#335 Road to Perdition - Finiretur (<- Over)

[Primate]

Well, this is going to set our game behind a lot.

What an odd thing to say Masterchief.

Yes, you're right, it will set back this lynch. What a crying shame we won't be able to lynch this person as quickly as you obviously wanted to. Now we might have actually some discussion, perish the thought.

Waggles

Fos

at Masterchief.

[Masterchief]

I was only saying because when stuff like this happens, some games last for months. I'm current;y in one that's lasted for months. Geez, don't jump to conclusions.

[Coron]

There is something wrong with lasting for months?

[Masterchief]

Well, not really. It's just it wouldn't seem right to last for so long. Also, most mods usually put a deadline and if they did, that would lead to unnessasary lynching, possibley random, which as we all know, only makes things worse. So here fore that would most likely lead them to a win. i man, that's just a guess. But, if you want it to last for a long time, then fine. I'm just saying it would be a little awkward is all.

[rajrhcpfreak]

ok, we can continue to wait for a replacement.....

or we can discuss TB's claim and his actions.

[Mackay]

Why only TB's? My problem was with his dishonest arguing, and I can't really continue to talk about that if he's not doing it. It's pretty blatantly obvious that I'd be perfectly happy lynching him. Worst case scenario, he's telling the truth and we lose a vanilla townie. Certainly much less damaging, at least, than losing a power role. But I honestly don't think that is the case, as I see no reason for a pro-town player to make such manipulative arguments.

Who else do you find scummy, raj?

Masterchief, btw, thanks for the response to my earlier question. Very helpful. I'd thought maybe having read the thread all at once without diving in, you'd be able to see more. *shrug*

I apologise if this post is very jerky in tone. I'm extremely tired.

I mean jerky like awkward, but I guess I'm a bit of a jerk too

[rajrhcpfreak]

im happy with lynching TB or his replacement.

other scummy people... i did fos ibby but i didnt think it was too major though.

thats all i have before tonite.

[Masterchief]

@Mackay: What question did I answer?

[Mackay]

I addressed a particular question to you and Connor - just wondering what/who stood out to you upon your first reading of the thread. It's not important anyway, I was just a bit cranky about your response ("That everyone started out with a random lynch."), as you had been very insightful otherwise, and it struck me as an unhelpful response. I don't think you meant it that way though, it was more me being tired and cranky and slightly frustrated by the sudden silence.

I'd like to hear from Connor, though... not so much a response as

anything at all

...

[Masterchief]

Oh. Well I was tired and also I found it odd that everyone would start with a random lynch. I thought they would wait for everyone to say something first, but I guess not.

[wintergreen]

I'm fine with waiting awhile for a replacement. And another thing, I should mention something that occured to me as I was falling asleep last night.

TB claimed townie without mentioning a character name, which one would think that if he were eager to prove his innocence, he would have. So is this behavior scummy? Just an oversight?

But suppose that in this game, themed as it might be, the vanilla townies don't, in fact, have character names assigned to them--something to throw us off, or maybe Road to Perdition just didn't have that many "innocent" named characters, both of which might be the case. Anyway, I will back this up and go ahead and say that the townies do not have names. If you look closely you might agree3...

In that case, it is a little more likely (but not guaranteed) that he was telling the truth. It doesn't completely add up, but I'll have to think about it more.

[connor]

i'm really sorry about this but i have realy messed the internet up on my laptop so im using the big computer it should be back to norm now

[zu_Faul]

Seems like we've got a problem. I'm going on vacation in... 5 hours and I haven't found a replacement yet.
I intend to let this game running. It is your responsibility to check the number of votes. If a player is lynched, stop posting. I'll be back on Thursday, 6th July.

I'm sorry for the trouble this causes. If you want to drop out of the game, send me a pm.

[Thesp]

With apologies to TB, I sincerely doubt anyone else would be a better lynch, and I think a replacement won't be in any better position. Why not just lynch TB?

[Masterchief]

With apologies to TB, I sincerely doubt anyone else would be a better lynch, and I think a replacement won't be in any better position. Why not just lynch TB?

As much sense as that made,

FoS:Thesp

for saying we should lynch tehm rather than wait. Oh by the way, I'll be going on vacation on July 6th, so just letting zu_faul know.

[Primate]

Personally, I think TB's being a bit imaginitive with the truth in his claim.

Lynching him probably would be the best play for the minute. But if we decide to wait a bit for the replacement, or just for the Mod, I would quite like the extra time to discuss something else.

Specifically Wintergreen, who is sending my scumdar crazy. I'm not really a fan of giving the scum the oppurtunity to talk though, so I want to either put all my argument on this side of the night or the other side of the night. If we're gonna lynch TB though, then I'll wait.

[Mackay]

Wintergreen, the problem with that is, if the mafia simply got PMs saying "you are the mafia" they'd know that there was no need to elaborate upon a role claim. I don't think that some roles would be given character names, and others not. Your having made the lack-of-townies-having-role-names public is appreciated, though, for this reason:

FOS: Primate

for failing to pick up on it. Just in case I'm wrong about some characters having names and others not. He has come out saying you're setting off his scumdar, indicating that he did not pick up on your "townie" hint - indicating that he is probably not a townie.

While I'm slinging FOSes, another one goes out to Masterchief - for FOSing somebody and stating that they "make sense" in the same sentence.

I personally wouldn't mind the TB quicklynch, if only because it saves our having to replace him, and also yields some valuable information at this time. Let it be known, by the way, that "wouldn't mind" does not mean I'm fully in support of it - I'm basically indifferent to whether we replace TB, or just lynch. There are other people of interest to have come up recently, though, so a replacement might be nice.

It would be nice to hear more from connor, and also Ibaesha. There are probably others who have been quiet recently - the game has rather stalled - but from what I hear, Ibby has good instincts, and connor just needs to get his act together.

[Mackay]

Before anyone starts attacking me for behaving as though I "know" wintergreen is a townie (well, that's what I'd do to myself, at least ), I do trust her at this point. The only reasons I can imagine for her to come out like that with an indirect roleclaim in protection of someone who was looking very scummy are a) she's a townie who sees what she believes to be a clue to his innocence and tries to prevent a mislynch, or b) he's a scumbuddy and she's exposed herself to try and protect him.

I do not think b) is the case, because her vote was already upon TB. I figure if she'd be blatant enough to try to help a scum-buddy like that, she'd be blatant enough to not be voting for him. Also, she seemed to find him suspicious enough for a vote, but it did seem to fizzle after he claimed townie. I think it checks out.

I generally try to keep assumptions out of my mafia posts, but that one slipped in unintentionally. I think she made it pretty obvious that she was claiming to be vanilla townie, and that her behaviour is consistent with what a townie would do - and I think that Primate's having ignored this is quite telling.

[Masterchief]

Quite a long explanation for so simple a mistake don't you think?

[ibaesha]

First of all, I don't find Thesp's suggestion suspicious at all. Considering the situation of a suspicious person who has claimed vanilla townie, a stalling game and the need of his replacement, it makes perfect sense. I wonder if Masterchief thought this all the way through before making that FoS. At any rate, it sends up a bit of an alarm bell to me about Masterchief. This type of thing makes me wonder if he's trying to -look- pro-town by FoSing.

Now, onto wintergreen. Mackay makes a decent arguement for her, and had I not already had a suspicion of some tie between TB and wintergreen, I would agree. However, I would like to bring up my FoS on wintergreen in this scenario, simply because I noted a possible tie between TB and wintergreen earlier.

I could make some comments and respond to things you addressed to other people, but I won't. They can do that for themselves. I will, however, make an observation. With the ferocity you showed towards myself and Mackay, I would expect SOME suspicion of the 5th person to join your wagon. (Actually, I'd expect you to freak out considering your 'style') Especially when it's obviously a follow the wagon vote that put you two away from a lynch.

Something is up with that. Not sure which way.
FOS: wintergreen

Because of this, I'm not willing to dismiss Mackay's scenario b at all.

Since we now have two vanilla claims out of my top two suspicions, I'm fairly content with the idea of lynching TB today. Pursuing anyone other than him or wintergreen at this point would draw out a third claim of the day and possibly out a power role.

[wintergreen]

Mackay, your observations are right on. I did expect to get a lot of backlash for the obliqueness of my last post, which has happened to an extent, but I'll be willing to discuss various points and doubts that people might have.

As before, I'm not entirely sure of TB's innocence; his behavior still seemed rather scummy, but the point I noticed about his claim doesn't quite fit in with all that. I realized that at that point, if he was telling the truth, I was possibly the only other player who could corroborate the fact that townies did not have names, and it would have been unfair to everyone if I did not mention it. And if he had been lying and it was only coincidence that he didn't mention a name, then it's just my luck...

@Primate, does that clear up any of your suspicion? If you still want to wait until the following day to discuss this, that is also fine.

@Ibby, I can't speak for TB and what he might have been thinking, but it is possible that he did not want to draw out an argument because I did not have much internet access that week (which was also a factor for the undesired shortness of my posts, which I know made them seem somewhat more unsubstantiated, but circumstances were outside my control).

[Masterchief]

There's nothing wrong with FoSing. I'm just giving out my suspicoins. That is what FoSing is right?

[Thesp]

First of all, I don't find Thesp's suggestion suspicious at all. Considering the situation of a suspicious person who has claimed vanilla townie, a stalling game and the need of his replacement, it makes perfect sense. I wonder if Masterchief thought this all the way through before making that FoS. At any rate, it sends up a bit of an alarm bell to me about Masterchief. This type of thing makes me wonder if he's trying to -look- pro-town by FoSing.

This is 100% accurate. Let's please kill TB. That gives us the most info right now, too.

[Mackay]

Quite a long explanation for so simple a mistake don't you think?

It wasn't a "mistake", except in that I tend to keep my assumptions/suspicions to myself until I feel there is enough justification. For instance, I've got a horrible gut feeling about someone who's acted quite pro-town so far, but I'm not going to listen to it until I see something suspicious coming from them. My reason for not wanting to reveal who I believe is innocent should be fairly obvious. Seeing as I did reveal my feelings on this particular matter, I felt I should offer an explanation, so that people would not think it was an implicit assumption. Of course, that's rather counterproductive, as I knew even as I was posting that it would simply draw attention to the assumption. Nonetheless I'd rather not have left it there.. if I'm going to get in trouble for it, it's better that it happen now than late in the game.

If wintergreen turns out to be evil, then you can call it a mistake.

And yes, my explanations tend to be lengthy. See: this post.

[Mackay]

Ibaesha: Understood, and if TB turns up guilty, she will be worth a look - as will chaotic_diablo (though that one seems a little

too

obvious). The behaviour just doesn't ring scummy to me, though some of her past behaviour did.

Thesp: Again, my vote's there already, and I'm all for the info.

Masterchief:

There's nothing wrong with FoSing. I'm just giving out my suspicoins. That is what FoSing is right?

No, there's nothing wrong with FoSing. The issue people have is with the fact that you simultaneously appeared to agree with a person's statement, and cast suspicion upon them for the same statement. It's a contradictory action, and it reeks of someone not willing to take a definite side until they see which way the majority is leaning.