Mini 62: Pokemafia!

[mathcam]

[ignorant]So we should confirm, submit any and all night choices,

and

name a wild Pokemon that we want to try to recruit? And unless there's a Pokemon variant of the word "ceremony", there's a typo in the thread title.[/ignorant]

Cam

[mathcam]

Typo fixed by all-powerful me. Does it sound like I understand the rules correctly, though?

Cam

[mathcam]

I'm not sure that confirming in the thread is necessary.

Cam

[mathcam]

It's night. We're probably waiting on some choices still.

Cam

[mathcam]

Mole, are we still waiting for some night choices? Maybe you could bold people's names in the first post who still have something to do in terms of confirming or making night choices?

Cam

[mathcam]

It's been 8 days...maybe those players should be replaced?

Cam

[mathcam]

Estimates on start time, mole? I don't want to sound excessively whiny, but it

has

been a 15-day pre-twilight.

Cam

[mathcam]

For the discers and mathcams of the crowd, who's good? Who's bad?

Cam

[mathcam]

My original pokemon is not one-shot. It doesn't evolve afaik, but afaik isn't very far.

Vote: Stewie

Cam

[mathcam]

Sorry, should have specified OMGUS. I'm too out of my league to try anything more sophisticated.

Cam

[mathcam]

Would we be able to identify the Team Rocket members based on the pokemon they have? If not, how would we identify them?

I think someone mentioned earlier that we already had a case of a bad pokemon being with a good trainer, or vice-versa, so I'm not sure we can do that.

Cam

[mathcam]

We still haven't heard back from Someone about his "This is still very strange for me" post. On the one hand, I feel like he's probably pro-town because of it, and maybe we shouldn't press the issue. On the other hand, he wouldn't have said anything at all if he really didn't want to...

So Someone, out with it.

Cam

[mathcam]

I haven't been able to get on much because my room is being cleaned right now.

This post was on Tuesday...the last time you posted was Friday. That must have been one messy room.

Okay, I'm inclined to not push Someone any further for whatever information. It'll probably do the mafia more good than it does us.

I see no alternative to shamelessly bandwagoning.

Unvote: Stewie, Vote: PBuG

,

'cause he gets his room cleaned for him.

Cam

[mathcam]

mlaker, you can't vouch for PBuG. Just because you chose the same Pokemon has he did has no bearing on whether or not he's evil. The generic townie/trainer discrepancy is bigger than anything I bet we'll get out of anyone else. That's quite suspicious, though I understand the possibility for a misstatement is present. But still. There's no point in needlessly bandwagonin gsomeone when we already have a viable target.

My vote stays.

Cam

[mathcam]

Members of Team Rocket are not allowed to participate in the League.

Hmm, this does seem to clear mlaker and PBuG right off the bat, as they both knew what the Bulbosaur does.

Unvote: PBuG

Or am I misreading mole's post?

Cam

[mathcam]

It seems quite possible that Team Rocket might not be able to recruit Pokemon but have other abilities. Maybe they can steal

our

Pokemon. So basically it comes down to this:

If we feel that Team Rocket isn't capable of recruiting wild Pokemon (because they're not allowed in the tournament), then PBuG and mlaker are almost certainly cleared.

Otherwise, I'm most suspicious of PBuG.

Fletcher...I don't understand your last post. If you're conceding that Team Rocket could, for example, own Bulbosaur, then wouldn't that

support

the argument against PBuG? Yet you unvoted him.

Cam

[mathcam]

Are the original pokemon somehow distinguishable from the recruitable ones?

Cam

[mathcam]

Well, that's definitely quoting the mod. If the Pokemon has two pieces of important information, they could each reveal one. If not, we could divide it up over two nights or something. But the mafia might have extra information that'll clear them...or someone could get role-blocked from recruiting and then we'd lynch 'em for not having the right information. I definitely see what you're saying, but here's a lot of ways it could go wrong.

Cam

[mathcam]

So massive's " I'd be really suspicious of anyone who came up with MY original Pokemon, that's for sure. " doesn't hold a lot of water, right?

Cam

[mathcam]

The reason I tend to think TR have Pokemon is exactly becuase of what's happening. If they didn't, then we could all verify each other by recruiting the same mafia at night. The rockets would be the only ones without, so that would be immediately obvious. So either TR has Pokemon to recruit also, or there's a serious flaw in the game. It's safest for us to assume the former.

All in all, my PBuG vote is becoming more and more entrenched.

Cam

[mathcam]

It sure would be nice to lynch a TR so we could find out some information about them. As I've probably mentioned several times, I bet everyone has an initial pokemon, so the bulbosaur logic just doesn't pan out. Hence (again) the vote. We're certainly not coming up with any

new

information...so we have to either lynch PBuG or force someone else to reveal. PBuG's already made his claim weird by saying "generic townie" and I doubt we'll get anything as weird from anyone else.

My vote's going to stay on PBuG unless the town goes and bandwagons someone else and by some miracle manages to catch them in a lie.

Cam

[mathcam]

Well, I'm sure this will be played off as just an innocent slip-up, but I sure find it interesting that mathcam has commented twice about maintaining his PBuG vote despite having unvoted him at the top of this page.

Ummm, yep. I could have sworn I revoted him. I even have it written in my notes that I did. Oh well.

Vote: PBuG

Cam

[mathcam]

He's the only person I find at all suspicious other than my permanent suspicion of mlaker. I think PBuG made a slip by calling his role "generic townie". Of course he could have been good and done this, but if he was evil, he probably would have

had

to do it, because he didn't know what the "generic townie" was actually called.

I may have had more reasons and I probably stated them in an earlier post. Maybe someone coudl explain the mlaker bandwagon to me?

Cam

[mathcam]

I don't understand that post at all. You're saying that I shouldn't be suspicious of PBuG because I don't think he knew the name of the "generic townie" role, but now you're suspicious of me because

I

might not have known the name of the generic townie role?

And I wasn't continuing an argument...I was re-stating it because you asked me to. I can certainly see why people wouldn't find it as suspicious as I do, but that doesn't mean I didn't/don't find it suspicious. On top of this is that generic townie is the easiest claim for evil. This of course doesn't mean he's not a townie, but a) it's a likely role for evil to pick early in the game before they know the game's setup, and b) if he's telling the truth, lynching him is better than killing someone with a powerful pro-town role.

As for mlaker, I just don't see it. This is one of the few times I've been in a game with mlaker and not found him incredibly suspicious. One of the arguments is that he tried to vouch for PBuG...but that's not evil in and of itself unless PBuG is his fellow mafia anyway.

I feel like you're trying to convince the rest of the town to jump on the superior bandwagon. It's worth noting the people joining you on the mlaker bandawgon are PBuG, discer, and Stewie, who have given the below reasons:

Vote: mlaker

, because I should do something and don't know what else to go on.

Vote: mlaker

, reason stated above by discer.

Vote: mlaker

, same as Stewie and discer.

Cam

[mathcam]

What can I say? Mostly valid points all around. But...

I did think mlaker's post was an attempt at clearing PBuG. It seemed to me like mlaker was trying to help the town get off a bandwagon of someone he thought to be innocent. But, of course, he could have been doing as you suggest.

The only other options currently are to bandwagon PBuG (which we already did, and enough people jumped off with the Bulbasaur revelation)

I personally (and I think you agree) think the Bulbasaur revelation is worthless. I guess that's another psychological reason why I'm staying on the bandwagon...because other people got off for what I deem a stupid reason.

From my point of view we can either continue bandwagonning or go with someone we've already bandwagoned and has made a dubious (even if only slighly so) role claim.

Cam

[mathcam]

Yeah, I did see that, but I didn't take it too seriously. He was voting because of your vibes? Plus, my argument looked stronger if I left it off.

Cam

[mathcam]

*does the humpty dance*

IN YOUR FACE, MASIVE!!!! Okay, not really, just a little excited. Now if only we could find us a mod...

Cam

[mathcam]

Oh.

Unofficial end-of-day vote count:

PBuG (5): shadyforce, mathcam, mlaker, massive, Stewie
mlaker (2): discer, PBuG
massive (1): Maverick

No vote (2): Someone, Fletcher

This is accurate if massive's last one was, I think. Unfortunately, we need 6 to lynch. So Someone, Fletcher, discer, or really even PBuG needs to put on the finishing vote.

Cam

[mathcam]

Ummm...how does training work? I can train the Pokemon I've already caught

or

I can go catch another? Or both?

Cam

[mathcam]

I really want a Torchic. Can't we adjust the Pokemon range?

Right, mlaker. That's why he wanted to adjust the range.

I've emailed mole, but as of now, no response. Unfortunately, this is not the game where we can take a substitute mod, as probably only mole knows the various roles and even the game mechanics.

Cam

[mathcam]

Mole is on his way back. He replied to email saying he was busy with exams, but is now essentially done. I think he'll probably be back today. In any case, let's hold off on abandoning it.

Cam

[mathcam]

Sigh...I don't know...he said he was going to come back. I've sent him another email. I'd vote to not abandon, but of course, if the majority wants to...

Cam

[mathcam]

Brisbane, Australia. Hmm.

Cam

[mathcam]

Mole, can you clarify what we're supposed to do at night? Do we recruit a new Pokemon, train an existing one, both, or none of the above?

Cam

[mathcam]

Bump? You still around, mole?

Cam

[mathcam]

Aren't we just going to be having everyone claim Pokemon trainer? And we expose our docs and/or cops?

Cam

[mathcam]

There's no way we have to assume there are three killers left. It's possible some killing gropu got two kills, and there's a good shot people just misused their Pokemon.

Someone...you couldn't get a choice in on time? Night was like two weeks long!!!!!!

How about sharing what killed discer? I have no idea, and I can't see any detriment in making it public. Whoever's doing it already knows, and I don't.

Cam

[mathcam]

I'm not sure what you're implying, Stewie. What's wrong with the facts as Someone's presented them?

Fletcher, you still playing?

Cam

[mathcam]

Oh, I think he was referring to getting Meowth night 2, which was "last night" at the time he was referring to in that post. But I see your point.

Cam

[mathcam]

And I meant night 1, not night 2.

Cam

[mathcam]

No offense, Fletcher, but

I

think you're not following the thread, and have latched on to an incredibly weak argument that you saw upon skimming the thread to cover yourself.

I'm not defending him. From my point of view, the chance he's evil is at least %40, so I wouldn't be surprised if he were evil, but I just don't think this particular argument holds any water.

Cam

[mathcam]

Hey

mole

, could you maybe commandeer the third post for posting a list of all revealed Pokemon's abilities?

Cam

[mathcam]

I gotta say I'm a lot more wary of the people trying to get in a quick lynch that on Someone himself. Anyone who

was

pro-town would be worried that if they put two votes on someone, the mafia could finish off the other two instantaneously.

Cam

[mathcam]

Let me get this clear right now: IT. IS. ENDGAME. RIGHT. NOW.

If we lynch wrong today, then the mafia kills one overnight, and we wake up with 4 people left, two of which are mafia, which is an automatic win for them. Not only this, but we've seen a demonstration that there is a remarkable amount of killing power left.

It's quite possible that this involves a vigilante role gone astray last night, but the paragraph above should illustrate that even if there's only going to be one kill tonight, we're screwed if we lynch wrong today, and there's quite possibly going to be

more

than one.

Cam

[mathcam]

Nope. I was suggesting we be careful with our votes. I would support no lynch, possibly, if

a) We were sure how many evil there were left, and their distribution among teams
b) We could be confident of how many kills there would be tonight.

Though a is somewhat clear, b is not. I realize I've just been arguing against people's arguments and not making any cases of my own, so I'll figure out who I find most suspicious momentarily. I was just trying to make sure we didn't lynch anyone too quickly.

Cam

[mathcam]

Okay, I've got some ideas and will think just a little more about them before I post, but I have a general thought first: How did Maverick die?

If he used Abra, he should have been safe, but mole writes that Team Rocket was too fast for him. What does that mean? Did his use of Abra get role-blocked. Maybe the evil team has a pokemon that goes through doc protections? Maybe we

should

reveal all of our Pokemon....probably not. It's just too easy to lie.

Honeslty, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I think I look pretty damn cleared. I led the charge against PBuG when most people had their votes strewn about OMGUSly. This any my arguments today. I'd like to hear people either agree of argue on this point.

Someone, I'd really like an explanation of what your conflict was on day one. This is no time for holding anything back. Or did I miss the explanation on my read-through?

Cam

[mathcam]

I don't think there's anyone actually arguing for no lynch, just a bunch of people arguing against it.

I also think that if you are the townie player who managed to kill a player last night, you had best come forward with it. Now. Or if anyone caught a Meowth recently, so we know we'll have some decent info tomorrow.

Good point. Any names of known-to-you innocents should be made public, as well as confessions of killings last night. If three kills a night is going to be the norm, and we just got lucky night 1, then we're totally screwed, so I don't really believe that.

massive, you seem very sure about some of this night activity stuff...you claimed earlier that we HAD to conclude that there were three evil groups. And now this most recent post. This makes me think you know something you're not telling the rest of us.

Cam

[mathcam]

But with PBuG dead, that makes 4 out of 12 evil, which is a lot. I guess I'll have to take your word for it.

I know I'm going to have a tough time defending this position, but I'm going to

Vote: Shadyforce

.

Why? It's primarily that several other people have done things that make me think they're innocent, and shady hasn't. This, and he was a little eager to start going after people today.

Cam

[mathcam]

Hmm, very strange situation for me. Random vote: stewie

This is the quote I'm referring to, Someone, not your night choice.

It seems likely to me that Stewie was somehow involved in the killing of mlaker. This is at least much more plausible to me than the possibility of three killing groups.

Cam

[mathcam]

Hmm, how likely is a third drowzee? Is it popular enough of a Pokemon that someone not knowing much about Pokemon would have been known to pick him. Then again, I had never heard of the Pokemon I recruited last night.

What does Talitha mode mean?

I also wonder about "being asleep." Aren't we all asleep at night?

Cam

[mathcam]

mlaker lies unconscious in a different part of the forest. He has also been taken to hospital.

Hm, that doesn't sound like a Drowzee kill either. But I'm not sure why you think this means Stewie is evil. Doesn't that mean just that Stewie's Drowzee isn't responsible for the death? So someone targeted mlaker to die for some other reason, and I'm not sure why your argument means it any more likely to be Stewie than someone else.

Cam

[mathcam]

I have no idea. What you are suggesting, Cam, is that Stewie put mlaker to sleep and someone ELSE knocked him unconscious?

Well, kind of. I'm not saying that this someone else is not Stewie, just that it wasn't Stewie's Drowzee that knocked mlaker unconscious. I think we're pretty much agreeing that it's not true that Stewie's Drowzee didn't do the killing.

I just don't know. It's not adding up. Please also note that Stewie thinks we will have less kills tonight because "the docs will get one right" and not because he won't use his Drowzee to keep from accidentally killing another player.

This is a good point. Okay, it's better than my gut feeling on Shadyforce.

Unvote: Shadyforce, Vote: Stewie

Cam

[mathcam]

Unvote: Stewie

I'm now fairly convinced Fletcher's not mafia. (Or, at worse, mafia with Stewie). My suspicion of shadyforce just isn't going away. He was willing to put a third vote on knowing that two evil might be around to finish it off?

I don't know what I'm going to do yet.

Cam

[mathcam]

Oh yeah. I now have a Bulbosaur, a Chansey, and a Diglett.

Cam

[mathcam]

No, I recruited Diglett (who I've never heard of) and recruited Bulbosaur (the only Pokemon I

have

heard of.)

I think it's gotta be shadyforce. He just keeps coming with the votes, regardless of how close they put someone to lynch. Eagerness to lynch just about anyone implies mafia to me.

Vote: shadyforce

I'm pretty indifferent on revealing, though anyone else with a Drowzee should definitely come forward and say whether or not you targeted mlaker last night.

Cam

[mathcam]

Cam, that's the second time you hinted that 2 scum could finish off a lynch.

Really? I didn't mean to only be hinting. It sure seems like a fact to me. There are 4 townies and 2 mafia left, presumably. If the two mafia succeed in lynching today, there are 3 townies and 2 mafia left. When a townie dies overnight, there are 2 townies and 2 mafia left. The mafia win. I thought I had made this clear before, and the fact that you keep questioning it is just adding to your suspiciousness.

if I was one of them, then there wouldn't be 2 scum to finish off the lynch as there are only 2 remaining mafia right?

Shady, you were the 3rd of 4 to lynch. Only

one

more evil, now two, had to jump on to finish the kill. You're just digging yourself a deeper and deeper grave.

Now that I think about it, perhaps a more likely situation (Conoisseurs of Pokemon should feel free to correct me): Isn't the tournament won by a single player? Maybe there is no mafia, but rather a collection of individual serial killers. That would certainly do a better job of explaining the multiple kills. AND it would explain why Shadyforce keeps dismissing the possibility of a mafia group ending the lynch.

This has got to be clear to someone else now, right? There is now no doubt in my mind that shady is evil. If

anyone

(other than shady) disagrees, I'm all ears, but I doubt you're going to change my mind.

Cam

[mathcam]

No, your hypothesis about there being individual killers looks unlikely given that PBuG is a Rocket. And the don't call it "Team Rocket" for nothing.

So in the show, the whole team wins a tournament rather than just one player? Maybe each Team Rocket gets a kill? I'm quite willing to abandon this idea if it's as unplausible as shady suggests.

But this wasn't the key factor in my argument against Shadyforce. You're quite right that I can't be sure about my suspicion, and I will certainly admit that it is, in fact, just a suspicion, but it's as strong of one as I ever get playing mafia, and hence the vote.

Cam

[mathcam]

Okay, okay, maybe I'll actually do some research in this game. Legendary pokemon, eh?

I still think shadyforce is most suspicious, though.

And Fletcher could have killed Stewie and probably won the game for the mafia, but didn't.

Cam

[mathcam]

I just misspoke. Good catch. I started with Diglett, and recuited Bulbosaur, and then Chansey. I think it's pretty clear that this was just a typo and not a "slip" just by checking the context of the sentence:

Cam: did you start with the Bulbosaur?

No, I recruited Diglett (who I've never heard of) and recruited Bulbosaur (the only Pokemon I have heard of.)

I did, actually, recruit Chansey because someone mentioned recruiting him to be a good pick (probably massive).

I gotta say I'm somewhat dismayed by the fact that we're not focusing on the two people I find most likely to be innocent: me and Fletcher. Stewie's third on my list of innocents, so I guess I feel that two out of massive, Someone, and shadyforce are evil, and I'm relatively confident about shady.

Even

I

know Jigglypuff has a sleep-related ability (via Super Smash Brothers Melee for the GameCube )....so I do see some suspicion on Fletcher from that point, but it's quite possible that mole just wanted to have different Pokemon have different abilities, and the role that Fletcher is claiming for jigglypuff certainly isn't unbelievable. Maybe I'm being blind-sided by this, but the fact that Fletcher didn't enact the lynch when he had the ability to really seems somewhat convincing to me.

I'll probably post again in a minute or two once I collect my thoughts on legendary pokemon.

Cam

[mathcam]

Hey, wait a minute! I used Bulbosaur on massive last night. He shouldn't have three Pokemon. Unless Fletcher Jigglypuffed me, I guess. Fletcher?

This Legendary pokemon things is very weird. There are 2 out of the three in the game? It seems more likely to me that there are none in the game, and that massive and shadyforce are lying. But Stewie has a point about it being risky for scum to claim them, so I don't know. This quote stands out to me as being suspicious:

Hrm. Shadyforce ... when you read your PM about Articuno, did you have the same impression that I did - that all three Legendary Pokemon were in the game? I would have argued that point for quite a while, had it come up. Were you as surprised as I was to see no Zapdos?

This sounds a lot to me like two mafia putting on an act of surprise. I guess I'll reiterate my strong belief that we should lynch shadyforce, and possible massive next if shady's innocent. I'm appealing mostly to Stewie, Someone, and Fletcher here, as massive has made it clear he's not voting for Shadyforce.

Cam

[mathcam]

I'm sure we'll continue to go rounds. This is kinda fun.

Agreed.

a) There's no reason to suspect I'm lying about having a bulbosaur. Unless you believe I'm a magnificent liar, it's pretty clear I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to Pokemon. Bulbosaur is one of the only pokemon that non-fans would have heard it. In any case, I don't think you really think otherwise, so the point is mostly moot.

b) Okay, the points in your second paragraph are taken.

c) Why would I lie about the order in which I received my pokemon? And if I lied, why would I backtrack?

What's funny is, I can explain a lot of that, cam. It's a nice attempt, but looking more and more desperate.

I don't get this at all. If it's stuff worth explaining, then how does it look desparate? But honestly, I am getting desparate. I can't believe none of you see shadyforce as evilly as I do, and I can't believe you're leaning towards lynching Fletcher or me instead.

Someone: why do you think we should lynch me?

Cam

[mathcam]

So you can never be night-killed? It sounds like massive is claiming the same thing with his Vulpix pokemon. This seems highly unlikely. Or maybe Team Rocket has some way of killing other than using pokemon?

Cam

[mathcam]

Very informative post. Excellent.

It's not stupid to defend your mafia team-mate if you have any feeling that this is going to be the last day of the game.

I personally feel a willingness to join bandwagons readily is more indicative of scum than doggedly pursuing his one hunch. And I would like to point out that it's more than just a hunch now. There are several factors which are contributing to my vote, all of which have been mentioned by various people at various times. I will concede that they are all circumstantial, but certainly no moreso than anything anyone has on me.

But maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree. I'm definitely becoming less sure of my suspicion on Shady, but unfortunately, my suspicion on anyoen else isn't rising. Maybe Stewie could weigh in?

Cam

[mathcam]

Uh-oh. I'm starting to wish-wash. I hate it when that happens. Maybe Someone is a better target after all.

Cam

[mathcam]

It's not his usual sharp play, he's making more mistakes then normal.

This is true. Let this be a lesson to me not to sign up for themed games on themes about which I have no knowledge.

I know I'm harping on this, but no one else has even addressed the issue, so I'll continue harping: If there were three players left (Players A, B, and C), and player A has voted for player B, and player C comes along and doesn't vote, we

know

Player C is not mafia. If he were, he could have won the game by voting and killing player B.

Admittedly, the argument is much weaker here. We don't know that this is the last day, and we don't know the distribution of the killing forces, but I remain steadfast in my belief that if Fletcher were evil, he would have put on the killing vote on Stewie.

Unvote: shadyforce, Vote: Someone

Cam

[mathcam]

now edited to "correct" mathcam's claim:

Ha ha. Very funny.

In my notes, I had you as most suspicious at the time. I had mlaker and Someone down as probably good, and you had a couple of lines that I thought questionable. I do have a "However, massive DID catch a PBuG slip and made it public" there too.

Cam

[mathcam]

What are you talking about? Haven't we all revealed our Pokemon? Aren't we all just going to claim trainers?

Cam

[mathcam]

Yeah, I think Someone's just surpassed shadyforce on my evil radar.

This is admittedly tangential, but I'd just like to point out how awesome it is to play a 6-player middle game with 6 active players (5 and a half if you count Fletcher ). The game is already longer than all but the longest of minis, and we're only on day 2 (though this might be a pretty short game in terms of number of days). There's been awesome debate, votes jumping every which way, and all in all, there's a good solid game in the background, so props to mole for that.

Anyways, carry on.

Cam

[mathcam]

Hm, yeah. Two evil out of 12. That seems likely.

Cam

[mathcam]

And the wait begins... . We should submit any and all night choices, I would say.

Cam

[mathcam]

Really? okay....

Plus, there's always the chance that he actually needed one more to lynch than he actually got, or was unlynchable, etc., so I guess waiting's not an entirely ridiculous idea.

We could all send in choices assuming he's a townie, and be allowed to change them if something weird happens.

Cam

[mathcam]

*bumps to the top of the list*

Cam

[mathcam]

I guess we might as well discuss night strategies. I think I'll probably randomly doc protect among the non-shadyforces (Sorry, you're still the most suspicious).

Cam

[mathcam]

That is so mean! You have almost signed my death warrant saying that, unless your going to double back and actuually protect me and save the kill. Hmm...

Yeah, well hey, I'm a mean guy.

You're probably right in either case. I'll random.org it up among everyone for protection.

Cam

[mathcam]

Here's my bi-daily bump to remind mole.

Cam

[mathcam]

Someone, could you reveal your Pokemon?

Cam

[mathcam]

I did a little research into the Game Boy game aspect of this game, and noticed that Giovanni (the Rocket leader) has Dugtrio as a Pokemon - and Dugtrio is an evolved form of Diglett, which we know mathcam has.

I thought we decided there was no relation between starting Pokemon and Trainer/Rocket. Not to mention that "There are no bad pokemon, only bad trainers blah blah blah." Apparently, that defense only works when applying it to

actual

Team Rocket members.

I'm starting to lean toward massive being innocent as well, and I still maintain that Fletcher is innocent (a clarion call which I now see shadyforce is taking up despite ignoring for it the better part of yesterday).

So for me, it's between shadyforce and Stewie. Shady claims to have an all-powerful pro-town ability tonight. Honestly, I don't believe it. Plus, I thought Stewie was looking pretty innocent after yesterdaty...I intended to protect him last night. I'm going to have to follow my gut instincts from yesterday, and

Vote: Shadyforce

.

And hopefully, I've got the votes to back me up. Stewie, it's not you. And Fletcher, I think you probably realize I'm innocent. But maybe there's something I'm mis-reading.

Who did you use your psyduck on, Fletcher?

Cam

[mathcam]

Oh, and shadyforce, Bulbosaur doesn't stop your actions, only your ability to recruit new pokemon. But believe me, if I could stop your night actions, I would.

My problem is that I can't decide who's Rocket with shadyforce.

Cam

[mathcam]

I also notice Mathcam pulling the usual stunt of trying hard to decide whether Stewie or me were scum, no doubt an effort to distance yourself from him, and ever-so-surprisingly deciding on me. Very typical scum tactics and you should be ashamed of yourself for trying it.

Really? I thought I was pretty clear. My only choices were Stewie or you, and I found Stewie so innocent that I was going to protect him last night. It wasn't very hard of a decision at all. Plus, the now duplicated Pokemon claim?

I find it very difficult to believe that mole put exactly 2 of these super Pokemon in and had them do the exact same thing.

As for tonight, Stewie and I (and only Stewie and I, righit?) have a doc-protect. That leaves pretty good chances for no kill over night.

I too will think about the benefits of no lynch, but I don't see any right off the bat.

Cam

[mathcam]

Hm, I meant the ability to protect others, but that's useful info as well.

You

were

talking about abra, right?

Cam

[mathcam]

And the self-protects aren't all that they're cracked up to be too, right? Abra sure didn't help Maverick too much.

Cam

[mathcam]

I'd rather not reveal what Diglett does, but if it's life or death, then I'm happy to. It's a role that's better when concealed.

Stewie, did you mean Diglett instead of Dugtrio?

Cam

[mathcam]

Oh, right. Dugtrio was the evolved Diglett. Has

anyone

managed to evolve their Pokemon? I successfully used Bulbosaur (oh wait, did I?) but he didn't evolve at all. I forgot what happened...I targeted massive, but then he still had 3 pokemon. What was up with that again?

Cam

[mathcam]

Well, I know this argument has been said before, but having 1 out of the 3 legendary pokemon seems a lot more likely to me than having 2 of the 3 legendar pokemon in the game. I would guess that mole didn't think about the specific number of legendary pokemon, but instead just tried to balance the starting roles as they were included.

I don't know anything about Zapdos...if he's evil, it's possible that shady (or, really, anyone) is lying about their original pokemon and having zapdos in stead. Now that I think about it, if Zapdos is evil, I'll strongly consider unvoting.

Cam

[mathcam]

I've been wondering more and more about Fletcher. He's been lurking the whole game and the argument "He could have killed (whoever it was) but didn't" only applies if he noticed that the lynch was only one vote away. Given the attention that Fletcher has put into this game, I'm not sure that's all that reasonable of an assumption. Even still, though, all this does is make him appear to me as the most likely person to be shadyforce's evil accomplice. If all goes well, I'll probably be looking his way tomorrow.

I too am not sure about where I got the idea of Chansey, but at one point, I did look through a list of all the pokemon. I might have just selected randomly from there.

Stewie is also pretty clear in my mind. And so is massive, except for this nagging suspicion based on the fact that he seems extremely unwilling to ever put a vote on shadyforce.

From my point of view, here's the most likely pairing in order of most to least suspicious:

Shadyforce/Fletcher
Shadyforce/Massive
Stewie/Fletcher
Shadyforce/Stewie
Fletcher/Massive
Stewie/Massive

Cam

[mathcam]

Hey! We're the most-posted-in mini ever. Someone might have already pointed this out, but perhaps not.

Cam

[mathcam]

True, but it's still rather unlikely.

Mole, any chance you're following the game?

Cam

[mathcam]

That was humorous.

I don't think I've ever been put on a guilt trip for a wrong lynch before...

Cam

[mathcam]

Massive, your ability was one-shot, right? Just so I don't spend a long time thinking about what to do and then have it not matter.

Cam

[mathcam]

I feel like I made this a topic when Maverick died, and I feel like someone gave me an answer that was good enough for me. I'll have to check back on what it was.

Cam

[mathcam]

It's also quite likely the game's over. If so, I can't believe Stewie and Fletcher hoodwinked us like that. Maybe there were only 2 team rocket to start with?

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[mathcam]

Oh yeah, you wanted to lynch Fletcher, didn't you? Ummm....



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[mathcam]

I've emailed mole, though I haven't received a response. Hopefully he'll be returning soon.

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[mathcam]

Wait, so shady's still alive? Is it day? night? My world is upside-down.

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[mathcam]

Do we have the revelation of what Abra does? Or just the "Abra tried to spirit Maverick away, but the Rockets were too fast for him" quote. Apparently, it applies to lynching. I guess I rescind believeing Shadyforce now. He certainly must have known this was going to happen, and if he were a townie, why wouldn't he have told us?

Cam

[mathcam]

Am I missing something, or didn't shady just use Abra to escape the lynch?

Cam

[mathcam]

shady, do you know if it's still daytime? If we get our votes back? If we can lynch again? I'll email mole, but just in case it takes a while, you could probably answer without fearing mod vengeance.

Cam

[mathcam]

Good enough for me. There's certainly no harm in sending in night choices, then.

Cam

[mathcam]

Just got this email from mole:

Sorry about that!

It's night again, but you can't target shadyforce, or vote for him tomorrow.

So let's get night choices in!

Cam

[mathcam]

I think emailing mole night choices might be a good idea. That ought to motivate him to get his butt back here.

Cam

[mathcam]

Hm, I protected massive too. I wonder what that means...

Cam

[mathcam]

Yup, I suppose the only thing to do now is wait for input from shadyforce and Fletcher.

Cam

[mathcam]

Um, uh...I mean Fletcher, then.

Cam

[mathcam]

Diglett - also a doc. I protected massive and Stewie last night. If it matters, Chancy protected massive, and Diglett protected Stewie.

Cam

[mathcam]

Stewie, what makes you think Psyduck would be naive? Does anyone have a Nidoran?

Cam

[mathcam]

Okay, let's not let this game die (any more).

There's three of us posting and one of us alive. The task before us is to decide whether shadyforce is guilty or innocent. One thing in favor of his guilt is the fact that the two of you have not lynched me. Thus, you are not mafia together, or you are really lazy mafia.

If I know that I'm not mafia, and []both[/i] of you aren't mafia, that means Shadyforce must be....if there's 2 mafia left. If there's one mafia left, and we kill shadyforce, the game is still possibly in good shape (but maybe not). Actually, it's in the same shape as if shadyforce and someone else are both mafia.

I don't see us having any other choice other than lynching shadyforce again. We do have that option, right?

Cam

[mathcam]

Just checked my email from mole. We can

not

lynch shadyforce today. So much for that plan.

Cam

[mathcam]

Actually, the more I think about it, the more horrible lynching is. If we take for granted that shady's evil, he'll probably get a night choice tonight. If we kill someone today, that means we lose.

I think I'm right about this, but I'll hold off the vote for now.

Cam

[mathcam]

Yeah, but the things is that our protections just haven't worked very well, have they? I protected massive last night, and he still bit the big one. So if we kill someone, all it would take is one failed protection for it to be down to 2, in which case the mafia clearly wins.

Cam

[mathcam]

Your previous post. My Bulbosaur is not a doc, Stewie, it's a blocker. And it has yet to evolve, so I still have no idea what's going on. I don't think I've had

any

of my Pokemon evolve...have you?

I protected you because I thought you were going to protect Fletcher.

We already know of a doc that didn't work...Maverick was not saved by his Abra.

Yeah, I got confused about which Pokemon I got first, but even if I was mafia, there's no reason for me to lie about it.

Cam

[mathcam]

Oh, plus: If I were mafia, I could have won by bolding "Vote: Stewie" instead of just leaving it unbolded.

Cam

[mathcam]

I'm not sure what to think. If Shady's the last evil by himself, then we have to no lynch. If there's multiple evil left, then either the game should be over, or the evil is on different teams. If Shady's in fact innocent, then no lynch still seems strong.

Can anyone think of a reason/secenario why/where we

shouldn't[/]i no lynch?

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[mathcam]

Okay, I see your point, Stewie. If (say, frm my point of view), Shadyforce and Fletcher are evil

together

, then no lynch auto-loses, whereas maybe if we lynch Fletcher, we can stop shady's night kill and get him tomorrow.

Jeez. that's a rough decision. So the big question is whether or not the evil is on the same team or not, which has been a major issue the whole game. The three night kills in one makes me think multiple killers, but the fact that only happened once might relegate this to a side phenomena. I think in the vast majority of the cases, though, no lynch has to be the right call.

I'm going no lynch unless you say something clever, Stewie.

Cam

[mathcam]

Mole!!!!!!

Stewie, just waiting on you. If you really think the current scenario is one which would make no lynch bad, now would be a good time to tell me this.

Cam

[mathcam]

Vote: No lynch

for what it's worth.

Let's get in those night choices!

Cam

[mathcam]

Ditto.

Cam

[mathcam]

You bastards! Go town!

Cam

[mathcam]

Unfortunately for him, mathcam kept blocking his captures.

Mwa ha ha...oh wait, I lost.

Yeah, I was pretty confident that Stewie was good, and wasn't sure about Fletcher, so couldn't really lynch him. I'm curious about Shady too...an SK, or just a gruff and violent townie?

Except for the lags, mole, this was a very fun game. Thanks a bunch.

Cam

[mathcam]

Then woohoo! You were evil!

So yeah, what was the doc situation? They never seemed to work. Was it that Chance really was totally useless? If so, then it wouldn't have mattered if Stewie and I lynched Fletcher yesterday, right? We probably couldn't have stopped shady from killing us. I'm just looking for a little consolation here.

Cam

[mathcam]

I see, so Chansey was a regular doc, it just wasn't effective against Scyther. Okay. So what was up with the 3 kills on one night?

Cam

[mathcam]

I protected Fletcher (and Stewie) last night, if that helps.

Oh and I never lied in the game.

You never claimed to not be evil? I find that hard to believe.

Yeah, I feel a little silly for having completely dismissed the possibility of a serial killer. I would have bet it was either 3 independent rockets, 2 independent rockets, or a team of 2 or 3 rockets.

Cam

[mathcam]

Sounded like that to me, too"

Scyther was added to the list to balance the effects of everyone picking a doctor-type power early in the game, but by the end when there were only one or two players doing the protection he became far too powerful.

Cam