Mini 1316 - Last Will Mafia IV (Over)


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Post Post #1025 (ISO) » Thu May 10, 2012 6:42 am

Post by DCLXVI »

vote:kortul


L-2 now, should claim

when kortul unvoted alice and voted LS, LS was at L-2, macro was at L-3. A vote on macro would have put them at even. I do not see why kortul would have chosen to vote someone who had been a townread nearly the entire game over a slot he had considered scummy.

The difference between him and fishy really is that fishy flipped his read on macro to town.
Not a safe move for scum to do if macro got lynched.


kortul played the situation safe by still calling macro scum in the event that macro actually still got lynched.
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Post Post #1026 (ISO) » Thu May 10, 2012 6:53 am

Post by LlamaFluff »

Vote Count

kortul (5) - rhinox, fishythefish, DCLXVI
fishythefish (3) - Magua, hiplop
Sleepless Assassin (1) - Debonair Danny DiPietro

Not Voting (3) - Sleeplss Assassin, Voidedmafia, kortul

With 13 votes in play it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is May 28th, 7AM PST

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Post Post #1027 (ISO) » Thu May 10, 2012 8:42 am

Post by Voidedmafia »

Oh, so basically like DV Mafia, then.


PoE to me dictates that Kortul or SA, or Mag would be where I'd place my votes today, though they're not all bad choices.

Rhinox: Just because you hammered scum doesn't mean that can't be suspect.
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Post Post #1028 (ISO) » Thu May 10, 2012 8:45 am

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

In post 1025, DCLXVI wrote:vote:kortul

L-2 now, should claim


I'm curious why he should claim now with no one threatening a hammer.
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Post Post #1029 (ISO) » Thu May 10, 2012 8:53 am

Post by Voidedmafia »

In post 1028, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:
In post 1025, DCLXVI wrote:vote:kortul

L-2 now, should claim


I'm curious why he should claim now with no one threatening a hammer.

Agreed. Mag and I are the only people who can hammer when he's at L-2 (Rhinox and Fishy are alread on him), and while I can't speak for him, I'm not entirely sold on Kortul-scum. It sounds very much like he's anticipating one of us coming in to finish off Kortul or something, and I don't really like that sentiment.
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Post Post #1030 (ISO) » Thu May 10, 2012 10:24 am

Post by DCLXVI »

In post 1028, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:I'm curious why he should claim now with no one threatening a hammer.


1. He is pretty much at l-1 since there are two people off the wagon who have two votes.
2. There are people off the wagon considering voting for him including voided

In post 1029, Voidedmafia wrote:Agreed. Mag and I are the only people who can hammer when he's at L-2 (Rhinox and Fishy are alread on him), and while I can't speak for him, I'm not entirely sold on Kortul-scum. It sounds very much like he's anticipating one of us coming in to finish off Kortul or something, and I don't really like that sentiment.


Yes, I am anticipating someone coming and hammering kortul. I think he is scum and should be lynched. That said, he still should be allowed to role-claim if he wants to on the odd chance he has something verifiable.
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Post Post #1031 (ISO) » Thu May 10, 2012 10:59 am

Post by kortul »

In post 1023, Fishythefish wrote:About LS - the problem isn't voting a townread to get a deadline lynch. The problem is voting a townread
over a scumread
at deadline when both are viable lynches - from absolutely everything you'd said in the game that point, I'd have expected you to vote Macro rather than LS at that point.
In post 1025, DCLXVI wrote:I do not see why kortul would have chosen to vote someone who had been a townread nearly the entire game over a slot he had considered scummy.
I explained it twice already, but will try to remember my thoughts and emotions at that time. And "the entire game" at that moment was equal "more than a half of day 1", without any flips, so all the reads were based on feelings, whether i agree or disagree with someone logic, and the activity.

1) At that moment i suspected Macro slot because of Malee/funky, but actually liked the game of Macro, except for a single opinion change on Voided.
2) I was impressed by Nacho, who came in and with a help of logic and careful questions revealed that LS lied about the reasons of his switch from Alice. Nacho become my strong town read, while LS moved to null - i didn't understand why he lied about vote switch, especially from Alice, who still was my main scumread.
3) Before i went to sleep i saw an answer from LS, that Macro claim didn't affect his read on Macro. In the morning i found out, that several posts and 2 hours later LS switched Macro to DDD, after Macro voted LS. I didn't understand the explanation at all, so came to conclusion that LS is simply trying to push DDD wagon, since Macro wagon was stuck, at the same time trying to appease Macro. My read on LS changed from null to leaning scum.
4) So when i made a choice,
all wagons
were on players who were leaning scum for me, just for different reasons. With less then a day before a deadline, i felt that Nacho has more understanding of what is going on, so decided to follow him, and voted LS. I checked several times to see whether Nacho changed his mind and switched, but there were nothing from him.

That's all i have to say on this, and if you still think that my intentions were scummy, so be it, i would rather devote my time for scumhunting, not explaining the same thing over and over.

In post 1024, Rhinox wrote:Where was my vote at deadline? oh right. hammering macro. Don't even try to compare my vote on DCLX with your vote on LS, because its not the same at all.
I agree that it's not the same. You put your town read to L-1. I put my scum read to L-1. You made a correct choice after that, but that doesn't amend your previous votes.

DCL, we are not in a newbie game or near the deadline, if someone wants to hammer me, he will ask for a claim. Why are you so interested?
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Post Post #1032 (ISO) » Thu May 10, 2012 11:57 am

Post by Magua »

Not hammering kortul. Not interested in a claim from kortul at the moment, either.

I don't think kortul is scum, but even if kortul is scum, he's bussing scum, which I'm ok with. Much more interested in finding the non-bussing scum in the very small group of (fishy, DDD, SA), and I don't think it's DDD. So.

Fishythefish wrote:Do you still think that "Way too much equivocating, vacillating, way too little in terms of actual reads or trying to do shit." is a good meta-scumtell for me?


Yes.

Fishythefish wrote:If so, you should be able to justify that by pointing to a game where, as scum, my play could be described as that. If not, why do you think I'm scum other than PoE?


TBH, I can't be fucked to go through your previous games because after reading Last Will III and Trader Mafia I just don't care anymore. Your posts have been so far today a defense of yourself, you saying that kortul is a very strong townread, and then upon being pointed out that one of his votes was timed differently, being all over his lynch. It's so very meh.

You say that SA has been reasonably scumhunting. What reasonable scumhunting has he been doing D3?

@kortul:
Kindly be voting.
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Post Post #1033 (ISO) » Thu May 10, 2012 8:00 pm

Post by Fishythefish »

In post 1032, Magua wrote:Not hammering kortul. Not interested in a claim from kortul at the moment, either.

I don't think kortul is scum, but even if kortul is scum, he's bussing scum, which I'm ok with. Much more interested in finding the non-bussing scum in the very small group of (fishy, DDD, SA), and I don't think it's DDD. So.

Fishythefish wrote:Do you still think that "Way too much equivocating, vacillating, way too little in terms of actual reads or trying to do shit." is a good meta-scumtell for me?


Yes.

Fishythefish wrote:If so, you should be able to justify that by pointing to a game where, as scum, my play could be described as that. If not, why do you think I'm scum other than PoE?


TBH, I can't be fucked to go through your previous games because after reading Last Will III and Trader Mafia I just don't care anymore. Your posts have been so far today a defense of yourself, you saying that kortul is a very strong townread, and then upon being pointed out that one of his votes was timed differently, being all over his lynch. It's so very meh.

You say that SA has been reasonably scumhunting. What reasonable scumhunting has he been doing D3?

@kortul:
Kindly be voting.

OK, Magua doesn't give a fuck whether I'm scum.

1. I replied to his meta about Trader Mafia, which is totally wrong. Even if he can't be bothered to check out my other scum games (which he said he had), he should at least be able to say why he thinks that one is like here. He's got one point on me, which is that I've been changing my mind and having weak reads. This isn't a scumtell, and it absolutely isn't a scumtell for me.
2. On kortul. kortul is a "very strong townread"? Where? How on earth does Magua reach this conclusion? I had kortul as mildly unlikely to be a buddy, and one of the big reasons (his switch back to Macro) was based on something that was factually inaccurate.
3. The summary of my posts today. Seriously? Today, I've defended myself, sure. I've also posted analysis of every single player in the game. I don't think that analysis is at all bad. What more do you want from my posting?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Magua

This total garbage of a case on me, plus Alice's strong day 1 links to Macro, make me think Magua is scum.

---

On SA: that's fair, he's done bugger all today, and it would make sense that he'd want to keep his head down as scum.

@SA
: who's scum? Why haven't you been doing anything recently?
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Post Post #1034 (ISO) » Thu May 10, 2012 9:01 pm

Post by Sleepless Assassin »

Fish, I have no idea who is scum. I'm trying to set aside time to do my own read similar to yours. For some reason, rhinox is pinging my gut. No basis behind why, unfortunately. And when I look at the two top wagons, it's kort and you (fish). Two players who I've had town reads on for quite a while. When I look at my top two remaining livng suspects from yesterday, DDD claimed a believable town role and DCL was a counterwagon to macro, which isn't a 100% town tell, but it's enough to shake my confidence in that read. I'm extremely torn and need a massive look at things before I come to any conclusions. I know no one is going to care that my life is busy right now, but that's what's slowing my progress right now. If nothing else, I guess I have to settle on rhinox and DCL as guesses for scum right now, but I doubt I'm right at this point.
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Post Post #1035 (ISO) » Fri May 11, 2012 7:06 am

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

In post 1030, DCLXVI wrote:2. There are people off the wagon considering voting for him including voided


But if voided was planning on voting for him (and there’s no indication that he was; just that he was more likely to vote for him than Fishy) who not let Voided make that decision for himself?

In post 1030, DCLXVI wrote:Yes, I am anticipating someone coming and hammering kortul. I think he is scum and should be lynched. That said, he still should be allowed to role-claim if he wants to on the odd chance he has something verifiable.


So let me get this straight; you think TOWN are going to quickhammer a player you think is SCUM. And not only that but you want that scum to claim, to what, prevent that lynch?

There’s something rotten in the state of DCL.
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Post Post #1036 (ISO) » Fri May 11, 2012 8:27 am

Post by Voidedmafia »

DCL, please explain where at all I've indicated I would definitively lynch Kortul. I've stated that, if it comes down to it at the deadline, I'd lynch him over Fishy, but that does not and should not mean that I want him dead now.

At this point I'm more keen on a Mag lynch. His push on Fishy has lost any sense of reason or sensibility, especially after that last post.

Vote: Magua
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Post Post #1037 (ISO) » Fri May 11, 2012 2:58 pm

Post by hiplop »

mod, im in a big production :) so i'll have limited access until monday ! however i can still post before/after


catching up now
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Post Post #1038 (ISO) » Fri May 11, 2012 3:08 pm

Post by Magua »

In post 1033, Fishythefish wrote:OK, Magua doesn't give a fuck whether I'm scum.

1. I replied to his meta about Trader Mafia, which is totally wrong. Even if he can't be bothered to check out my other scum games (which he said he had), he should at least be able to say why he thinks that one is like here. He's got one point on me, which is that I've been changing my mind and having weak reads. This isn't a scumtell, and it absolutely isn't a scumtell for me.
2. On kortul. kortul is a "very strong townread"? Where? How on earth does Magua reach this conclusion? I had kortul as mildly unlikely to be a buddy, and one of the big reasons (his switch back to Macro) was based on something that was factually inaccurate.
3. The summary of my posts today. Seriously? Today, I've defended myself, sure. I've also posted analysis of every single player in the game. I don't think that analysis is at all bad. What more do you want from my posting?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Magua

This total garbage of a case on me, plus Alice's strong day 1 links to Macro, make me think Magua is scum.


I give quite a large number of fucks that you're scum. That's why, after all, I'm voting you.

You didn't say kortul was a townread -- that was me mixing up what you'd said about kortul and Macrophage and conflating the two because of your "kortul's not really done anything scummy" line in #1019.

What I want from you should be obvious: an actual stance. All of your "analysis" is either, "Well, X does seem kind of scummy, but they could just be bad town," or "Well, X does seem kind of townie, but they could just be smart scum." Pretty much literally, that is the entirety of your post #994.

End result of all of your analysis is to have no reads, get prodded by Rhinox by where your analysis was wrong, come out with #1019 which *still* reads as "Well, X could be <faction>, but could also be <other faction>", and then vote kortul because there's a wagon on kortul, now vote me.

Or, look at your response vs-a-vis SleeplessAssassin: You say in #1019, "SA's made a few decent cases on unfashionable targets. It feels like he's scumhunting - as scum, his choice of targets would be pretty odd. If it weren't for some fairly serious PoE, he'd be nowhere near a scumlist." I ask, "What scumhunting has SA done," and you're all like, "Well, none today."

It's all. So. Meh.
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Post Post #1039 (ISO) » Fri May 11, 2012 10:36 pm

Post by Fishythefish »

No stances or reads? Bollocks. It's pretty clear from my posting that DDD, DCL, and Voided are all very likely town, that you and kortul are scummy, and that SA and hiplop are possible but unlikely scum. Sure, there's nothing I've said that says "X is 100%, definitely scum" - I don't think scumhunting is that easy - but I'm drawing very clear lines between people. What is scummy about that? Do town always think there's one person who's ridiculously scummy? Why do scum gain from taking firm stances, but posting "Meh" analysis?

My response on SA: IMO, SA's done some good scumhunting on other days. You asked "what scumhunting has SA done today". I was all like "well, none today". What the hell else do you expect me to say?

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Post Post #1040 (ISO) » Fri May 11, 2012 10:39 pm

Post by Fishythefish »

I left Rhinox out of the above list of reads, because TBH I'm not sure what I've said about him recently. He's also a very firm townread, for the same reason he has been through the game - there's lots in his play that's very unlikely from Rhinoxscum.
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Post Post #1041 (ISO) » Fri May 11, 2012 10:56 pm

Post by Voidedmafia »

Feeling much better with my Magvote, now. Fishy has shown some definitive reads, and it really sounds like Mag is trying to exaggerate the wishy-washy point on Fishy just to try and get him lynched. Feels way too desperate to be any sort of definitive attack, and that exaggerating is just making him look scummier by the mention.
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Post Post #1042 (ISO) » Sat May 12, 2012 5:19 am

Post by Sleepless Assassin »

Fish, not sure. Maybe tomorrow, but no promises.
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Post Post #1043 (ISO) » Sat May 12, 2012 5:38 am

Post by kortul »

V\LA for weekend, yesterday forum was down, posting from kindle.
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Post Post #1044 (ISO) » Sat May 12, 2012 6:00 am

Post by hiplop »

VOTE: Magua

I don't think kortul is scum, and fishy doesnt seem to be dying (plus his latest posts have been pretty townie) Magua has been pretty snarky, which I think would come from scum here.
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Post Post #1045 (ISO) » Sat May 12, 2012 6:21 am

Post by Voidedmafia »

Snarkiness isn't an alignment tell (or shouldn't be)...
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Post Post #1046 (ISO) » Sun May 13, 2012 3:22 am

Post by Magua »

In post 1044, hiplop wrote:VOTE: Magua

I don't think kortul is scum, and fishy doesnt seem to be dying (plus his latest posts have been pretty townie) Magua has been pretty snarky, which I think would come from scum here.


I'm going to give you approximately five seconds to remember how I played in Brightest Day, and then see how you re-evaluate this statement.
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Post Post #1047 (ISO) » Sun May 13, 2012 3:29 am

Post by hiplop »

I don't remember you being in Brightest day (very high margin of error though), and regardless I was scum in that game :)
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Post Post #1048 (ISO) » Sun May 13, 2012 3:30 am

Post by hiplop »

snarkiness may not be the right word, I suppose. I mean there's a harshness in the way you're
speaking
typing, which seems like angry scum saying DON'T LYNCH ME.
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Post Post #1049 (ISO) » Sun May 13, 2012 3:32 am

Post by Magua »

Mr. Subliminal.

And you were scum. I wasn't. That being the key point.

Snarky I will happily cop to. Harshness? Show me anywhere where I've been harsh, or angry.

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