Newbie 1248 (GAME OVER)

[AGar]

Welcome to Newbie 1248. You are playing Mafia.

Mod:

AGar

---

===================








===================

Alive

(

Bold

denotes a confirmed player)
3.

wombat99

4.

Arinna

5.

Regfan

kalbim

Balnazzar

6.

Hyperion

7.

Magic Trainer

LordChronos

(SE)
9.

Seacore

(IC)

(SE) denotes a Semi-Experienced player.
(IC) denotes the Inexperience Challenged player. The IC is here to help you learn the fundamentals of the game, and while playing to win, is bound by the guidelines in the article Being a good IC.

Dead

2.

Axxle - Mafia Goon

- Lynched, Day 1

8.

ChaosOmega

Mortontfrh

(SE) - Vanilla Townie

- Killed, Night 1

1.

Giitah

SoraAdvent

crabbyman66

- Mafia Rolecop

- Lynched, Day 2

Modkilled

---

Game Status

Game Over

Most Recent Votecount

None

Current Deadline

None

---

Rules

Stolen boldly from Oman, who stole it from someone else I've never heard of, who stole it from someone else, and modified to my needs.

[01] Votes must be in bold. If you do not bold your vote, it will not be counted. To vote: VOTE: AGar To Unvote UNVOTE: or UNVOTE: AGar. The site has vote tags which you can use. Please also make votes easily noticeable, preferably give them their own line.
[02] Unvotes are a nice courtesy, but not required to change votes.
[03] Lynching will require a simple majority of votes. Once a player has reached the necessary majority, their pleas are useless and any attempts to unvote will be unheeded. All players not yet dead after the hammer (meaning all alive save the lynchee) may talk in twilight, the period between the hammer and me locking the thread. If the day ends without a majority, no one will be lynched.
[04] You may VOTE: no lynch. Majority votes of this kind are necessary to end the day without a death.
[05] Deadlines for this game will be 3 weeks. Extensions may be given in extenuating circumstances, but the deadline will never be shortened.
[07] Do not discuss this game outside the thread unless your role states it. No-one may post in the thread when I declare it night (In case I don't lock it).
[08] Once your death scene has been posted, you’re dead. Stop typing. Not even a “Bah!” post. Just, just stop. Fingers off the keys. You're no longer breathing. Save it for after the game is over. I would love to hear from you after the game, just not when you could affect it.
[09] No small or invisible text. Don’t edit/delete previously submitted posts either. This also includes any forms of adding encrypted text.
[10] Don’t quote any PMs from me or other players. If you do, I will cast Summon Nature's Modkill V on you.
[11] Nights will last 72 hours. You have within this time frame to send me any night actions you may or may not have.
[12] If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period, please post a notice to that effect in the thread or PM me. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging. You will be prodded after 48 hours of inactivity. You will then have 24 hours to post. In the event that a third prod is needed, I will just force-replace you, no questions asked. This will earn you a spot on my personal blacklist.
[13] I am fallible. If I make a mistake, aside from votecounts, please notify me via PM and I will attempt to rectify it.
[14] There is no Rule 6
[15]

RED TEXT IS MY TEXT.

Do not attempt to impersonate me, it will result in an ugly, lonely death. Accidents happen, and I can be forgiving, but do not test me.
[16] Play to win this game. Do not use it to build a meta-game of yourself for other games, this game is an island. Also, all players must read their role PMs and understand their role before playing. If you have a question PM me.
[17] Remember, it’s a game and it’s supposed to be fun. Be nice to your fellow players and your mod.

---

The setup used for newbie games is 2of4. That includes this one. That means one of these six setups has been randomly selected for use this game.

*1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Rolecop, 5 Vanilla Townies, Sane Cop, Doctor
*1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Rolecop, 5 Vanilla Townies, Sane Cop, Jailkeeper
*1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Rolecop, 5 Vanilla Townies, Doctor, Jailkeeper
*1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Rolecop, 6 Vanilla Townies, Sane Cop
*1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Rolecop, 6 Vanilla Townies, Doctor
*1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Rolecop, 6 Vanilla Townies, Jailkeeper

There will always be 7 town players and 2 mafia players.

Here, following, are all of the role PMs.

Vanilla Townie

Welcome, [player]!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

. You have no special powers, just a voice and a vote. You win when all the mafia are dead and at least one town member is left alive.

The game thread is here.

Please confirm that you have read and understand your role PM by PMing me your rolename.

Sane Cop

Welcome, [player]!

You are the

Town Cop

. Each night you may PM me the name of a player you wish to investigate. You will receive a PM in return saying "Town," or "Mafia." Because you are in a newbie game, all of your results will be sane. You win when all of the mafia are dead and at least one town member is left alive.

The game thread is here.

Please confirm that you have read and understand your role PM by PMing me your rolename.

Doctor

Welcome, [player]!

You are the

Town Doctor

. Each night you may PM me the name of a player you wish to protect, aside from yourself. That player will be protected from the mafia kill that night.You win when all the mafia are dead and at least one town member is left alive.

The game thread is here.

Please confirm that you have read and understand your role PM by PMing me your rolename.

Jailkeeper

Welcome [player]!

You are the

Town Jailkeeper

. Each night you may PM me the name of a player, other than yourself. That player will be protected from the mafia kill that night, but will also be prevented from using any night actions they might have. You win when all the mafia are dead and at least one town member is left alive.

The game thread is here.

Please confirm that you have read and understand your role PM by PMing me your rolename.

Mafia Goon

Welcome [player]!

You are the

Mafia Goon

. Along with your partner [partner], the

Mafia Rolecop

, you must overtake this town. Each night you and your partner may scheme in this QuickTopic and decide on one player to kill. You must inform me of who is carrying out the kill as well. You win when the mafia outnumbers the town, or nothing can prevent the same.

The game thread is here.

Please confirm that you have read and understand your role PM by PMing me your rolename.

Mafia Rolecop

Welcome [player]!

You are the

Mafia Rolecop

. Along with your partner [partner], the

Mafia Goon

, you must overtake this town. Each night you and your partner may scheme in this QuickTopic and decide on one player to kill. You must inform me of who is carrying out the kill as well. Additionally, you may PM me the name of a player. You will be told the rolename of that player, unless you are blocked, in which case you will receive “No Result.” You win when the mafia outnumbers the town, or nothing can prevent the same.

The game thread is here.

Please confirm that you have read and understand your role PM by PMing me your rolename.

[AGar]

Role PMs have been distributed. The game will begin when 7 players have confirmed. (Please note that if this happens in the next 4-12 hours, there will be a delay until roughly 7 AM Eastern time)

(8/

9

)

[AGar]

Day 1 begins!

---

Votecount 1.00

crabbyman66

(0) -

Axxle

(0) -

wombat99

(0) -

Arinna

(0) -

Paschendale

(0) -

Hyperion

(0) -

LordChronos

(0) -

Mortontfrh

(0) -

Seacore

(0) -

Not Voting

(9) - crabbyman66, Axxle, wombat99, Arinna, Paschendale, Hyperion, LordChronos, Mortontfrh, Seacore

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

No one

is the current wagon leader(s), at

L-5

Deadline is in (expired on 2012-06-23 07:00:00)

[Seacore]

Hello all.

I'm your IC for this game.

For those of you who are new to this concept, I'm "Inexperience-Challenged", worded this way to accurately suggest that just because I've been around longer than you, it doesn't mean I'm better than you at this game.

I'm here to help you out with both the fundamentals of the game, and also the fundamentals of how this site plays the game. The difference between these two things I'll get to in a bit.

I'm also here to play the game, and by playing the game, I mean I'm trying to win. That creates a bit of unavoidable conflict of interest.

To help with that, any time I type in blue it means I'm telling the truth and I'm trying to educate. That doesn't mean that my normal text is lies, and there will obviously be some grey area, but hey, I do what I can.

So, first, some fundamentals.

Everybody should aim at posting once a day. That's more than the mod requires, but it means that when we all inevitably miss a day, we're still within requirements. It also helps with such a small game; if you don't post, there's not that many people to fill the gap.

Nobody should claim without a very good reason. Even saying "I'm just a vanialla townie" is a bad idea. Because it means that the mafia (also called 'scum') have a smaller pool to aim at to hit the Power Roles (PRs). Good reasons include: Your claim provides a guilty result on scum or you're one vote away from being lynched (at L-1). There usually aren't any other good reasons. If you're in doubt, as before you claim (as long as you're aware that even asking may out you as a PR).

Also, you should not place the final vote on somebody without giving them a fair chance to claim. Simply saying "oh, I didn't realise they were at L-1" is not acceptable. There aren't that many players, read all the posts before you vote.

NO SELF VOTING. Ever! Ever! There are some very complex situations where this may be appropriate. They won't come up here, so don't. Even if you think your lynch is inevitable and you are frustrated at being lynched, don't vote yourself, you're hurting yourself and your team. Good things can still come out of town being lynched, just try and continue to play the game and find scum.

Finally, just because somebody disagrees with you does not make them scum. Even if you think they are doing something stupid. Instead of looking for who

Okay, thats probably it for now with the fundamentals.

Lets talk about about how the game starts up, because lets face it, all the good guys are 'uninformed' which means that right now we have no information.

Some people like to start the game with a "Random Voting Stage" meaning they just place votes for no or made up reasons on players. I'm not a huge fan of this, but I don't make a big noise about it.

Other people like to start the game with a "Random Question Stage" meaning they ask a series of questions to some or all players and apparently gauge an insight from the answers, I personally think this is wank and I tend to ignore it.

Of course, not doing either of the first two doesn't leave many other options. I like to do different things depending on what's already happening in the game. Sometimes I make a really bad attack at somebody just to get people to pick sides. Other times I add a third vote to a wagon without a reason, looking for somebody to attack me (for similar reasons), things like that.

I'm going to be overly explaining myself in most instances in this game. I'd prefer if you guys err on that side of things as well, vote with clear reasons (unless you are RVSing)

Okay, good luck to both teams, lets play

[Arinna]

Hello, everyone. I've read three or four newbie games, so I think I know some of the basic things, although I have no practical experience.
It seems as though neither RQS nor RVS give off valuable clues, although I do think that the RQS is a good way of getting to know players better in general, and that the RVS is..well, I don't really see how it works, but it isn't harmful either.

So here are a few questions (some are based on discussions I've seen in the games I've read)~

1- What timezone are you in?
2- What do you think about the RVS? Or about votes in general? (About how much they "weigh" in your mind, etc.)
3- Since these issues tend to be debated a lot, what are your views on "lynch all liars" and "lynch all lurkers"?

I can't really think of anything else right now. So, to answer my own questions,

1- I am GMT + 2.
2- I have already given my thoughts on the RVS, but regarding votes in general, I am in favour of voting when one notices something suspicious instead of waiting for evidence to heap up, as pressure does help one get a variety of reactions, although the last two votes leading to a lynch would naturally weigh heavier than the first ones.
3- I think that a player who tells a very great lie (or possibly even a small one) would lose all credibility, so I probably would want to have them lynched because at that point I would pretty much be convinced that they are mafia. Regarding lurkers, I am in favour of somehow getting them to be more active or to be replaced as opposed to being lynched.

[Seacore]

Those aren't terrible questions and I'm happy to answer them.
I'm GMT +10
RVS does nothing until it initiates conflict, then it has value. Votes should mean something, but not necessarily the same thing every time. However, voting and declaring that it is for pressure is self defeating.
Lynching liars is good most of the time, but it shouldn't be automatic. Lynching lurkers isn't as successful in winning the game as I wish it was, particularly not in a 9 player game.

[wombat99]

Hello everyone. I am in the middle of my first-ever game on another board, and this will be my first game on this board. So far I have learned... That there's so much to learn

I am GMT -5 (US CDT)
Voting - I see it as a tool to elicit responses and information, also as a record of a players thought process as the game progresses. RVS - not useful other than just getting general conversation going.
Lynch all liars/lynch all lurkers: The game is not that black and white. Lurking and lying could be anti-town but not necessarily scum behavior.

[Seacore]

Wombat, is there a way to discourage anti-town behaviour other than lynching it ? Does not lynching anti-town give scum a free pass?

[wombat99]

Wombat, is there a way to discourage anti-town behaviour other than lynching it ? Does not lynching anti-town give scum a free pass?

I don't think it gives scum a free pass. Scum are not going to do something obviously anti-town if they are trying to pass as town. Wouldn't it be just as likely that a newbie Townie would do something anti-town inadvertently?

[Hyperion]

Hello everybody. I'm Hyperion, and this is my first game on this site. I have about 5 games under my belt at another mafia site, but there we play much shorter games (days last about 30 hours, and nights last between 2 and 8 hours), so I'm playing a nubie game to get used to the longer phases. So to reply to RQS:
1 My timezone is United States Eastern Standard Time, which I believe is GMT-5.
2 My thoughts on random vote stage? At my old site, we had something similar called Role PLay stage, where we would use alternate sign ins based on the game theme to play to discourage meta arguments, and people would make up a reason to vote based on the character the alternate sign in is based on (for example, in my last game, it was french themed, so I voted for the person signed in as the Bastille, because "it was a prison, so is probably is full of scum"). That makes sense right? But my thoughts on RVS and my old sites RP stage. They can be funny, but they don't do much until someone comes into conflict with someone else.
3 Lynching a liar is OK, but shouldn't be a rule that we must always lynch someone if they lie right then and there. Lynching lurkers I feel wouldnt be that successful in a newbie game, because a newbie may look like they are lurking but in reality they dont know how to contribute (because they are unexperienced) so they just keep quiet.
ummm.... I think thats it.

[Hyperion]

Oh wait, I was wrong in my above post. My timezone is GMT-4

[Arinna]

I don't think it gives scum a free pass. Scum are not going to do something obviously anti-town if they are trying to pass as town. Wouldn't it be just as likely that a newbie Townie would do something anti-town inadvertently?

It does seem possible, at times, for newbie townies to say things that give other players scum-vibes, thinking that a certain policy lynch might be pro-town. But do you think that would extend as far as lying? (To be honest, I can't think of a good and justifiable situation for a townie to lie, besides trying to hide their PR. I'm not saying that it can never be justified, but I'm having a very hard time trying to come up with such a scenario.)

[LordChronos]

Vote: Arinna

I loathe RQS with a passion. It changes the focus of the start of the game to theory discussion instead of scumhunting.

[Axxle]

VOTE: LordChronos for hating the RQS.

I haven't played long enough to know if RQS is a valuable scumhunting tool or not, but at least for a newbie game I think it's valuable in that it makes everyone feel like they're coming into the game contributing. It helps new players feel less lost.

I like that Seacore is coming right out the gate telling us what an IC is and he is going to be doing. In my first game I was terribly confused as to what my IC was supposed to do.

1) I am at PDT (UTC - 7). @Hyperion, are you sure you're not in EDT instead of EST?
2) I found the RVS to be very strange in my first game. I didn't start the game (I was replaced in) so I didn't experience it so I had trouble seeing how it helps. If anything it felt like it allowed scum to get an easy early vote in with the pretext of it being random. Getting votes on someone bears a lot more weight when it isn't random.
3) I think creating a metagame environment where players Lynch Liars and Lurkers is a good way to discourage that behavior by players. It shouldn't be a hard and fast rule that we can't see past, but as a rule of thumb it's a good idea.

[Arinna]

I loathe RQS with a passion. It changes the focus of the start of the game to theory discussion instead of scumhunting.

I don't think knowing a few basic things about the other players can do any harm, and I'm not sure at all that the RVS contributes, in the first few posts, more than the RQS. I am not sure how one can go scumhunting without

any

material to go on, and the RQS does get people to talk, at least more so than the very short RVS posts I've seen where players do nothing but fling votes around.

[Hyperion]

I loathe RQS with a passion. It changes the focus of the start of the game to theory discussion instead of scumhunting.

I don't think knowing a few basic things about the other players can do any harm, and I'm not sure at all that the RVS contributes, in the first few posts, more than the RQS. I am not sure how one can go scumhunting without

any

material to go on, and the RQS does get people to talk, at least more so than the very short RVS posts I've seen where players do nothing but fling votes around.

Yes but what he means is that RQS can get us off track and cause us to talk about the overarching theory of the game mafia, such as what we are doing now with the lynch all liars and lynch all lurkers discussion. Now, scum can comment on this discussion and look like they are contributing. So asking a question like that is an opening for scum to look like they are contributing without doing any scumhunting.

[Seacore]

Wombat, is there a way to discourage anti-town behaviour other than lynching it ? Does not lynching anti-town give scum a free pass?

I don't think it gives scum a free pass. Scum are not going to do something obviously anti-town if they are trying to pass as town. Wouldn't it be just as likely that a newbie Townie would do something anti-town inadvertently?

There is a problem with this logic. The moment that you declare that anti-town behaviour is more likely to come from town than scum, you are effectively giving scum permission to act that way. On the flip side, if you lynch anti-town behaviour, scum are forced to be pro-town, which restricts their freedom, and any mislynches are from anti-town town, which weren't helping town win anyway

[wombat99]

Wombat, is there a way to discourage anti-town behaviour other than lynching it ? Does not lynching anti-town give scum a free pass?

I don't think it gives scum a free pass. Scum are not going to do something obviously anti-town if they are trying to pass as town. Wouldn't it be just as likely that a newbie Townie would do something anti-town inadvertently?

There is a problem with this logic. The moment that you declare that anti-town behaviour is more likely to come from town than scum, you are effectively giving scum permission to act that way. On the flip side, if you lynch anti-town behaviour, scum are forced to be pro-town, which restricts their freedom, and any mislynches are from anti-town town, which weren't helping town win anyway

I see your point.

[Paschendale]

Well, I've been holding off checking in, but I don't want to cause any problems by seeming to be missing. I'm sorting out an issue with the mod right now, so I didn't want to muck up the game until I'm sure I'm actually in it. So I just wanted to say that I am here, but that I'll be holding off saying anything until I hear from AGar.

[Arinna]

Yes but what he means is that RQS can get us off track and cause us to talk about the overarching theory of the game mafia, such as what we are doing now with the lynch all liars and lynch all lurkers discussion. Now, scum can comment on this discussion and look like they are contributing. So asking a question like that is an opening for scum to look like they are contributing without doing any scumhunting.

I am aware of what he meant by that. But the RQS is just what the name implies: It is random, and it is a stage. I have not seen the RVS or the RQS extend beyond two or three pages on this forum, and I do hope this will be the case here as well. I don't know about anyone else's opinion, but if you're willing to believe me when I state my own thoughts (you don't have to), I would not count answering to the RQS questions as a contribution, and theoretical answers tend to be WIFOM, so I would not rely on them for anything. But again, as I've already stated, I think it's a good ice-breaker, and I do think that it's nice to know a bit about the other players, including their general stances regarding a few basic subjects (which, of course, one can never completely trust, but yeah..)

I was thinking that there were still many players who hadn't written to us, but now that I've counted, there are only 3.. But Lord Chronos, I'm curious, how does one begin scumhunting at the very beginning of the game? RQS isn't a very good scumhunting tool, but since the votes in RVS are random, I'm not sure what kind of evidence you expect to find in it. It seems to me as though analysing those votes can't work, so what do you do to obtain your first material? (You do not have to answer this if you feel that it would endanger the future effectiveness of your strategies. Actually, you do not have to answer it at all; I'm just not sure about how players pass from the beginning stage to scumhunting. =.= )

And welcome (sort of), Paschendale.

[Axxle]

I think the basics of scumhunting are: Get everyone to talk. Keep them talking. Hopefully you get the scum to slip up, maybe even catching them in a lie. Of course you have to take into consideration bad town players and things like that. In my previous game there was a lot of talk about "Gut tells" that people had, basically initial feelings about players even without much evidence to back it up. Those help too since many times scum tend to behave differently when giving them than town. All in all getting people to talk seems to be key.

[Axxle]

And in that light, where are you crabbyman66? Where are you Mortontfrh? Game's started!

[LordChronos]

There is no such thing as a "random voting

stage

". It is true that initially there is a shortage of information and votes tend to be more "random", but the goal from post one is to scumhunt. To initiate conversation, to question, and to discuss the game.

See http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13710.

[Axxle]

Thank you! I will read both articles when I can (which might be now)

[Seacore]

That is patently false LC. You may think that an RVS isn't helpful, and I'd agree with you, but to say it doesn't exist as a concept is wrong. As an SE please try and be clear about when you're giving your opinion.

Also, it's a weekend , so let's not get worked up about some players not posting.