Mini 1265: Wickedestjr's Mini Normal- Game Over

[bionicchop2]

UNVOTE: to put at L-2 while we mull over the claim.

Votecount 1.10:

ScreamingHawk - [5] - DemonHybrid, Odysseus, Soben, redtail896, treznor
treznor - [2] - FightingShadow, ScreamingHawk
Katty Bard - [1] - el simo
el simo - [1] - Gen_Wolf
bionicchop2 - [1] - Uphill
DemonHybrid - [1] - Yonzy

Not Voting - [2] - Katty Bard, bionicchop2

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or 7 to no-lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2011-11-09 11:01:07)

[Soben]

I need to talk to Scumhunter as soon as possible but at this point I'm leaning heavily against believing the claim.

ScreamingHawk, did you breadcrumb anywhere?

[Odysseus]

How do other games take precedence over this one when you were at L-1 for over a day an a half? I don't believe the claim at all. I feel like if he had such a powerful role like that, he would have claimed a long time ago because it's such a trump card. He makes it seem like he's not had the time/ability to post when his last post was only two lines. I think he avoided this because he was defeatist scum who avoided this as long as possible.

Soben, before you talk to Scumhunter, I wanna know why you believe it.

SH, who were you planning on Jailing?

[Soben]

Soben, before you talk to Scumhunter, I wanna know why you believe it.

I don't.

[Odysseus]

OH I COMPLETELY SKIPPED THE WORD AGAINST FOR SOME REASON.

[bionicchop2]

I haven't played with a JK in a long time. The role has always been a little weird to me, because I don't think it is as great as it seems on the surface.

I think the pros of lynching SH mafia outweigh the cons of lynching SH as jailkeeper. Not to guess game setup, but if he is legit JK, then I don't see a second protection role being available to keep them from night death, so we gain little by not lynching him at this point. If he is mafia and we don't lynch him, we possibly mislynch on someone else (odds of being maf decreased), possible waste of PRs on him at night (protection, investigation, etc.).

I am going to VOTE: ScreamingHawk and put them back at

L-1

[Yonzy]

I do not believe that claim lol. If it is true, then it is SH's fault completely for making mistakes(contradictions, taking a while to claim, seemingly avoiding posting) and giving us all that strong scum vibe.

[Odysseus]

Don't hammer yet -- I want DH's promised reads first.

Although, I just read over SH. I feel like a PR would be frustrated about being outted on d1, there is little to no emotion when the votes were piling on. Pretty sure we've hit scum.

[Uphill]

I haven't played with a JK in a long time. The role has always been a little weird to me, because I don't think it is as great as it seems on the surface.

I think the pros of lynching SH mafia outweigh the cons of lynching SH as jailkeeper. Not to guess game setup, but if he is legit JK, then I don't see a second protection role being available to keep them from night death, so we gain little by not lynching him at this point. If he is mafia and we don't lynch him, we possibly mislynch on someone else (odds of being maf decreased), possible waste of PRs on him at night (protection, investigation, etc.).

I am going to VOTE: ScreamingHawk and put them back at

L-1

This post analyzes the value of Hawk's claim, rather than the likelihood that it is legitimate. That is what scum do to push mislynches on PRs, and it's a very good scumtell. Not only that, but the actual analysis of this post is crap as well. If Hawk is legit JK, we gain a lot by not lynching him, specifically we gain NOT MISLYNCHING. If Choppy was legitimately thinking this through this way, he wouldn't have glossed over that. But he did, because he's not legitimately thinking this through - he's trying to ensure that the Hawk mislynch goes through.

CONFIRM VOTE ON BIONICCHOP2

[bionicchop2]

You forgot to bold your confirm vote to make it count extra hard.

I thought SH was most likely to be scum based on the fact I had my vote on them prior to their claim, so don't act like my vote is based only on their claim. They have been at L-1 for 2 days and several people asked for claims. He posted elsewhere on the site. If I was a PR at L-1, I think that would be one of my priority games. So yeah, the value in possibly getting scum D1 vs the value of possibly saving a tricky PR in the hands of an irresponsible player acting scummy (who would likely die that night) seems to be pretty straightforward to me.

PR is not a get out of jail free card to not read the game. Most people LOVE having a PR. If he was JK, he would be focusing much harder and trying to figure out who to jail at night.

Let's analyze your post now uphill:

he's trying to ensure that the Hawk mislynch goes through.

What knowledge do you have not available to everybody else? You seem to

know

SH is town based on this statement. Or is this just based on your misguided tunneling of me? You have already assumed I am scum, so will base every other opinion you have on that one false idea.

[treznor]

You forgot to bold your confirm vote to make it count extra hard.

Both of you make some valid points. I just wanted to say that the line above made me laugh out loud

[Gen_Wolf]

Don't hammer yet -- I want DH's promised reads first.

Although, I just read over SH. I feel like a PR would be frustrated about being outted on d1, there is little to no emotion when the votes were piling on. Pretty sure we've hit scum.

Fake claim IMO.

How long are we waiting for the reads? And who is dropping the hammer?

[Odysseus]

unvote

Uphill makes a great point, and I noticed the exact same thing. I'm not ready to lynch SH anymore. Retro will probably flip shit, but whatever.

Also, bioni's response to uphill is like...terribad. The part where he throws flak on him just because uphill used the word "mislynch" when it was obvious uphill was speaking from a bioni-scum SH-JK assumption.

Yeah...

I'll talk it over with Retro but I am going to

vote bionic

for now.

[Odysseus]

actually...meh, idk.

unvote

I'll talk with retro first.

[Soben]

Bionic, Uphill, and Odysseus, you are all town. Stop fighting with each other please <3.

I have no issue with bionic's post. The utility of a town JK once outted on day 1 isn't much. It's a great late-game role, but once outted day 1, there likely isn't a JK + doc in the game so town-SH dies tonight anyways. So we really don't lose much by SH-town (other than the ML). Now, the mislynch itself is a big thing but that is the risk that we take when we lynch anybody really.

Bionic explained himself fine and raised a good point that town-SH would have claimed earlier/had more interest in this game/been pissed for being outted on day 1. SH's claim reads very much like "drrrr, im pr don't lynch me".

Haven't had chance to touch base with my partner but from his posts doesn't seem like he buys the claim either. I'm still very much in support of a SH-lynch at this point unless someone can explain some new town tell from his recent posts that doesn't boil down to being afraid to lynch a town pr d1.

Oh and we both still want to see DH's promised reads list.

[el simo]

Sorry, busy weekend.

el simo

I don't have a lot to backup my read on el simo other than his playstyle seems similar to the last game, which he was town.

Ok this worries me, I was actually scum that game.

I actually like KB's iso on SH. I hadn't caught what all the SH hype was until I read that, so town points for her and scummies for SH.

I don't like FS recent posting. He's not really providing much new content, mostly just noting good logic. He's being vary cautious. I will have to reread him after this.

I was originally null on Bion but he is making strong strides into the townie book. Post 262 reads to me as logic that only a townie would assume. 248 is good calm defence, I had the same thought as I read that post by Uphill,

how do you know he is going to mislynch?

It didn't come off to me as if he was assuming a Bion scum role, and even if he were that doesn't stop SH from flipping scum.

How do other games take precedence over this one when you were at L-1 for over a day an a half? I don't believe the claim at all. I feel like if he had such a powerful role like that, he would have claimed a long time ago because it's such a trump card. He makes it seem like he's not had the time/ability to post when his last post was only two lines. I think he avoided this because he was defeatist scum who avoided this as long as possible.

Agreeing with Oddy here, if he were JK he would've made the claim a lot earlier. At this point in time I'm ready to lay down the hammer. If SH flips scum, it is going to cast Uphill in bad light. I'm not hammering until a) DH posts and b) I do that reread on FS.

[el simo]

UNVOTE:

[treznor]

Sorry, busy weekend.

el simo

I don't have a lot to backup my read on el simo other than his playstyle seems similar to the last game, which he was town.

Ok this worries me, I was actually scum that game.

I was referring to our last game together (here in which you were definitely town (unless the mod was horribly, horribly wrong...).

[treznor]

Wait, are you in schizophrenia land? First you claim scum in our last game, when you were town. Then you say you're ready to hammer and then unvote?

[bionicchop2]

I am going to LOL so hard if this derails.

SH is getting lynched today unless something drastic happens.

Ask yourself what advantage there is for me to push on a JK claim as mafia. If you see me as any sort of reasonable person, the best play for mafia-bionicchop would be to stay quiet and post nothing. I could easily mix into the sea of non-posters. Just because I say stuff that doesn't fit into typical thinking. People treat PRs like they should be worshipped.

Sorry, when I weight the pros and cons of the current situation, lynching SH seems to have more advantages than not.

preview:have to catch up on new posts, but have to get this work thing done 1st.

[el simo]

Wait, are you in schizophrenia land? First you claim scum in our last game, when you were town. Then you say you're ready to hammer and then unvote?

Ok wow.. I've been confusing you for Beck and our last game for one where I replaced in as scum.. I'm going to have to 100% retract everything I've said about your meta, I completely got you mistaken with someone else!

Also, my vote was on Katty Bard - the unvote is irrelevant to my will to hammer.

[Uphill]

I thought SH was most likely to be scum based on the fact I had my vote on them prior to their claim, so don't act like my vote is based only on their claim.

Duh? That's not even what I'm talking about. I'm talking SPECIFICALLY about your unvote to decide if you believed the claim, and then revote that didn't actually have anything to do with whether or not you believed the claim.

They have been at L-1 for 2 days and several people asked for claims. He posted elsewhere on the site. If I was a PR at L-1, I think that would be one of my priority games.

And if you were scum at L-1, you'd dick around? Hope everyone on your wagon suddenly gets ADD?

THIS IS WHY THIS HAWK WAGON IS SO FUCKING INFURIATING. IT'S LIKE EVERYONE THINKS:

1) HAWK WAITED TO CLAIM
2) ???????????????????
3) HAWK IS SCUM

WITH NOBODY FILLING IN NUMBER TWO.

PR is not a get out of jail free card to not read the game. Most people LOVE having a PR. If he was JK, he would be focusing much harder and trying to figure out who to jail at night.

How do you know what Hawk would do as a JK? Have you ever seen him play as a JK? Are you married to him, and he talks about what he'd do as a JK in bed all night, inducing torturous insomnia that leaves you wondering what happened to your life, where is it going, and would you be happier if you'd never said those two little words?

Let's analyze your post now uphill:

he's trying to ensure that the Hawk mislynch goes through.

What knowledge do you have not available to everybody else? You seem to

know

SH is town based on this statement.

I do

know

he's town. I'm infinity percent sure he's town, with a margin of error +/-3. This knowledge isn't unavailable to everybody else, in fact, I've been posting it publicly myself where everyone can read it.

Or is this just based on your misguided tunneling of me? You have already assumed I am scum, so will base every other opinion you have on that one false idea.

CONFIRM VOTE ON BIONICCHOP2

I remembered the bold this time

Just because I say stuff that doesn't fit into typical thinking. People treat PRs like they should be worshipped.

Seriously? You're going to act like you're going

against the grain

by pushing Hawk? Let's get all Sesame Street up in this bitch.

lynching SH seems to have more advantages than not.

ONE! ONE PERSON PUSHING HAWK!

screaminghawk + timeater + lurker.

TWO! TWO PEOPLE PUSHING HAWK!

I'm ready to lay down the hammer.

THREE! THREE PEOPLE PUSHING HAWK!

Fake claim IMO.

FOUR! FOUR PEOPLE PUSHING HAWK!

Yeah, this dude is probably mafia.

FIVE! FIVE PEOPLE PUSHING HAWK!

I want the SH lynch to go through as well.

SIX! SIX PEOPLE PUSHING HAWK!

Re ScreamingHawk: the contradictions noted by others are pretty good, and I can see the argument that he's sheeping most readings. I also don't understand where his argument for a Trez-Ody pair comes from. Also the misrep of Uphill feels really bad to me.

UNVOTE: VOTE: ScreamingHawk

SEVEN! SEVEN PEOPLE PUSHING HAWK!

I'm still very much in support of a SH-lynch at this point unless someone can explain some new town tell from his recent posts that doesn't boil down to being afraid to lynch a town pr d1.

EIGHT! EIGHT PEOPLE PUSHING HAWK!

ScreamingHawk: You are at L-1. Time to claim! Your reticence to claim makes me think even more than you are scum.

NINE! NINE PEOPLE PUSHING HAWK!

I do not believe that claim lol.

TEN! TEN PEOPLE PUSHING HAWK! AH AH AH!

Sorry, you're not a rebel, you're a sheep, baa baa baa.

Although while doing this, I noticed one name missing from that list, FightingShadow, who's doing his damndest to fence-sit Hawk. He just jumped so high up my scumlist he'll burn up on reentry. I'm calling it now, bionic + Shadow + either simo or GenWolf.

[Odysseus]

ಠ_ಠ

VOTE: SH

[Odysseus]

I am so friggin' annoyed.

First of all, bio is my third highest town read.

IMO,
70%: SH scum, Bio town, Uphill town
15%: SH town, Bio town, Uphill town
15%: SH town, Bio town, Uphill whiteknighting scum. I think this is a possibility because Uphills reasons for thinking SH is town are WEAK. Him calling this a misslynch after that claim is unbelievable to me.

283: Good analysis but wrong.
284: Agree.
287: ಠ_ಠ
288: ಠ_ಠ

Obviously I need to talk to Slaxx...

FS: 9
Soben: 8
Bio: 8
Uphill: 6
trez: 6
el simo: 5
gen: 5
yon: 5
KB: 5-4
rt: 4
DH: 4
SH: 2

[Odysseus]

I am going to LOL so hard if this derails.

SH is getting lynched today unless something drastic happens.

Ask yourself what advantage there is for me to push on a JK claim as mafia. If you see me as any sort of reasonable person, the best play for mafia-bionicchop would be to stay quiet and post nothing. I could easily mix into the sea of non-posters. Just because I say stuff that doesn't fit into typical thinking. People treat PRs like they should be worshipped.

Sorry, when I weight the pros and cons of the current situation, lynching SH seems to have more advantages than not.

preview:have to catch up on new posts, but have to get this work thing done 1st.

Bio, I think you're town but this whole post is horrible. I would and have pushed very hard on town PR's (offsite) and looked town after the flip because of it. SH has been scummy to the point that even if he's town, no one will come off worse because of it. Please don't use logic like this.

Also to answer your question about what your scum you would gain from pushing on JK, you'd get two things. 1. JK death, 2. You'd be able to use the logic you just used to try to clear yourself.

------

I'm not even going to try replying to Uphill as I don't think it'd do any good anyway. Also if you guys have any questions about my read list, just ask.