Mini 1265: Wickedestjr's Mini Normal- Game Over

[Odysseus]

For those of you who didn't catch it.

"Treznor is my scummiest read.
If Treznor is Scum, Odysseus is likely scum too
Odysseus is town in my book"

yeah no

One down. 1-2 to go. Easy mode time.

Votecount 1.8:

Katty Bard - [3] - Soben, treznor, el simo
treznor - [3] - FightingShadow, ScreamingHawk, bionicchop2
el simo - [2] - Gen_Wolf, redtail896
ScreamingHawk - [2] - DemonHybrid, Odysseus
bionicchop2 - [1] - Uphill
DemonHybrid - [1] - Yonzy

Not Voting - [1] - Katty Bard

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or 7 to no-lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2011-11-09 11:01:07)

[Yonzy]

@Redtail:

My bad, didn't really mean case but I guess your conversation with him? Idk what to call it. It was the most reasonable protection of uphill in comparison with the others. I'm mainly referring to post 88.
For uphill though:
Post 25: Most unnecessary post tbh. Him accusing him time of avoiding the question just screamed scummy to me because it really wasn't a question in the first place so I felt like he was just trying to making Tim look scummy instead of calling out a scummy thing he did.(If that makes sense)
Then by seeing post 25 as a scumtell post, everything else just built on that image of him looking scummy.

I guess I should've put Uphill's alignment as leaning scum instead of scum.

Screaminghawk

I only feel the need to post when I have something to say. That really isn't too often

Thats an epic excuse for lurking.
Post 181 seemed like an attempt to get on Oddy's good side tbh.

I honestly can't tell whether he is lazy townie or scum so i'll hold off on voting for him for now.

El Simo

Honestly, post 171 gave him town points from me even though I don't completely agree. There are many causes of bandwagons in RVS. I've never really been in a game where a bw in rvs has actually led to a lynch so I'm assuming that it's just the cause of someone fucking around.

I still don't see Katty as scummy.

FightingShadow

's post 175 gave him town points from me. Except his analysis on a post by a guy he replaced was completely unnecessary and seemed like he was trying a little hard to earn townpoints. I could be overthinking it though.

@Odysseus:

The people that were labeled as scum were all the scum possibilities I thought there were, so there would have to be more possibilities than there actually are.

I'd love to see some scum reads from Katty. lol


more tmrw, bed time for me.

[Uphill]

Uphill - Curious where he has gone after the offensive start.

I went to the happeningly hip city of Not-Having-Anything-New-to-Sayville for a day there.

What do you think about his selection of Ok lynches, who he doesn't comment on?

Those are what you'd call "null-reads", but I actually like the name "OK lynches". Sounds more positive that way. I don't actually have a read on them, but as per my "lynching an unknown > not lynching" philosophy, I would be okay with a lynch on someone in that category.

You're wrong, Uphill. FS used quotes for his big post but he didn't have the part that links to the post that the quote was taken from. That is what treznor was talking about when he asked to use the quote feature. I know this because there's no other way that his bolding the unvote comment makes sense otherwise. FS never unvoted, he only voted trez and the only time it looked even remotely like that was when he accidentally copied Katty's post. Further proof that he's not reading can be found by the fact that Katty's post was actually in FS's big post and trez still didn't notice.

Wait, what? You're saying that because the only way "bolding the unvote" makes sense is in reference to 174, "quote feature" must therefore be a reference to the lack of links in the quotes in 175? Because that makes, like, negative infinity sense.

Treznor's post is a lot more sensible if you look at it from the point of view of someone who only read page 7. "bolding the unvote" makes sense if he didn't realize the UNVOTE was from Katty's post and thought Fighting was trying to unvote, and "quote feature" makes sense if he saw the failed Katty quote and thought Fighting didn't know about quote tags.

That humor aside, I would love to see you outline your reasons I am scum. I know a lot has happened in the 2 days since you posted, so take your time and make a clear case so others can agree or disagree with it.

It's still the same as last time, nothing has changed my opinion since then.

Post 25: Most unnecessary post tbh. Him accusing him time of avoiding the question just screamed scummy to me because it really wasn't a question in the first place

what.

the.

FUCK.

Timeater asked me about my random vote, and I answered. Then I turned around and stole his question and used it against his non-vote. So how exactly does that process make that question no longer a question? Did a powerful archwizard whose only spell is to turn questions into other things make me his bitch?

[Soben]

The whole "Treznor contradicted himself" thing is complete rubbish, if you know for a fact that you commit a particular scum-tell when you're town it doesn't mean that it becomes a null-tell for other players at all, for instance I know for a fact that I avoid the RVS period regardless of my alignment but I still treat avoidance of the thread when attacked as a scum-tell. I also find that Treznors 'lack of reading the thread' as something that's exaggerated, he still is providing usable content and as El Simo stated his lack of patience of reading into all of the posts is moreso a playstyle factor than an alignment one.

I'm actually feeling slightly better about Katty after her recent post though I despise the playstyle of scumhunting purely through ISO's than reading the thread as a whole and actually have found that merely reading and judging people via their ISOs is something scum tend to do more often than not. With all that said though I noticed a different contradiction to the one that Odysseus pointed out in ScreamingHawks post that makes me believe my vote is better warranted elsewhere:

DemonHybrid - Null.

I hate to say this but I really can’t read anything from what you’ve posted. Most of it is quoting other people and disagreeing with whatever is in the post.

I do agree with your #141 on timeater, though I think he is leaning scum.

FightingShadow - Timeater

left me wtf about this slot. But I like your read on the game so far.

Null-town

, more town if I ignore Timeater

This is so full of contradictions it isn't funny, he states that he agrees with DH and that he prestened something new in #141 about Timeater and thinks Timeater is scum but he can't read anything of DHs because he hasn't posted new content (????), he then stated he has a null-town read on FightingShadow/Timeaters slot.

Unvote, Vote: ScreamingHawk

[Soben]

Also Retrospective, you probably know this already but I feel compelled to say it regardless: Sometimes less is more, I know you want to quote strip or elaborate onto all of your reads all the time but it stifles discussion to a degree. I'd recommend merely elaborating into your stronger reads and focusing solely on them at this point.

El Simo, the main or major reason I suspect you isn't related to your lack of activity or content but rather an oddly phrased comment towards Timeater which I still insist reads as if you're attempting to offer him a suggestive tip on how to scumhunt rather than stating you suspect him. I will however make an effort to get Scumhunter to collaborate with me a lot more so we do indeed post as one head from hereon out though our timezone makes discussion slightly difficult.

FightingShadow, you stated that you made an entire post and lost it all in Post #168 then stated that you're doing a 'stream of concious reaction while reading the thread' in Post #175, do you mind explaining to me how that works? Surely your 'reactions' would have occurred when doing your first post (Which got deleted) so isn't your second post (#175) not your natural reaction but rather your thoughts after reading the entire thread?

Town Reads (S->W):

Odysseus, Uphill, Bionicchop2, Treznor, FightingShadow, Yonzy, DemonHybrid.

Null Reads:

Gen_Wolf.

Scum Reads (S->W):

Screaming Hawk, Katty Bard, El Simo, Redtail896.

[Gen_Wolf]

Sorry all, I have been really busy and I will be till tomorrow.

I did reread the thread and I think its fair that I can say this because I haven't been active but I see a lot of repetitiveness in terms of people sheeping there reads.

Now, in brief. I believe Oddy is strong town. He gives good insight and genuinely seems to be town so he gets town points from me.

Screaming hawk is screaming scum at me (Bad i know) but again he just doesn't sit right. I think as a whole, most people's opinions are right. I know this is not much all but I will do a few ISO's tomorrow and get back in depth.

Apologies again!

[Retrospective]

Sorry. I'll try to be more cryptic unless someone asks me to explain stuff.

Uphill, I see what you mean and it makes me feel better about trez.

Hi soben.

[Odysseus]

Sorry. I'll try to be more cryptic unless someone asks me to explain stuff.

Uphill, I see what you mean and it makes me feel better about trez.

Hi soben.

Fucking shit. I typed this on my phone in bed and forgot which login I used. I promise this won't happen again.

[bionicchop2]

I can get back on this SH wagon for sure.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: screaming hawk

Those contradictions pointed out by odysseus and soben are more likely to be scum motivated than the one I thought I saw from Treznor. It implies SH was just posting fluff and didn't genuinely have reads on any of those people. Seeing el simo's comment that they were frustrated by Treznor last game for not reading chunks of the game shows this is their norm. I still feel they contradicted them self, but I am in the minority so there is a chance it is just a perception issue on my end.

[treznor]

Now for what's really frustrating me. treznor STILL isn't reading.

FightingShadow, 2 points:
1) You'll need to bold your unvote if you want it to count.
2) Please don't quote people without actually using the quote feature as then we can't tell what's going on, especially if I don't specifically remember that someone else said that already.

Because of those two points, I have no idea what you were actually trying to do or show in the post above.

Number one is referring to this post where FightingShadow accidentally copied Katty's last post. FS even said at the top of his next post that he didn't mean to post it. I have three huge problems with this.
1) treznor didn't recongize this as Katty's and that was a couple pages ago meaning he wasn't reading then.
2) This post makes absolutely no since from either Time or Fighting's PoV and that should have struck trez as odd but the only thing he posted about it is that he didn't bold the unvote. Still not reading/not really looking?
3) He didn't read the second post closely enough to even see FS apologising for this miss-post.
4) trez's second point is absolutely horrid and it doesn't matter if a post is linked or not.
I don't know what to do about this because I still have a bit of a townread on trez but he is obviously not giving us real reads. simo, is this consistent with his meta? It's one thing to not have enough time to read but it's a whole different animal to post multiple times per page but be proven at mutliple times during the game to not be reading... I know this is harsh but trez, you either need to shape up or ask for replacement because we deserve better than what you've been giving.

I very much am reading, thank you very much. Your entire case is based on me missing one post, on a new page. It should probably have been pretty obvious that somehow I missed the page turn. I obviously recognized that FS was quoting someone (and knew that it was Katty Bard but didn't feel the need to post that as it was pretty obvious who he was posting). However, I couldn't tell quickly whether or not he was quoting the entire post from KB or just a portion of it because he didn't link the quote. If you don't feel that those two points are proper etiquette, then I guess that's your opinion. In my opinion, votes need to be bolded so its obvious what you're doing (and that's not an opinion, that's a mod rule) and quotes need to be quoted so we can trust them, easily see the context, etc. Yes, in this case I knew exactly who was being quoted as I remembered the post but in other cases that may not be true.

FS's post after that cleared things up but, as I stated above, I missed the page-turn. I apologize for offending your delicate sensibilities.

[treznor]

Just a side note, his sign up date of 2004 is odd with his style of play up to this point. How much exp have you actually had here? Oh lots, #77.

This. After a long-time inactive, I just completed a newbie game that moved nowhere near as quickly as this one is (el_simo can back that up... the pace was.. painful). I'm trying to keep up but having trouble sometimes

Now who isn't reading? Regardless of my join date (which I've referenced as being mis-leading) I have played two games on this site. One in 2004 and one that I just completed. Having played a number of games via an email site means you understand the mechanics, but not how statements and actions will be perceived here.

Sorry for the inactivity yesterday all. I was slammed at work and couldn't post much and then when drinking around 3pm until I came home and passed out in bed. At least the drinking started early yesterday

[redtail896]

Ok I have, but now you reread it through the lens of noobscum. Providing a back story doesn't do much for me, it's a biased read.

Done. I struggle to see why noobscum would push for a lynch on somebody so quickly. If Uphill ends up getting lynched and is town, she looks godawful. If he's scum, why would she jump into bussing mode so quickly?

Would noobscum retract the vote? Yes. But s/he would do so because a townie would retract that vote too.
In unvoting, I think either alignment would try to justify themselves, especially when a mound of suspicion has been leaped on them.
Her reasoning seems consistent to me.

Hence, I maintain that I don't find her that suspicious.

Hi Genwolf. What's up?

Re ScreamingHawk: the contradictions noted by others are pretty good, and I can see the argument that he's sheeping most readings. I also don't understand where his argument for a Trez-Ody pair comes from. Also the misrep of Uphill feels really bad to me.

UNVOTE: VOTE: ScreamingHawk

[treznor]

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p3547325]Now I hate to start defending someone based on their meta and what not, but in our last game I was endlessly frustrated with treznor for just ignoring whole posts I made (considering we were in lylo the feeling was exponential lol). So I'm still not seeing anything scum from him, but can certainly understand the frustration.[/quote]
I'm not sure what makes so many think I'm not reading (and in the game you are referencing I was definitely reading, in this game I was behind for a short while). If I read a post and don't have a response, I don't post anything regarding it. It doesn't mean I didn't read it, it means I didn't have anything to say. If I later contradict something you said in that post without referencing it; again, it doesn't mean I didn't read it, it means I either disagree with it or get a different read based on the same information.

[treznor]

Annd, of course I break the quote tag after asking someone else to please use the quote tag... aarrrggghhhh.

[Odysseus]

Annd, of course I break the quote tag after asking someone else to please use the quote tag... aarrrggghhhh.

lol.

Hey trez, I wasn't building a case on you as much as I was just really bothered by it all. Sorry for making the assumption that you weren't reading and thanks to you and Uphill, I see what you were actually saying now.

[treznor]

[quote="In

You're wrong, Uphill. FS used quotes for his big post but he didn't have the part that links to the post that the quote was taken from. That is what treznor was talking about when he asked to use the quote feature. I know this because there's no other way that his bolding the unvote comment makes sense otherwise. FS never unvoted, he only voted trez and the only time it looked even remotely like that was when he accidentally copied Katty's post. Further proof that he's not reading can be found by the fact that Katty's post was actually in FS's big post and trez still didn't notice.

Wait, what? You're saying that because the only way "bolding the unvote" makes sense is in reference to 174, "quote feature" must therefore be a reference to the lack of links in the quotes in 175? Because that makes, like, negative infinity sense.

Treznor's post is a lot more sensible if you look at it from the point of view of someone who only read page 7. "bolding the unvote" makes sense if he didn't realize the UNVOTE was from Katty's post and thought Fighting was trying to unvote, and "quote feature" makes sense if he saw the failed Katty quote and thought Fighting didn't know about quote tags.[/quote]
Sorry for the multiple posts; I'm catching up from being out yesterday and I prefer to do it this way rather than a wall in a single post.

This is -exactly- why I was pointing out that quote tags should be used. I remembered Katty Bard posting that post but I didn't remember that she posted an unvote right before that comment. And without a quote tag to use, I'd have to go find the post manually. I know it isn't hard to do, but considering there's enough to do in a quickly moving game on this site, cutting down on the 'extraneous' work (i.e. work that could easily be done away with by having a quote tag) is definitely well-intentioned, meaning the obvious is not well-intentioned (i.e. scummy).

None of this is to be taken as a knock against FS as he posted quickly afterwards that he didn't mean to make the post.

Ninja edit: Odysseus, glad to see you understand what I managed to (accidentally) do. I'm leaving the above as some of it is still relevant.

[treznor]

Crap, I broke the friggin quote function AGAIN. At this point I'm ready to make a post about myself and how I should use the quote function better. I really hate trying to quote multiple posts, which is why I prefer posting multiple posts instead of responding in a single post. And I still managed to mess that up.

[Yonzy]

As far as the Odyssesus vs Uphill conversation regarding treznor's post.. I don't really feel like its relevant to scum hunting at all, just whether or not Trez is paying attention.

By bion:

. Don't know if those do much good. I think most people should cut their null tells from their lists. It just doesn't serve much of a purpose.

I don't agree with Null tells being cut from the lists. Nulls just mean that they don't see the townreads/scum reads from a certain person so another point of view could help you out.

I think his push on Trevor can be see as just a scum taking an opportunity to push someone easy(im saying easy because of people's accusations that trevor isn't reading/paying attention/noobing it up etc).

Screaminghawk

Yeah my reads can be obscure / terrible at times.

excuse! You basically said that if anyone disagrees with your reads its okay because your reads suck anyway.(According to you)

Uphill

I went to the happeningly hip city of Not-Having-Anything-New-to-Sayville for a day there.

That should never be an excuse not to post. That's more of a way to avoid saying something that might give someone a scumread on you.

what.

the.

FUCK.

Timeater asked me about my random vote, and I answered. Then I turned around and stole his question and used it against his non-vote. So how exactly does that process make that question no longer a question? Did a powerful archwizard whose only spell is to turn questions into other things make me his bitch?

Saying "what's

not

up with your vote?" is not a question at all tbh. It's more of just a comeback you said to sound clever. Then when he replied with something clever all you said was "Oh you're avoiding the question"
After that going on to using sarcasm for I don't knwo what purpose it really served just seemed like a desperate attempt to make yourself sound clever..


After Soben pointed out his contradiction in post 203, I can agree with lynching SH so I'm down to put my vote on him, idk where the votecount is at yet and I dont wanna hammer yet.

[Yonzy]

Lmao @ the treznor quote fails.

[treznor]

Okay, caught back up. My reads:
Strong Town
Odysseus
Soben

Weak town
el simo

Weak Scum
Uphil
Katty Bard
Timater/FightingShadow

Strong Scum
ScreamingHawk

I know that isn't everyone. I don't bother with null reads as it means I haven't formed an opinion.

Odysseus

If you're scum, well played. You've posted some quite detailed scumhunting that has helped form a number of my reads. Detailed reasoning is tough to do as scum.

Soben

Similar to Odysseus. Been quite straight-forward with a number of your reads and the reasoning behind them, and the reasoning makes sense.

el simo

I don't have a lot to backup my read on el simo other than his playstyle seems similar to the last game, which he was town.

Uphill

I've had the widest reads on Uphil, going from strong scum to town and back to (weak) scum. I know he defended me, and did so in a logical manner, while I wasn't around yesterday. The only defense I can give for having a weak scum read is that it could be buddying to get someone on his side and defending someone he knows to be town (if he's scum) in order to provide some 'hey I'm providing logical decisions' points. That said, he's my weakest scum read and those that are stating he's town I think have a strong case as well.

Katty Bard

After her last post I'm willing to take a step back from my opinion on her. I would have had her as Strong Scum before, now I'm back to having her between Uphill and Timeater/FightingShadow. A couple more posts like that will have her back at null or Weak Town.

Timeater/FightingShadow

Most of my read on this slot is based on Timeater. I know that's old information and seems to be in his playstyle as well. However, his rage-quit just really reads to me as him seeing he was going to have a big uphill battle to get people to follow him as town.

ScreamingHawk

I'm on board with this. The fact that Odysseus (my strongest Town read) started it (not including the DH vote which was done prior to the post Odysseus was responding to) started it does have some influence in my eyes. Even without that I'd like to hope I would have noticed the inconsistency and gone the same direction.

I'm in the same boat as Yonzy (except I do know where the votecount lays... I believe it's at L-2). I want to vote ScreamingHawk, I don't want to put the L-1 vote on him without giving him a chance to respond.

[treznor]

Lmao @ the treznor quote fails.

I know, right? Always the way it goes.

[Odysseus]

Something for the 'Timeeater is scum' people to think about:
You seem to think his ragequitt was scummy, but I see it completely differently. If you look at why he quit it was because I kept calling him VI. I further explained how no scum would let themselves play as badly as he did because they would know how they would look when they were proven wrong. So I said that even though he was a liability to town, he's town. I think a scum player would have been able to cope with that read much easier than a town player. I think scum would have seen this as town calling him town and ignored the reason all the insults to his play as be content with the idea that people are seeing him as town. This is even heightened by the fact that I wasn't the only one calling him town and I feel like scum him would be in a very comfortable position and wouldn't think of asking for a replacement. The way he reacted each and every time I called him a VI read as legitimate rage to me and I believe that only town-time would be so butthurt about it that he left. A scum player would have KNOWN his play was bad because he would have KNOWN that Uphill was town so this wouldn't have been insulting to his character at all. I mean look how he left 'I have a business to run' was like his last retort saying that he wasn't a VI.

If the time slot is scum, I'll eat my shoe.

[Soben]

Once upon a time, I heard that Retrospective made sweet sweet love to Zac Efron.
The result: a disgusting infatuation with wall posts.

[Odysseus]

Hi Chris

[Soben]

Hai. Timeeater replacing out goes to show that he didn't like you Odysseus. Reading alignment confidently off of that either way is a stretch.