimidate other combatants. Big Dog may be smart, articulate or just plain mean, but in any case he is a remorseless fighter, brutally ripping into even the weakest of combatants. Once Big Dog securely fastens his powerful jaws on a hapless victim


But alignments are not linked to characters. Your roles are though so I'd be curious how big dog translates to cop

Its 16 players. Its not even that huge. Nice try.


with an unidentified number of mafia and numerous unknown roles and restrictions, yes the odds get thrown a bit for wack when all that factors in.
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nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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Post Post #537 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:26 pm

Post by Benmage »

534 reads like capitulation.

But anyways. As I'm an X-shot. And after I got my results I theorized that town PRS could look that way. Scum probably wouldn't know this, hence SirBasts fail claim.

Balance for a second. The "weak" is a cop modifier. How many confirmation roles out there..??

Lets lynch this scummer. If there's any doc's/watchers. HOOOOOOO protection!
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Post Post #538 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:27 pm

Post by Sir Bastion »

EDIT: Your roles could be...sorry not are could be linked to your characters.
Scum:
nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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Post Post #539 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:28 pm

Post by Benmage »

Really... flavor now.

So Rebel Leader is town?

You're calling me the Mafia Cop... and not a Cop. Come on.

What Necromancers info look like?
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Post Post #540 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:33 pm

Post by Oversoul »

Well this is problematic.
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Post Post #541 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:37 pm

Post by Sir Bastion »

As I pointed out it doesnt decide your alignment, you dont know Duplicity's powers or post restrictions which could reflect rebel leader which actually reads like a very neutral flame warrior role

Necormancer is one I'd easily agree that I dont know how it could be used to define vanilla townie. But again we dont know any post restrictions placed on EC and he didnt claim any. But even reading it, the character doesnt have any attributes sticking out that scream any major roles.

But again I ask I know and I assume everyone else from their own characters that language and terminology from those characters were used to describe your role.

for example me checking if people are guilty or not is called
Pull File
so what is your equivilent called?
Scum:
nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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Post Post #542 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:38 pm

Post by Sir Bastion »

Oh and Big Cat (SD's role) screams vanilla townie for the first half of its description.
Scum:
nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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Post Post #543 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:44 pm

Post by Oversoul »

Ya I am lynching Benmage. He is Mafia Rolecop.
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Post Post #544 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:48 pm

Post by Benmage »

So you think theres a standard cop role.

And other cop-like roles?

Come on... I guarantee theres other X-shot town PRs too.
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Post Post #545 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:52 pm

Post by Benmage »

It's called Intimidate.
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Post Post #546 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:53 pm

Post by Oversoul »

No that is why I am lynching you. Full cop is retarded as fuck. Not that hard as mafia to add the word "town" once you got their role so that you know they aren't third party. Weak neighborizer is pseudo cop I give you that but it is plenty wifom which is probably why Slaxx added it.

Sir Bastion thinking that flavor actually matters shows his innocence about the cop claim.

pedit:

Hmm... this would be incredibly devious of Slaxx to make you town... hmm..
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Post Post #547 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:56 pm

Post by Benmage »

Sir Bast rant shows his why he overreacted and fakeclaimed standard cop just cause hes the archivist.
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Post Post #548 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:00 pm

Post by Benmage »

Flavor says yada yada yada Im intimidating. I can scare one person every night into revealing everything about them.
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Post Post #549 (ISO) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:00 pm

Post by Oversoul »

I believe you are a rolecop. Just not your alignment. Hmm. Predicament. Bastion is scummy through out the day... guilty...

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