I'm very sorry to all of you, but I'm going to replace out of this game. Real life is getting a bit too overwhelming for me to check this game very much, and it's not fair for me to have such low activity levels when real scumhunting is required. Good luck!
And I need to mention the case to answer the question, now? Unless there's some serious case of miscommunication, I fail to see how the post was NOT trying to outweigh the case on Bike.
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;
coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
Also keep an eye for setup review requests.
In post 842, Fishythefish wrote:And he really wasn't responding to "why did you do that?". He was responding to "this is a scum move", which makes quite a difference - it's not evasion, it's just saying what (from Macrotown's POV) is true - he made the move as town, and there's a town explanation.
In post 841, Fishythefish wrote:Unless I'm much mistaken, Macro said why he made that claim ages ago; to save his skin.
But, crass survivalism isn’t a town move even if it’s admitted up front; it’s a move both town and scum make and usually if you do assign it to one side of the equation or the other you assign it to the scum side of things.
I had nothing positive to say before and his vote is MASSIVELY bad news; go look back at his last dozen posts; there’s absolutely nothing about me being scum while be fiddles away at 4nxiety being scum and he even calls Malee scummy and solely depends on Macro’s claim switch as the sole reason to oppose his lynch. In #791 he says, “I want my voice to reflect my opinions”. If that’s the case then it’s pretty clear in his opinion I’m not scum because he hasn’t said a word about me, but now that you’ve put me in the danger zone and he’s got an excuse from hiplop he lays down a L-1 vote.
1. I don't disagree with anything in that paragraph on survivalism. I don't think Macro's way of doing it - non-VT and then VT - looks like survivalism.
2. It's a big overstatement to infer from his posting that he thinks you're not scum. I agree that he's said nothing to suggest he thinks you
are
scum. While I suspect I know the answer, I'd still like to hear it:
@SA: why the DDD vote?
I don't think DDD should be claiming right now. There's noone ready to hammer AFAIC, and there's no great time pressure.
Also, who else other than me is possibly going to be lynched today? I would really like to wagon DCL, but I don't see that happening. I could try harder, but I thought what I posted before was good and no one thought much of it at all. I just want Debonair to claim so that I can know whether I still want to lynch him or not. Is there something you plan on doing in the meantime?
actually the lynch that I would most prefer is alice. your and ddd's lynch are both very meh, I am okay with them but not overly excited about it. Your lynch has more benefits since if you were alive tomorrow I feel like we would repeat the same day of 'did theo commit the amished tell' and 'was macros claim survivalistic placating'. Plus I want to see how ddd plays without you to focus on.
...my head says macro is scum, my gut says he is town...dang it I'm going with my gut on this, I'm getting cold feet about lynching macro, this post doesn't feel like scum:
I've read zero of this thread aside from this page, so I'm just curious: why is it Macrophage or DDD?
Macro replaced a slot widely regarded as scummy, including by me. At L-1 (pretty sure), he claimed "non-VT", and when pressured further claimed VT - opinions vary on whether this sequence is scummy, townish or null. He wasn't lynched. In my opinion, he has been consistently townish, but many disagree. I also am coming to the conclusion that there just hasn't been a concerted push anywhere else today that I can see as coming from scum, and I really doubt the scumteam would just let Macro die this easily.
DDD is a decent lynch. I'm not sure that anyone thinks he's hugely scummy - Rhinox comes closest, but hasn't said much about anything of late, and I suspect doesn't have any confidence in anything right now. On the other hand, there's no reason I can see to think he's town. Personally, I think he's mildly scummy and I'm very much enthused by the way his wagon is packed with townie goodness.
Overall, there is a lack of strong scumreads in the game, except for those on Macro (which are probably wrong).
There's also some rather suspicious read-changes on me (Macro had me as scum when he came in, switched me to town when he was at L-1 and claimed, then put me back at scummy once D2 started, all of this effectively following a bell curve of when he was under suspicion), along with DDD pushing the amished tell.
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;
coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
Also keep an eye for setup review requests.
In post 860, DCLXVI wrote:...my head says macro is scum, my gut says he is town...dang it I'm going with my gut on this, I'm getting cold feet about lynching macro, this post doesn't feel like scum:
I actually agree that this post of Macro doesn't feel like coming from scum, but i can't say the same about your switch to DDD. You casually mentioned him like twice today, said nothing bad on Day 1, so what prompted you to vote him now? Give your opinion at least.
Where are the reads you promised like two weeks ago? You never answered my question on your case about Macro. While i disagreed with some of your points on day 1, i liked you general activity and logical thoughts, but today you are a shadow of yourself. I waited since you were V/LA, but after your return you are active all over the forum but not here. I do want to hear your thoughts and answers.
In post 865, kortul wrote:Where are the reads you promised like two weeks ago? You never answered my question on your case about Macro. While i disagreed with some of your points on day 1, i liked you general activity and logical thoughts, but today you are a shadow of yourself. I waited since you were V/LA, but after your return you are active all over the forum but not here. I do want to hear your thoughts and answers.
honestly I have been putting off posting over here because I don't have much of an idea as to what reads I have. I thought replacing and coming up with reads would be easier because of the abundance of information but all the stuff that I came up with yesterday was dead wrong, and I'm really not sure about who is what right now.
I did do a re-read of the thread about a week ago last weekend, honestly I wasn't sure about my reads on anyone, and while I want to post reads, I'm not going to post them if I don't believe them as that isn't going to help anything. But here is where I'm at right now.
The people I'm leaning town on are rhinox, fishy and macro
Scum, DDD most of the people on his wagon are town I think so I am sheeping them by being on it. not sure about 4nxi3ty either but I can't back that up. Otherwise I have no idea about anyone's alignment despite having read through the thread twice now. Which takes forever with how long it is.
as to some of the questions:
In post 845, Voidedmafia wrote:Speaking of the VCA, DCL, are you going to go back to it?
Not sure, it didn't turn out so well, I don't think I will till we have a scum flip
In post 862, Fishythefish wrote:
Macro replaced a slot widely regarded as scummy, including by me. At L-1 (pretty sure), he claimed "non-VT", and when pressured further claimed VT - opinions vary on whether this sequence is scummy, townish or null. He wasn't lynched. In my opinion, he has been consistently townish, but many disagree. I also am coming to the conclusion that there just hasn't been a concerted push anywhere else today that I can see as coming from scum, and I really doubt the scumteam would just let Macro die this easily.
So, you think Macro is town.
Fishythefish wrote:DDD is a decent lynch. I'm not sure that anyone thinks he's hugely scummy - Rhinox comes closest, but hasn't said much about anything of late, and I suspect doesn't have any confidence in anything right now. On the other hand, there's no reason I can see to think he's town. Personally, I think he's mildly scummy and I'm very much enthused by the way his wagon is packed with townie goodness.
There's also some rather suspicious read-changes on me (Macro had me as scum when he came in, switched me to town when he was at L-1 and claimed, then put me back at scummy once D2 started, all of this effectively following a bell curve of when he was under suspicion), along with DDD pushing the amished tell.
Why is this scummy for you? What does Macrophage-scum get off of buddying Voidedmafia-town?
And so, hah, I just see that my replaced slot had the hammer vote on either Macrophage or DDD earlier. Yet no one seems to have been pushing for action, or for Alice to remove her lone single vote off of Sleepless Assassin. That's....well, that's just downright bizarre.
I guess, specifically, given that Kortul just quoted DCL's post and said, "Why'd you do this?", why do you love Kortul instead of just quoting DCL's post and saying, "This is scummy"?
I've been trying to get a wagon on DCL for a little while now, so when I saw kortul's vote, I was like:
Before that, everyone was ignoring me about DCL, so Debonair is still looking like the likely lynch today and I would still like him to claim, but if people think they want another wagon, then he shouldn't.
I think I'll go through Funky and DCL's ISOs and post what I think. I ask that people please say what they think of my thoughts, especially if you disagree.
Funky:
Scummy:
This post seems a little too careful, a bit too much focus on having a justified vote and answer.
His flake seems to fit in with his saying he doesn't like being scum.
Not Sure:
There's something that makes me unsure here. He says he thinks vincent is vanilla town and I'm not sure that's something scum would say. I don't really like the rest of the post though. Especially the comments on the Malee wagon, which sound a lot like scum distancing from it without doing anything to stop it.
DCL
Scummy:
On Day 1, I thought DCL's replacing in and looking away from my wagon was townish, but funky didn't join my wagon either, and I've said that I think this could be because there were already scum (most likely 2) on my wagon.
536 is an example of DCL commenting on how he would've thought a Funky lynch justified if he hadn't replaced him. I don't get why he says this more than once, and the only thing I think was that scummy about funky was his distancing from my wagon, which I don't remember being a prominent point. So, it just seems weird to me, and I think it's scummy.
I don't really know how to say what I think of DCL Day 2 better than I did before, so I'll spoiler it here.
Spoiler: My post on DCL Day 2
Since the beginning of the day, it's seemed a lot like he wants to suspect me, but has been too hesitant to get on my wagon. He hasn't really mentioned anyone else as possible scum, which I don't really know how to explain, but I think town would consider other people as scum while making up their mind about one person. The thing that has made me think DCL scummy is his vote on me in 748.
First-> The reasons he presents are interesting. As expected, there is the voided read change. The second point is hard for me to figure out. Possibly scum trying look convinced that I'm scum? It's really unnatural considering the reasons for his change in opinion of me from 746, which I'll get to now.
There's the *not liking me calling him town*. Firstly, this is exaggerated because I just said something he said was townish. I can't see myself having any problem with someone saying that to me. Secondly, he claims that his response was not actually townish or scummy. I think this strongly indicates scum, because it's trying too hard to justify his reason for voting me, but also because if I'm town, and someone says something I said was town, I would naturally believe that what I said was indicative of town. I could see scum thinking that they didn't do anything townish in a post though. Thirdly, if he believes that I had him as a townread, how does he think he knows my reasoning for calling him town? which I didn't even do! And he's not even asking why I found it townish, which I would expect before going on about how my reasoning is terrible.
The fourth point is really bad and I can easily see scum putting it there just to justify their vote better.
So, back to what I was saying earlier. I don't see how these two poorly thought out additional reasons can lead him to go from making his mind up about me to being convinced I'm scum, especially considering his cautiousness by not voting me. It doesn't make any sense from town, but it does fit together for DCL-scum being concerned about jumping on my wagon and wanting to have sufficient unique reasoning to support it. Even the vote post itself leads me to believe this.
As I'm writing this, I'm becoming more convinced and I may change my vote to see where it goes. I don't know how clearly I've expressed my thoughts though, so please ask if you want me to explain something.
There are things that I'm not sure about though:
I was beginning to get a fairly strong townread on DCL during day 1 and I particularly liked how he didn't just jump on me like everyone else. Also, his responses to my questions have been fairly townish. 730 and 755 are no different from what I'd expect from town. And, I think he's been very pro-town.
Actually another thing that's scummy. He's been using the fact that he sucked day 1 by pushing a lynch of LS as a reason that makes it less believable that I consider him town. I do not really see town thinking like this, whereas scum perhaps worried about being considered so because of it could think that way. But yeah, I don't really see town thinking "Oh crap! I mislynched someone. People will probably see me as scum now".
The Lastsurvivor case in 570 seems like more effort than what scum would put in. I can see scum doing this, but it seems more likely to come from town.
The thing I'm most undure about is DCL's recent calling me town. Part of me wants to call DCL town for it, but I like my reasons for thinking him scum, and am not sure whether it should affect my read.
Anyone's thoughts on this would be much appreciated.
Again, the read-changes are scummy because of how convenient the shifts are. I don't know what exactly he was trying to get out of that (still really don't), but just doing that anyways, regardless of who it was with, imo was going to be pretty suspect.
Also, he likes it because he made a case against DCL and has him as the primary lynch. I personally don't see a DCL lynch happening today, but eh...
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;
coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
Also keep an eye for setup review requests.
Planning on getting caught up for real tomorrow, but I still don't like DCL for scum. Like, I'd switch my vote to macro before DCL if DDD isn't going to be lynched.
