The Children of Húrin Mafia (GREAT REVIVAL)

[Regfan]

The fact that it was prepared by scum means your point isn't valid. Of course scum are going to fashion a VCA that gives results that are misleading. Your stance that "it was overseen by you" isn't really meaningful. I was not 'in control' of the decisions DGB made in how she weighted particular wagons or whatnot.

My stance is that scum know that VCA is likely to occur at some point during the game therefore it's entirely possible and even probable that a good scum team would account for it by making sure that VCA doesn't reflect too negatively on them when it's done.

I still have a lot more re-reading and things I want to look into but I'm comfortable moving my vote at the moment.

Unvote: Kanye, Vote: MockingJaye

[Magister Ludi]

This is a good wagon

[Mastermind of Sin]

1) You do realize how ridiculous it sounds for YOU of all people to say it's scummy to want Feysal dead, right?

Classic strawman right here. The point is not that you want Feysal dead. The point is that you want EVERY known possible Anti-Mafia power dead. Scummy to try to avoid the point. More on this in point 2.

Actually, I only want Feysal dead right now.

2) See above, but replace Feysal with S&M

.

So you still S&M are Mafia now? After the claimed shot, the flip of smarg, and the fact that we had 3 full kill flavors yesterday there is no chance that Sun and Moon are Mafia with smarg.

Are you suggesting that my stance yesterday knowing what I did know and not knowing those facts shouldn’t change coming into today?

Again ...way to strawman.

Of course I don't think S&M are mafia anymore. Once I found out that we had enough information to discount that possibility, I no longer felt that S&M was a proper lynch. How did you miss that?

3) I expected the conflicting claims to be resolved by today (due to scum/Feysal kills), but they were not so I still do not trust any of you. I never saw you say anything about being deactivated.

So you didn’t take the Town confirmed Seraph’s words that they were going to do it at face value? Still in the “People are lying about what the Seraphs say” stance that made no sense before?

??? The Seraphs said they were going to do it? I thought *you* told us about it... -_-

4) You think I'm scum for making a mistake about the mafia kill and other facts declared in thread? ...what?

You are scum for immediately pushing today on the strongerst Anti-mafia remaining powers in the game and using fraudulent facts to support your reasoning. Pretty clear. You have reading comprehension skill issues?

Clearly my powers of skimming are lacking of late.

5) How in the hell do you think I'm ignoring smarg being scum? I was one of the people pushing that fucking wagon yesterday, and in the very post you quoted to say I was scum, I address smarg being bulletproof. Here, let me quote it for you since you clearly didn't see it the first several times around:

That quote really doesn’t say anything other than you suspected that Sun and Moon lied to cover up them making a Mafia kill yesterday. Which today’s flips and subsequent claims make cleary incorrect.

In the theoretical situation where S&M was scum with smarg (which I felt was possible before I was corrected on the facts I didn't know about), it didn't make any sense for S&M to have claimed to have failed at killing smarg if smarg was NOT bulletproof. Otherwise, if smarg was lynched, there would still be holes in the story. That would have been a terrible claim. Thus, my theory very clearly took into account the fact that smarg had flipped bulletproof.

How does that quote in any way show how you were ‘pushing’ on Smarg / Esp?

Don’t worry, I’m going to go back and look at your Esp / Smarg interactions so I’ll see how your ‘push’ went.

Since when did I say that quote addressed my push on smarg? You very specifically claimed that I ignored smarg being mafia AND that I ignored smarg being bulletproof. I responded to both of those claims by a) pointing out that I had thought smarg was scum, and b) pointing out that my initial (but faulty) theory at the beginning of the day very clearly took into account that smarg had flipped bulletproof, thus proving that I had NOT, in fact, ignored the flip. My skimming may be terrible, but I at least looked at the roles of the dead, lol...

[Herodotus]

Of course I don't think S&M are mafia anymore. Once I found out that we had enough information to discount that possibility, I no longer felt that S&M was a proper lynch. How did you miss that?

To be fair, I'm pretty sure you didn't actually say that, you just responded with "oops".

On Feysal:
I feel safe assuming Feysal was telling the truth about his WC and abilities.
I also think it's clear that Feysal tried to kill Sunandmoon, and will try again tonight if he is still alive. Some may disagree, but be reasonable: killing them would probably fulfill his win condition.

On Day 2, I wanted to leave Feysal alive for two reasons. One was that he might kill scum, and the other was that scum might kill him. He was a threat to them as long as he wasn't aiming specifically at town. Now he's aiming specifically at Sunandmoon (or maybe Magna, but I'm assuming Sunandmoon), and Sun is town.

We have 2 options:
Lynch Feysal
Don't lynch Feysal

Lynching Feysal removes him from the game, lets the scum and Sunandmoon make a kill as well as letting other PR's act, then we return to day.
Not lynching Feysal means that Sunandmoon and Feysal are removed from play tonight.

I think this is just a matter of numbers. We should choose the option that maximizes the number of town-directed kills, not counting a lynch of Feysal, and provides the best information for choosing those kills. Letting town PR's take an additional action should be a tiebreaker.
If we lynch Feysal, Sunandmoon can shoot mockingjaye if they decide to (whomever we would have lynched). The scum will probably kill Sunandmoon, but they would otherwise be killing someone else. On the other hand, Sunandmoon would lose an opportunity to shoot the "next" person after Mockingjaye. So at this point, I think the number of kills would work out the same either way. But we could get an extra round of other actions if we lynch Feysal.

Someone check my calculations. Or let me know if I'm wrong despite my calculations.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Herodotus: Feysal claims that he did NOT try to kill Sun & Moon, so why do you believe everything else he's told us about himself but think he's lying about targeting WoW directly?

[kanyeknowsbest]

imho lynching feysal is the incorrect choice. scum need to decide tonight whether or not feysal was telling the truth about targeting wow or not. then they need to decide if feysal will target amrun tonight. if feysal holds off on killing amrun and scum bank on him killing amrun, our vig lives another night. if feysal guns down amrun and scum decide not to risk it and take amrun out themselves then we still end up ahead in town directed kills. if we lynch feysal there is no ambiguity in the night kill and scum have a no brainer to shoot amrun.

[Amrun]

I guess MoI is also another Turin, though. There's that.

[Furcolow]

Feysal isn't scum
It's confirmed he's not scum
He is either a town vig or an SK based on my ability

[Mastermind of Sin]

SKs are scum.

[Furcolow]

Honestly, with scum + myself + Feysal, we have the ability to not allow the town to lynch anyone this round.
However, I can win without scum, too.

[Amrun]

Do you know how many scum there are, Furcolow?

[Furcolow]

I can guess

[Amrun]

What's your guess?

[Furcolow]

The more I am analyzing it, the more I feel 3rd party like Feysal and I need to help scumhunt with the town

[Furcolow]

I'm guessing 4-5 scum that know each other, obviously with a few 3rd party (survivor, cult, SK, lyncher, whatever)

[Nachomamma8]

OH SHIT I claimed because CSL told me someone had a guilty on us, but I just realized that MoI also claimed Turin!

That most likely means he's scum, but I suppose I could conceive of a possibility where there were two Turins, due to bastard game ... I am not sure scum would claim here like this.

BUT ... two Turins is not something we should probably trust, so MoI is most likely also scum.

This is good.

Even if I am lynched for this, which I shouldn't be, but even if I am, hopefully my death can accomplish something in this counterclaim.

-Amrun

p-edit:

I didn't claim cop, so I only see one level of counterclaim.

I AM a miller, so him claiming a guilty on me isn't automatically scum.

Vote: Sun and Moon

[Plum]

Next day the King sat upon his throne in his court,, and about hm were all the chiefs and elders of Doriath. Then many witnesses were heard, and of those Mablung spoke most and clearest. And as he told of the quarrel at the table, it seemed to the King that Mablung's heart leaned to Túrin.

'You speak as a friend of Túrin son of Húrin?' said Thingol. 'I was, but I have loved truth more and longer,' Mablung answered. 'Hear me to the end, lord!'

The Children of Húrin 93

VOTE COUNT #4.2

Nachomamma8 - 1 - Gut
Feysal - 3 - Empking, Andrius, Mastermind of Sin
mockingjaye -

4

- kanyeknowsbest, Magister Ludi, MagnaofIllusion, Regfan
kanyeknowsbest - 2 - mockingjaye, Furcolow
Sun and Moon - 1 - Nachomamma8

Not Voting (3): Sun and Moon, Feysal, Herodotus

With 14 alive it will take 8 votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day 4 will be in approximately (but no fewe2 than) 13 days and will be exactly determined soon.

[Herodotus]

Herodotus: Feysal claims that he did NOT try to kill Sun & Moon, so why do you believe everything else he's told us about himself but think he's lying about targeting WoW directly?

The reason I believe that he tried to kill Sun and Moon is because I believe what he said about his win conditions. If you knew that your sole remaining goal in the game was to make sure Player X died before you, and you had a NK ability, and two doctors were already dead, would you think twice about using your NK on Player X?
And if you had said previously that you were going to kill Player Y (Dekes), would you instead kill Player Z (Willow)?
So why has he not admitted to targeting Player X? Because he expects that we would more likely lynch him for that than for killing Willow.

Kanyek, the scum didn't shoot Feysal when they had a reason to think he would aim to kill scum. Now they have a reason to think he will attempt to kill a townie; they aren't going to kill him.

Amrun has a point. There's some small chance that Feysal's role doesn't specify which of the two claimed Turin roles Feysal needs to outlive, making it dangerous for Feysal to aim at either of them and risk being lynched after hitting the wrong one. But consider that Magna and you both made a full nameclaim, and Feysal's role likely does give an exact name. (Let me mention again how it was a bad idea for Magna to nameclaim, if he's town. Especially with a role in the game that might want to kill him.)

One feature of a Feysal lynch is that it would guarantee that at least one of Magna or Sunandmoon would be able to survive Night 4 -- meaning either Magna would be around to share his N4 investigation or Sunandmoon would be able to kill on Night 5. That's not guaranteed if we lynch mockingjaye/Nacho/other (as opposed to letting Sunandmoon vig the one we would have lynched).

[Gut]

Vote: Sun and Moon

How is this guy not lynched already?

[Herodotus]

[quote="In post 2014, Furcolow"][/quote]
currently alive, or including smargaret?

[Gut]

currently alive, or including smargaret?

What did you just do to do that?

[Gut]

NVM, I know this glitch already.

[kanyeknowsbest]

Kanyek, the scum didn't shoot Feysal when they had a reason to think he would aim to kill scum. Now they have a reason to think he will attempt to kill a townie; they aren't going to kill him.

not once did i refer to feysal getting shot?

[Herodotus]

Oh, right. To address what you said:

Well, the scum are going to shoot someone, whether it's sunandmoon or some other townie. The most obvious shot would be Magna, if he's town, based on his ability that I assume Faramina will restore at the end of the day. But regardless, dead townie.

And the way I see it, Feysal is likely to shoot sunandmoon tonight if he's able, so I don't expect the fear of an overlap to save him.

[Andrius]

I'VE BEEN DRINKING SO THIS WILL BE SHORT AND SWEET BUT NACHO I LVOE YOU MAN AND AM LIKE <333333 THAT YOU'RE HERE
GAME IS NOW A HUNDRED TIMES BETTER
ALL WE NEED IS VAS TO COME BACK
YESSSSSSS
NACHO IS HERE
ALL WE DO IS WIN WIN WIN NO MATTER WHAT