Fish, I start to worry about no lynch sooner than a lot of people. I've seen a lot of games where votes don't move very quickly, specifically the last game I played.
3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
Www.escapeintothemixradio.com/EMRchatroom.html come say hi
So I reviewed day one looking at some newer ideas I've been studying and I have to say the odds of me getting behind a Fishy lynch are slim to none without something super substantial popping up. Interestlingly in my review, both SA and Alice (Magua) tried to link Malee (Macro) to Fishy and LS respectively which doesn't help their arguments. I could be convinced of a Magua lynch under deadline but we're not even close to that point, so instead I'd like to see SA tossed in a lake of fire.
Sleepless Assassin wrote:Magua, did you have a specific question for me?
It's, oh, nine days or so into the Day, you have no vote, you have, as far as I can tell, only expressed suspicion of Rhino, you've got no update on your DCL read and haven't mentioned him at all today, etc, and most of your posts are "I need to reread" except they're from 6-8 days ago.
So, my question is, "Who is scum and why are you not voting them?"
And pre-emptively, don't say "I don't know who scum is."
Fair. Being busy isn't really a good excuse. Honestly, the best I can do right now is sheep which I tend to avoid doing.
Let me give a quick opinion on each player just so everyone knows where I'm at. I know it's not going to be any huge information, but here it is:
Fish- he seemed scummy in the very early stages of the game, but quickly made me think town soon after. Yesterday, his opinions almost mirrored mine exactly, but considering how wrong I was, I don't think that's a good thing. Basically I'm not as confident in yesterday's town read.
Void- I've seen small things pop out that I didn't like, but overall he's a town read.
Magua- I thought town for quite a while, but same as fish where I'm less sure of that today.
Kortul- same as fish and magua but to a lesser extent. I still think he is town.
DCL- I still want to say scum, but being such a strong counterwagon makes me question it just a little bit.
Hip- leaning town on him
DDD- town read because of his claim
Rhinox- as I said before, a recent gut scum read. Some of his posts just have a scum feel to them for some reason and his hammer vote kind of reads like someone who is hammering a buddy.
I feel lost in this game. If anyone wants to ask questions to help me get involved again, shoot. Magua, to answer why I'm not voting, it's mostly that I'm not confident in my reads at all and haven't found any time to look over the game enough to change that.
3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
Www.escapeintothemixradio.com/EMRchatroom.html come say hi
In post 1105, Fishythefish wrote:@Rhinox, DDD: what do you think of my argument with Magua? I'd value your opinion on whether he looks like scum in it.
To me it
looks
like town on town, but I think by POE that one of you are probably scum.
I don't really like your vague reads. Can you explain specifically why your town reads are town and your scum reads are scum? At this point of the game, should be able to do that.
DDD- no other reason he's town other than his claim?
Magua’s case on Fishy seems to be a two-level construct; first it’s a PoE eliminating those who helped lynch Macrophage and then among who are left he’s decided Fishy is the scummiest.
There are two big issues I have with Magua’s argument, first it seems to be largely meta based and my experiences with Fishy tell a different story as I’ve argued several times. The second is the lack of comparative analysis. If Magua did indeed PoE to a much smaller pool of suspects I’d expect to see some comparisons about why Fishy is a much better choice and I don’t really see that.
In post 1070, Fishythefish wrote:@Everyone who isn't Magua: Read me and Magua in double iso. He's consistently avoided engaging me on my meta, which is the bedrock of his case. His accusation that I haven't had reads or stances and/or that they've changed a lot is exaggerated for D1 and D2, and today is complete nonsense. I think it's pretty blatant that Magua isn't currently thinking about I'm saying or why, but instead looking for anything he can pick at, any way at all to keep up is spin that I'm not doing anything.
I mean I agree with this completely, there’s nothing substantial to the case that Magua has made in my opinion.
~~
Now as to the question of whether it comes from a scum perspective or not. The first thing to note is that it’s certainly not a pro-town thrust; some of the stuff I’ve been looking at suggests that town are much more likely to swing their vote around while scum are that much more likely to hunker down on whatever read they’ve got. On the other hand, the curious thing is how willfully defiant Magua’s been about his case since Fishy started actively defending himself. If you’re scum pushing that lynch surely don’t you go and cherrypick a few more examples to support your case or at least engage and disagree to try and persuade those who haven’t picked a side? It could be the case that there are literally no other examples he can use, but would Magua-scum push such a bad argument and wouldn’t Magua-town re-evaluate at some point when he couldn’t re-establish his point. I can come up with one possible town explanation for his behavior but I think the probability of it is relatively low compared to the other choice(s).
In the end my conclusion is pretty much the same as it was before; I’d prefer a SA lynch because of bad links to Macro on D1 and D2, and his complete flameout today but I can certainly see Magua as his partner or independently as scum if I’m somehow wrong about SA. They’re #1 and #2 on my list but in that order.
Wow, d3 has completely made me forget about mafia..
Anyway, I don't really like the case magua is making on fishy, the meta arguments really don't make a lot of sense. Besides, what is the point of meta if someone is not going to look at all the samples. Not sure if magua is being lazy town or sneaky scum with what he is trying to do but I don't like it either way.
rhinox, I don't really want to elaborate on town reads because of the mechanics of the game. As far as scum reads:
-DCL should be easy to find in my ISO although most of it goes back to bike.
-you (rhinox), basically what I said in that post. It's mostly gut, but also the fact that the hammer vote on macro doesn't necessarily scream town.
The ones that might be scum who I initially had or still have town reads on:
-fish. Basically being very wrong yesterday which is awkward for me because I had almost the exact same reads as he did.
-magua. Basically may be a fit as a macro buddy although I still need to do my own research on this.
Kortul- same as magua although he isn't at all a scum read unless I find something pretty solid.
3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
Www.escapeintothemixradio.com/EMRchatroom.html come say hi
SA: What, exactly did you not like from me, again?
DDD: I still feel confident in my Mag-vote, though I can follow you to SA at the deadline. In short: Switch your #1 and #2 and that's me.
As I'm staring at the screen of this tiny little laptop of my gramp's, I'm trying to think about the Fishy/Mag argument flipping my perspectives of the two (fishy-scum and Mag-town, respectively). At first glance it seems like it doesn't really add up with that in mind--Mag's meta argument is too refuted and overdrawn to be much use, and DDD raised a good point about the PoE. Fishy's defense, while seeminly more focused on that, still holds a sincerity that scum are rather hard-pressed to copy.
Making it be scum vs. scum maks SLIGHTLY more sense, though there's still the wrench of Fishy's sincerity. However, from this view Mag's disjointed argument does make a little more sense, as it is there enough that you can call it an argument, but there doesn't seem to be enough to really push anything. However, unless they decided during the night to let Mag take the fall or something, this is very much making Mag look worse, and I don't think Fishy-scum is really able to carry a game with this many town in it by himself (no offense meant). With that in mind, scum vs. scum isn't likely.
Going to town vs. town doesn't really make sense, largely because I agree with what DDD said. I really would've expected Mag-town to have at least tried a gander at a bit more meta to see if he can shore up his point better, not just stick to just one or two pieces of meta he may or may not have read and try to push those to kingdom come. So this STILL hurts Mag even as town.
So, yeah, I still feel like Mag's the scum in that argument (and I hope you people could follow that).
(also, yay for having a block of time to post something. Don't know if I'll have another one, though.)
P-EDIT: But the hammer doesn't scream scum, either...well, not to me at least.
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;
coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
Also keep an eye for setup review requests.
In post 1111, Sleepless Assassin wrote:-fish. Basically being very wrong yesterday which is awkward for me because I had almost the exact same reads as he did.
-magua. Basically may be a fit as a macro buddy although I still need to do my own research on this.
Your choices are you, Fishy, and Magua; who is scummiest and why?
Void, nothing huge. I don't tend to agree with your opinions or like your thought process, but nothing that makes me think you are scum.
DDD, right now, probably fish, then magua, then me. Like I said, fish mirroring me when I was so wrong probably isn't coincidence. Magua is next because he fits as a macro buddy if I take everyone else's word for it. I'm last because I know my role.
3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
Www.escapeintothemixradio.com/EMRchatroom.html come say hi
@SA: why is me mirroring you "probably not coincidence"? Why I couldn't I just have been thinking the same things as you? IIRC, there was a point where you said something like "Fishy said what I was thinking about the Macro case, but better". Why does us being wrong change that so much?
@DDD: thanks. Yes, I've been puzzling over some things about Magua's attack on me here. There's the way he's not backing up his meta, and the way he's not pushing anything else (ie my staunch defence of a scumbag). To me, the second feels townish, and the first scummish.
I won't have great access this weekend (but should get on occasionally).
You know I keep seeing Rhinox's name in the browsing list over the last two days and I keep expecting him to break this inertia we've got going and yet, nothing. DCL is also pretty much wasting his vote at this point unless he's going to retrench on kortul. And of course the rest of you are enabling SA in being as useless as possible.
SA, what exactly did you not like about my thought process or reasons?
DDD: How are we "enabling" him when that implies that you're in that group and that it's not necessarily on our end? Maybe you're right, but SA isn't helping himself, at least.
DCL: Well, if you don't like it, vote him. I can't believe I didn't notice how fence-sitting 1110 is.
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;
coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
Also keep an eye for setup review requests.
In post 1118, Voidedmafia wrote:DDD: How are we "enabling" him when that implies that you're in that group and that it's not necessarily on our end? Maybe you're right, but SA isn't helping himself, at least.
I bet if you voted him either he might actually be forced into helping out; or we'd have dead scum and that's equally good.
UNVOTE: fishythefish x 2 VOTE: Sleepless Assassin x 2
Sleepless Assassin wrote:Magua, to answer why I'm not voting, it's mostly that I'm not confident in my reads at all and haven't found any time to look over the game enough to change that.
Hi. I don't care if you're confident in your reads. I had Macrophage as a strong town-read, and look at me, I'm still voting. Put one down. All the cool kids are doing it.
DCL wrote:Anyway, I don't really like the case magua is making on fishy, the meta arguments really don't make a lot of sense. Besides, what is the point of meta if someone is not going to look at all the samples. Not sure if magua is being lazy town or sneaky scum with what he is trying to do but I don't like it either way.
Newsflash: kortul's not getting lynched. Vote someone who might get lynched.
In post 1116, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:You know I keep seeing Rhinox's name in the browsing list over the last two days and I keep expecting him to break this inertia we've got going and yet, nothing.
Yeah after I lost confidence in kortul-scum I really hit a wall. I'd be fine with an SA lynch. I keep thinking I should try to work something out with fishy vs magua but I have a feeling it might as well come to a coin flip there to me. I guess I'd probably lean towards voting magua but not enough where I want to make that choice today. I want to believe hiplop is town for voting macro but I really don't like his coasting and the fact that everyone seems to be ok with it. DCL and voided are town. You're probably town. That leaves SA, I'm not entirely sold on the case, but POE combined with him being unable to come up with an option better than himself leads me to be ok with the lynch.
He's at L-1 now? I'm prepared to hammer. If he's got any last words or a claim, now'd be a good time to hear it.
