NY 150: Mob Money Mafia GAME OVER

[Nachomamma8]

okay, so that leaves
TS
chk
matt
knox
bb
oversoul

I remember having townreads on TS and Over before, we'll let them stay for now.
BB might be scum, I doubt it.

leaving chk, matt, and knox.
feeling matt or knox out of this group right now, let me check on who they replaced.

[mastin2]

BBmolla - 1 (Twistedspoon)
Nacho - 2 (

Nacho

,

SlySly

)
Bunnylover - 3(Chkflip, Projectmatt,

Andycyca

)
SlySly - 8(Knox,

Mcqueen, Kise, Mastin, Bunnylover, Pine

, Kondi, BBmolla)
Projectmatt - 1 (Oversoul)

Kondi *might* be worthy of the list, but I'm not confident enough to say for certain. As for scum, there should be three or so left. My best bet's Knox for one of 'em. I'm hoping that TS and Oversoul are town, and if so, that'd leave groups of {chkflip, matt} and {Kondi, BBMolla}, probably with one scum in each.

[Nachomamma8]

mmmm, i forgot about kondi. not worth pushing a lynch on in the near future.
knox being the first and only scum on the sly wagon feels really awkward, however.

[Nachomamma8]

mmmm, i forgot about kondi. not worth pushing a lynch on in the near future.
knox being the first and only scum on the sly wagon feels really awkward, however.

[Twistedspoon]

Here we go. Yeah, I think we seriously need to rethink the ol' chkflip townread that I've had since he replaced in for Chimera (who was a weak townread barely above null).

Chkflip takes AlexK's old slot.

[mastin2]

1. Projectmatt <--Replaced Furcolow (who when he was posting, was posting in his scum meta), who replaced grifiest (who was null-to-scumlean in his posts).
2. Twistedspoon <--Replaced C-worl.
3. Knox <--Replaced Pizzadudes7.
7. Oversoul <--Replaced Foxace (had no posts).
9. BBmolla <--Replaced Chimera. (Dang, I keep getting BBMolla and chkflip's slots confused. >_<)
15. Chkflip <--Replaced Elmo (null-but-townlean), who replaced Yourheroeshero (no posts).

Those are the relevant replacements.

[Twistedspoon]

15. Chkflip <--Replaced Elmo (null-but-townlean), who replaced Yourheroeshero (no posts).

Those are the relevant replacements.

kondi replaced elmo

chkflip replaced Alex

[mastin2]

SlySly - 8(Knox, [peoplelistedastown], Kondi, BBmolla)

So if Knox being the first and only scum on the wagon feels awkward, and you don't think Kondi's worth pushing, does that mean you think that BBMolla's scum, Nacho?

[mastin2]

I still like it as Knox, 1 of {chkflip, Matt}, and 1 of {Kondi, BBMolla} (based on wagon placement), though it might be better paired off as 1 of {chkflip, BBMolla} and 1 of {Kondi, Matt} (based off of play). I think, anyway.

Right now, my best guess is Knox-Matt-BBMolla, but I dunno.

[Nachomamma8]

SlySly - 8(Knox, [peoplelistedastown], Kondi, BBmolla)

So if Knox being the first and only scum on the wagon feels awkward, and you don't think Kondi's worth pushing, does that mean you think that BBMolla's scum, Nacho?

no, that's not right.
bbmolla is not scum.
kondi is scum, and i made a mistake.

No time. VOTE: BL

This is his response to your Sly vote.

[mastin2]

Got an idea for a more complete scumteam, though? Kondi'd be one of three.

Which'd still leave two in the below names.
chk
matt
knox <--Who you said would be awkward.
bb <--Who you just said wasn't.

...Does that mean you see a chkflip-matt-kondi scumteam?

[Nachomamma8]

no, knox would only be awkward as scum placement if he was the first AND only scumbag on the sly wagon. kondi being scum as well fixes that.
meaning my scumteam is more knox-matt-kondi.

[mastin2]

Ah, okay. I'm not entirely sold on kondi (I'll need to check), but I'm on knox right now, and would join a matt wagon if it were to form.

[mastin2]

Users browsing this forum: mastin2, projectmatt, T-Bone

[projectmatt]

1. Someone explain to me why Kise is town

2. Knox is a fairly good vote.

3. I have a few fairly solid town reads but I need to check up something quickly. However Mastin/Nacho seriously need to realize that I'm town. <.<

[Nachomamma8]

yeah, okay.
starting with a

Vote: Knox

.

matt, the quickest way to a man's heart is by riding the bandwagon with him to happiness.

[projectmatt]

Give me an hour or two.

[mastin2]

Hope you don't mind me leaving. I need to eat.

[Pine]

@Mastin & Nacho: Of those on your list (we disagree about BL, but I'll let it slide for now) I have the strongest scumread on BB, followed closely (and rising) by Chkflip (for his really scummy actions late yesterday).

Unvote
Vote: BBMolla

[mastin2]

Note, should also check Damon's suspects as well. He mighta been a cop, yes, but if the scum didn't fear him, he wouldn't be dead.

[Pine]

Ehhh...that's faulty logic. I know that when I'm scum, I often pick people I don't think are going to accrue Doctors or Watchers, and I almost always pick targets that are going to make Town go "Huh?" Well, unless I have an agenda. But that's the problem with NK WIFOM.

[kondi2424]

Hey mastin, can you answer the question I asked you in my reads post?

Which question was that?

It was why you hadn't been able to develop a read on Bunnylover yet.

@mastin: No, you are not confirmed by that. Sly was a Traitor, so he might not have known the scumteam.

He rolecopped me, and said what my role was in-thread. Telling the scum exactly what I am. The only way that wouldn't confirm me as town is if I were scum, who didn't know who he was, and he also didn't know the scumteam, so investigated me, and lied about the result to help tell me, "DUDE, I'M ON YOUR SIDE!" Basically, the only way I'm not confirmed town is if BOTH the scum AND the traitor were unaware of each other. The traitor role can be done any number of ways (both know each other, neither know each other, scum knows traitor, traitor knows scum; usually, which is which depends on whether the scum can recruit the traitor by nightkilling them), but that's the only way it'd not confirm me as town. Because if I knew him as scum, and he didn't know me, then him telling me woulda been unnecessary, as I'd already know. If he knew me, then he wouldn't have investigated me--and there's no hints he investigated anyone other than me, as far as I can tell.

Tl;dr, there's pretty much only one scenario where I'm possibly scum, and it's an uncommon variation on the role which isn't used often, making me pretty close to confirmed town. Hence why I'm dissatisfied that I'm still alive*.

It doesn't matter if he knew the scumteam or not. He was still saying his result to them. And honestly, it doesn't matter if the scumteam knew him or not, either, as regardless of the circumstances, he had at least one scum on his wagon, two if they didn't know him.


*Speaking of which, I need to check mcqueen's reads. He was largely seen as a townread, yes, but I need to see if he was killed for being a townread unlikely to be protected, if he was killed PR-hunting, if he was killed for his scumhunting, or some combination of the above. He's dead for a reason, though.

Regardless of if Sly knew/was known by the Mafia, he could say whatever he wanted. Argument invalid. I'm not exactly saying I think you're scum, I'm just saying you're not confirmed town by any sense.

Live mutual scumhunting is always better than doing it separately.

Right now,
Kise
BL
Pine
Andy
you

are all CONFIRMED TOWN AND SHOULD NEVER BE LYNCHED EVER.
anyone else?

Could you please explain the BL and Andy town?

SlySly - 8(Knox, [peoplelistedastown], Kondi, BBmolla)

So if Knox being the first and only scum on the wagon feels awkward, and you don't think Kondi's worth pushing, does that mean you think that BBMolla's scum, Nacho?

no, that's not right.
bbmolla is not scum.
kondi is scum, and i made a mistake.

No time. VOTE: BL

This is his response to your Sly vote.

First thing's first; why do you feel BB-town?
Second, that was at less than a day until deadline with Sly having three votes and Bunny having six. That really didn't seem like enough time, and the Sly wagon happened pretty fast. Looking in context, is the move really that damning?
Third, that is assuming that I, as Mafia, knew Sly was a Traitor and tried to save him when I had been pushing on him earlier. We don't know if the Mafia knew about Sly. Are Traitors usually outed to their Mafia group?


For right now, I'm going to VOTE: BBMolla as the scummiest on Sly's wagon. I'll also look further into Bunnylover, knox, and mastin, who were the people on the wagon I feel null on.

[Bunnylover]

@TS: I'm more then sure I expressed my read on SlySly before any kind of wagon formed on him and was early on his wagon. How was I ridding it?
As for the QT, we did post. Me just saying its possible to talk, and Pine saying that 1 scum were down 2 to go and something else that wasn't important. I think it was that talking probably won't happening.

If we are playing the game of PoE, I would rather go with Chk then BBM. BBM I haven't seen or been convinced that he is scum.

VOte: Chk

[Oversoul]

Hey guys, I didn't realize this game was opened from night.

I'll be rereading. I still think Matt is a good choice.

[knox]

Time to get back on it. Alrighty, still would like Oversoul and Twistedspoon to answer my question in #506.

Hey there thanks, I do. What are your current reads? What do you think about the Pine vs. Bunny neighbours quarrel?

On the Pine/BL neighbor thing... in a closed setup I have no reason to believe in that there are neighbors. Just for kicks, let's assume there are neighbors in this game and Pine and BL are them.

If they are neighbors, we can't know it until after one of them is dead; they can't give us any results (which could semi-confirm their role). If they are neighbors as they say and one is scum and the other one is town, discussing which is which is pretty much pointless (basically a NO U fight). Of course, we can see their actions/reactions/interactions and judge on them which one is scummier, then lynching one....

...Of course, that last sentence is exactly what we should do with everyone, at all times. In this case, the neighbor pair claim is of no use to town and can be a great distraction. On the other hand, the scrutiny under which the neighbors would fall in order to establish their innocence or guilt is exactly the same as if they weren't neighbors.

So, thanks Occam, we should treat them exactly the same as if there aren't any neighbors.

Reads will come later this afternoon

Really would like to hear Andy’s reads.

And what’s the difference between a mafia rolecop and a town traitor rolecop?

Okay. One thing first. This needs getting off of my chest.
Andy, are you a Miller?

Could you tell us why you think Andy is a miller? Where were you at the end of day 2?

Knew my ears were burning for some reason alrighty

Hey mastin, can you answer the question I asked you in my reads post?

Which question was that?

Also, of course whatever post 515 is makes me look town. I'm not exactly thrilled with the thought of it (I would be if I were dead the night after it happened, a-la-Underground Mafia ), but I'm pretty much confirmed town from Sly's rolecop of me.

VOTE: Knox. Unless the scum knew Sly was a traitor, his wagon pretty much has two scum guaranteed. (Even if they did, one scum is still pretty much confirmed.) I eliminated Kise and mcqueen. That left both neighbors (which contain a MAXIMUM of one scum), and three other names: {knox, kondi, BBMolla}. knox seems the most likely.

Explain why I seem most likely. Also you could say that on day 2 bunny seemed like the most likely lynch considering she consistently had a large number of votes and was the topic of scum discussion for a good many days. But you do not take the votes on her into account, why is that? Wouldn’t you think scum would be on that wagon which looked to be a sure lynch? I guess this could be seen a deflecting but that is not my intention, I’m just surprised that you haven’t included this in your thought process.

1. Someone explain to me why Kise is town

2. Knox is a fairly good vote.

3. I have a few fairly solid town reads but I need to check up something quickly. However Mastin/Nacho seriously need to realize that I'm town. <.<

Really, what are your reasons for thinking so?

Vote Oversoul

I don’t like oversouls overall play, constant confusion and missing crucial parts in the game. Votes for others for their lack of scumhunting when the same could be said for him.