Newbie 1233: Frogs & Toads Mafia (Town Win!)

[Voidedmafia]

TS, yo! Fancy seeing you here!

Oh, and /confirm.

To get the pleasantries out of the way, I'm Voidedmafia, your friendly neighborhood SE (Semi-Experienced) player for this game. This means I have at least two finished games under my belt on this site (though I do have far more than two, of course!). Nothin' overly special, but I've picked up a couple things that I can pass on if TS ever forgets *wink wink nudge nudge*

Just a reminder, though: Please keep the first line in my sig in mind when addressing me! 9 hour workweeks, while cash-heavy, don't exactly give me good MS time to use, so don't be overly alarmed if I don't reply right away.

With that done...*cocks shotgun* it's time to get down to business.

[Voidedmafia]

Anyways, Glad to meet you all. Most of you I won't be familiar playing with (with the exception of VM from some horrible game in which I distinctly remember him lynching me D1. Let's hope that doesn't happen again.)

LIES! LIES AND DECEIT, I TELL YOU!

I don't even remember what game you're talking about, anyways...

[Voidedmafia]

Oh...that one...

I prefer to keep that out of my mind, really. Even if it was a perfect scumgame for me and him.

[Voidedmafia]

It wasn't a perfect scumgame at all... Unless the perfect scumgame relies on some VI town to go and hammer the cop before he can even claim on page 5 >_>

//rant

He did two quickhammers in a row, btw. A perfect scumgame is a perfect scumgame (in that no scum died at all), but believe me I take no pride in that one at all.

[Voidedmafia]

So, are we good to go now?

[Voidedmafia]

Well, there's our first scum down. That was easy.

[Voidedmafia]

Well, there's our first scum down. That was easy.

. . . umm--are you going to tell us who it is? Or are you waiting until the game starts so you can vote them?

...Maybe.

[Voidedmafia]

Vote: Zyx

[Voidedmafia]

I just voted him, didn't I?

TS: Oi, play now, revenge later.

[Voidedmafia]

TS: Oi, play now, revenge later.

which part of me isn't playing?

THe part that seems to be going after me for the lost in that newbie game.

[Voidedmafia]

why are you overreacting to my RVS vote?

That isn't particularly indicative of town here amigo~

Well, if you think that me thinking you're just going for a semi-revenge vote for RVS is overreacting, I guess that's your opinion.

[Voidedmafia]

well you're trying to get me to switch my

RANDOM

vote

which clearly is troubling you. You should have nothing to fear since it's random yet at the first chance you tell me to take it off~

Eh, if that makes ya feel better, go think that.

[Voidedmafia]

For using html tags, like in the QT's. Not a bad scumslip, imo.

[Voidedmafia]

Larry: Don't really care to answer them.

Asher: Pretty good observation. Thankfully, those who can pull that off well are rather few here on MS.

[Voidedmafia]

Tumblr, eh? I don't use that, so I wouldn't know. You're good for now.

Larry: I just let it flow. That works just about as much as it hurts, if you can't guess. Sometimes I play along with RQS and/or RVS, sometimes I don't. Just depends on how I feel.

[Voidedmafia]

Oi, just because I don't always start out with discussing doesn't mean I have zero interest! Terrible misrep of what I was trying to say. Just terrible. Not to mention, as TS said, the game only just started and not everyone's checked in. Impatient, much?

vote: Larry Bird

[Voidedmafia]

Impatience is not always a towntell. We both know that.

At this point is is more of a null-tell than a scum-tell, but I'm fine with that right now.

[Voidedmafia]

Okay, you got me there. But us two debating against each other isn't going to get us anywhere, now is it?

(that, and I have work soon, so chit-chat'll have to wait.)

[Voidedmafia]

Hey, you were supposed to poke and prod people while I was at work, TS! Quit slacking and having me pick up!

Larry: Why did you immediately jump to that conclusion?

Xeph: Did you accidentally click submit or something?

Asher: Speaking of your observation, do you believe any of us 3 (our IC TS and the two SEs, one of which being myself) could possibly do the "wolf in sheep's clothing" act? I don't want you to say yes just because we're the SEs/IC, though.

Actually, now I'm content with Zyx as a townread. Very clear obliviousness to QuickTopic as a whole that reads as townie.

[Voidedmafia]

I have no idea how to start a game. These random questions are just something I tought I try out. Why I say zero interest is because that is the feeling I get when I read your posts. I also dont see you putting up an alternitive and so my gut tells me, he doesnt care for the game. That the game only just started is in my eyes not really an excuse. The days are already counting and I have been in a pervious game where we started the first couple of days ( in day 1) with only a few people.
I guess what I am trying to say is that I expect from an SE or IC that they get the game rolling or atleast explain to the newbies how to do that. You can act all but hurt how you want, but its just my oppinion. You cant exactly say that you have been very productive in this game so far. Im not saying that I have been so much more productive but I like to think that I try.

I have no interest in answering the

questions

, not playing this game. Even if my interest DID drop, I would still stay in until I'm dead (I'm very proud of the fact that I've never replaced out). I think there's a big difference between those two.

Also, while we as ICs/SEs are here to help you learn, we are also players in the match-up as well, and this is how I play as a player. I will go out of my way sometimes to help you lean (like if TS doesn't answer something), of course, but there's still me.

As for production, we're only three pages in. Expecting anything bigger than chit-chat is a little much.

[Voidedmafia]

To be honest, anyone can. That the three of you have more experience on this site is not entirely relevant to the question/observation. That's one reason I'm not too keen on using meta to try and pin down players. Past statements and past performance are not necessarily predictors of how players act in the current game because play-style is easily manipulated. And part of the fun of newbie games is that new players can be full of surprises.

That's true, and IIRC that's why some players consider meta to be bunk.

Don't get me wrong, I've happened to read a game or two you (VM) were in while trying to figure out how people tend to play games on this site. I do have plenty of respect for you as a player. But what's in the past is out the window, and for the moment you're just a name and an avatar posting in this thread just like anyone else.

Well, thanks for that, but out of curiousity, which ones did you read?

And FYI -- that isn't to say METAing doesn't have its uses. I've busted scum in the past in part by observing their constant activity in other games while making excuses about not fulfilling promises in the present game. It's just not the be-all-end-all some people make it out to be.

See the first quote.

[Voidedmafia]

Hey, you were supposed to poke and prod people while I was at work, TS! Quit slacking and having me pick up!

Dude, I'm not the caretaker of this thread. It isn't my role to pester you to post. If you don't want to post you shouldn't be in this game. It's the mod's role to prod and mine to vote and answer questions thus far~[/quote]
You're the one who got on me for not doing anything!

Besides I have that other game of yours which is too insanely active >_>

You mean that open?

I don't have any great reads at present. Larry's eagerness and your inquisitiveness could be interpreted as town I suppose. VM has also acted a bit rash and impulsive thus far I feel to be scum. However these reads are weak, premature and subject to change

Could you restate your read on me? I feel like either you missed a word or I'm missing something.

I'm no expert on VM. I hardly recall our last game and he was scum then anyways so even if I could recall I have no clue what he's like as town. If he tries to get you quick-lynched on page 5 like last time I played with him though then he's probably scum.

Why're you blaming that on me?! Ajolin quicklynched you!

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: TS: Oh, wait, do you mean my modded game?

[Voidedmafia]

Please, Chrim. I had perfect reasons to be pissed.

TS: A.) Not as freaky as Larry, but yes.

B.) See the EBWOP question.

C.) Thank you.

D.)...Actually, didn't I replace on page 5 that game? I certainly don't remember getting to push anyone that early (especially since that was one of my first few games as mafia). Besides, I largely only QL at LyLo/MyLo, so yeah.

E.) I just realized that with the EBWOP, so yeah <_<.

[Voidedmafia]

Sorry for disappearing, this week was very long and filled with homework. u___u

VOTE: Xenoria

I wouldn't be surprised if the whole VM vs. The World thing was just a bunch of townies arguing with each other, hence my vote; there's not much the mafia could have done now.

VM vs. the world? What's that supposed to mean?!

Zyx: no.

[Voidedmafia]

Xenax: I AM AN ENDLESS BARREL OF ARGUMENTATION!...but yeah, I think I'm done.

(plate of cookies if you know who and what I'm referencing (as in, the work it's from and who says the line I'm roughly quoting)).

Anyways, good job catching yourself with your own argument. It's fun when it's easy.

Vote: Zenax

[Voidedmafia]

Hey, no fair using TVTropes!

Though, you haven't said who Mr. Exposition is, and wheres he's from.

But still, are you expecting everyone to vote by this point or something? Staying back and letting me argue with everyone isn't a bad point, but are you really expecting people to have votes out all the time?

Also, Larry: This is how you can start discussion! Or one way!

[Voidedmafia]

TS: Please, that's just your opinion. (A beautifully-worded opinion, granted)

Zenax: I would've gotten on you for asking him to say something at this point, but I don't like his most recent post. Granted, it's pointed at one particular person, but regardless there's plenty of posts from other people, Zephor (like me!). Why not comment on those?

vote: Xephoria

[Voidedmafia]

Oh, it's a poem TS posted in one of my modded games (ongoing, so that's all I'm saying). He might just repost it anyways at this poinst, so meh...

Also, could you elaborate a little more on why having me pick up on your accusation is necessarily bad? I see your point about easy lynches, but those aren't all bad (they generally ARE, mind, but it's not like they're super horrible), and isn't any extra bit of pressure to get Zeph to say something a good thing?

[Voidedmafia]

So you're basically wanting to pressure him, but don't particularly like how it's being done. I can roll with that.

Chrimi, stop being useless or I'll yell at you again.

[Voidedmafia]

Hey, I'm not trying to do that! I understand what you were saying, and I like that thinking!

[Voidedmafia]

It's fine. So long as we understand each other.

Pere: Larry David seems to be nearing prod range. Please do that when you're able?

[Voidedmafia]

That is L-2, right?

[Voidedmafia]

No, I think that's actually L-1.

Unvote

[Voidedmafia]

No, I like bolding, thank you very much!

But, enough idle talk (I thought you were supposed to cut that down?). Larry David just became hypocritical by saying i've lost interest and then gets into prod range; Chrimi nor Xephoria haven't even posted anything worth substance. Don't have any comments at all about this, or what's been going on?

[Voidedmafia]

Well, more than you've said, anyways.

[Voidedmafia]

hmph, that's not my fault, now is it?

But cmon, man. Get some work done.

[Voidedmafia]

Larry David just became hypocritical by saying i've lost interest and then gets into prod range; Chrimi nor Xephoria haven't even posted anything worth substance.

You are right here, dont have much time on my hands atm and also, there is not that much going on. But you are right non the less.
Do you find that I have posted something of substance?

Well, consdering you were gone for 3 days after you got all upset, no.

hmph, that's not my fault, now is it?

But cmon, man. Get some work done.

get some work done?

What more to you want? I've given all my early game reads and there isn't any Vote-count analysis or any analysis at all to do thus far~

What do you mean, there's no analysis?

And what early game reads?

@Zenax At that time I wasn't reading much into it and didn't mind their argument since I couldn't have really done or added anything to it.
I'm not doing much because I don't have any reads other than gut reads but if thats what you want, just ask. :/

What Zenax said. Just be aware that gut shouldn't always be the meat of your case. It has it's place, but being the main reason you want to lynch somehow shouldn't be it.

[Voidedmafia]

And that means you can just ignore everything else, does it?

vote; Chrimi

[Voidedmafia]

...And that means you can just ignore everything else, including the question I just asked you?

[Voidedmafia]

I'm still here but busy/hectic weekend. Nearly L-1 on Xeph already. Looks like I need to do some ISOs (in addition to Zenax and Voided's interaction -- which raised my eyebrows)

And the result of this has been...?

[Voidedmafia]

So...you're not going to comment on anything else?

[Voidedmafia]

My vote stands, then.

[Voidedmafia]

...and you're not helping yourself.

[Voidedmafia]

...Okay, I have no goddamn clue what you're doing.

[Voidedmafia]

I'm glad I fufilled some of your daily laughter.

I don't think he was like this in the game that we played together. Then again, I did get irritated at him mid-game for seeminigly insinuating out-of-game-norm contact, so.

[Voidedmafia]

...Okay, I have no goddamn clue what you're doing.

I do not either. Then again, it's interesting to see how you have questioned multiple people in this thread but it is only Chrimi who you beat against the brick wall with. You seem very willing to move from person to person.

Well, either my queries are answered satisfactorily, they're not answered, or they're answered but the person doesn't do so satisfactorily but seems to indicate that s/he doesn't want to answer it. Btw, guess which one Chrimi is?

Also, could you elaborate a little more on why having me pick up on your accusation is necessarily bad? I see your point about easy lynches, but those aren't all bad (they generally ARE, mind, but it's not like they're super horrible),

and isn't any extra bit of pressure to get Zeph to say something a good thing?

Is your goal merely to get him up and talking? A lot of your posts seem to be more trying to rile people up to get a reaction than scumhunting. I think it's time to break it down a bit -- what have you learned about the town from your interactions with its members so far Voided?

At that point, yes. Neither Xeph nor Chrimi had posted anything worth mentioning (still haven't, either), and I want them to start doing such.

And I'll get back to you on that.

From my vantage point, I see a game where a lot of people are having trouble getting started and kind of waiting for others to do the pushing. Voided seems to either be trying to get the ball rolling or is merely trying to look like he is doing so to appear "town."

Take your pick.

VM vs. the world? What's that supposed to mean?!

Just a vague reference to

Scott Pilgrim vs. The World

and how you interacted with a lot of people in the game so far (Twistedspoon, Zyx, Larry David, asher1611, Chrimi). Okay, maybe they're not all townies, but I'd still rather go fish than join an argument I don't get the point of.

So we're all Voided's evil Ex's? Too bad I lost my vegan powers.

And I think you're overstating what voided is doing here. I don't think his aggressiveness necessarily makes him town, but you raising a "everybody vs X" fallacy does seem like it is trying to redirect attention onto voided to get other people to tunnel him.

You sure he needs to direct attention to me? Far as I can tell I should have the attention of pretty much everyone playing.

Also, I'm not a fan of easy lynches.

Granted, sometimes you'll get lucky and nab a mafia that way, but more often than not it'll end up in having the doctor or other power roles lynched without them having the chance to correctly defend themselves. But that's pretty much the opinion you have worded differently.

I don't like where you're going with this. Why does one have to make a lynch more difficult for themselves than necessary? The process is simple: find the person who you think is most likely to be subverting the town, vote for that person, convince others to do the same, and lynch. If you were right, great. So many people are concerned about being in the crosshairs or espousing too much about making the "anti-town" play. To me this sounds like you're trying to appear town by speaking too much. Don't like bandwagons? Sometimes they happen with good reason and sometimes the scum slip and jump on board at the wrong time.

So instead of looking for people who are subverting the town, you get in an exchange with voided and follow it up by sitting back to take in the other fireworks while never fully resolving your points.

I have my own thoughts on this (and to state it simply, I both agree and disagree), but I'll let Zenax answer first before I do.

~Quote tags corrected~

[Voidedmafia]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

Pere, plz fix the quote tags if you can?

[Voidedmafia]

Don't worry, I could follow what you wrote.

"You sure he needs to direct attention to me? Far as I can tell I should have the attention of pretty much everyone playing."

Of course you have people's attention, you have been the most active player in the game + you have the IC target on your back. My point is that he is merely looking to "redirect" attention to you, thus shedding attention brought to himself by the exchange you two drew each other into.

And yes, it does seem fairly obvious what your opinion of Chrimi is. I don't know what to make of it at this point other than stonewalling and waiting for X person to respond doesn't seem like terribly constructive Day 1 play.

Well, A.) I'm the SE, not the IC, so...

But yes, that isn't constructive play. It's very far from constructive play, which is why I want him to do more than that.

[Voidedmafia]

Well, best of luck, Asher.

[Voidedmafia]

Have fun dying, Asher.

Do you enjoy being useless? Quoted post excluded.

[Voidedmafia]

*slaps Chrimi

Best of luck Asher. You'll be in my prayers. This game is nothing important. I hope it all works out amigo.

Agree with both paragraphs.

[Voidedmafia]

Bit too late to ask him now, innit?

[Voidedmafia]

Ya. hi. Get moving so these other sad sacks (Zenax excluded) will, too.

Oh, and vote Chrimi.

[Voidedmafia]

Not close enough to a lynch, at least. Think I'm the only vote on him, but it's a good spot to vote.

[Voidedmafia]

That's right, vote the V/LA guy...

You're posting enough while you're under V/LA, you obviously have the time to get some sort of shit done.

[Voidedmafia]

Using mafia to ease things is fine. I'm fine with that, so long as you don't try to bring personal stuff or any rants into here.

Being on MS and NOT DOING ANYTHING when you're supposed to be on V/LA is something else entirely, regardless of V/LA reasons.

[Voidedmafia]

I'm not really 'here', I get about 15 minutes a day and that's not near enough time to read everything in all of the games I'm in.

And I love how VM just says "Sic em" and this little puppets come over and follow him without anything but "Yeah I agree."

You can post more than little one-liners in less than 15 minutes. Even with the games you're in you can still at least managed one or two lines of content.

Also, that got a chuckle outta me. *plays with pretend marionette strings holding the other players while humming Master of Puppets*

Xephoria: I have been more or less getting into to business of every player that's been in this game. Discuss your thoughts on this ASAP, please.

[Voidedmafia]

What about that list of reads you were planning on posting?

me?

[Voidedmafia]

I trust you can actually post something now that your V/LA's effectively over?

Mod: We need prods up in here, pronto.

[Voidedmafia]

BAKA BAKA! BAKA BAKA!

...Okay, good, got that out of my system. Welcome, m8.

[Voidedmafia]

That'll do, Chrim.

unvote
vote: Xephoria

Mostly from what Chrim said (only trying to keep a semblance of posting stuff when he's really not posting anything worthwhile). Thought I had some interactions with him from the VM vs. The World stuff, but apparantly not. Cries like "I don't know what to post!" and such do sound like a newb complaining about what to do, but he's also twice asked people to post more and hasn't followed up on either times (Here to Chrim and here to Llud). He also says he has gut reads but apparantly hasn't done anything to solidify them beyond that, and the only thing that reads as something of a definite opinion is his last post, whose sentiment has already been shared by most of us since then.

TS and Zenax read town. Zyx and Llud I have little in terms of a definite read (Llud because one post does not a read always make, Zyx because of his unfortunate computer problems). Elmo's fine for now, but I do want to see what he does next. Larry was fine, but I want to wait for his slot to get a replacement before I go dig any holes over there.

[Voidedmafia]

Awesome, I don't have to be yelled at by VM again >.<

It was very intimidating to be yelled at by the IC in my first game. *shivers*

But the yelling was good for you!

Elmo: Fuck if I know. I have half a mind to yell at each one in turn when they post (if I catch theirs as the latest post) because god, this game is going slow.

Though, you can take your vote of Chrimi now, Elmo.

[Voidedmafia]

...Explain how that's bussing, Chrimi.

[Voidedmafia]

The lack of follow-up toward Xeph is rather troubling, though the lack of vote movement can possibly be chalked up to forgetfulness. He still needs to get his ass in here.

[Voidedmafia]

What, don't tell me he got turned off by a stupid meme? Cmon, Cirno.

Elmo: Sadly, mostly anything at this point would be forced, unless you're going to do a case on Chrimi or myself. This town is woefully inactive and it's killing me.

[Voidedmafia]

We've only been here for roughly a year and 4 months, how is that "old"?!

[Voidedmafia]

At least as fellow players, anyways.

[Voidedmafia]

First off: That ribbit? Don't ever do that again. Ever.

secondly, I find myself in huge agreement with those reads. You can consider yourself town until further notice. Just don't ribbit again. You're not Suwako.

[Voidedmafia]

Why, Elmo?

[Voidedmafia]

Haven't we played together, Nurc?

Also, prior to Axxle replacing, no one had posted anything worth something for the past 3 pages or so, Xephoria included. It's nice to see that activity may finally pick up now, but my votes at this point were to try and spur some people into actually participating, or at least those who had already talked a little more than others. Chrimi, Elmo, and I could talk ourselves in circles, but if we're all town then that doesn't do us one lick of good.

Simply put: Show me activity and I'll show you an unvote.

P-EDIT: Twisted, Elmo seemed to imply that if one of us is scum, the other is too, not that one or the other is scum

[Voidedmafia]

264: Yes, pretty much

265: Don't be a load, please? I know you can play, so please do so.

266: 1.) That works, too.

2.) I coulda sworn we've been in another game, though. I know you were dead before I came in that game, but still.

267: Whether or not being at each other's throats is good or bad depends on the state of the game and how well both players (or all, if we were in a non-Newbie with a 3+ scumteam) can convincingly bus each other and come off town (or work it for towncred, if the bussing leads to a lynch). I wouldn't be surprised if one or both scum is among the lurkers right now (that is, everyone except NurC, TS, Chrim, Axxle, and Elmo).

Also, why do you keep bolding names?

270:...*sigh* you're going to be difficult, aren't you?

Dislike the slight misrep from NurC against Axxle about that statement. I think it was fairly clear that Axxle was simply wanting to start putting pressure on TS. While I admit the wording is questionable, the intent was rather clear.

275: D1 lynches do happen almost always, and SHOULD happen. Even if we get a mislynch on a townie, that's still information we can use to help narrow down suspects. Unless we quicklynch, then it's effectively useless most of the time. D1 quicklynches are rather few and far between, though, so they're still the best course of action.

In fact, we SHOULD usually go for a lynch if at all possible because that's the only way we can actually lynch scum, but no-lynches can be used strategically if necessary. Just not on D1.

276: So? He still shouldn't do it -_-

277: The sentiment expressed is appreciated, but the logic is rather wrong (unless I'm reading it wrong). Unless you're playing a Theme game or a Marathon here, MS games always start on the day phase nowadays. Though, for D1 (and maybe D2) any cops shouldn't worry too much about being lynched as they're just in a pool of other potentials at that point (unless they claim or otherwise out an investigation, then they become prime NK-bait).

278: You say that you don't have a problem with me, yet at the end you say your gut says I'm scum? Isn't that contradictory?

279: Wait, what exactly made the early Xeph wagon terrible?

Also, see 219.

283: The vote is fine based on the reasoning given, but this post still feels like Elmo's just trying to ride on the curtails of the people who are already voting TS.

286: 1.) It's true that scum aren't exactly likely to fake that sort of thing (then again, if anyone tried faking that just to get out of a game I would permanently blacklist them depending on some factors related to the excuse. But even scum have real-life things to attend to at times, so I find instances of clear townieness from this to be the exception rather than the rule.

2.) I already mentioned this, but the quicklynch on him in that game wasn't due to his play, but due to the stupidity of a fellow townie. May I repeat that he quicklynched TWICE IN A ROW?

287: Axxle's been fairly good in the content department, and I don't see any sort of faking from 250, which is partially why I agreed with it (the main thing was that his thoughts closely mirrored mine, of course, but sincerity in the reads also helps).

291: STOP BLAMING ME! THIS ISN'T MY FAULT!

292: Say what you will about the reasoning, it's still at least semi-original. I do agree it's too...eh, convenient a vote, but it's not a bad vote on all accounts.

*phew*

[Voidedmafia]

Axxle: Just that the reasons you were trying to use to say he was poor were just flawed, really.

[Voidedmafia]

I was feeling that I was missing a crucial strategy since it sounds like mislynches aren't as bad as I think they would be. Thanks all for clarifying. Just to be sure I'm getting it right: Even if we mislynch, we'll be able to go back and see what people said about that person and may be able to better deduce who the mafia is.

Exactly

. Doubly so because you can't WIFOM a lynch. In other words, it's pretty much the only definite, factual, 100% absolutely true information that you'll ever get in ANY game you play, period. EXCEPT for the rare instances of Janitors or other flip-hiding/reversing roles, but those are the exception and also non-Newbie.

283: The vote is fine based on the reasoning given, but this post still feels like Elmo's just trying to ride on the curtails of the people who are already voting TS.

talk to me about the reasoning because I honestly didn't get a word of it

Well, you've got me in that it's nothing I'd sing praises about (really, it's rather mediorce), but the point is that it works enough that I could accept it to push a vote. I wish it was BETTER, but it works.

I am NOT asking for a hammer, but would anyone be willing to lynch TS that isn't already voting him?

I do not intend to lynch TS.

Xeph you're obvious town and are going to be defended by me until forever. Now put it to good use. Can you give updated reads?

The point still stands that

those who were or still are voting Xeph should explain themselves ASAP.

Did you read what I said for me? Look at 219.

[Voidedmafia]

...Okay, NOW I'm clueless.

[Voidedmafia]

Elmo, do explain why you think what you quoted from bon is more scummy than null.

Axxle: No, I don't think he did.

[Voidedmafia]

Voided, I haven't posted much cause my post is on somebody very sketchy- And I'm waiting for him to get a vote down.

Okay, maybe not a

question

, but still

[Voidedmafia]

Oh.

Yes, I was talking about Xeph.

I made a case about him earlier, kind of short but to the point. Hence VM's vote.

...Oh.

*slowly facepalms* right...

[Voidedmafia]

I'm glad you think so highly of me <_<. I'd like you to explain how TS is "different", too.

But I agree with Elmo, Bon. Fencesitting on this isn't going to get you anywhere, and there's no way us four (Elmo, kondi, myself, and hopefully TS) are going to let you just hem and haw and complain about not being able to do stuff. Do a good once-over on the thread, get some basic thoughts out, at least. It'd be preferable if you could definitively answer Elmo's question, but just basic thoughts on people so far will just about suffice.

Xeph: I trust you're going to at least make a read on the replacements that have posted?

Kondi: NurC isn't THAT town, really

[Voidedmafia]

How is that related at all...?

And why SHOULD I trust you?

[Voidedmafia]

Not sure what lynch I'd want to go with if we had to compromise, reallly. I just don't think it's TS.

Speaking of TS, I have something for you. You know that early on in the game I was just as free with my vote as elmo has been, and I believe you said that was a towntell. I know you've written out how you feel about Elmo's vote-hopping, but do you believe we both have commited the same towntell?

(...On reading that, I don't think what I wanted to say came out right, but I hope you get what I'm asking.)

[Voidedmafia]

So, in essence: Would you agree to Kondi's suggestion to compromise on elmo?

P-EDIT: not exactly weird if it looks somewhat true, though.

[Voidedmafia]

Not really, no. Just pointing it out.

[Voidedmafia]

What reason do you have for taking TS and VM off the table?

I'll compromise with an Elmo lynch.

That way.

[Voidedmafia]

Oh, and Pere, I will be V/LA from next Tuesday to next Saturday/Sunday. It MAY be semi-LA if I can bring my laptop (or can have enough access to a comp to post at least once a day), but I'd just make it a full V/LA just in case. Giving you a heads-up.

[/color]

[Voidedmafia]

God I don't want to lycnh TS. Besides, kondi, I just don't seem him as being as scummy as you say he is.

P-EDit: Ouch... Hope you feel better soon, NurC

[Voidedmafia]

We're not lynching TS, either.

[Voidedmafia]

*cough*

I understood what he was trying to say, NurC. Again, it's not a GOOD argument (and I have expressed the sentiment that Elmo was just trying to get on the wagon quickly, or something along those lines), but it's not a BAD one either, and it barely suffices for placing a vote in my mind.

[Voidedmafia]

Hmm. I'm sure that it's not TS and VM because I just see no point in anything they're doing as scum. They're just acting like their normal townie selves, and nothing different. I got major gut town reads from them, so don't expect me to vote either.

"Normal townie self"?

Chrimi, how many games of mine have you read/watched?

Kondi: He's not scum.

Every post he posts is only when he's asked for & it contains nothing to do with the game except
"Thanks for buddying me kondi :3"

Or he's complaining about not being able to say anything <_<.

Axxle: Re Chrimi and kondi - I have a scumread on Xeph, though I seem to be the only one who does.

Re Elmo - THis is kinda his style, I think. I don't have too much of his meta remembered enough to be definite, but this does feel like his usual play.

re me - No, second-guess yourself.

...I was going to try and impart some IC-like wisdom after that, but my mind got jumbled, so X_X.

Does anyone feel like bon's 412 is just sort of regurgitating previous reads from everyone else?

P-EDIT: But, TS, who's going to be my head-bash buddy? *sadface*

[Voidedmafia]

Don't worry, buddy, I'll bust ya out! I'll get al Phoenix Wright on their asses!

[Voidedmafia]

Good choice, Kondi. At least now he can't be quicklynched, right? (and he can stop heckling me about it <_<)

Though, why me or Chrimi, kondi?

[Voidedmafia]

Could you try to put a little bit more into that (well, except for TS, anyways)?

[Voidedmafia]

Haven't exactly done any re-reading over this (V/LA and all, and anything I did during that was for the games that were still in the day phase), but let's see:

certainly not you or Kondi, that's for sure. (obvious answer is obvious, no?)

I don't believe Axxle is, either. I've liked his content so far and disagree with NurC's assessment that's he's done more IIoA. And any that does occur seems to be more of a newbier trying to reason out things and directly/indirectly asking those of more experience to consider what he's said and agree/disagree. I would be surprised if he flipped scum.

Xeph is still possible as scum, though my suspicion of him seemed to have lowered over the night. Looking over his assessment of Bonooru, it keeps looking to me like he's trying to lightly coach him or get him to start posting so he won't get killed (which, of course, he never did and what thus got him killed). That throwaway line to Bon in 416 ("That doesn't mean I'm watching you") again feels like he's trying to urge his buddy to post again. Most of everything else is just the same flailing and complaining about not being able to do anything.

I have no idea about Elmo, and quite frankly don't feel like trying to sort through that jigsaw puzzle. If he's town, he's mislynch material, as you said. If he's scum, well, I suppose we'll find out.

Chrimi is possible. Don't quite have the time now (thanks procrastination and overthinking), but I will try to remember to look over his ISO post-V/LA for anything.

(on an unrelated note, yay for me going back to work -_-)

[Voidedmafia]

I didn't vote because I was hurrying to get out the door to pick up my car, and I didn't want to leave my dad waiting. I know I'm horrible for letting real life get in the way, but I had work to get to, as well.

Elmo, I said why I only thought Chrimi is possible. Also, I did rather solidly say Axxle isn't the last scum and that Xeph probably is (yes, "probably", don't get knotted up because I'm not being sure). And I said you're a jigsaw puzzle because to my mind right now I just don't know what to think of you. I do lean more to the side of you being a mislynch, though.

TS: Wrong. Axxle isn't even close to being conftown and I said he's not scum.

Though, Chrimi, why Axxle? I'm guessing it's due to either Bon or NurC, but given that you didn't mention him in any scummy light prior to now and all, I'd like to know what changed.

Vote: Xephoria

Kondi: What if there's no kill?

[Voidedmafia]

*hands you some aspirin*

Here's a TL;DR: Axxle isn't scum, Xeph is most likely, you're most likely not (or if you are you'll be found out eventually), Chrimi I don't have a clue yet.

[Voidedmafia]

Reads a lot like scum trying to just throw everyone off, or something along those lines.

[Voidedmafia]

Okay, Kondi, go over it with me one more time: Why Chrimi?

[Voidedmafia]

...PoE, then? I guess I'll just have to be satisfied with that.

Not voting him, though.

[Voidedmafia]

If he's not dead Night 2 then it's either him or the guy he jailed, right?

Or the scum is stupid enough to not shoot the possibly real JK. And if they do that they pretty much kinda deserve to lose.

Chrimi: Okay, let's say that post is scummy. What about the rest? What are you seeing that's so scummy that the rest of us aren't?

[Voidedmafia]

Pro-tip: Don't talk about NK's in advance, it gives scum the advantage.

It's not really much in the way of giving an advantage when there's really no other target for scum tonight. Other than TS.

[Voidedmafia]

I don't. Be specific.

[Voidedmafia]

It doesn't seem like you guys are going to post much I would like to see what you see is scummy in axxle. Not implying that I think hes town just that I don't see anything at all :3 Voided n' Chrimi n' Axxle? (assuming Kondi is not lying.) I don't even have a gut read on this -.-

...What?

[Voidedmafia]

More like, what did that post even SAY?

[Voidedmafia]

Thank you for that translation. Unfortunately, the most important part of the post (the part after the catface) is still obscured, which makes me dislike it even more.

[Voidedmafia]

Well then, suffice to say I'm not joining an Axxle wagon anytime soon.

[Voidedmafia]

TS, that's really my point. Unless they want to fake out the town with some kill WIFOM, kondi is 100% who they should shoot.

Also, you two (Chrimi and Kondi) really fail in trying to persuade others, don't you? -_- Or at least those like me that aren't swayed by gut alone.

[Voidedmafia]

As scum, I would always kill Voided N1....

Um...thanks?

TS: What changed?

Xeph: Well, work it out then. I know everyone has a point where they just don't know what to do with a game anymore, but you can't let that be the entire game. ISO one of us, and make up your mind.

[Voidedmafia]

You really trust my ability as town that much, huh...?

[Voidedmafia]

Yep.

Then again, you're like my mafiascum father figure. You yelled at me in my first game when I did something wrong, etc.

Heh. Got a laugh out of me, that.

I wouldn't put much into my town play, though. I'm not THAT good (TS is probably better than me).

[Voidedmafia]

YOU'RE the unpredictable one, here!

Besides, my play (both as town and scum) has somewhat degenerated since I got my job <_<.

[Voidedmafia]

Read my flavor, if it'll help. I usually leave a post with all the flavor at the end (except 1248, because that game's flavor got eaten up in the crash. I did save it, so I can PM it to you if you want to read it).

[Voidedmafia]

Btw, did you like my PM response?

[Voidedmafia]

As for the flavor, it's all right. 5.5/10, would probably read again, etc.

[Voidedmafia]

Also, nice usage of Godot! Also, COFFEEEEEEE! *ahem*

But, in seriousness, it's like we're at an impasse. TS and Kondi (or at least Kondi, dunno about TS) aren't going to vote Xeph anytime soon (and they're both off the lynch list, as well, in case you've forgotten); Kondi most likely get enough support to lynch you, Chrimi (unless he can rope in Xeph, TS, and Axxle; short of a scumslip or a good scumtell I'm probably not going to lynch you today); you, Chrimi, won't get enough to lynch Axxle (no, really, you won't, he's practically untouchable today. Not unless you man up and actually use more than just gut and "SCUMTELLZ ALKFJALDFJALKDJ!").

That does (unfortunately, in my eyes) leave me as the last man left. I don't particularly MIND, but I don't like it in this instance because it's not because everything has some sort of well-defined reason against me, but just because I am, as I just said, effectively the only viable lynch left, and that just irks me.

Possible AtE aside, go ahead and lynch me if you can't get yourselves out of this rut, but I just wish you guys had more.

[Voidedmafia]

How about everyone else flips a coin (heads being me, tails being Chrim), and one of us hammers whoever gets to three votes first, or something?

...and I just realized I completely forgot about Elmo, who is, like, barely here...As for him, I really don't know where he'll fall if we stall long enough with Xeph at L-1. A quick look at his post-D2 ISO only indicates he likes a Xeph lynch and doesn't want me lynched (or at least isn't very keen on it). Kondi is usually the upredicable one most of the time, but I think that right now Elmo's the X-factor here.

[Voidedmafia]

Well, right NOW, the only two viable lynches are Xeph (who's at L-1 with you, me, and Elmo voting him), and you (with Kondi and Axxle). There has been enough talk going around that I could very well get run up to L-1 in Xeph's place (TS (inexplicably) and kondi make two, and Xeph is a possible third; you already said you wouldn't, Elmo isn't likely to as far as I can tell, and I don't think Axxle suspects me enough to want to hammer if Xeph does vote me, but the point still remains that I could very well become a competing wagon once Xeph's falls apart (and I'm not afraid to admit that that is becoming increasingly likely)).

Xeph: Vote one of your suspects, will ya? I will expect some sort of justification, of course, but damn me if I'm going to proverbially sit on both of my hands and let you slack off at L-1.

TS: In case you may miss it, why do you think I'm scum now? (I know you may say you won't/didn't, but I've done that before.)

Elmo: Please correct me if I'm wrong, but right now out of the current 5-man lynch pool (excluding kondi and TS), you are willing to at least lynch Xephoria, Chrimi, and Axxle? If the latter two are wrong in any way, could you please explain why?

[Voidedmafia]

Also, while I wouldn't mind trading flavor tips with Chrimi to pass the time, that's something better left to PMs and I'm honestly getting bored just talking to him.

...Eh, I'll change it back later.

Vote: Elmo TeH AzN

[Voidedmafia]

Father, don't call me boring :'(

Anyways, just lynch Xeph please D:

I'm not saying you're boring, just that I'd like others to talk to!

And right now, we need activity more than we need a lynch.

...Fuck it.

Vote: Twistedspoon

[Voidedmafia]

Chrimi, are we seriously the only two people up?

I saw Axxle here earlier, why didn't he post?

[Voidedmafia]

I am slightly more worried about Axxle. Elmo at least has the excuse of dealing with med-induced drowsiness. Axxle was here in the three for a bit earlier when we were really chatty, and he didn't say a word. If he's town, he should know that the lack of activity is what usually kills the town, and should've posted something in the meantime to keep us going. Scum, on the other hand, can just relax in this atmosphere (not COMPLETELY relax, of course, but they don't have to try as hard),

Good news, Chrimi: I'm not feeling as hot about Axxle being town anymore.

Vote: Axxle

[Voidedmafia]

Three should be "thread", btw <_<

[Voidedmafia]

It's okay, you were a kid once too daddy!

Okay that's getting old, I'll stop.

Yes. That was just getting wierder.

Elmo: Please don't disappoint.

[Voidedmafia]

Watch him turn it around.

...And I've had enough chit-chat for tonight. I just hope the afternoon and next evening will be more active.

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: Well, barring a sudden spike in activity before I really head to bed, anyways.

[Voidedmafia]

TS, you know why I voted you, right? I said so RIGHT IN THAT VERY SAME POST!

...You did know that, right?

[Voidedmafia]

Ugh, you PEOPLE!

Everyone can agree that voting someone conftown is not a good idea, yes? Everyone can agree that I, having a year and nearly 4 months of experience on this sight, would absolutely know that, yes? So tell me why, as scum, I would EVER do that with any sort of seriousness. Go on, give me one goddamn good reason why I would EVER do that, and I'll stop arguing.

(Hint: It's a trick question because you CAN'T. Axxle can be excused somewhat as a newbie, but I really thought you could do better, TS.)

Axxle, think. Just think about it for one minute. THINK! Why, as scum, would I do that? Why?

[Voidedmafia]

I wish I could, Elmo.

Also, because Kondi's a stubborn old fart.

[Voidedmafia]

And...where is he now?

[Voidedmafia]

BECAUSE I wanted people to talk, that's why.

Also, why should scum act

ir

rationally? Yes, I agree that scum would be more or less cornered at this point (assuming it's me or Chrimi), but wouldn't irrationally be counter-productive?

kondi:...weren't you voting me already?

[Voidedmafia]

Xeph, I think. Only other guy here with an X in his name (and the only one with an X as the first letter)

And Chrimi, I did get that, but do you honestly think that's me-scum squirming, regardless of WIFOM?

[Voidedmafia]

And Chrimi, I did get that, but do you honestly think that's me-scum squirming, regardless of WIFOM?

You?

Squirming?

Yeah right

Thanks for the support.

Anyways, TS, do answer my question, will you?

[Voidedmafia]

...I don't buy that.

[Voidedmafia]

I cared (and care) less about trying to mooch some sort of town motivation off of that and more about you people talking. That...didn't work as well as I'd hoped.

Also, your first line ONLY applies if the scum is me or Chrimi. Otherwise, I'd say scum is sitting fairly nicely in the other three peeps who aren't talking very much. And they get to because Kondi (mainly) is coddling them. Even if the scum IS between me or Chrimi, it's infuriating how much kondi is coddling them to the point where they can just disappear and it won't mean one goddamn thing because you'll STILL be stuck on trying to lynch one of us, and because they aren't even trying to get anything out there I just have to sit down, sulk, and accept it, and I'M NOT DOING THAT!

You think I'm scum? Fine, think I'm scum. I've stopped caring about that since Chrimi and I talked for two hours last night with NO ONE ELSE saying a word (especially Axxle who was there for the first bit of it). Whether I'm scum or I'm town, I'm not going to get lynched this half-assedly. They are going to POST SOMETHING! They are going to PARTICIPATE! They are going to WORK THEIR ASSES AND CARRY THEIR WEIGHT FOR THE REST OF THE GAME! THEN I'll submit quietly and nicely and maybe be all "oh, no, you caught me!" if I'm scum.

But let's get one thing clear: You. Are. Not. Lynching. Me. Yet.

[Voidedmafia]

Now,

ANSWER MY QUESTION!

[Voidedmafia]

AND THEN WHAT?! You can STILL LOSE! And even IF the rest of your plan goes smoothly, you'll still have shit to work with because the other non-scum there will have said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO HELP WITH ANYTHING!

Hell, at this point you're better off not killing me or Chrimi. At least you'd have something to work with come Lylo with one of us still alive.

[Voidedmafia]

Yknow, I do agree, it's not a bad plan (if we're still going off of 536, anyways). But by then that leaves TS and two other people who haven't said ANYTHING today. And that doesn't garauntee anything. Your plan is only autowin up to lynching Elmo. If it doesn't work by then, you're in deep shit, and I'm going to be in the dead thread saying, "I told you so" (or post-game).

[Voidedmafia]

Oh, I

understand

. I understand

perfectly

.

And I'm

not. Impressed.

Why can't you find anything scummy? Don't repeat that "I don't see anything!" Crap. give me something

specific

.

[Voidedmafia]

Well

start working

.

And kondi, shut up. Stop coddling him. All your insistence at him being town has prevented him from doing anything useful. I should know, it's the same thing that happens to me when I get anywhere near conftown status--I get complacent and don't do shit. You're enabling him to do NOTHING, and I will NOT allow this. (and I suppose all of us but Chrimi are enabling Axxle, but it's not AS bad because there's no one blatantl going "he's town" and trying to end discussion. He still needs to get his ass in here.)

I know Memorial weekend is now (or even if you don't celebrate it, spirit of the holidays), so I'll give you some leeway. But I do expect something contentful from you on/by Tuesday, or I will bring everything I can possibly muster this game down on you, Xephoria. Even you should be able to get a definitive read on me, Chrimi, or Axxle, and if you can at least do THAT much, that'll just have to be enough.

[Voidedmafia]

...Fine, I can deal with that.

If Xeph knows what's good for him, he'd start working on one of our ISO's right about now. That leaves Axxle, our little runaway. Only shows up to comment on the TS vote and just the TS vote. Nothing else. He's certainly not as...difficult as Xeph is in producing content, but that doesn't explain why he isn't here.

Maybe I should vote kondi and see if that draws him out <_</

P-EDIT: I'll give you Elmo, though he gets a pass because he was dealing with a headache. He DID promise some stuff at least today, so I am waiting for that.

P-EDIT2: STOP DOING THIS TO ME!

anyways, to be fair, I don't I have an "insanely" strong townread on you, just enough of one that I'm averse to lynching you.

[Voidedmafia]

Chrimi, is that at me?

Xeph "He (I) gets things done and we can lynch him (me) later" Sure like leaving options open, don't you.

But you don't have to wait for Axxle. Just ISO him. My complaints are largely to make sure that if/when kondi's plan fails, you're not stuck in the mud because you all were sheep following the stupid shepherd to their rocky deaths by not having anything to use.

P-EDIT: No, I mean he got a pass on posting things now because he was dealing with a headache and was drowsy on meds (neither of which are productive to playing this game). I expect him to deliver something soon now that that's passed, though.

And yes, I believe he has.

[Voidedmafia]

Can't. It'd be stupid if you can. That way you can't falsify information.

Now, granted, I can edit my own, but I think that's because I'm modding games in the Newbie forum, I think. But I suppose they do trust us not to edit our own posts in other games, and anyone keen on modding their own would do well not to break that trust.

[Voidedmafia]

But yeah, the point is so you can't post something, realize it just implicated you (or some such), and then edit it to be less incriminating. You have to be held accountable for what you post, after all.

[Voidedmafia]

I really doubt he ISO'd all of us and can't find a single thing that looks scummy.

EXACTLY!

Also, give him a break. I know headaches aren't exactly best for thinking (and they can HURT), which is why he's got a little bit more leeway than Xeph or Axxle. I just hope he can get his work done <_<.

[Voidedmafia]

Oh, he's V/LA...-_. That explains SO MUCH.

SO I guess we'll just have to work with Xeph and Elmo, then.

[Voidedmafia]

unvote

[Voidedmafia]

unvote

I've been f*king saying im vla, wth guys???

I forgot. Sorry?

TS: Then help get Xeph to do something. Or kondi. Or yourself.

I mean, jeez, what am I doing, running the Asylum while I wait for kondi's imaginary timer to wind down?

[Voidedmafia]

really VM, after our last game you should have no objections to a, perhaps unfair, lynch from myself but w/e

i think xeph is town ever since his initial No lynch move, but he's still a hazard i suppose.

Are you STILL trying to blame me for that?!? Seriously? Let it go, and take it out on Ajolin if you ever see him.

Also, these are entirely different circumstances: A.) no one's trying to do some stupid gambit around L-1, and B.) no one's stupid enough to quickhammer anyone this game.

Kondi: Get off your goddamn high horse, stop prancing around like you're the Great One, and actually try doing stuff. Or, if you WANT to be Orcus On His Throne, shut up. You're just about as useless as Xephoria is right about now, and it's slightly more infuriating because this is actually what your style largely revolves around. You don't "let" me do anything, you don't control any one goddamn thing in this town that isn't specifically yours, and unless you can rope in Elmo, you can't get anyone lynched at this point.

Also, considering my ultimatum to Xeph yesterday, I'm declaring an intent to hammer come Tuesday if my demand from him hasn't been met.

[Voidedmafia]

Bleh, screw DP-ing.

Pere, please delete one of those ASAP?

~Done.

Also, the sad thing is is that I'm expecting Kondi to just ingore that.

[Voidedmafia]

No, you can explain now. What's so big you have to wait till post-game to say it?

[Voidedmafia]

hmmm...ah, no.

[Voidedmafia]

Considering Axxle unvoted, you didn't even have me at L-1.

Were you trying to fake me out or fake everyone else out?

[Voidedmafia]

Axxle has a good point. Bonooru was lynched during the graduation ceremony for my cousin, and I wasn't able to get any sort of access until Thursday.

THough, Axxle, if we still have your eyes on the computer, do you have anything else you want to add? Did you believe that me voting TS was scum desperation because he said it and you agreed with it or because that's what you honestly thought?

TS, I suppose I don't quite understand what you were trying to get from me. I mean, I understand the part about trying to see if I'd give it up as scum with a fakehammer, but such a play isn't something so one-dimensional.

P-EDIT: Well, that was an unexpected votechange.

...Feh, I'll save kondi the trouble.

Vote: Voidedmafia

GG, TS. You didn't get quicklynched this time, so be happy.

[Voidedmafia]

Also, I know you hate them, but PLEEEEEEASE join Open 409? PLEEEEASE?

[Voidedmafia]

TS, I never self-hammer as town. Ever. Except one time where I accidentally left someone's vote on me out of quote tags.

Also, it was really just a toss-up. Elmo and Xeph were mislynches; you, Axxle, and NurC were potential good town; and kondi was a wildcard. (Actually, I was secretly hoping kondi would be stupid this game)

[Voidedmafia]

Yes, you do -_-.

Kondi, I wouldn't reveal it then all the time, but it worked very well for this game.