Mini 1316 - Last Will Mafia IV (Over)

[Fishythefish]

okay I took a look at the cases agains alice and don't find them very compelling, definitely nothing lynchworthy imo.

The only thing that struck me as odd was the "loldefense" followed up by "ls points are vaild". Alice, which specific points were valid?

@Fishy, how does funkybike's vote affect your read of alice?

Not all that much. It's not particularly unlikely that scumfunky would be bussing here - his partner would be in trouble, and I can easily see scum not bothering to make much of a case because they know they're right. And if funky is town, his vote says nothing about Alice's alignment.

[Alicewondering]

@Alice: Weren't you telling me I was wrong when I posted my case though? So now the points are valid?

Your points are certainly valid, but you've reached the wrong conclusion.

Also, I find it really hard to buy that you're actually scumhunting since you don't have a vote on anyone. What you're doing now looks like questioning with no real purpose, which we really don't have time for this close to the deadline.

False. I'm voting for DDD.

Alicewondering

, do you really think that DDD is scum or just interested in his reads? And why do you question funkybike1, but ignore theomoaner?

I really want to understand your logic.

At this point, I'm definitely not sure about any of my reads to be honest. However, I don't think there's any town motivation behind DDD's posting. His posting shows that he hasn't really given any thought to who is scum--there's no questioning of people, no examining of posts, just some stuff about Nacho that doesn't really show that he's considered Nacho's more recent posting. He's dodging questions about reads. I do not think this is town behavior. I think there's a good chance DDD is scum who's trying avoid attracting attention and getting by with his weak push on Nacho. This is why I've asked him for his reads multiple times.

Usually, I only question people who catch my attention in some way. Actually, I've kind of glazed over theomoaner's posts. Some of the catch up feels genuine, but the defense of Malee seems a bit overzealous. I specifically want to question funky more, though, because I have suspicions of funky, but nothing solid since his activity is so low.

Alice, which specific points were valid?

Sure, I've changed my reads/votes and I haven't pressured people that I've said were "primary scumreads." I understand that from an outsider's point of view, it looks like lack of effort in scumhunting. But I'm certainly not scum. As a player, I find it much easier to build up good townreads than to separate scumreads from nullreads. But because of the game mechanic, I'm obviously not going to list my townreads all the time.

[Alicewondering]

Not all that much. It's not particularly unlikely that scumfunky would be bussing here - his partner would be in trouble, and I can easily see scum not bothering to make much of a case because they know they're right. And if funky is town, his vote says nothing about Alice's alignment.

If funky is scum, his vote means nothing as well to my alignment. I'm an easy lynch target now that a wagon has grown on me.

[Lastsurvivor]

...Fuck it, an Alice lynch is no good.

UNVOTE: (For realz this time)
VOTE: Funkybike1

I have already stated my reasoning here, but i will extract it for the lazy:

(Note, the bolded point was not in the original post)

Funky: Sweet jesus Funky is one of the most confusing players ever. I think he's scum though.

Spoiler: quote #1 (big quote)

The wonders of Comcast being useless over a weekend... Here's a few of my reads.

To me, it looks like this wagon on

Malee

is sort of forced; there is no relevant reason for her to be scum more than anyone else. LS's argument is based on pandering, which I find not to be a valid scumtell Day 1. However, I respect other people's opinions, and if this behavior continues from Malee, it will be very hard to dig out of the hole she created for herself.

Vincent

, seems to be acting overly townish. I think he's vanilla town (at least for right now).

LS

is leaning town, definitely. I simply don't believe scum would post like that.

4nxi3ty

,... active lurking. No information as of yet.

Hiplop

has contributed to the town's discussion, but I can't get a read of his posts.

Kortul

, I can say, is safely town until proven otherwise.

Rhinox

has changed his behavior from previous games quite a bit, he's played here like a decent townie.

Nachomamma

is scum. I can't see any other possibility.


Nacho, how about you answer your own question?
Post 110: "When you're defending yourself, what other objectives should you have?"

Lots of things wrong with this:

1) See Malee's read. He says he thinks the Malee case is forced. Then he goes on to say that if her behavior continues, it will be very difficult to dig herself out of whatever hole she's in or something like that. Shouldn't he find her behavior fine if he finds the case forced?
2) 4n's, hip's reads literally don't say anything.
3) Kortul is safely town until proven otherwise? How so? He gives no explanation for this (hell, none of them have explanations)
4) No vote on Nacho. This leads me to my next point.

Post 173: Funky says Nacho provided an explanation for his behavior. If you go through Nacho's ISO...he really didn't explain his behavior.

Spoiler: quote 2

I did not vote Nacho because I was waiting for him to respond to my question.

ORLY? He's referring to his random ass question at the end of quote 1. I find this very hard to believe. Why not just vote and then ask the question? Avoiding conflict IMO.

Also, it's an irrelevant question. Is that question really important enough to hold off a vote for? I don't think so.

But yeah anyway we've clarified that Funky thinks Nacho's innocent. Except, according to Read 218, Funky agrees with Hip that Nacho's scum now.

TL;DR Funky's scum.

Add in the Alice vote for no original reason whatsoever, and I think we've found lurker scum.

[Lastsurvivor]

@4n: You have said that funky is probably town. Why?
@kortul, hiplop: You two should totally vote funk.
@alice: As much as I agree with your points on DDD (hence why I was doubting my read and switched my vote), you're not going to get enough momentum for a lynch before deadline. So you should totally vote funky too.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

Alicewondering (4) - theomoaner, kortul, funkybik1, hiplop
funkybike1 (3) - Sleepless Assassin, fishythefish, Lastsurvivor
rhinox (1) - 4nxi3ty
nachomamma8 (1) - Debonair Danny DiPietro
Vincent2128 (1) - rhinox
Lastsurvivor (1) - nachomamma8
Debonair Danny DiPietro (1) - Alicewondering

Not Voting (1) - Vincent2128

With 13 votes in play it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is April 4th, 7PM PST

Vincent2128 is being replaced (possibly temporarily)
nachomamma8 has been prodded

[Alicewondering]

@alice: As much as I agree with your points on DDD (hence why I was doubting my read and switched my vote), you're not going to get enough momentum for a lynch before deadline. So you should totally vote funky too.

That'll probably end up happening. The funky wagon will have my support if it needs it.

Also, I'm about to revise my will. I highly suggest everyone else does the same.

[LlamaFluff]

Voidedmafia replaces Vincent2128

[Voidedmafia]

Yo. Just here until Vincent's back, so just put up with me 'till then. I have been watching this game up till now, so I've got a fairly good picture in my head of who I think is town/null/scum at least superficially, though I'll have to reread if you want me to completely explain them.

First thing's first, though, I would not be averse to a funky lynch. I know he's mentioned being sick, but unless it's something that renders you bedridden or some shit like that you can still do more than prod-dodge. HOWEVER, I also think that his lynch currently isn't very informative exactly because of his lack of content, which is why I'll only pursue his lynch at this point to avoid no-lynching.

If there's anything specific you want me to address, feel free to ask me.

[Alicewondering]

Welcome Voidedmafia! That is a good point on the funky lynch. Who would you rather lynch then? Who are your scumreads right now?

[Voidedmafia]

Well, I wasn't really enamored by Malee's play, nor theomancer's, so that would be my other target as of this point.

Speaking of...*goes to ISO for a second*

[Voidedmafia]

Well, my general indifference to the amished tell aside, his opinion on Malle just comes off as being too placating, or something like that. Not that hints of that can't be apparant when you replace (after all, you have to do SOMETHING to try and bring back a ruined reputation if that's what you'v replaced into), but as I said with Funky: Unless you're so bad that you're bedridden or otherwise cannot focus on on your games at all (which Malee obviously wasn't), being sick shouldn't prevent you from being helpful. Granted, I am being a bit more lenient on her than on funky as I do recall that Malee has had issues with this in the past, but I cannot accept it as the only reason.

Someone else already commented on the shrinking of his original suspect list, though I don't necessarily see it as anything overtly scummy.

Lastly, in his last post he largely complains more about his defending priorities than anything else. Of course, the interesting part of the post is why he's voting alice. Nevermind that asking the same question as someone else isn't that bad given the context, but how is something you find "a little strange" and that enough to completely reverse your original townread on the slot to vote her? Put her to null, I could accept that, but to a scumread?

vote: theo

[Lastsurvivor]

Good catch on Theo's flip flopping Alice read. Theo, care to explain the flop?

I feel really good about Funky though. The scumminess that he's been caught in is probably the most concrete so far. I really can't see a townie having the interactions he had with Nacho.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Ok back guys.

So looks like all I missed is a bunch of people wagoning alice, including bike, but some people still prefer an alice lynch to a bike one.

Vinces replacement, why did you feel the need to state your wishy washy unhapiness with a bike lynch, but no opinion on alice who actually has more votes?

And just in case it's not as obvious as I feel it is, I still see alicetown and bikescum.

*also, everyone make sure you are happy with your will before the night. Deadline is only a few days away.*

[Voidedmafia]

Because Alice is null leaning town now, and I'm focusing on the people currently being in line to be lynched in my eyes. And obviously Alice isn't one of those people while Funky and theo are.

Also, I believe I was clear that while funky is scummy and certainly is a good lynch (aka "I'm not averse to his lynch"), the lack of information that we'd get from his lynch (besides MAYBE something regarding Nacho, according to last) does not fill me with a drive to go "DIE BIKE DIE" and such. Also, I never said I was unhappy with a bike lynch, so nice misrep.

[Rhinox]

Well after a little time to iso vincent and voided's post after replacing in, I don't have the gut scummy feeling towards vincent I thought I had. I thought I remembered him having a wishy-washy view of me, and then later doing a bit of stirring the pot regarding me/hiplop, but that doesn't seem to be the case after reading the iso.

Alice just feels town to me. I read her posts, they don't seem like things scum would say, not in tone nor content. The worst she did was vote hiplop and then backpedal out of it, but I don't think thats enough to call her scum.

as for funky, I see occassional hints of evidence that he is thinking like a townie, and nothing I can point to that says he's thinking like scum.

just

unvote

for now.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD: my insticnt is that that tell doesn't work. As scum or as town, I stress massively about my replacee. I replace in a lot, and I'm really worried about the situation of replacing in to a town slot where the previous occupant is really scummy. I never even slightly think "he was town, so all his actions must be reasonable" - town do unreasonable and scummy things. Possibly I'm not the typical replacement, but I'm struggling with the notion that replacements find their slots beyond criticism.

Sadly I don’t care about whether you think it’s accurate or not, because I trust it’s general accuracy; I was hoping for insight in regards to its application. Unfortunately, you haven’t seen it before and what a surprise Nacho has gone missing again. Too bad nobody other than me cares, so...

VOTE: theomoaner

Looks like the Amished-tell, quacks like the Amished-tell, probably is the Amished-tell.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Void, you seemed very interested in looking elsewhere for someone who thinks bike is scummy.

[4nxi3ty]

@4n: You have said that funky is probably town. Why?

I get a lazytown vibe from him, not a panickedlurkerscum vibe. And his thought process with nacho seemed reasonable.

Unvote, Vote: Lastsurvivor
You have been pushing people to provide content but you haven't been producing it much yourself. Instead, you've been riding a Malee vote, but that has been riding for oh so long now and it's time to shit or get off the pot. Recent posts have not been helping.

I've been mulling over this for some time:Immediately after this post LS decided to ISO some people and than later came up with a case on funky and alice, looks like he was worried he wasn't providing enough content.

On one hand LS has been pressuring a lot of people to explain themselves but on the other he has been overstating the scumminess of others. It has gotten to the point where I feel he is just been trying to get a mislynch going on multiple people while masking his actions as pro-town by asking a lot of questions.

I am comfortable with a Rhinox, LS, or Theo lynch more so rhinox and ls.

malee was leaning scum, theo without the amishedtell is leaning town so it would be closer to an info. lynch in my book.

[Voidedmafia]

Void, you seemed very interested in looking elsewhere for someone who thinks bike is scummy.

Oh noes, he's onto me!

In seriousness, though, what makes you think that? If I wanted to put things another way, I want theo lynched, with Funky as a backup in case we get to that point.

DDD: I know the tell, and quite frankly I think the accuracy from at I've seen is too shitty for it to be used (IIRC I've even had it used against me as town, though don't quote me on that).

[Nachomamma8]

Rhinox is reaching way too hard to justify his stance on hiplop.

Happy to oblige, but first: My predecessor has certainly left me in a big pile of poop, but I have to say that had I been reading this as a neutral I would have found it all to be very a very forced case (although I didn't read it a a neutral so I could well be biased).

Fishy, Nacho; Amished-tell?

No.
Amished tell is when they read their predecessor's ISO in order to figure out their general standing. Reading the game and complaining that you're in a forced position isn't the same, it's what Amrun did here.

If your vote is only based off of a joke I've been making based off of Rhinox's post 254 (read the last sentence and his use of the word "placate," and then look at my avatar and scroll down to #258 where I first used the joke if you don't get it), and a slight disappointment that I haven't changed my vote in awhile, then hopefully you won't mind if I disregard your vote for now.

The hungry wolf comment was quoted as an example of one of the times you demanded more content. That would've been clear to you had you read my posting. As for "slight disappointment", it's more than that. I never suggested it wasn't. And, didn't even acknowledge your "out of place complimenting" bit. Can we try again and answer people's suspicions against us seriously?

I've concluded that this hiplop/rhinox argument is town/town and pointless. Honestly, both of them are using arguments that are so illogical that this has to be two people with bad tunnel vision on each other.

You're looking at the arguments as opposed to the people themselves. This is scummy.

This is a prod dodge.
Being sick sucks.

It's like being useless, but more excusable!

Theo's move to alice is absolutely horrid. I'm surprised someone hasn't noticed this already.

I'm liking kortul so far, even though he's a bit of a passive player, that's alright.

Alice needs to take defending a lot more seriously than she is now. Probably town still, but completely blowing off cases on you is just poor play.

Voided, I've been wrong with the tell once. I've learned my mistake.

[kortul]

Good catch on Theo's flip flopping Alice read. Theo, care to explain the flop?

Theo's move to alice is absolutely horrid. I'm surprised someone hasn't noticed this already.

I wonder, does anybody actually read my posts?

Alicewondering

-

<...cut some quotes...>

Your scumread (theomoaner) does 180 on you, and instead of questioning him you switch to someone, you are not even sure is scummy?

<...>

theomoaner

, can you explain your thought process behind your 180 on Alice? In one day you went from

"Her posts feel like "the voice of reason". She seems to be analysing what others are posting and to try to help others think through their ideas (for example post 148). I can't see scum doing this."

to a vote on her. I agree with the result, but don't understand the process yet.

I was waiting for comments from Alice and explanations from theo, but Alice ignored this completely, and theo wasn't here to answer yet (missing for 3 days).

I don't see how admitting that points are valid makes Alicewondering less scummy now, but move from funkybike1 brought him closer to her, and theomoaner is there as well (at least until i will hear an explanation from him). Basicly now i see all three almost equally scummy, with Alice still leading, but remaining on the same wagon with funky AND theo feels so wrong, therefore:
UNVOTE:
VOTE: funkybike1

[Lastsurvivor]

I've been mulling over this for some time:Immediately after this post LS decided to ISO some people and than later came up with a case on funky and alice, looks like he was worried he wasn't providing enough content.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlatio ... _causation

Yup, after Nacho voted me I did do some ISOs. But I was going to do those ISOs anyway because I wanted to get some solid reads on people. Sorry if that's scummy.

On one hand LS has been pressuring a lot of people to explain themselves but on the other he has been overstating the scumminess of others.

Once I realized my Alice case was bad I unvoted. If you wanna prove how I'm overstating scumminess on Funky, then I'll buy this point. But please do that first.

On one hand LS has been pressuring a lot of people to explain themselves but on the other he has been overstating the scumminess of others. It has gotten to the point where I feel he is just been trying to get a mislynch going on multiple people while masking his actions as pro-town by asking a lot of questions.

Summary: "My reads disagree with LS so he must be scum pushing for mislynches. He asks a lot of questions. That couldn't possibly be part of his playstyle; he must be scum."

Tell me I'm wrong.

Also, I have no idea how you could think that funky's thought process was logical. He referred to events that didn't happen. I.e, he said Nacho explained himself when he didn't. I don't know how a townie could look through Nacho's posts and see an explanation.

He said he didn't vote because he was waiting for Nacho to answer a question. The question, imo, doesn't seem like enough to hold off a vote for. I think he's lying.

But please tell me where you see the logic. I want to be enlightened.

The hungry wolf comment was quoted as an example of one of the times you demanded more content. That would've been clear to you had you read my posting. As for "slight disappointment", it's more than that. I never suggested it wasn't.

Honest question: Do you really think I haven't been providing content since you've been gone? Your argument's irrelevant ATM.

(Also, don't even think about replying that your prodding made me provide content.)

And, didn't even acknowledge your "out of place complimenting" bit. Can we try again and answer people's suspicions against us seriously?

How am I supposed to reply to "This is not ok!!!" especially when I thought it was perfectly fine. How about you quit it with your lazy argument and vote someone else. You told me to shit or get off the pot. I did. How about you do the same?

You're looking at the arguments as opposed to the people themselves. This is scummy.

Uh huh. That's why at least three other people were saying it was a town/town argument, right? Were they all my scumbuddies?

Furthermore, how is it scummy. Shouldn't I be evaluating their arguments to see if they're town? You're not making any sense.

----

I want to see Theo reply to the flip flop on Alice, since I feel there is an explanation that town could make. If he explains well, my vote stays on Funk.

[Alicewondering]

@Kortul, I actually missed Theo's "180" on me the first time I read through because I was skimming through votes on me. So when I read your post, I got confused and just didn't answer. XP

I get a lazytown vibe from him, not a panickedlurkerscum vibe. And his thought process with nacho seemed reasonable.

Can you expand on this and explain exactly which posts gave you that vibe?

[LlamaFluff]

~bump~