Mini 1346: Flavorless Mafia - GAME OVER

[FatCat]

I thought Junpei's first post was absolutely fine, I have no idea what on earth you find so suspicious about it, your overreaction to such a simple post is bizarre.

I was not being a sheep, or trying to "buddy" you, I simply found Psyche's initial post very suspect, and I don't particularly believe the reaction gauging line he's claiming. If he is a townie, trying to reaction gauge with a very suspicious first post, then coming out and saying the person who accused him of being suspicious is a possible mafia, is a line that makes literally zero sense.

DLG, I find your overreaction to Junpei's first post, and how easily Psyche won you over with poor logic, all to be quite bizarre.

[farside22]

With 8/9 players confirmed, Day 1 is now open.

What no PM saying day 1 start?!?!?!?!!?

Cuz I can.

Watch me post again even though I said I wouldn't.

Like a boss.

You enjoy rocking the boat, don't you?

Psyche: What is your logic behind not posting before something happens, and what is your logic for saying this is your intention and then immediately defecting?

seriously?

lolgic

pretty much this in a nutshell.

Can we say for sure that Psyche is mafia? His first post was stupid, but it would be a stupid post no matter if he was a townie or a mafia.

Can you please explain if you felt this way why you voted for him in the first place?
Then when you explain that please explain below:

Horrendous logic. Psyche is a nailed-on Mafia.

Pretty easy day 1.

What about the logic was horrendous, when you stated you found the post stupid to begin with?

vote: FatCat

[FatCat]

With 8/9 players confirmed, Day 1 is now open.

What no PM saying day 1 start?!?!?!?!!?

Cuz I can.

Watch me post again even though I said I wouldn't.

Like a boss.

You enjoy rocking the boat, don't you?

Psyche: What is your logic behind not posting before something happens, and what is your logic for saying this is your intention and then immediately defecting?

seriously?

lolgic

pretty much this in a nutshell.

Can we say for sure that Psyche is mafia? His first post was stupid, but it would be a stupid post no matter if he was a townie or a mafia.

Can you please explain if you felt this way why you voted for him in the first place?
Then when you explain that please explain below:

Horrendous logic. Psyche is a nailed-on Mafia.

Pretty easy day 1.

What about the logic was horrendous, when you stated you found the post stupid to begin with?

vote: FatCat

Yo! I thought the post below was poor logic.

@ Junpei
Not before just something happens, something

scummy

. Which means he doesn't want to slip up, and he doesn't want to be involved in making that something scummy happen. Self preserving and not wanting to scumhunt.

What's your rationale for not voting scum?

@ Ellibereth
Agreed. Vote, please?

@ Deltabacon
Why RVS? Scum's been found. Help lynch him.

You totally need some third-order theory of mind. This is terrible.
Iwonder if you honestly think I was behaving authentically and with the intentions you ascribed on me.
By the way, do you?

My play up to now has been to end the RVS with the first post of the game. Plan successful.

DLG's response kinda reads as over-acting, like he took a hardball stance on my post JUST to take a hardball stance on my post and look good doing it. It's not a convincing performance because it's overdone.

Let's start there. DLG seems like a pretty reactive person, right?

vote DLG

. OMGUS, mayne.

And Junpei's post reminds me of a splashing magikarp...

My reasons why are outlined below.

I thought Junpei's first post was absolutely fine, I have no idea what on earth you find so suspicious about it, your overreaction to such a simple post is bizarre.

I was not being a sheep, or trying to "buddy" you, I simply found Psyche's initial post very suspect, and I don't particularly believe the reaction gauging line he's claiming. If he is a townie, trying to reaction gauge with a very suspicious first post, then coming out and saying the person who accused him of being suspicious is a possible mafia, is a line that makes literally zero sense.

DLG, I find your overreaction to Junpei's first post, and how easily Psyche won you over with poor logic, all to be quite bizarre.

I hope this is clear to you.

[farside22]

I thought Junpei's first post was absolutely fine, I have no idea what on earth you find so suspicious about it, your overreaction to such a simple post is bizarre.

I was not being a sheep, or trying to "buddy" you, I simply found Psyche's initial post very suspect, and I don't particularly believe the reaction gauging line he's claiming. If he is a townie, trying to reaction gauge with a very suspicious first post, then coming out and saying the person who accused him of being suspicious is a possible mafia, is a line that makes literally zero sense.

DLG, I find your overreaction to Junpei's first post, and how easily Psyche won you over with poor logic, all to be quite bizarre.

So your saying that you found him scummy, then call him stupid, then saying the post is horrendous and the only reason you have is because you don't believe he was reaction gauging.
Now we have it as he OMGUS a person with a reason but you saw it making no sense.
Did you even read his reasoning there? Did you disagree with his reasoning, if so why?
Then explain why it was bizaree in more words.

[FatCat]

I think I have explained in enough words, thank you very much.

[farside22]

By the way I found Junpei's first post was horrible, if you read the quote-palozza I put in there.
1) Junpei is no newbie. If I was a betting person I'm sure this is not the first game he saw someone do a gambit to make conversation.
2) The questions he ask were pretty bland and stupid. It's like asking question to just ask them when you already know an answer.

His second post pretty much is nothing exciting there either.

@Junpei: Have you ever seen a player post reaction post before?

I think I have explained in enough words, thank you very much.

No you haven't.

[farside22]

And I lost FC where he doesn't answer any of my questions I asked in post #28.
Man if I caught scum this early I want a prize.

[DLG]

I thought Junpei's first post was absolutely fine, I have no idea what on earth you find so suspicious about it, your overreaction to such a simple post is bizarre.

I was not being a sheep, or trying to "buddy" you, I simply found Psyche's initial post very suspect, and I don't particularly believe the reaction gauging line he's claiming. If he is a townie, trying to reaction gauge with a very suspicious first post, then coming out and saying the person who accused him of being suspicious is a possible mafia, is a line that makes literally zero sense.

DLG, I find your overreaction to Junpei's first post, and how easily Psyche won you over with poor logic, all to be quite bizarre.

I thought I made it clear what was off about Junpei's first post. It looked like an attempt to show off his "ultra-townieness" rather than a more natural reaction of voting Psyche or dinging at me for the sudden jump on Psyche.

Pretty much what farside22 just said.

I know I clearly said it wasn't the logic in Psyche's post that won me over. You don't get to try to spin it back to that.

So I'm clear, is bizzare scummy?

Early reads:
farside22 - Town, scum hunting for real
Psyche - Town, explained earlier
Ellibereth - null but on the Town side for not jumping the easy Psyche wagon
Junpei - null but on the scummy side for that first post, second post was an improvement as it looked like a real question
FatCat - Scum, looks like he tried to sheep the Psyche vote and got twisted around the axle in the crossfire
Deltabacon - Scum for avoiding game content, but being willing to answer an out of game question directed at him

UNVOTE: Junpei
VOTE: FatCat

I can dig this wagon. Make it happen, people.

[Junpei]

I was not being a sheep, or trying to "buddy" you, I simply found Psyche's initial post very suspect, and I don't particularly believe the reaction gauging line he's claiming. If he is a townie, trying to reaction gauge with a very suspicious first post, then coming out and saying the person who accused him of being suspicious is a possible mafia, is a line that makes literally zero sense.

This is consistent with what he said earlier...

Simply found Psyche's first post very suspect

Don't believe the reaction gauging line he's claiming

Have a seen a reaction test before? Yeah I have, I've even done them, but there wasn't anything else to say; I was pretty sure he'd say something like he did, but there was a chance it was a legitimate test so I figured I'd ask. I've recently asked for more info on the motive behind the post... we'll see what Psyche says.

I must have missed the sheeping case on FatCat, could you explain it?

[farside22]

@Junpei: What about the post where FC called the post from Psyche stupid and null? What did you think about FC's reason's for not believing the reaction gauging?

[FatCat]

To sum up events so far:-

Psyche:

I be no posting till one you dummies screws up!

DLG:

Huh? You be suspicious Psyche!!

Fatcat:

Psyche's post was indeed suspicious.

Psyche:

Nah, U hear me wrong! I be reaction-gauging dummies! But DLG looks bad cos he attacked me for my dumb post!

DLG:

You be reaction gauging? Oh now I see, sweet play! You be cool.

Fatcat:

How does it make sense for Psyche to post a reaction gauging post and then vote for the person who reacts exactly as a townie should.

Farcry:

Hummm!!!? How Psyche not logical! I vote for Fatcat! Explain, explain, explain!

Fatcat:

I've already explained.

Farcry:

I be scum-hunter, yahooo!!!

DLG:

He be bandwagoning Psyche! (I was second to vote for Psyche) Psyche now my cool friend, Fatcat be mafia! He be caught in crossfire!

Bravo to the three of you, bravo.

DLG, saying I was sheeping and bandwagoning because I voted for Psyche second makes absolutely zero sense. Also saying I was "buddying" with you because I shared your sound logic (at the time) that Psyche was acting suspicious is absolute BS. You're really playing an illogical game, and you're looking very, very mafia at the moment.

UNVOTE: Psyche
VOTE: DLG

[farside22]

The post above really makes me enjoy my vote more.
Still dodges questions asked and doesn't answer them, then makes slapstick remarks that is untrue and shorted to make people look worse then they are and finally we have OMGUS to top if off.

[Junpei]

Hm.

FatCat: Why did you call Psyche's stupidity in his first post null? No more dodging the question, and your dialogue is heavily bias and isn't worth anything.

I'd vote you but then you'd be at L-1.

Farside: As for FatCat's suspicion of Psyche's reasoning on the reaction test, I see his point of view and don't view that in particular as suspicious. If you read Psyche's post, you can see the perspectives which might view it as a response which he knew he'd have to give and wasn't too worried about and one which is seriously backtracking.

Still can't find the sheeping claim.

[Junpei]

lolgic

DLG: How is this slot I quoted null-town when Deltabacon is scum for avoiding game content by posting but not posting anything which could be read as any alignment? That's exactly what Ellibereth did here.

[Psyche]

This is going wonderfully!

I've been so bored — I'm glad you guys are active. Wallpost coming...

[farside22]

Hm.

FatCat: Why did you call Psyche's stupidity in his first post null? No more dodging the question, and your dialogue is heavily bias and isn't worth anything.

I'd vote you but then you'd be at L-1.

Farside: As for FatCat's suspicion of Psyche's reasoning on the reaction test, I see his point of view and don't view that in particular as suspicious. If you read Psyche's post, you can see the perspectives which might view it as a response which he knew he'd have to give and wasn't too worried about and one which is seriously backtracking.

Still can't find the sheeping claim.

Maybe it's seeing too much gambiting lately, but I saw more of the first and none of the second from his post.
Can you explain how it's seriously backtracking from someone who see too much gambiting?

[FatCat]

@ Junpei
Not before just something happens, something

scummy

. Which means he doesn't want to slip up, and he doesn't want to be involved in making that something scummy happen. Self preserving and not wanting to scumhunt.

What's your rationale for not voting scum?

@ Ellibereth
Agreed. Vote, please?

@ Deltabacon
Why RVS? Scum's been found. Help lynch him.

Red, but I dont follow football that much.

Come on you reds. Your a good man in my eyes.

@ Junpei
Not before just something happens, something

scummy

. Which means he doesn't want to slip up, and he doesn't want to be involved in making that something scummy happen. Self preserving and not wanting to scumhunt.

What's your rationale for not voting scum?

@ Ellibereth
Agreed. Vote, please?

@ Deltabacon
Why RVS? Scum's been found. Help lynch him.

Can we say for sure that Psyche is mafia? His first post was stupid, but it would be a stupid post no matter if he was a townie or a mafia.

Hi Junpei,

I never said that Psyche's stupidity in his first post was null. I voted for him in my first post, then DLG said as a reply to Deltabacon "why vote for anyone else, scum's been found." ie. Psyche

I replied saying, "can we be sure Psyche's mafia, it would be a stupid post from mafia and a town". I never said it's "null", I think it's more heavily weighted towards mafia, I think anything that seems suspicious or illogical, is always more weighted towards mafia. I just asked can we be sure of Psyche's guilt, because at the time DLG seemed to be very strongly of the opinion we could. If you read the above quotes, you can see, it's all there in black and white.

My saying that it would be a stupid post for both a mafia and a town seems to have caused a lot of confusion, and I really hope this clears up some of the confusion which you and Farside have.

[Junpei]

Farside:

@ Junpei
Not before just something happens, something

scummy

. Which means he doesn't want to slip up, and he doesn't want to be involved in making that something scummy happen. Self preserving and not wanting to scumhunt.

What's your rationale for not voting scum?

@ Ellibereth
Agreed. Vote, please?

@ Deltabacon
Why RVS? Scum's been found. Help lynch him.

You totally need some third-order theory of mind. This is terrible.

Iwonder if you honestly think I was behaving authentically and with the intentions you ascribed on me.
By the way, do you?

My play up to now has been to end the RVS with the first post of the game. Plan successful.

DLG's response kinda reads as over-acting, like he took a hardball stance on my post JUST to take a hardball stance on my post and look good doing it. It's not a convincing performance because it's overdone.

Let's start there. DLG seems like a pretty reactive person, right?

vote DLG

. OMGUS, mayne.

And Junpei's post reminds me of a splashing magikarp...

Underlined would be read as scum trying to joke out of a position saying "You thought I was serious?"
Italics is more excuses
Second underline is attacking the person who attacked him for what we're saying he's backtracking from.

I mean, when I lay it out like this it looks pretty convincing, but I still think that it is just an early game reaction test that he backed out of once he found something.

FatCat's 41 is very sufficient in my opinion, consider my suspicion dropped for now.

[FatCat]

OK my reads so far:-

Psyche-

Your lines so far have been weird, but there's a good chance you're a townie playing around with a weird gambit

Farcry-

To be honest, you're using logic, although logic has misguided you to suspect me, I still think you're a townie and I definitely haven't helped my case by being short with you and posting the mocking dialogue.

Junpei

- You had a chance to make it L-1 against me, and didn't, in fact you did the opposite, made it clear to me I had to explain myself better instead of squabbling with Farcry, now that I have you're saying I look innocent. This in my eyes makes it 100% certain that you're a townie.

DGM-

Nailed on mafia. Being illogical and telling lies. Saying I was sheeping and trying to buddy him, when I simply was the second person to vote for Psyche, after Psyche posted a VERY suspect post.

[farside22]

@FC: Have you played mafia before anywhere or here that is complete? How many stupid scum have you seen before in a game? If any game please link them.

[Psyche]

You totally need some third-order theory of mind. This is terrible. 
Iwonder if you honestly think I was behaving authentically and with the intentions you ascribed on me. 
By the way, do you?

My play up to now has been to end the RVS with the first post of the game. Plan successful.

DLG's response kinda reads as over-acting, like he took a hardball stance on my post JUST to take a hardball stance on my post and look good doing it. It's not a convincing performance because it's overdone.

Let's start there. DLG seems like a pretty reactive person, right? vote DLG. OMGUS, mayne.

And Junpei's post reminds me of a splashing magikarp...

So, you want to do some scumhunting?  Good deal.

You're obviously not a derpwad; I've never thought so.  So, I have no interest in you pretending to be one and being flippant while doing so.  The intentions I ascribed to your post were logical.

I'll accept you did it intentionally to shove out of RVS.  It's a silly ploy, in my books, but to each his own.  And, if it worked, as it did, good on you.

I'm not sure what you mean about Junpei's post, but it did strike me as overly even-handed.  Like a display of just how serious he is to [mocking voice] get to the bottom of all this goshdarn business. [/mocking voice]

UNVOTE: Psyche
VOTE: Junpei

Very reactive, indeed! No, this does quite allay my suspicions. I'll want to go into detail on this, and to push harder, in my next post.

...

So, you want to do some scumhunting?  Good deal.

You're obviously not a derpwad; I've never thought so.  So, I have no interest in you pretending to be one and being flippant while doing so.  The intentions I ascribed to your post were logical.

I'll accept you did it intentionally to shove out of RVS.  It's a silly ploy, in my books, but to each his own.  And, if it worked, as it did, good on you.

I'm not sure what you mean about Junpei's post, but it did strike me as overly even-handed.  Like a display of just how serious he is to [mocking voice] get to the bottom of all this goshdarn business. [/mocking voice]

UNVOTE: Psyche
VOTE: Junpei

Well sir, you were won over quite easily.

I must remember Psyche's line for real-life situations as it seems to be quite an effective one.

"Oh what I said just offended you?  Ignore it...I was just reaction-gauging."

Two things wrong here:
- I never even implied that I wanted any aspect of my posts to be ignored.
- I was very transparent in my frivolity. I mean, super-transparent. I even evoked a lolful meme. >.> Are you telling me that you didn't catch that?

(inb4 people don't believe my obviously reaction-fielding post wasn't just me being horridly unintelligent...)

Alright, all reaction tests must have purpose and intention. Lets hear about those things for this test and it better be beyond "to catch scum". What reactions were you specifically looking for?

That looks like a normative assertion, Junpei, not a descriptive one. Reaction tests can very easily not have an explicit purpose (or intention, which is the same thing as a purpose...) and still be performed productively.

Besides, my goal was reaction-fielding, not reaction-testing. Those are pretty similar phrases, but one's more lax. 

My purpose:
To end the RVS by forcing players to seriously appraise and form opinions about a post that is so salient that it cannot be ignored!
The result of this event would lead to other posts forcing players to seriously appraise and form opinions!
And so on...Until someone dies.

Oh, and I thought it would be fun.

FatCat seems weird, but reading comprehension and Scum Theory quality aren't measures of scumminess. I'll probably have to point out the problems in his thinking nonetheless...

Next post! A better DLG case! A critique of "others", especially FatCat!

Onward!

[Junpei]

OK my reads so far:-

Psyche-

Your lines so far have been weird, but there's a good chance you're a townie playing around with a weird gambit

Farcry-

To be honest, you're using logic, although logic has misguided you to suspect me, I still think you're a townie and I definitely haven't helped my case by being short with you and posting the mocking dialogue.

Junpei

- You had a chance to make it L-1 against me, and didn't, in fact you did the opposite, made it clear to me I had to explain myself better instead of squabbling with Farcry, now that I have you're saying I look innocent. This in my eyes makes it 100% certain that you're a townie.

DGM-

Nailed on mafia. Being illogical and telling lies. Saying I was sheeping and trying to buddy him, when I simply was the second person to vote for Psyche, after Psyche posted a VERY suspect post.

Was Farside being illogical by thinking you were scum? Was Farside telling lies by calling you scum?

Farside: Why did you want to see the interpretation of Psyche's post? For fun? Also I keep typing your name in as "farcry", so if I accidentally do that in the future, no hard feelings.

[farside22]

Also before I forget thank you to Junpei, I can't say I really see it that way but the underlining makes it a bit more understandable.

unvote

I'm still not a fan of FC's lack of explaining himself well. some of the things he says is like buzz words. Like calling a person bizarre really doesn't explain much to me or saying that DLG is overreacting without a good explanation. I really dislike when people dodge questions that ask for more reasoning. It shouldn't be difficult to put into words something you see and why it bothers you or comes off scummy.

Farside: Why did you want to see the interpretation of Psyche's post? For fun? Also I keep typing your name in as "farcry", so if I accidentally do that in the future, no hard feelings.

No, I just didn't see the backtracking you were referring to.
Not a fan of the new nickname tbh.

[farside22]

lolgic

DLG: How is this slot I quoted null-town when Deltabacon is scum for avoiding game content by posting but not posting anything which could be read as any alignment? That's exactly what Ellibereth did here.

On reread a bit I would like an answer from DLG as well on this question.

[FatCat]

@Farside.

I've played games before but not here. Yes, I've seen many stupid plays by both townies and mafia. Except where I play it they're called villagers and werewolves It's not on a mafia/werewolf only forum though, so we take it a little less seriously, it's more about the fun than the competitiveness.

I'd prefer not to link to the games if that is OK with you, because if I did you'd easily be able to get my real name and location, and I'd prefer for that not to be disclosed for paranoia reasons

@Psyche. You may have thought you were "transparent in your frivolity", as you so delicately put it. But the reality is, I don't know you from Adam. I thought it was very possible you were just a stupid guy acting stupid. But now that I realize that you are a powerhouse intellect and wordsmith, and I am a lowly man with poor reading comprehension skills, it should be more transparent to me in the future when you're being frivolous.

@Junpei. Nah she wasn't, when I took a step back it became obvious her main issue was over the confusion with the whole "it would be stupid for a townie or mafia to say that" thing. It was all a big Hoo Ha over nothing.