Mini #1317- Game Over!

[deadjoker]

@thez alriight I'll quote it since you seem to have forgotten. Plus I don't want anyone thinking you can squirm out of this one:

I'll tell you this: I have asked the question that we are discussing in

every mafiascum game

I've played ( except my first)

Yes, you have specified. Out of your game record in your signature, only one have you not done your rolefishing. The math is pretty simple.

Oh, and his "obv rolefishing" comment was in response to your inquiry as to why he voted you, as if that wasn't obvious enough. You prodded him to why he voted you, and he responded. It wasn't fifteen pages later, it was a few posts later. Are you done lying?

I would tell you to stop lying, but it's all you got left. Keep doing it. Its fun for me. 115 and its context speaks for itself, I don't have to spin it. You do.

[ICEninja]

Joker's attacks on thez aren't good, and they're getting worse, but I'm trying to decide how genuine they are. It feels like joker really believes all this stuff he's saying. That's why I think there's only 1 scum between these two.

Argh this game is painful.

If neither joker nor thez are scum, then I guarantee that at LEAST two of the scum are hiding in the shadows right now, and I'm thinking hoko. Actually, hoko might be scum regardless of thez and joker considering how he popped in for some nice limelight then disappeared once things heated up.

[thezmon221]

@thez alriight I'll quote it since you seem to have forgotten. Plus I don't want anyone thinking you can squirm out of this one:

I'll tell you this: I have asked the question that we are discussing in

every mafiascum game

I've played ( except my first)

Yes, you have specified. Out of your game record in your signature, only one have you not done your rolefishing. The math is pretty simple.

Dude.. can you read? In fact, I'm feeling really sorry that you can't read something you bolded. Here, I'll point out the word that you should notice:

mafiascum

. Is that clear enough for you? No? Well I don't know what else I can say. I never specified how many mafiascum games I've played in. My game record shows no indication of how many mafiascum games I've played, only how many games I've played.

Oh, and his "obv rolefishing" comment was in response to your inquiry as to why he voted you, as if that wasn't obvious enough. You prodded him to why he voted you, and he responded. It wasn't fifteen pages later, it was a few posts later. Are you done lying?

Umm... no... It wasn't. I'll even quote the series of posts for you:

Would you be willing to do a 1:1 with a mafia at this point in time or potentially Day 2?

Vote: DCLXVI

just to be different.

This is a rolefishing question.

Vote thezmon221

. Serious vote, actually.

Unvote: DCLXVI
Vote: thezmon221

Unvote: DCLXVI
Vote: thezmon221

Forgot to include this in my original post, but is there any reasoning behind this or am I to assume it is a RVS vote? If there's reasoning, I'd like to hear it as you supported little-to-none and seem to have followed ICEninja who did provide some reasoning at least.

Obv rolefishing?

To be honest, the problem that I really had with it is that he took 22 posts to respond. He RVS'd after I asked the question and didn't vote for me until after ICE pointed it out. That is my justification for him. He didn't give any justification whatsoever until 10 posts later where he was indicated to.

I would tell you to stop lying, but it's all you got left. Keep doing it. Its fun for me. 115 and its context speaks for itself, I don't have to spin it. You do.

I haven't lied a single time this game. I'm not even going to debate 115 because you are just too god damn stubborn to go back and reread it and realize you were wrong. You haven't taken my open thoughts into consideration when twisting what I've said.

You see... I actually READ the thread unlike you. You just like to take my posts out of context yourself and claim fallacies and I'm getting really tired of it because of the fact that everything you said has simply been wrong. I know you're scum. If I die tonight, it would be a crime if the town didn't kill you the next day.

If neither joker nor thez are scum, then I guarantee that at LEAST two of the scum are hiding in the shadows right now, and I'm thinking hoko. Actually, hoko might be scum regardless of thez and joker considering how he popped in for some nice limelight then disappeared once things heated up.

Hoko's another rather scummy read of mine. He doesn't contribute much at all. He looked promising earlier, but disappeared.

[kdowns]

Vote Count:
thezmon221- deadjoker , Viktyr Korimir, ICEninja, jon_h61,
ICEninja
deadjoker - hokorippoi, thezmon221,
jon_h61
BP- Antihero,
AntiHero
DCLXVI
Elmo TeH AzN
Haze- Elmo TeH AzN,
Viktyr Korimir
hokorippoi-

Not Voting: Haze, BP, DCLXVI,

With 11 Alive it takes 6 to Lynch.


Deadline is on April 11th at 11AM CDT

Please Correct me if I have made any Mistakes.

[DCLXVI]

I have made up my mind.

Vote: Thezmon

THIS PUTS HIM AT

L-1

according to the votecount.

[hokorippoi]

If neither joker nor thez are scum, then I guarantee that at LEAST two of the scum are hiding in the shadows right now, and I'm thinking hoko. Actually, hoko might be scum regardless of thez and joker considering how he popped in for some nice limelight then disappeared once things heated up.

I said before that my laptop is going in for service.

Finger: thezmon221, ICEninja, deadjoker

Will wait for Thez to post and at lest 12 hours from now before I am willing to hammer.

[jon_h61]

UNVOTE: Thez I'm unwilling to see Thez lynched before Antiheroe gets a chance to comment on what has transpired while he is on v/la. Other than that I've lost interest in what the lurkers think becuase They are prob scum anyway.

Meat World interferes again, be back later.

[jon_h61]

UNVOTE: Thezmon

[thezmon221]

Will wait for Thez to post and at lest 12 hours from now before I am willing to hammer.

I have nothing to respond to. Perhaps you should try making a question or two. If you're looking for a role claim then you're looking in the wrong place, because I'm not going to, I'm sorry. It won't help the town whatsoever.

However, I'll give my reads. The list will go in order from

most willing

to lynch to

least willing

to lynch.

(Mafia)
deadjoker
hokorippoi
Haze

(Null)
Elmo TeH AzN
BP

(Town)
Viktyr Korimir
jon_h61
DCLXVI
Antihero
ICEninja

Not sure what else to say as there is nothing to respond to. All I can say is I have yet to lie and have countered all of joker's posts to the best of my ability. All I can say is that in my opinion, joker has really perversed the situation in his favor and that you all should go back and reevaluate his posts and what he states, and then compare them to what I've said, then make final judgment.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Mod Im taking 3-4 days V/LA. Ive got some issues I need to deal with. Can't deal with this at the moment

[jon_h61]

Haze's play is the scummiest play by far. He throws weak accusations around, tries to cast suspicions on different players while not commiting to anything (Not 1 vote all game). He tries to buddy with players (Thez in P132) while painting a Townie as scum. Remember scum know who is Town.

In P177 he comments on Ice not being confirmed Town while giving a subtle warning to Ice about looking too Town. An attempt to scare Ice into not scumhunting? Also in 177 "I have more on monkey/thez/viktyr laters...>_>", but never adds anything. Another confirmed scum tactic anyone who read mafia discussion should know.

In 317 he says "Not sold on Kondi's post about me & Ice. I actually see no correlation". When are Town "not sold" on someone calling them scum?

In P492 he says "wish to retract my 317is . When I posted it I didn't see Monkey's claim at all and all I saw was him flailing, so I wanted him gone from his scummy posts." He never, ever votes anyone. He suggests we ISO Kondi's reads and look at Ice, but Kondi also points the finger at him. The rest of the post is nothing but fluff trying to look like catching up.

P493 to put it in my translation basically says "My meta says I play better than this as scum" to DCL's FOS.

His last 2 posts, fluff taken out, are an attack on me, and a nudge on BP. I've made my lame excuses for my part in the mis-lynch and that's all the defense I have for that issue. Sorry there's not more, but Haze's ISO is incredibly small.

VOTE: Haze Yes, I think there is scum here

[jon_h61]

Oops missed haze's first post where he voted Monkey.

[ICEninja]

Guys I know I'm not going to look good for this, but I'm going to flip a bitch on my thez read. He's just too genuine. I keep reading his posts and I just find myself nodding along at too much of what he says.

And I think jon is probably right about Haze. We've got players like Elmo (he flakes pretty much every game he plays, in my experience, so its a null tell), Haze and hoko who are both very scummy lurkers, though hoko has a couple more days since he's having computer issues, and the thez/joker back and forward. I feel like we should lynch one of Haze and joker today. I pushed pretty hard for a joker lynch that went nowhere, so let's see if we can do this:

Unvote, vote Haze

.

[Haze]

Before I deal with my surprise superfast counterwagon:

It is not adding anything, but I agree that thez looks like a good target for next lynch.

You say further down that you have no access to your laptop. Have you done extensive reading? If not, for what reason are you willing to hammer?

On my part of the Monkey lynch, yes I can make plenty of excuses, but I personally think it (my part) was bad play all around. I will say I still expected to find scum on the flip.

Thing is admitting a mistake doesn't reduce the scummyness of your behavoir at end of D1.
While this isn't a read per se I'd like to point out that you have this habit of posting lots and lots of things irrelevant to the game. I doesn't seem to significantly add to the volume of your posts so I'll leave it alone.

Just because I pushed the hardest doesn't mean I'm more responsible. Every single one of you voted for him in your own free will. It was your choice to lynch him off.

Sorry this just reads like thez completely diluting the blame. Really scummy.

If you wouldn't mind, could you [deadjoker] give a list of reads. As I have said earlier, there are a few people I would be fine lynching day 2. I haven't made up my mind yet and some more info would be useful.

+1

Deadjoker's scumread seems to be you, Ice, and DCL. If not scumreads at least suspicions. Why the plus one?

You took your vote off because you assumed the lynch would be evaporated, correct? While this would suggest there is not "concerted scum effort" doesn't this suggest you were partially convinced that he might be BG? So why did you jump off the wagon as soon as you thought it had become unpopular? Why didn't you stick to your vote since you're so convinced it doesn't really matter if the BG claim is true or not? Is DJ just another convenient ML?

No, it was because I was fine with lynching either of you. I was partially convinced that he might be a BG, but I still thought he was acting very scummy.

Ok. So essentially you're happy to kill Deadjoker and Monkey equally as much. Which is why you jumped and jumped back. Very well, I have no case.
At the time, who did you think was scummier? Also as a town player do you tend to be the one to lead formations of counterwagons or are you a more stubborn player who tries to maintain one strong wagon? Or are you not any of those? If so, what kind of town player are you?

If you look at the timestamps it looks even worse: there was 16 minutes between the 2 posts. Jon just looked like somebody who really didn't care if he hammered town or scum anymore and wanted to do fishing. That's DARN scummy. What's worse he can just pretend to be apathetic town when questioned.

The posts you quoted are 7 posts apart. AND, he thought that Monkey was scummy too. To be honest, I probably would've been apathetic in that situation as well since the discussion was getting long and little was being accomplished. BUT, jon did think he was scummy and DID give him time to react, which Monkey did.

What use are responses that Jon didn't even bother reading?

On my part of the Monkey lynch, yes I can make plenty of excuses, but I personally think it (my part) was bad play all around. I will say I still expected to find scum on the flip.

Well, knowing he's town now, I can tell he was more an overwhelmed townie with a doctor-esque role who was simply one who could break down easier. Do I regret the lynch? Not entirely. Can't change the death now. Best we can do is find the clues (which we are doing) and move on from there. Either way, it WAS better than a NL.

You mention that Monkey lynch is better than the NL in 366 also right after Monkey calls you out for deflecting responsibility.

You ignored monkeys please to try and take a look at those who were hardcore tunnelling him and seem to disregard the possibility of another lynch (and remember you've said that you would like to lynch the both of them just as much.) You had a full 15 days till deadline. What made you think a NL was likely?

At this point, I'm fairly convinced that we have exactly 1 scum between thez and joker. I'm willing to buy that thez is the scum, but if he isn't I doubt much will convince me to move my vote from joker until he's dead.

I've stolen this quote from witihn Thez's quote wall, which is why it seems out of place. But yeah. If you think scum is in Thez and Joker, why are you voting me again?

@thez alriight I'll quote it since you seem to have forgotten. Plus I don't want anyone thinking you can squirm out of this one:

I'll tell you this: I have asked the question that we are discussing in

every mafiascum game

I've played ( except my first)

Yes, you have specified. Out of your game record in your signature, only one have you not done your rolefishing. The math is pretty simple.

Dude.. can you read? In fact, I'm feeling really sorry that you can't read something you bolded. Here, I'll point out the word that you should notice:

mafiascum

. Is that clear enough for you? No? Well I don't know what else I can say. I never specified how many mafiascum games I've played in. My game record shows no indication of how many mafiascum games I've played, only how many games I've played.

Hahaha that's just about the dodgiest thing I've ever seen anybody say. But the thing is, is your meta off mafiascum indicative of anything? Why wouldn't it be?

If neither joker nor thez are scum, then I guarantee that at LEAST two of the scum are hiding in the shadows right now, and I'm thinking hoko. Actually, hoko might be scum regardless of thez and joker considering how he popped in for some nice limelight then disappeared once things heated up.

Hoko's another rather scummy read of mine. He doesn't contribute much at all. He looked promising earlier, but disappeared.

I'm third on your list for lynching.
And where does your reasoning for mescum come in?

[Haze]

UNVOTE: Thez I'm unwilling to see Thez lynched before Antiheroe gets a chance to comment on what has transpired while he is on v/la. Other than that I've lost interest in what the lurkers think becuase They are prob scum anyway.

Meat World interferes again, be back later.

All lurkers are probscum?
Also I'd like to note that right now Jon is purely unvoting Thez so that Antihero gets a chance to comment. Why didn't you do this for Monkey? Why didn't you wait for Ice to comment before hammering monkey?
Also note that there is no indication of giving up on this wagon whatsover. It's just and unvote to prevent quickhammer.

But wait:

Haze's play is the scummiest play by far. He throws weak accusations around, tries to cast suspicions on different players while not commiting to anything (Not 1 vote all game). He tries to buddy with players (Thez in P132) while painting a Townie as scum. Remember scum know who is Town.

All of a sudden he finds himself a new target. Oh sure he laid down the generalisation that lurkers are scum anyways. But it seems like a rather quick change in direction, it's not as if the Thez lynch is going nowhere.

Also I don't find my accusations weak or thrown around.

I think Jon and Thez are scum right now.

Not 1 vote all game isn't a tell. Go meta. I do it as either role. It's a habit. I'm a reserved player.

As for 132 I had to Iso myself to see this. Allow me to quote it.

Eh.

Monkey's "Putting me as scum with OMGUS huh" came off forced and scummy to me.

I couldn't remotely see any sign of OMGUS.

THez's reasoning has been the most out of anyones.

Monkey's 120 is even worse (Hokorippoi's post is more derp than scum) with blatant sheeping of Ice and then the

As far as elaborate posts, I have a concise posting style. Get used to it, I am not going to write very many 500 word posts.

is just a "I won't give much reasons deal with it".

The bolded part must be the offending clause.

But Wait.

I'm just contrasting Thez's vote on Monkey with Monkey's vote on Thez.
One's OMGUS and one isn't. Also a note here but I am not trying to claim all of a sudden after Monkeys flip I thought he was town. I thought he was scum up to #178, after which I didn't read his claim etc thus causing a rather bad post in #317 where I just ignore Monkeys' claim. After that I didn't read the thread and the lynch occurred.

In P177 he comments on Ice not being confirmed Town while giving a subtle warning to Ice about looking too Town. An attempt to scare Ice into not scumhunting? Also in 177 "I have more on monkey/thez/viktyr laters...>_>", but never adds anything. Another confirmed scum tactic anyone who read mafia discussion should know.

177 I'm pointing out that I don't trust Ice. I didn't like the way he was clear of Thez v Monkey. I didn't like the way he starts wagons just like

that

. I still don't.

As for the second half where is Viktyr anyways? Did he replace? Furthermore, I said I woudl reread and post. it got late, and afterwards it was 317 where I ceased to read and you guys hammered. I think you're

exaggerating

a bit with the confirmed scum tactic. I also had a bajillion pages in Good v Evil. If it was so confirmed scum would avoid it like the bane of their roles.

In 317 he says "Not sold on Kondi's post about me & Ice. I actually see no correlation". When are Town "not sold" on someone calling them scum?

Not persuaded? Kondi's post about me + Ice sounds like fabrication? Also it was a correlation tell, rather than a scum call. No shit I'm won't listen to somebody trying to nail me as scum. I was pointing out that the correlation crap he was spouting is bollocks.

In P492 he says "wish to retract my 317is . When I posted it I didn't see Monkey's claim at all and all I saw was him flailing, so I wanted him gone from his scummy posts." He never, ever votes anyone. He suggests we ISO Kondi's reads and look at Ice, but Kondi also points the finger at him. The rest of the post is nothing but fluff trying to look like catching up.

Me not voting anyone has no relation to my retraction of my post #317. It was made erroneously without information: that is, Monkey's claim.
Kondi points the finger at me

or

Ice.

The rest of the post is not fluff, and I

have

caught up, thank you very much.

P493 to put it in my translation basically says "My meta says I play better than this as scum" to DCL's FOS.

yeah cause DCL's (666's) post was about me posting crap stuff. Thus in context, the full meaning would in layman's terms be

"666: haze that post was shit.
haze: yeah my posts are shit as town."

Also would you like to pinpoint 666's FOS? Thanks.

His last 2 posts, fluff taken out, are an attack on me, and a nudge on BP. I've made my lame excuses for my part in the mis-lynch and that's all the defense I have for that issue. Sorry there's not more, but Haze's ISO is incredibly small.

Last 2 posts have little fluff. Maybe you should bold my bullshit so I can see it better. It's all factual there, Jon.
And it's a strong attack. And yeah nudge. BP was being awefully suspicious going "I'll lynch haze if he won't come back." I still haven't read him yet because he's yet to make a recent post.

And yeah of course my ISO is small. I've been here for the smaller portion of Day 1 and then I missed the first portion of day 2. Now I'm back.

Guys I know I'm not going to look good for this, but I'm going to flip a bitch on my thez read. He's just too genuine. I keep reading his posts and I just find myself nodding along at too much of what he says.

I'd like to point out that thez could just be a really good player. Also how do we know you're not scum? If you were no shit you'd be nodding to everythign he's saying.

And I think jon is probably right about Haze. We've got players like Elmo (he flakes pretty much every game he plays, in my experience, so its a null tell), Haze and hoko who are both very scummy lurkers, though hoko has a couple more days since he's having computer issues, and the thez/joker back and forward. I feel like we should lynch one of Haze and joker today. I pushed pretty hard for a joker lynch that went nowhere, so let's see if we can do this:

Unvote, vote Haze

.

Anyway. Maybe I should bold this. And caps lock it. It's as if Ice thinks I'm the only viable lynch because I'm lurking. Maybe my circumstances weren't clear to everybody. So here it is, bold + Capslocked:

LOOK. I THINK YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND:
1. I WAS HERE FOR THE PART OF DAY 1 UP TO POST 178. I WAS BUSY FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE DAY AND I POSTED 317 WITHOUT READING ANYTHING.
2. I WAS STILL BUSY UNTIL THE FLIP, AND THEN AFTER THE FLIP I HAD CAMP. BAD TIMING? YEAH
3. I'M BACK AND I'M STILL BEING CALLED OUT FOR LURKING? SERIOUSLY GUYS? I'M NOT LURKING.
4. I CAN'T SEQUENCE POST LIKE YOU GUYS AND HAVE A PROPER CONVO, BECAUSE I'M ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD. WHEN I POST THEY'RE ALL TRIPLE POSTS TO MYSELF BECAUSE NOBODY IS IN MY TIMEZONE AND NOBODY CAN REPLY. I'M NOT LURKING.

Phew. Posting like Fate is a pain in the ass.

[jon_h61]

@ Haze You say I all of a sudden find myself a new target. It was almost 6 hours later, after I ISO'd several people. By the way, there are more than 1 scum in this game and since I was just waiting I attempted to put it to good use.

I went ahead and meta'd you and you do in fact vote only on very rare occasions. Another standout From your quick meta, you really like calling for people's deaths. I'd really be interested in why you frequently call for people's deaths but never vote them.

[BP]

@Mod and All I'm on Easter vacations rigth now. Activity will be very low as I don't have internet connection at home.

[Viktyr Korimir]

As for the second half where is Viktyr anyways? Did he replace?

I'm right here. I haven't even been prodded yet.

I think lynching thezmon221 is the right thing to do at this time, and nothing has been said that has changed that opinion. On the other hand, my opinions of whom we should lynch tomorrow have changed considerably within the last couple of posts and I want to see a little more of how things play out before I start talking about it.

[deadjoker]

This haze bandwagon seems like a diversion. Im going to read his ISO, but from my memory the only thing suspicious about him is he is one of the quieter players which plausibly could be scum laying low, but I'm nowhere close to being convinced.

It also doesn't help that we have so many lurkers and v/la. Thankfully we still have over a week to get everyone back and posting.

Thez is still my main target for reasons already posted. His heavy manipulation and tunneling of monkey day one has me pegging him as obv scum, and his defense did little to convince me otherwise.

Also ice, don't think I didn't notice your telegraphing your unvote after you jumped on the thez bandwagon. Looks like you are trying to distance yourself from thez. My "theory" about you and thez is stronger than ever.

[DCLXVI]

ARGH!!!

I'm having a hard time deciding who I want lynched right now. I have a list of people I suspect, but I keep flip flopping in my mind which of them is scummier.

I as said early in post 512 the 5 people I would be fine seeing lynched today are:
Deadjoker
Thezmon
Haze
Hoko
Elmo

For now my vote is staying on thezmon. BUT, if any of those people were to get to L-1 I would be perfectly fine hammering them. A flip from anyone one of these people will give us a

TON

of valuable information to go off of.

[Viktyr Korimir]

This haze bandwagon seems like a diversion. Im going to read his ISO, but from my memory the only thing suspicious about him is he is one of the quieter players which plausibly could be scum laying low, but I'm nowhere close to being convinced.

I agree with you here. Haze is suspicious more for lurking than for anything else, and the only thing I can say for sure he's guilty of is being of little help to Town. I can see lynching him, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to lynch him with you and thezmon221 sitting right here.

[jon_h61]

From what I've been reading lately in Mafia Discussion, Wiki, etc... The odds are stacked in favor of scum. I not even sure if the Thez-joker isn't even Town on Town anymore. On the Haze deal, I had just finished reading an article on lurking as scum before doing ISOs. Haze's play came off as being taken staight out of said article. I encourage anyone to read it and give their thoughts on whether I'm crazy or not on the issue. Look in Mafia Discussion, you can't miss it.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

The haze wagon even has me worried. Really what reasons are there for it? He's been busy. And Ice seriously fuck off.
Calling me a flaker and what not. I left one game you were in and lurked after my partner left in another. I have issues in my life right now sorry mafia takes a backseat to my life.

So I get it right zmon is at L-2 DLC is confused.
Haze and joker are town IMO
Zmon is null-scum at best

[ICEninja]

I'm really just no confident at all right now. I'm not sure why. Logic dictates that we should lynch thez today, but something about it just doesn't feel right. I'm still good to lynch joker, obviously happy to see Haze hang, and if enough people want a thez lynch then I suppose I can tolerate that but it definitely isn't my preference.

This game has just been too convoluted for me though, I can't get straight reads on anyone with the amount of lurking, V/LAs, how day 1 ended, and how many weak wagons there are. Right now if someone were to try and convince me to vote for their preferred lynch, they would meet with the best success if they used a clear bullet point case that contained links to key posts.

[jon_h61]

@ joker WOW, I just finished reading your Newbie game, in the Completed Newbie Games section, where you were scum. I have to say I learnt more about scum players from that one game than from what a half dozen articles could teach. I'll read the QT tomorrow. By the way congrats on the win on that game!