Mini 1266 - My iTunes Mafia - GAME OVER

[J]

I said I don't ever wanna vote her and it is a bit strange but I have a really good town read on her I believe. I have a very very strong will to not lynch those I think are town. xP

What makes me think she is town is the stuff she is saying like, "If I like PFoD and he does flip town I'm gonna be in even more suspicion and I don't want that." and the lines of "Lynch PFoD and if he does flip scum, then fine you can lynch me and I will be okay." If I remember correctly, she has less experience then others? Her points are a bit waffly but it is more of a town intent than a scum-intent especially with the way she has been responding to the pressure on her and the way she has approached the PFoD wagon. I don't see much scum-intent from her posts but an almost bellicose amount of town-intent.

Since you seem to know her the best, what is your read on her?

I have to bring up something else cuz it's bugging me about how some events transpired.

[J]

Guttersnipe, to add onto what I had asked you:

I swear to God Painted, I want to see you hanged just for being irrational. When someone says something against you your immediate response is to claim suspicion of that person (though in the most recent case with Skenvoy it seems a lot more like conscious distancing), and in addition to that you are unable (or unwilling) to realise that the whole issue of whether DeasVail's original reasoning for voting Sken was reasonable or not is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT, and so you KEEP BRINGING IT BACK UP, which is, as far as I can tell, only a good thing to do if you want to waste a lot of people's time (which, imo, is a scum thing to do). When people explain why they think you are suspicious, you seemingly inevitably misconstrue what they are saying and claim that they are misrepresenting you or whatever, and then when nobody agrees with you you're surprised, as though it never occurs to you that it could be

your

reasoning that is flawed.

On that note, Don John's post was excellent. Every problem you pointed out in #62 is based entirely on your own, personal conviction that DV must be scum because he was suspicious of you, and on reason not at all. It's true that no one really called you out and proved your irrationality on each point, but despite that the fact that you now strut around assuming that it's granted that his post was "scummy" is at best irresponsible and at worst malign.

In short it's hard for me to get a read on you because I have difficulty telling the difference between intentionally irrational evil and the irrationality of people who can only experience a self-centered, emotionally coloured perspective, but either way I'm not happy.

Skenvoy: I tend not to vote a lot - is that a thing on this site? I guess the idea would be that scum wouldn't want to leave a trail of votes that could later be analysed to their detriment...? Or is it also that scum would be nervous of putting themselves out on a limb and would therefore wish to gauge reactions before committing to a solid vote?

Ha, regarding that last one, what do you think of this?

"I still suspect DV and I'm going to wait and see what responses I get before changing my vote."

Here you give us a pretty largess post on why you would vote PFoD and how you don't vote a lot. The reasoning behind it seems really genuine and I understand why but you seem pretty wanting to vote PFoD as your biggest candidate at the moment. However then you do this;

vote: Skenvoy

And it seems topsy turvy. You voted Skenvoy out of the blue with a literal zero reasoning behind it and I would have expected a PFoD vote over this based on your last posts so it seems odd and misplaced. Especially considering your attitude towards your vote.

[DeasVail]

hmm, my read on Skenvoy at the moment is leaning scum, but I think I could be getting caught up and not paying enough attention to those who aren't in the limelight. I'm very inexperienced, so don't trust my read on her just because I know her. However, the reasons you think skenvoy is town, do not alter my read.

In my opinion, you're making too big a deal out of guttersnipe's actions.

[J]

I haven't called GS's actions scummy but I am pointing out that I think it's a little contradictory to what he is said so I'd like answer to it.

DV, what do you think of Fennin?

[J]

hmm, my read on Skenvoy at the moment is leaning scum, but I think I could be getting caught up and not paying enough attention to those who aren't in the limelight. I'm very inexperienced, so don't trust my read on her just because I know her. However, the reasons you think skenvoy is town, do not alter my read.

In my opinion, you're making too big a deal out of guttersnipe's actions.

I am really comfortable with calling DV town as much as I am Sken after this post. His line of saying that he is getting caught up with not knowing those who are not in the limelight and that he is inexperienced so his read on her should not be that trusted rings as town being more open with their train of thought and the fact that town.

However, I had a town-read on DV to begin with so this just strengthens it. ^^"

Moving on until I get more from others.

[DeasVail]

I don't agree at all with my post strengthening the likelihood of me being town. Saying I'm inexperienced takes away from my responsibility if I cause a mislynch. Mentioning how I might be getting caught up and not paying attention to those in the limelight keeps my options open if I'm scum, allowing me to vote whoever I like while remaining consistent with what I have posted. I am town, so you're right in thinking so, but I would most likely say something similar in that position if I were scum.

I've got null on Fennin at the moment, but Fennin, why was Skenvoy the main subject?

Skenvoy, what do you think of [J] having town reads on both of us?

[J]

By trying to find flaws in my logic for why I have a

town

read on you makes me love you as town.

So DV, your scum-reads remain in PFoD/Slandaar correct?

[don_johnson]

i'll clarify some points on skenvoy tomorrow morning. also try to address other things...

[DeasVail]

No, I have considered what others say and no longer think Slandaar is particularly likely to be scum.

I don't really have any town reads unfortunately and as I said before I'm hesitant to say "I have a scum read on X" with X having posted a lot while many have barely posted at all (and I know Internet Stranger hasn't said anything) and I still have unanswered questions. If I was to rank people based on something like scummy (in my opinion) behaviour : no. of posts ratio, it might look something like this:

Monk (hopefully the capitalising will make you post)
Painted
don_johnson (awaiting clarification)
Skenvoy
Metabot
[J]
Everyone else (null)
Slandaar, Guttersnipe (null-town... maybe)

As you can see, I'm very paranoid.

[J]

Yay I landed in the top 5. My I ask as to why? Can I also ask about Metabot and why DJ is so low?

[DeasVail]

Most scummy per post is top and least scummy per post is bottom according to my opinion, so you rank in 6th

I suspect you because you seem to quick to believe people are town, when only scum have much idea of who town are at this stage.

I don't think DJ is that low considering I have found monk and painted to be very scummy in their posts. I couldn't understand DJ's vote for Skenvoy, which is why he's so high.

Metabot because of weird wording in his posts, which has been pointed out by others and not commenting much on the main conflict.

[J]

Ooooh well I guess that makes sense. However, I do acquire stronger town reads than scum-reads especially on D1 so I feel that may be a discrepancy as to how I play.

Well DJ being 3rd in a game of 13 does not rank high in any manner. xD Okay, if you can't understand DJ's vote on Sken, tell me how you understand Gutter's yet have him so high of a null-leaning town read?

Can you explain more into Metabot and his weird wording?

[J]

I'm gonna make this known sooner rather than later.

I will be V/LA all of this coming week from Monday (the 7th) to Sunday(the 13th).

I am doing hell week for my theatre show I'm in so I won't be able to post much with hours of 6am-9pm at school. I am sorry if this is an inconvenience but I will try to post when I can. ^^ Have a busy week filled with my b-day, first school lead, and other things.

[DeasVail]

Good luck with everything [J]

DJ voted for Skenvoy at a time when I couldn't see why someone would find her particularly scummy, whereas Guttersnipe voted later when I think it's possible someone could legitimately find her scummy. I don't mind him not providing a reason as long as he does eventually.

Weird stuff in Metabot's post- lurking because of RL issues or something else entirely, trying to give an objective view, when it was not,

[Skenvoy]

@Deasveil, about [J]'s town read on us, I'm not sure. The main problem for me is that he shares two of my town reads (you and...me [which isn't a problem for you, as you have a scum read on me]), which I want to keep an eye on (as I'm not sure how often town's town reads coincide.)

The post where you said "rank people based on something like scummy (in my opinion) behaviour : no. of posts ratio" - how did you work that out, exactly? I'm interested.

[Skenvoy]

To clarify, the reason I'm wary is because I'm confident in my town read(s) at the moment, and I think the people who would get the reads right most often would be scum (obviously, as they actually know who town are). Therefore, I'm uncertain about anyone who's town reads coincide with mine a lot.

[DeasVail]

Nothing mathematical or anything and not to be taken too seriously. It's just what I think.

[Skenvoy]

Okay, that's cool. It sounded mathematical, what with ratios and colons.

[J]

That's really WIFOMy, Sken, and a bit too paranoid. @_@

So you feel DJ's reasoning was a bit forced whereas Gutter's came more natural based on the flow of Sken?

And thank you very much!

[DeasVail]

That's the thing. I would not expect to be such an easy town read from you

Edit based on Skenvoy post: Everything's subjective so that's as close to mathematical as it gets.

Edit based on [J]'s post: ooo, I agree with Skenvoy's posts regarding town reads and don't see it as very WIFOMy. Maybe I'm wrong though. I don't know about forced. I'm just confused by the early-ish votes on Skenvoy (after Slandaar's)

[J]

Have you two came from like a very scary/untrusting past of something where you two were burned by a game? o.o

I'm seen paranoia and distrust amongst other players but you two are making a new record for me which is amusing and fun to see because I haven't seen players like you two before. Soooo DV, you don't know where to put DJ because you have yet to hear an explanation so you put him below stronger reads because you don't have much else from him?

[Skenvoy]

I don't think it's really WIFOMy, myself - I think mafia are more likely to have correct town reads than town are. And yes, it's paranoid. I know.

I was rereading, and this stood out to me:

sken signed up. wanted out. pms were distributed. sken wanted in. is there something wrong with the timeline here? cause it makes perfect sense to me. dumb reason for a vote, but a reason nonetheless. deas is not the one making a big deal out of it. in fact, his vote post was rather subdued. the reaction to it is what has been overblown. i don't see deas "sneakily" implying anything. i think his posting is up front.

also, paint seems to be referring to sken as "she". maybe i missed the gender tag, but paint certainly seems familiar with the maiden he's whiteknighting atm.

I actually think painted replied to this a while back, but I didn't go back and check it at the time. What is interesting to me is that Deasveil has been referring to me by the correct gender as well (and knows me a hell of a lot better than painted, which I think is obvious from our posts), but DJ didn't (and hasn't) mentioned it at all. Seems a bit of a double standard to me.

[J]

Couldn't really good town have really good town reads as well?

Welp, I guess I'll have to win your guy's trust a bit harder than I do others. I like a challenge though.

How is the double-standard scummy Sken?

[Skenvoy]

That's the thing. I would not expect to be such an easy town read from you

Edit based on Skenvoy post: Everything's subjective so that's as close to mathematical as it gets.

Edit based on [J]'s post: ooo, I agree with Skenvoy's posts regarding town reads and don't see it as very WIFOMy. Maybe I'm wrong though. I don't know about forced.

I'm just confused by the early-ish votes on Skenvoy (after Slandaar's)

I don't see why - in the normal timeframe of a game, we'd still be in RVS at that point, where bandwagons often build up without reasoning. I'm not sure it was clear that we were completely out of RVS until a few posts after that.

PEdit on [J]'s post (your name is really annoying to type)
It doesn't say much unless DJ is scum, really, it's just something I wanted to point out (and I'd like DJ to comment on it when he gets on).

Yeah, really good town could have good reads as well. I just think it's less likely, especially considering that really bad scum can have good town reads without any effort at all.

[J]

Sken, just call me J. =P Everyone else does and I hate how people have to type those brackets. It's just they need 3 "letters" to make the username sooo yeah.

I agree to your point but I feel that it could go either way. I mean, I know what I am so I am biased to the fact that if you two are town, then I just am good town reading town. (Though being able to read town isn't necessarily as helpful as finding scum because there are much more of them then scum).