NY 150: Mob Money Mafia GAME OVER

[Nachomamma8]

@chkflip - If Damon_Gang flops scum, I'm definitely

not

his partner. End of story. No scumpartners' going to vote their buddy at least 3 times over the course of the game.

I mean, I would. Anything for the WIFOMs.
In any case, you're not scum, so it's not really something we need to be talkin' about right now.

[Damon_Gant]

No, I didn't. Not in this topic, nor the old one. Slightly naive, I didn't really think to do it, and I was hoping that when I claimed I was going to be able to claim on my own terms. Obviously it didn't work out like that.

The reason he wanted it to be on his own terms is this (I know, because I've gone through the

exact

same thing) - He's scum. He's planned to eventually fakeclaim at some point in the game. BAM! Site crashes. Nothing's going on. Well, the best thing to do is claim, to help the town.

*Doing this [fakeclaiming earlier than expected] makes the fakeclaim that much harder to pull off, therefore making that person wish it'd been on his/her own terms.*

Yet another reason I do not buy his claim.

Or maybe I was saying that I didn't want to claim at all today, because I'm imminently going to get roleblocked/killed? Is that not a more logical interpretation of my words? I know it doesn't fit with the picture you're trying to paint, but still.

I of course think the lynch on me would be silly, even if you think there is some strategic element that makes it ok even if I'm really the cop - Nacho got this one right. Claiming cop as scum at the moment I did would be foolish to the extreme - no reason to do that at all, and it would have put me at the liability of counter-claims. And if I'm scum, I'm not surviving to the endgame by any stretch. Thing is, I'm not, and so what will happen is I'm killed/roleblocked and nothing useful comes out of me. That's the penalty that I accepted when I claimed.

I'll defend my play strategically until the grave. Notice that we're able to have a civilised conversation at our own pace about this now and not make any rash decisions. Also notice how the game has seriously livened up since my claim - it was pretty much dead beforehand. I'm not saying that it was the only play in that situation, but I felt as I was on near everyone's scumlist that it was inevitable that eventually everyone - even the people who preferred other lynches - would compromise on me. And if that was going to happen, then what I did has been beneficial to the town. But this is all an aside really. Whether it was a good play or not is not really the question. For all of you, the question is was it a town or a scum play, and I say considering that there was no pressure on me to claim at that moment, the answer is clearly town.

[Andycyca]

This game is a disaster. This situation is ridiculous. We have 5 days, and we really have not moved forward from when this game restarted. I sincerely apologise for having to do this, but I see no way to change this game right now in the town's favour other than claiming. I'm the cop.

What the hell? Honestly, I know this game is going at a *very* slow pace (and yes, I'm aware of my very low posting rate) but I don't think this was necessary. Something about this claim irks me, but it's more a gut feeling. I don't think this was the best thing to do for the town right now, as it will most likely give us headaches later. I'd rather have pushed for a lynch.

---

VOTE: DamonGant

That's all I have to say about that.

Sly's vote on me is irritating.

What is really irritating is when a cop's role is rendered useless because someone 5 votes from being lynched on Day 1 wants to claim because they can't "see no way to change this game right now in the town's favour other than claiming". There is no protown reason to basically take the cop role out of the game on D1 unpressured. You're either scum that's trying to pull some BS, or you are a lame duck cop that should be lynched for screwing the town out of a cop.

I partially agree with Sly here. I too think there were other ways of speeding up this game and the only way this claim will be useful is if tomorrow Damon gives us an investigation result. If we get no results there are a number of possible theories to go about it and with no real proof for any one of them, we'll reach a dead end soon.

However, I don't think Damon should be lynched, at least not today.

---

On another line, I just found out kondi's replies have all been one liners, note very helpful, but nothing too suspicious.

---

Are you serious? Why would scum, that had votes on them, want to encourage discussion?

I DON'T KNOW, TO GET THE ATTENTION OFF OF HIM. HMMMMMMM.

Hardcore defense is hardcore; Gant flips scum, you're definitely his buddy.

UNVOTE: Lowell
VOTE: Damon_Gant

Much better vote right now. Pins two people instead of one. #LoveIt

A few questions about this vote:

1. Do you see both Lowell and Damon as (potential) scum?
2. Do you think Damon is a better lynch today than Lowell just because of his cop claim? If not, is it for something else?
3. Have you considered the possibility that Damon might be right and we might lynch him D1?

[Lowell]

So, wait, I'm supposed to remember what I thought before the site crash? Or were the roles reshuffled?

[Lowell]

Anyway I don't remember sheet about last incarnation; I'm starting over.

damon is pretty obviously town... not sure what folks are missing there. mcqueen is town as well, despite his confusion.

vote mastin

. Not even going to pretend this isn't obvious. the careful pandering to the "omg maybe damon is scum" faction is weak and uncharacteristic.

fos andy

: fake indignation about meta-issues doesn't do much.

I'll get to you other idiots later.

[Nachomamma8]

So, wait, I'm supposed to remember what I thought before the site crash? Or were the roles reshuffled?

Did you get a new role PM?

[Lowell]

I did for some games and didn't for others. Couldn't remember which this was offhand. But indeed, upon reflection, I do not see a new PM, so that was an unnecessary question.

[projectmatt]

Lowell is a boring vote. I won't say it's wrong though; just boring.

Why flip from sly at the first hint of a new wagon though, Mastin? Bandwagon much?

@DG: did you crumb cop? I believe your claim, but a crumb would be an added bonus.

Why do you believe his claim?

VOTE: Pizza

Comparing Lowell and Pizza's dreadful ISOs, I believe Pizza's is more indicative of scum, although not by a ton.

Is there any specific reason people are choosing a Lowell vote over a Pizza vote?

Hi, BB! It's nice to play with you again. It's a shame you're probably scum because this post is incredibly awkward in tone. Who did you replace again?

VOTE: DamonGant

That's all I have to say about that.

Let's not get hasty.

Sly's vote on me is irritating.

What is really irritating is when a cop's role is rendered useless because someone 5 votes from being lynched on Day 1 wants to claim because they can't "see no way to change this game right now in the town's favour other than claiming". There is no protown reason to basically take the cop role out of the game on D1 unpressured. You're either scum that's trying to pull some BS, or you are a lame duck cop that should be lynched for screwing the town out of a cop.

This logic is bad. You're seriously recommending a lynch on Damon not because you scumread him, but because he's playing badly if he's town? Come on. An unprovoked cop claim is play I wouldn't exactly expect Damon to do as mafia and you wanting to lynch him because "he's bad lol" is terrible and you are better than this.

I'm only talking like that because you're trying to push me to "vote one of my scumreads" when that's precisely what I'm doing. And you really can't say you're not, the connotation and decorum in 139 AND 141.

But thanks for making this conversation go on longer than it needed to.

This conversation will last as long as it needs to. Conversation is probably the least harmful thing the town can have.

The short of it is that after one post I, in your shoes, would certainly not be able to judge lowell as a scumread and lynchworthy after his one meagre post.
If Lowell flips town then I'm going to seriously suspect you tomorrow amigo after this shoddy sheeping

Have you played with Chkflip before?

Self-mata

Saying "lol self meta" to justify a fair point against your reads is silly.

This game is a disaster. This situation is ridiculous. We have 5 days, and we really have not moved forward from when this game restarted. I sincerely apologise for having to do this, but I see no way to change this game right now in the town's favour other than claiming. I'm the cop.

What the hell? Honestly, I know this game is going at a *very* slow pace (and yes, I'm aware of my very low posting rate) but I don't think this was necessary. Something about this claim irks me, but it's more a gut feeling. I don't think this was the best thing to do for the town right now, as it will most likely give us headaches later. I'd rather have pushed for a lynch.

---

VOTE: DamonGant

That's all I have to say about that.

Sly's vote on me is irritating.

What is really irritating is when a cop's role is rendered useless because someone 5 votes from being lynched on Day 1 wants to claim because they can't "see no way to change this game right now in the town's favour other than claiming". There is no protown reason to basically take the cop role out of the game on D1 unpressured. You're either scum that's trying to pull some BS, or you are a lame duck cop that should be lynched for screwing the town out of a cop.

I partially agree with Sly here. I too think there were other ways of speeding up this game and the only way this claim will be useful is if tomorrow Damon gives us an investigation result. If we get no results there are a number of possible theories to go about it and with no real proof for any one of them, we'll reach a dead end soon.

However, I don't think Damon should be lynched, at least not today.

---

On another line, I just found out kondi's replies have all been one liners, note very helpful, but nothing too suspicious.

---

Are you serious? Why would scum, that had votes on them, want to encourage discussion?

I DON'T KNOW, TO GET THE ATTENTION OFF OF HIM. HMMMMMMM.

Hardcore defense is hardcore; Gant flips scum, you're definitely his buddy.

UNVOTE: Lowell
VOTE: Damon_Gant

Much better vote right now. Pins two people instead of one. #LoveIt

A few questions about this vote:

1. Do you see both Lowell and Damon as (potential) scum?
2. Do you think Damon is a better lynch today than Lowell just because of his cop claim? If not, is it for something else?
3. Have you considered the possibility that Damon might be right and we might lynch him D1?

This post irks me the wrong way.

Analysis:

This game is slow moving and boring.

Analysis #2:

We need momentum.

Conclusion:

Let's make this game actually worth playing. We could start by gathering around and sharing all of our reads in depth with reasoning. I'll do mine later.

[Twistedspoon]

@PM: yes I have played with chkflip before

do I belie DG's claim? Considering he hasn't been CC'd i find it plausible, I don't think it matters though. A claimed cop is certainly not a D1 lynch. He claimed to provide momentum too and took a huge risk by revealing his role so early. Town motivation here amigo

[chkflip]

I'm not answering Andy's questions because those things have already been covered in my posts.

#NotAnAnsweringMachine

[Kise]

unvote
Vote: Andy

I was thinking kondi was the proper move but I see others prepping suspicion on him. That seems like a DG alternative just being somewhat thrown out there, but not rushed. I'd vote Sly next since Andy isn't bringing up the obvious thing here - Sly pushing a vote on the claimed cop. But, like others have said, not sure if scum would keep pushing to eliminate a cop like this. I've had a lot of experience with scum gambits but I can't figure out an angle Slyscum would be using here, so I don't think he's a baddie.

But onto you, Andy. It's been a week and a half and you've done the cliche cautious play. You're making no impressions and haven't cemented any reads outside of weak modifiers such as 'leaning town' and 'slightly suspicious'. What you DO do (doodoo?) is cool the jets for Sly by making it seem like his push isn't so wrong, hence why I say I'd look into him if you flip scum as there seems to be some kind of damage control going on with the way you're taking DG's claim.

[Kise]

Pine picked up those prods?

[mcqueen]

I've got to go to the dentist, but when I get back, I really need to do some meta-checking.

[BBmolla]

V/LA till Saturday

[mcqueen]

Too lazy to get to that meta-checking tonight. I'll do it tomorrow, and seeing as the game is dead right now, I've no need to rush.

[chkflip]

I know, right? The ffffffffuuuuu...

[mcqueen]

lol.

[SlySly]

This logic is bad. You're seriously recommending a lynch on Damon not because you scumread him, but because he's playing badly if he's town? Come on.

In a game not so long ago, I was a cop. A 3rd party revealed his alignment and I said we should lynch him because a 3rd party lynch would be a sure fire thing and would prevent a mislynch. He convinced everyone I was an idiot and got me ran up to L-1 where I had to claim. Obviously, that stole the cop role from the town. I later got RB'd twice and the town went on to end that game in a loss.

The situation here has some similarities and I have taken a similar defensive stance in both instances. Preserve town PR's, lynch the duck.

My conclusion from DG's claim, was that DG is either:
1. Scum trying to pull some BS
or
2. A cop needlessly outting himself on D1 under no pressure

My thinking about his lynch:
If it's #1, awesome.
If it's #2, his lynch is deserved for personally stealing his role from the town and also erases the possibility of future WIFOM surrounding his role. Lynching him also prevents the possibility of running up other townies and potentially and needlessly outting even more town power roles.

------

On the other hand, if we keep DG around, we force scum to kill or RB him. If they do neither, he can provide some results. Since I'm the one that's been recently pushing his lynch the hardest, he could investigate me and that would shut the magpies up about me.

I'm open to suggestions, but at this point and considering the nearing deadline, DG seems to me to be the most viable lynch candidate.

[kondi2424]

That nasty GF tell.

[SlySly]

That nasty GF tell.

It would take an awfully stupid GF to invite investigation.

[kondi2424]

VOTE: Sly

[Nachomamma8]

VOTE: Sly

No.

[kondi2424]

Why?

[Bunnylover]

This logic is bad. You're seriously recommending a lynch on Damon not because you scumread him, but because he's playing badly if he's town? Come on.

In a game not so long ago, I was a cop. A 3rd party revealed his alignment and I said we should lynch him because a 3rd party lynch would be a sure fire thing and would prevent a mislynch. He convinced everyone I was an idiot and got me ran up to L-1 where I had to claim. Obviously, that stole the cop role from the town. I later got RB'd twice and the town went on to end that game in a loss.

The situation here has some similarities and I have taken a similar defensive stance in both instances. Preserve town PR's, lynch the duck.

My conclusion from DG's claim, was that DG is either:
1. Scum trying to pull some BS
or
2. A cop needlessly outting himself on D1 under no pressure

My thinking about his lynch:
If it's #1, awesome.
If it's #2, his lynch is deserved for personally stealing his role from the town and also erases the possibility of future WIFOM surrounding his role. Lynching him also prevents the possibility of running up other townies and potentially and needlessly outting even more town power roles.

------

On the other hand, if we keep DG around, we force scum to kill or RB him. If they do neither, he can provide some results. Since I'm the one that's been recently pushing his lynch the hardest, he could investigate me and that would shut the magpies up about me.

I'm open to suggestions, but at this point and considering the nearing deadline, DG seems to me to be the most viable lynch candidate.

But your saying that we should lynch the cop, or claimed cop, because he outted himself as a cop.
Would it not be more beneficial to let scum attempt to kill him (hello, doctor role?) or make scum continually roleblock him allowing other roles to go freely?

[mastin2]

Yeah, Sly is *so* scum.