Mini Game 18 (Time Travel Mafia) - Game Over

[Lucresia]

First, let me:
Vote: Mathcam

I really hate when people vote for themselves.

[Polotet]

There is no detriment to the mafia if they vote for themself when they are dead already. There just isn't.

[mathcam]

First, Lucresia, I'm not voting for myself out of apathy or because I want the game to end faster. The game is setup in such a way that it's in the citizens' advantage to agree that everyone should vote for themselves if they're going to die anyway. It's not that I don't care about the game or anything. This game is very different than others you have played before...people voting for themselves in non-time-travel game is stupid and often game-ruining, I agree. This, however, is not the case here.

There is no detriment to the mafia if they vote for themself when they are dead already. There just isn't.

Polotet, this is going to come out harsher than its intended, so I apologize in advance, but you just don't get it, do you? Time travel mafia is different from normal mafia. This is the whole reason why we've been striving for near-unanimous voting. If you didn't understand this point, you really should have brought it up earlier. As persuasive as your argument "It just doesn't" is, IT DOES HURT THE MAFIA TO VOTE FOR THEMSELVES!!! Every vote that we get against a mafia is another person they have to kill in order to bring that person back to life. It's that simple. (In case this is news to you, the mafia can go back in time and kill the people that voted to kill their co-mafia members, thus altering the timeline in a way that resurrect their fallen comrade).

As I am theoretically dead by the time is going to be posted, I'll have to leave it to Jeep or ambic or other people to explain to you...people who have spent more time thinking about the deeper implications of their actions. If you're a townsperson, for the love of God, reread the original post by Cuban Smoker.

Incidentally, I would be glad to discuss this point further with anyone after the game, should anyone care to. (Or if I miraculously am resurrected via a quirk of the time-travel system).

Farewell,

Cam

[Polotet]

I'm actually understanding your point better now, and I've realized you actually do have a point. You were right, I didn't quite get it. I now don't believe that this plan is completely bad. I still don't feel it would be helpful, on the whole, because it would be that much harder, then, to unlynch dead people who have good or town roles. I'm also wondering if CS will count self-votes for the purpose of unlynching someone.

[Gaspode]

Cam, I am one of those who say that you are just a townie with some really stupid ideas. Your actions seem to be very pro-town in intention, and your idea of voting for oneself sort of makes sense. The only reason I don't support it is that it might cause more complications. My plan is better. If all bandwagons are completely eliminated by the time a lynching takes place, then the mafia would never be able to get a double lynch, no matter how many people they go back and kill. As long as only one person has votes, we don't have to deal with this vote-for-myself stuff. Also, if you voted for yourself after a "warning post", you would lynch yourself, which makes no sense at all.

[mathcam]

You do have a very valid point that it would be harder to unlynch dead townspeople. This was the thing I was the least sure about concerning my plan, and I wish we had spent more time discussing it. I kind of feel that it's much easier for the mafia, though, so that should be the real concern. We simply

can't

win if they can bring back the mafia that were lynched during the day, but we (hopefully) still have a shot at winning without a townsperson, so that's why I thought it was important. I also don't have a good feel for what townspeople roles are even out there and the extent to which we can bring people back. It may be minimal, so I still think the plan helps. In either case, thanks for getting it, though. I can die a happy man.

You also have a good point about CS maybe not counting votes. I think given that 90% of the discussion so far has concerned this particular nuance, though, he probably would have said something to that effect if he were not going to count them.

I actually think that given that my plan only works with agreement from essentially all of the townspeolpe, and given that the plan doesn't seem to have that support, it probably isn't the wisest plan for me to vote for myself. But, I think we would lose too much time re-lynching me if the mafia chose to kill people so that I came back alive. Plus, Dragon Slayer and his incorrigible Dragon Slayer logic would have a field day in his next reply about how I betrayed even my own OMGUS system, so my vote stands.

I apologize, Cuban Smoker, if I should have shut up by now because I'm suppose to be dead...I assumed there would be a notification of some kind.

Cam

[mathcam]

Okay, I swear this is my last post, assuming I don't come back alive tomorrow or something.

Cam, I am one of those who say that you are just a townie with some really stupid ideas. Your actions seem to be very pro-town in intention, and your idea of voting for oneself sort of makes sense.

It seems like there's a difference between "sort of makes sense" and "really stupid." In either case, there is no doubt in my mind that your plan is correct. I've felt that way since the beginning, when I made the first argument that we should all decide only to lynch with very large majorities. Your plan is exactly the kind of thing I had in mind. The plan I present is only a small addendum to this plan, intended to ever so slightly improve the odds of the townspeople. I am unaware of any complications created by this plan, but if there are some, I wish you had informed me of them earlier. What additional complications have been created by me voting yes on myself? I don't see any. I suppose complications have been created if you're mafia, for if you vote yes then you make it harder for your comrades to resurrect you and if you vote no then you're a dead give-away, but that's exactly what we want...for the mafia to not know what to do.

Okay, final messages, as I'm sure you're all annoyed of me already:

Don't necessarily lynch Dragon Slayer or Ambic tomorrow, just because you find out I'm a townsperson (via the coroner, Dragon Slayer). (If it does turn out that I'm a mafia, definitely lynch Ambic). DO go after people who have not made an effort to discern an optimal strategy for the townspeople. Remember that the mafia have probably decided to kill many people all on one night. So I would expect that in a couple of nights, we'll lose three or four townspeople. So protective and life-giving roles, think very carefully before you act. There is an optimal strategy, you just have to find it.

Cam

[Gaspode]

You do have a very valid point that it would be harder to unlynch dead townspeople.

That's all I meant by complications, Cam.

Ok, now for the main part of my post. I hate to make such a desperate defense of someone else, as they usually look suspicious, but WHY ARE YOU CRAZY PEOPLE STILL VOTING FOR MATHCAM Isn't it obvious that he's just a newbie who's trying to help the town? If you're still not convinced, read this:

(If it does turn out that I'm a mafia, definitely lynch Ambic).

How could a mafioso be so stupid that he tells the town to lynch his comrade? As I said, Cam must be town.

If he turns out to be mafia, I will obviously look suspicious, but we CANNOT afford to lose townies in this game, which someone (Corsato, maybe?) described as the toughest we will ever play. Just look back at mathcam's posts, and you'll see that he's acting very pro-town. So please, keep this innocent townie alive, we need as many as we can get.

Question: who is the person who claimed coroner, because mathcam has talked about two different people who he thinks claimed it.

P.S. Mathcam, if you somehow miraculously live through this day, please spare us from the humongous posts. I can't stand them anymore!

[Gaspode]

I just noticed how long my last post was. I'm such a hypocrite.

[jeep]

The reason people aren't unvoting Mathcam is that the deadline is upon us and it would be dangerous for us to unvote him. We need everyone to move quickly, and that is not likely to happen. I would be willing to switch to Ambic, but at this point it would be bad for me to switch.

Also, someone said that the mod would have told us if voting for oneself would not be counted, but that is not true. The mod should only answer questions directed at him/her. If the mod were to correct every piece of incorrect information stated, then the game would be unbalanced. That said:

mod: Do votes for oneself count in the vote tally?

-JEEP

[Polotet]

Gaspode, he could well be lying about the whole ambic thing. People say whatever they want. I still think it's very possible that he is evil.

[Gaspode]

Well, I can't change your minds now, so

vote: mathcam

in order to have a big majority. If he's innocent, you all deserve a big fat "I TOLD YOU SO!"

[jeep]

Wow, looks like this day isn't ending, yet. So I'll try:

unvote: mathcam ; vote: ambic

. It looks safe enough for now, althou7gh I recommend that not everyone switch (until we figure out when this day is going to end). When we get an update about when day is ending, we can see if it's safe for us to all switch to Ambic.

-JEEP

[Dragon Slayer]

Errrgg... I believe mathcam is probly innocent but I'd rather not unvote (we need a high amount seeing that he's going to be lynched anyway. Dorry it would be an unvote but like I said....... At first when you explained your whole vote yourself thing (and for a while after) it sounded very very...... well.. stupid, senseless, and any other words that fit. But in a couple recent posts you've made a small (not game defining) point to your idea. I really would unvote ya if it wouldn't hurt the town... no, really .

But that doesn't mean I completely give in to him . Well, now that I said that I sure hope your townie.

[Gaspode]

Everyone pm CS so we can extend the deadline and switch votes to ambic.

[Gaspode]

BTW, I'll switch my vote as soon as CS extends that deadline, but until he does that, we need a big majority.

[cuban smoker]

You guys were probably all wondering where I was... I usually check this board numerous times in the day. Suffice to say, I was away from the ol' grey box. Well, end day has come and gone. There will be no deadline extension.

The quiet town, passionately debating their current situation, decide to rid themselves of one of the younger men in town. Although it is clear that most people didn't

want

to kill mathcam, somebody had to be lynched... So the executioner silently marches the condemned to the gallows, and symbolically ends another day.

mathcam has been lynched.

It is now night. Send choices.

[cuban smoker]

Votes against yourself do count for the vote tally.

FYI, mathcam was lynched with 8 votes. Nearest competitor, 1 vote.

[cuban smoker]

Because it is relevant, here is the official day end vote count for Day 1 (note, no votes after the OFFICIAL end of day were counted):

8 mathcam (BigFella, Corsato, Dragon Slayer, jeep, Lucresia, mathcam, mikegoo, Polotet)
1 Corsato (ambic)
1 mikegoo (Green Crayons)
1 Polotet (Werebear)

no vote: Gaspode

[cuban smoker]

Night 2 DEATH SCENE

Late at night, most of the town slept. However, one restless soul, BigFella was out stretching his legs. A little high-strung from the previous day, he mulled over the lynching of mathcam. Maybe he would try and break into mathcam’s house to figure out just who he was…

As he approached mathcam’s house, he began feeling uneasy… peering through a window, he didn’t notice the person creeping up behind him.

“I see you were interested as well…”

BigFella jumped and turned around to face the stranger. Shrouded in darkness, he couldn’t make out the face.

“I… I was just looking…”

“Mmm… so was I… the door is securely locked. It’s not worth it to try and get in.”

His heartbeat slowing, BigFella turned back to the window. The stranger suggested they go around back, and look for a window they might be able to get in through. As they went around the house, the stranger slowly drew a gun, and extended his arm. BigFella did not hear the shots, and the leaves on the ground muffled his fall…

BigFella has been murdered. It is now day.

End of Day in 1 week’s time, Saturday December 14th, at 1pm (-0500).

(Note: there are no clues hidden in my death scenes. I just like writing little stories.)

[cuban smoker]

History as of this post:

Mathcam lynched on Day 1
BigFella murdered on Night 2

Alive (10):
ambic
Corsato
Dragon Slayer
Gaspode
Green Crayons
jeep
Lucresia
mikegoo
Polotet
Werebear

[ambic]

RIght: Bad News first.

Mathcam was a trainee time cop. He at a certain (unknown to me) point in the game would become active.

Good News:

We are down 1 scum. BigFella was mafia - presumably killed by a serial killer.

If specific mafia have to be sent out to kill, this may have diffused a later kill, so we may have gotten lucky.

And I will

vote Jeep

to kick off the morning. Jeep was clearly anti my role - and I would like to add I was under no pressure to come out. The secondary reason I came out (Im not reiterating the 1st - it still stands) is that should I die my results cannot be unpublished. This means if the mafia have to time travel to kill me, it wont do them much use - especially if we can start raising the dead.

I suggest we try to keep BigFella dead. If we can get Mathcam back it would be useful, but I think that it is a lost cause at the moment.

[Lucresia]

We are down 1 scum. BigFella was mafia - presumably killed by a serial killer.

Well last night, from what I have found out, it was a vigilante.

[Werebear]

Vote: Green Crayons

.

[Green Crayons]

Mmmm. That's nice, Werebear. Any reason why you're suddenly jumping into this game with a vote? I guess an "OMGUS" will do just fine. Crap vote for crap vote.

Vote: Werebear