Mini 1333: Terror in the Parlour (Game Over)

[Nikanor]

Vote: gorckat.

For not typing anything with his random vote. Very slight scumtell.

[Nikanor]

Zero times, but you have to start somewhere.

Why do you think that was worthy of a vote? Do you think that placing an OMGUS vote will earn you the ire of some of the other players?

[Nikanor]

Unvote.

Oso is giving me THE VIBES, but I don't really want to put a vote down yet.

split, why the random vote? We're not in RVS any more.

[Nikanor]

Now that we're out of the RVS, I want to explore my options before I commit to a wagon. I don't want to appear wishy-washy by changing my vote around a bunch of times, because then my vote loses its pressure value.

[Nikanor]

a) Why do you think he's angry?
b) Actual content, please?

[Nikanor]

Unless you're saying that implosion is insane; in that case I must agree with you wholeheartedly.

[Nikanor]

VOTE: ConfidAnon
Didn't want you to feel left out without a vote on you.

Awwwwwwww. :3

Also, UNVOTE: robbnva
VOTE: implosion

What's with the WMPE vote on page 1?

Have you read page 2?

[Nikanor]

why would you want to explore your options before joining a wagon? You don't join wagons unless you think somebody has done something scummy or you think they are scum. So if you thought that someone is scummy, why the need to explore your options?

Also, if you are changing your votes for valid reasons, that's not wishy washy. Actually being wishy washy makes you appear wishy washy, so if you have valid reasons for your vote changes, why do you care what people think of you?

a) I find multiple things scummy at the moment. Between my scum reads on Oso and split and the stuff with WMPE, I want a leader to emerge before I commit my vote. I want to see more content.

b) Yes, I would have valid reasons for my votes, but shifting my vote around would make me *feel* wishy-washy, and then I would *be* wishy-washy by virtue of feeling that way. And then I grow complacent and we end up mislynching d1. And don't tell me 'this doesn't happen' when you're still using sheeping and buddying as scumtells.

His reasoning for avoiding an Oso vote feels very weak, especially since it's not exactly committing to a wagon if there isn't really a wagon present in the first place. Furthermore, he asked Robbnva for content and yet he himself has provided very little. He has barely commented on the events going on in the game and a significant portion of his posts have just been asking others questions. The strongest opinion he's offered are "vibes" about Oso and yet he didn't even vote Oso then.

I'm generating content by asking questions.
I think some people are finding me scummy because we have different definitions of the phrase, "wishy-washy." What wishy-washy means to me is voting a player without the intention of lynching that player. Vote-hopping is a natural extension of this, and is what most people seem to think the definition of wishy-washy is. At this time, I do not think that Oso is a good lynch, so to vote him would, to me, be wishy-washy.

Going to post some reads in a separate post.

[Nikanor]

Starting to think that Robbnva is just bad town (implosion beat me to saying this though. Fucking implosion). Same with WMPE.
Getting a scum read on ConfidAnon, though. It really looks like he's going after the easy target with his attacks on Robbnva for Robb's attacks on lurkers.
triangle's probtown.
Not sure what to think of vijay, other than that he's annoying, but I'm sure that time will reveal his alignment.
implosion: I agree with what you have to say about Shotty, but I think that these things can come from Lazytown pretty easily.
My gut read on Oso isn't going away, but it's not getting any stronger, either. This probably has something to do with Oso not posting but what the hell do I know.

tl;dr:
Scum: ConfidAnon, Oso, (vijay?)
Town: implosion, triangle, Robbnva, WMPE

[Nikanor]

commercial break from the caps game, just jotting some thoughts down.


i'm on the fence about nik being scum, but I feel pretty confident that if he flips scum, his most likely buddy would be oso.

Nik says oso gives him the "vibes" but doesn't want to vote him, and than later when Worst votes Nik, Oso comes and attacks Worst.

so we have a faint fos by Nik with no real reason behind it, and than we have an attack on worst, which could possibly be a veiled attempt at defending nik. Nik's wagon was starting to grow, and all of sudden attention turned onto Worst.

I'm not ready to change my vote yet, especially since it's so early on in the game, but I could probably get behind a nik wagon.

Many people attacked WMPE after WMPE attacked me. Picking Oso out of that crowd is more than a bit tunnel visioned.

i'm on the fence about nik being scum, but I feel pretty confident that if he flips scum, his most likely buddy would be oso.

I doubt that Nikanor would be that obvious in a distancing attempt.

WIFOM SO SCUMMY !vore implosion

[Nikanor]

i'm on the fence about nik being scum, but I feel pretty confident that if he flips scum, his most likely buddy would be oso.

I doubt that Nikanor would be that obvious in a distancing attempt.

I have learned to never underestimate anyone, plus that wasn't very obvious. That kind of distancing is actually quite common.

and no Nik, go back and check your facts again, Oso makes the first REAL attack on WMP. I don't consider Implosion's reasonless vote on WMP an actual attack.

a) You mean to say overestimate.
b) You've played what, six games on ms.net? Don't talk about what is common and what isn't until you have some real experience brah.
c) Oh, so because YOU don't consider something an attack means that it isn't an attack at all. Do you really not see a problem with this line of reasoning?

[Nikanor]

Why zor?

[Nikanor]

3. yes, because I don't consider it an attack, to me it isn't an attack. Attach"An aggressive and violent action against a person or place" - if you look at Imp's vote and Oso's vote, which one looks agressive? hands down Oso's vote was agressive and his reasoning was weak.

So bad.

[Nikanor]

My most recent game that wasn't lost in the crash, town
As you can see, I played like an asshat in that game, and even though I was able to nail scum on page seven of a large theme (i mean it's reck, who is like the easiest person on the site to read if your name isn't dramonic, but still), and three of four scum on day two, it didn't help me a damned bit because nobody listened to me. So I've been trying to change my playstyle to something more agreeable. I wish that IGW2 wasn't lost in the crash, as I played this way as town in that game, but oh well.
tl;dr: Meta's not going to be of much use, because there are no records of me playing this way as either town or scum.

Question: Do people want me to play like I did in Encore Mafia (linked above) or Bawston Brawl (for Oso)? Because I can totally do that if you all promise to actually pay attention to my reads.

Broken link fixed ­— callforjudgement

[Nikanor]

okay fuck it i'm doing this
just going to put my balls
RIGHT HERE
on the table
please make sure you do not place any silverware on them

Vote: Code_X.

^fuck that guy.
if you want to know why, read this, focusing on the bolded:

Gorckat gets town points for me for the first non random vote in Post 11. I tend to view the RVS stage as a complete waste of time and those who continue to pursue it tend to just piss me off or prove to be unhelpful. Robb also votes Implosion. Interesting that Vijay ignores the first two votes - or more so doesn't say anything about Gorck's second vote. Something along the lines of "why?" would have sufficed but nothing. Triangle in 15 also ignores the now 3 votes on Implosion. Defending Implosion perhaps.

16 also ignores the 3 votes on Implosion. Why? Instead Nikanor votes Gorckat for a pathetic reason.

For not typing anything with his random vote. Very slight scumtell.

Why not just say you thought the vote on Implosion was scummy? Nikanor's next post is a complete contradiction of 16. Then from 3 votes on Implosion we end up with 4 votes on Nikanor. Namely Gorckat, V2V and WMPE.

[Nikanor]

confid is still scum, and oso too probably but if i'm wavering on anybody, it's him.

implosion still town.
triangle still town, but you won't catch me reading her posts.
robb, wmpe still town.
shotty and split still doing nothing.
missing a couple of people but who cares about them.

[Nikanor]

btw i was channeling hoopla as inspiration for my previous playstyle this game if anyone is curious.
half the people in this goddamned game probably don't even know who hoopla is though.

@MODDY: PLEASE FIX MY URL TAG ABOVE, THANKS.

this game could do with less walls btw.

[Nikanor]

His last 4 posts strike me as the realization hitting him that his 'meta shift' isn't working. If he is is legitimately trying to change his meta then I'll apologize after the game but I'm not buying it. Mainly because of these (all quotes below are abridged, I just took the part(s) that I think are relevant to the point I'm making):

yeah, it's not working, and on top of that it doesn't feel natural at all. i've been trying to force myself to be moderate so that the entire fucking site doesn't think of me as "that guy who trolls games," but if it's just going to get me lynched then what the hell is the point.

my post 100 was an attack on robb's argument because the argument was flawed. that's it. it wasn't even an attack on robb, much less a defense of oso.
the rest of the post is speculation drawn on the assumption that i'm defending someone i find scummy, which is lol.
like i'm not that stupid. if i were scum i wouldn't forget who i'm supposed to be suspecting, and the only person on this site who actually buddies is llamafluff.

[Nikanor]

It was unreasonable to random vote in my opinion when there had been a substantial amount of votes/discussion prior to this. I don't see the need to include whole quotes everywhere otherwise the wall would have been a ridicolous size. As it goes your vote a little later on Nikanor seemed much more genuine.

@ Nikanor Post 147 - Your vote on Gorckat was pathetic reasoning in my opinion whilst reading through. Since when has not commenting on a vote been a scum-tell? You said it yourself a few posts later that it had never caught any scum. Why not just vote him based on the Implosion vote.

It's noticeable though you've changed play-style recently and what worries me is why you started off the game so meek and timid. Almost avoiding confrontation.

Vijay the self vote? Seriously. Come on.

MORE VOTES PLEASE.
btw if anyone is wondering, code_x is an alt. evidence is here under the player list.

[Nikanor]

mostly voting confid for this:

Also, Robbnva's 75 bothers me. Zoraster's business makes the lurking claim dubious

he's acting as if robb should already know that zor's trying to put together five games, and he's using that to attack robb. incredibly scummy. bullets go here plz.

oso's scummy for gut, his 180 on me and his case on me.

[Nikanor]

i'll put something together on code after dinner bbl

[Nikanor]

btw it's shit like this that makes robb town. giving me a chance to convince him isn't something that scum does.

[Nikanor]

Gorckat gets town points for me for the first non random vote in Post 11. I tend to view the RVS stage as a complete waste of time and those who continue to pursue it tend to just piss me off or prove to be unhelpful. Robb also votes Implosion. Interesting that Vijay ignores the first two votes - or more so doesn't say anything about Gorck's second vote. Something along the lines of "why?" would have sufficed but nothing.

Triangle in 15 also ignores the now 3 votes on Implosion. Defending Implosion perhaps. 16 also ignores the 3 votes on Implosion. Why? Instead Nikanor votes Gorckat for a pathetic reason.

a lot of this is making something out of nothing. as he does have a couple of games under his belt, he should know that not much can be expected from the first page of play. the bolded in particular is ridiculous. accusing triangle and i of defending implosion for not mentioning the three votes on him just has newbscum written all over it.

Why not just say you thought the vote on Implosion was scummy? Nikanor's next post is a complete contradiction of 16. Then from 3 votes on Implosion we end up with 4 votes on Nikanor. Namely Gorckat, V2V and WMPE.

then this. he attacks me for giving MORE information than needed. also, he calls these two posts contradictory...
----------------------------------------

For not typing anything with his random vote. Very slight scumtell.

----------------------------------------

Zero times, but you have to start somewhere.

Why do you think that was worthy of a vote? Do you think that placing an OMGUS vote will earn you the ire of some of the other players?

----------------------------------------
...which is a flaming pile of bullshit for obvious reasons.

then we get him saying a whole bunch of iioa. he feels the need to comment on everything that happens; a scummy trait. he also repeats a lot of the stuff that other people have said, meaning he's more concerned about posting content than anything else, but we already knew that because of the iioa, didn't we?

Robb calls out the lurkers which is fair enough, it's definitely anti-town.

It's also a practice used by scum to fish out candidates to lynch

,

although in this case it seems Rob is just actively picking on everyone which I tend to view more pro-town

. Interesting mind that Zoraster posts a few minutes after Robb's post - so he obviously was keeping up just watching on. ConfidAnon sticks up for the lurkers.

i like this post. code can't seem to decide whether to call robb scummy or town (now in technicolor for your viewing pleasure).

Split and Triangle both vote Nikanor.
Imp votes Shotty. Triangle then defends Shotty. Hmm ..

HMMM INDEED. saying HMMMM as he has done is scummy because it means that code just wants to put that out there for other people to do with as they will; he doesn't want to risk taking a position on this issue and going against the majority, despite it being obvious what he's getting at.


in conclusion you can vote for code_x now.

[Nikanor]

First off. I don't see what your beef is with me finding things scummy on Page 1? I'm fully aware no-one is going to give themselves away but at the same time it's usually a page worth taking note of as some players look to move the game forward from the random voting stage and some players completely ignore. You obviously disagree with my opinion. So be it. I find early votes can be worth noting - even so called random ones. At any rate I don't think I was making a big song and dance about it just purely writing down my thoughts as I went. I'm surprised you've got so worked up about it.

it's not scummy to find things scummy on page one. it's possible to catch scum on page one if you know what you're doing. however, calling people scummy for ignoring a three-vote rvs bandwagon, ESPECIALLY when you're using it as an excuse to vote for someone, is scummy.

Why not say it initially. You said it a scum-tell - I didn't think it was. You then said you'd caught no scum through that line of inquiry. Hence although perhaps not contradictory, it's not a great pile of bullshit as you make out. The bullshit is the fact that voting people without comment is supposedly a scum-tell. Which it isn't.

Disagree completely. I hadn't kept up with the thread, which I apologise for but to then not read/comment on content seems bizarre. If something jumps out when I'm reading back then I feel it's more unhelpful to hold back my thoughts instead of posting though.

to label what you wrote as 'thoughts' is insulting to thoughts. you wrote down what was happening, made a few non-committal comments here and there (except for when there was a consensus on how a post should be interpreted, of course, such as my post 40, which you did not hesitate to call scummy and vote me for.)

Think I've made it clear I view Robb as more pro-town than not. I like the way your trying to discredit me further by using the colouring smart move. I don't see what in that statement is amiss. Lurking is anti-town. Calling out lurkers is used by scum as an easy tactic but Robb wasn't just doing this he was also attacking others. Your trying to make a case out of nothing again.

so why did you say that calling out lurkers is usually scummy? if what you say is true, you put a non-sequitur into your paragraph for no reason, which is absurd. no, i think that you simply didn't know whether you should call robb scummy or not and waffled yourself into fence-sitting.

Again your picking at holes that aren't there. Saying "hmmm" is scummy that's a new one on me. Again I'm just writing down my thoughts, perhaps too glibly. You though seem to just be pulling a case out of thin air to save your own skin.

saying "hmmmm" is very scummy. i have a history for calling people out on this kind of thing and being correct (see my call on rhinox saying 'suspicous' here)

It's definitely like two different players. Early Nik seems scummy, current Nik is a lot less scummy.

remember that my play earlier today was not my normal playstyle, so while my motivation wasn't scummy, i was still acting abnormally.

[Nikanor]

Implosion: A VERY distant third. He has enough content to make a read on but just as I get ready to put him on my likely-town list, he comes out with this in his Post 172: "I feel like nikanor would flip town, but i wouldn't be surprised if he flipped scum."

And this line is distantly scummy because... i'm not allowed to think that nikanor will flip town?

i'm tellin' ya, oso is scum.

[Nikanor]

@Nikanor - how can you compare different players in different games as a case? Stretching somewhat. It's like you've gone back in time and plucked someone saying "hmm" and turning up scum. I could search "hmm" on the site and run analysis on it if you want. It's not scummy - it's purely just me typing as I go.

Regards the lurkers. It is scummy to call out lurkers if your doing nothing else. Doesn't mean Robb wouldn't do likewise as scum but because he's posting plenty of other content and looks to be progressing the town, it feels more of a pro-town move to encourage everyone to contribute.

a) It's scummy in the context you've used it. Just like how ellipses are scummy if used in a certain context.
b) So why did you say that calling out lurkers is scummy? Why didn't you simply say that Robb is acting pro-town by calling out everyone?

1. What bothered me was that you were quick to assume Oso was rolefishing, something that's not, in my opinion, particularly clear or "screaming" evidence, especially in light of your remarkably strong scum read on Robbnva. If you had had a "normal" scum read on Robbnva, for lack of a better word, your sudden switch might not have stuck out so much to me, but you were literally certain he was scum and then abruptly did a 180.

:goodposting:
I agree with this.

I have a hard time reading Code X, maybe it's because he only has a few posts. A lot of what is said between him and Nik feels like nit-picking, I'm just not sure what to make of that interaction. The only thing that I really notice seems to be that Nik is picking the little things like saying 'hmmm' may be a lack of genuine scum-hunting or evidence towards Code X.

the fuck is this
you've played with me before so you have no excuse for calling me scummy because i'm calling 'hmmm' scummy.

OH HEY SOMETHING I JUST NOTICED

Vote: Nikanor

Your barking completely up the wrong tree and your wishy-washy early style of cautious play and trying to avoid confontation has turned into an ultra-aggressive style completely the opposite in the hope of saving your own skin.

Notice that Code_X defends himself at the BEGINNING of the sentence, giving us insight into his priorities.
Also notice that he tells me that I am 'barking completely up the wrong tree,' a thing one would not say to a person one thinks is scum.

NOW can we get a lynchwagon on Code_X? We're halfway through the day and still have the leading wagon on a townie.

btw the fact that I haven't been put back up to L-1 for a claim/hammer is because there are already two scum on my wagon and the third is lurking with a vote parked on a townie.
not specifically talking about oso/code/confid scumteam here, either.
if you guys do decide to lynch me today, it's very important for you to remember that two of WorstMafiaPlayerEver, triangle123, splitfarvle, Oso and Code_X are scum. ideally you'll lynch my scumspects too, but remembering that two of the people on my wagon right now is the bare minimum.

[Nikanor]

Convinced? You've hardly said anything all game. Failed to contribute one little bit and your convinced on Nikanor's case on me.

How does contribution have anything to do with reading and being convinced?

[Nikanor]

My shotgun gut analysis says imp, zor and Nik for the trifecta.

Yup, all three scum on the same bandwagon OP.
What do you think of Code_X, leaving aside the fact that imp, zor and I are all voting for him?

[Nikanor]

your one link helps your cause, I only am willing to go with it because there was this one game where I saw scum do something that I had seen scum do once before and I went with it even after being ridiculed by everyone, and turns out I was right.

so how strongly do you feel in this tell?

Very strongly. I've used it a few times (like four or so?) and never been wrong.

If we want a claim out of Nik or a lynch we need to actually put him at L-1 and someone willing to take the hammer or I can guarantee you won't hear another peep out of him. Not this close to deadline. He will turtle.

Don't want to sound like Chicken Little and say the sky is falling but if he claims and it causes his wagon to dissipate, we have very little time to look at anyone else. The second place, Implosion, has about zero chance of going anywhere at least from where I sit. I'll go on record right now that I have no interest in seeing him lynched today. I'll go ahead and add Robb, vijay2, triangle and perhaps even split and gorc to that list as well.

Tell me Oso, what do you think of Code's activity recently? He last posted two days ago when he said that he was going to read some isos that day.
Also of note is the content that he produced two days ago. It's him defending himself against zoraster and I. His last post before that was another two days prior.
I'm starting to notice a pattern of active lurking here.

[Nikanor]

@ nik - can you PLEASE put your case in a quick bullet point setup for me?

Read Code_X's catch-up post that he puts in a spoiler (link). Keep in mind how much he actually says about me and that his is the fourth vote on my wagon.

another thing that bothers me is post 104, WMPE says he would vote Nik, Vijay, and Zor and he asks "why zor?" and yet doesn't ask about anyone else. WMPE answers this question and nik doesn't even respond or react to his answer, he just comes guns blazing on Code who had just put him at L-2...

and I will repeat it again, his entire iso he calls OSO scum or scummy yet doesn;t make anything close to the same time of effort to make a case for for him... why is that?

a) If I were to ask "why" re: me, I'd just get the same argument ("post 40 so scummy!") rehashed to me. And I can understand why a player with WMPE's experience would find vijay scummy. And although I knew the answer to my question was going to be "lurking," I was curious as to whether or not WMPE would actually say that that was his reason for suspecting zoraster, what with all the drama going on about whether or not calling out lurkers is scummy.
In the end, it solidified my town read on WMPE, but since I'd already stated that I found him town, there was no reason to say anything.

b) Just about every post of Oso's sets my gut ringing, but I don't have anything concrete to point out from his posting. My hope is that, by repeating it often enough, I'll brainwash you all into thinking that Oso is scum. So far it does not appear to be working.

[Nikanor]

What I see when I ISO Code_X and you Nik [that is one nifty feature by the way, there was just the single ISO when last I played, I'm pretty sure] is you playing both sides of the street in regards to Code_X. Specifically, this interchange:

{*** Quote from Code_X snipped ***}
MORE VOTES PLEASE.
btw if anyone is wondering, code_x is an alt. evidence is here under the player list.

That link the "here" goes to, I assume (correct me if I'm wrong here) it was to somehow to cast Code_X's defense of the spoiler tag in Post 136 in a bad light. Since he pleaded newness and he really wasn't new to mafia, he just may not have played in a while.

Yet here:

{*** Snippity ***}

a lot of this is making something out of nothing. as he does have a couple of games under his belt, he should know that not much can be expected from the first page of play. the bolded in particular is ridiculous. accusing triangle and i of defending implosion for not mentioning the three votes on him

just has newbscum written all over it.

{*** More snippity ***}

Which is it? Is he a veteran player who is trying to pull the wool over our eyes or is he a newb? It is hard to tell since you seem to have tried to make him look like he was hiding experience on on hand but calling him newbscum on the other.

To answer your question though, I do have some problems with the way Code_X is playing but nothing enough to hang a vote on. Take into account the above in what I think you did there and anything you say or point out about Code_X is pretty much tainted in my eyes.

Yeah, he's an alt, but he still reeks of newbscum. Are the two not compatible or something?

[Nikanor]

A person plays 13 mini normals. Chances are good that he's only going to play scum three times. Three. That's no experience at all. However, he would still have ten town games under his belt, which is a considerable number, and at least enough to stop pardoning him for saying stupid things as town. That is what I am getting at.

[Nikanor]

I'm a townie.
I've said all there is to say. Lynch Code tomorrow.
I'd say more but I lost all hope for winning once I realized that this game is probably going to rest on Robb's shoulders, so I can't really be bothered to put in the effort. It's not like any of you would actually read it anyway.

[Nikanor]

really wmpe
really.

[Nikanor]

^trying to secure the Nikanor mislynch

[Nikanor]

Okay if you guys are going to lynch me, do it now please. Really don't want to have to deal with this bullshit tomorrow.

[Nikanor]

Okay if you guys are going to lynch me, do it now please. Really don't want to have to deal with this bullshit tomorrow.

Winning attitude.

Yeah well it isn't fun when you try to change your meta to try to avoid this shit and then it ends up happening anyway. Makes me kind of upset, actually.
And if the vijay lynch goes through, who do you think would be next on the chopping block, regardless of what vijay flips?
No, I'd rather not have to deal with you idiots bandwagonning me for another two weeks. If you're going to lynch me, do it now.

[Nikanor]

Going to read after getting home from work tonight.

[Nikanor]

What a troll.
You're such a troll, zoraster.

I'll take this as kind hearted needling?

When I said that I was convinced that you were scum with YYR because cfj asked for last guesses five minutes after Tierce's vote on Nero. >_>

Well-played, though. Congrats.