Open 419 Diffusion of Power - Game Over

[Om of the Nom]

So you'd rather go for me instead of going for your already non-random vote which you had on VM?
You'd rather push a policy lynch instead of a potential scum lynch.

Are you fucking serious?
VOTE: IceGuy

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Vote Count

Voidedmafia - 3(FuDuzn, Ser Arthur Dayne, Scott Brosius)
absta101 - 2(Venmar, Voidedmafia)
drmyshotgun - 1(absta101)
2birds1stone - 1(Malakittens)
Ser Arthur Dayne - 1(2birds1stone)
Malakittens - 1(drmyshotgun)
Om of the Nom - 1(IceGuy)
IceGuy - 1(Om of the Nom)

13 alive means 7 to lynch.

[IceGuy]

Are you fucking serious?

Maybe I am, maybe I'm not.

[Om of the Nom]

Now I'm tempted to try and push a policy lynch on you.

[IceGuy]

Feel free to.

[DarthYoshi]

Hi, I'm here.

Mod, I don't think I'm listed in the OP roster, even though I received a role PM

Will read and have content later today. Sorry for missing the opening couple of days, I was insanely busy with work.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Fixed.

[absta101]

Okay i'll try getting into this game.
Page 1 stinks. Just shity discussion on claiming strategy.
Page 3 & 4 consists of IceKid and Omnom fucking around.
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@IceMan

The case on Voided is what?
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@Ser

You sheeping Ice? Do you actually find Voided scummy? If yes, what is scummy about him?
Post #32 doesn't look good to me.
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@Om of the motherf**king nom

(I always read your name like this for some reason).

I read the thread.

Nah, not reading the claim discussion.

You were part of it at one point.
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@Scott

Voided's idea is bad and the fact that he claims he answered the question about how doc+cops with simultaneous nights would even know such a thing, is weird.

This is such a bad reason to vote. The ability of someone to conjure up ideas has zero correlation with their alignment.
I'm interested, what do you think of this idea?

Cops should claim the day there night's coming up (e.g., N1 cop should claim right now, N2 cop should claim tomorrow, etc.)

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@Venmar

- Read the thread. This whole claiming thing is the only thing we are talking about.

Wouldn't you rather we scumhunt?
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VOTE: Ser Arthur Doyle

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

You sheeping Ice? Do you actually find Voided scummy? If yes, what is scummy about him?
Post #32 doesn't look good to me.

Meh. That vote was semi-serious, and it was a lot better than my completely random vote on Venmar. And yes, I do find Voided scummy for suggesting an anti-town idea that he tried to wrap with gold. If he would've been called out upon it, he could've always backtracked and said "oh well, I was just throwing suggestions out there; at least I'm being productive."

[Venmar]

You sheeping Ice? Do you actually find Voided scummy? If yes, what is scummy about him?
Post #32 doesn't look good to me.

Meh. That vote was semi-serious, and it was a lot better than my completely random vote on Venmar. And yes, I do find Voided scummy for suggesting an anti-town idea that he tried to wrap with gold. If he would've been called out upon it, he could've always backtracked and said "oh well, I was just throwing suggestions out there; at least I'm being productive."

- Lets not forget this was during the very first stages of the game. We have only recently established the possible outcomes for all the claims and how it was a bad idea to claim before the night. I think on Voided's part it was simply a suggestion of a plan that he proposed and it was kind of quickly proven to be quite and very ineffective. The fact that Voided didn't really push the plan down our throats or really push it forward is a townie thing to do. Though i do agree it was a bad plan, i just don't think Voided should get lynched for that alone.

- Also, lets not forget that THIS, is a NEW Open setup, so this is the first game of it. It hasn't been played before, so we don't know what theories and what plans and strategies work and which don't work. I think with the ideas that we have come up with in this thread regarding claiming situations in this setup are where we decide what is good and what is bad in general, for the setup. I hope i explained that well, i am not sure lol. Voided's idea just, i guess, turned out to be one of those bad ones and i don't blame him for it. If this was a largely played setup however and Voided's idea was badly looked upon, i would go with your guys's ideas and probably support the lynch, but in this situation i do not.

- Then again lets not forget that this is only Day 1 and we are working off of very little fumes. I suggest we go away from this claiming discussion and get to real scumhunting rather than just some rather random discussion. That said, i will need to reread the thread to pick up on some things but i encourage all others to do the same. Voided is still not a bad target should all else fail however, and i think is worth keeping an eye on.

- Also, lets let Voided get in here and defend himself before we push any real wagons or votes on him.

[IceGuy]

I don't have a problem with bad plans. I have a problems with bad plans coming from people who should know better. Especially when those plans have a glaring mistake and are based on hoping people read it, don't realize the flaw, and claim fast. Even more so when, after the plan being ripped to shreds, they keep posting stuff like "if you're not an N1 cop, don't claim", implying they want N1 cops to claim so they can just kill them off immediately.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Voidedmafia

[FuDuzn]

Just so I am clear, Iceguy, were you voting Om just out of frustration? You hinted that it may have been for a deeper reason.

Also Ice, you seem to be ignoring what Venmar is saying. We all pretty much agree it is a bad plan, but do you really think his intent was to pull a fast one on the town?
UNVOTE:

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

The fact that Voided didn't really push the plan down our throats or really push it forward is a townie thing to do.

What wut? Townies are more likely to push for an idea because they genuinley and strongly believe in it, so they try explaning their side and their POV. While scum are more likely to drop things because they don't wanna gain too much attention or look awkward.

If this was a largely played setup however and Voided's idea was badly looked upon, i would go with your guys's ideas and probably support the lynch, but in this situation i do not.

Wait wut? Why would a scum try to throw out a bad idea that can potentially turn anti-town in an already known setup, where they can be called upon it right away? I'm saying the best place to do it is in a new setup, where they are prone to get away with it.

I suggest we go away from this claiming discussion and get to real scumhunting rather than just some rather random discussion

Okay, going by the antonym of "real" is "fake", how is this fake-scumhunting? And what

is

real-scumhunting? Also, how is this "random" discussion.

I think your post is a good case

against

Voided. Are you secretly a Voided alt?

[IceGuy]

Just so I am clear, Iceguy, were you voting Om just out of frustration? You hinted that it may have been for a deeper reason.

Mostly out of frustration, but also to see how he'd act. While first gut instinct is that he reacted scummy, I'll probably pull up meta to check whether this was typical for him.

Also Ice, you seem to be ignoring what Venmar is saying. We all pretty much agree it is a bad plan, but do you really think his intent was to pull a fast one on the town?

I'm not ignoring it - I'm disagreeing with it. And yes, I really believe he was trying to fool town.

[FuDuzn]

I have played a few games with Om as of late, he seems to be lurky in all of them. But he also mentions that he only does it as town in every game as well(same as he did here). It has become more of a null tell for me, but tbf he has been town in the aforementioned games.

And Dayne, he was called out on it and he defended his reasoning somewhat. I was kind of prodding Ice about it as well, why do you think his intent was scummy?

I guess right now I am weary of either Iceguy or Dayne trying to turn a bad idea into a clearly scum idea. I wanted to keep my vote on Voided as this dynamic was explored, and to keep pressure on Voided, but I feel like we are in the early stages of manipulation here.
VOTE: Dayne
I would tend to think scum would be more likely to sheep a townie who is unknowingly pushing for a mislynch then to be the one to aggressively push for one themselves.

[IceGuy]

I have played a few games with Om as of late, he seems to be lurky in all of them. But he also mentions that he only does it as town in every game as well(same as he did here). It has become more of a null tell for me, but tbf he has been town in the aforementioned games.

Not referring to lurking, referring to the almost OMGUS vote and attack upon being voted.

I was kind of prodding Ice about it as well, why do you think his intent was scummy?

Already stated. Town proposes a plan and explains it, then drops it after being explained why it's a bad idea if it was done in a clear and obvious manner. Scum keeps pushing the plan over and over again in the hopes of a townie not paying attention to claim. And then there's the issue of Voided not exactly being a newbie.

[Venmar]

The fact that Voided didn't really push the plan down our throats or really push it forward is a townie thing to do.

What wut? Townies are more likely to push for an idea because they genuinley and strongly believe in it, so they try explaning their side and their POV. While scum are more likely to drop things because they don't wanna gain too much attention or look awkward.

- This is actually true, so fair enough. However i think that scum are more likely in some situations push ideas for lynches or bad plans to manipulate the town into doing something that would lead to something not benefiting the town. The fact that Voided did not push his bad plan too much is a townie thing. If he pushed it more than he did, i could see it as scum trying to lead us in the wrong direction, but seeing it was a bad plan and not pushing it is a good thing.

- Just curious, you think it would be a good or townie thing should have Voided pushed his bad plan? You know, he is trying to make us believe in a bad plan but you would say he is townie because he believes in it. True or no?

If this was a largely played setup however and Voided's idea was badly looked upon, i would go with your guys's ideas and probably support the lynch, but in this situation i do not.

Wait wut? Why would a scum try to throw out a bad idea that can potentially turn anti-town in an already known setup, where they can be called upon it right away? I'm saying the best place to do it is in a new setup, where they are prone to get away with it.

- This is also true, scum are more likely to get away with bad plans or ideas in a new setup that is not well known yet. I also think though that because it is new, not every idea or strategy should be looked down upon at the quickest of glances, because we might not know yet if they are a good or not not. Kind of like here where Voided posted his idea and we proved him wrong with the bad chances and scum claiming a doctor or cop, etc.

I suggest we go away from this claiming discussion and get to real scumhunting rather than just some rather random discussion

Okay, going by the antonym of "real" is "fake", how is this fake-scumhunting? And what

is

real-scumhunting? Also, how is this "random" discussion.

- Well, i didn't really try to say that the claiming discussion we were having was fake, but rather i think scumhunting someone's reactions, behavior, meta, ideas, points, methods, are much better ways of schumhunting than working off of claim ideas and speculation. This is why RVS proves to be useful, because it draws some kinds reactions and behaviors at some point. Also, by random i kind of thought that working off of claiming speculation was kind of random, so i called it random discussion.

I think your post is a good case

against

Voided. Are you secretly a Voided alt?

- No, i am not.

PEdit: I think i saw a couple posts made before this one, i started writing this after Iceguys post #88. Will read those now.

[FuDuzn]

I was aiming that question at Dayne, Iceguy. Since like you said, you already answered it somewhat. But I appreciate the extra explanation.

[Venmar]

I guess right now I am weary of either Iceguy or Dayne

trying to turn a bad idea into a clearly scum idea

. I wanted to keep my vote on Voided as this dynamic was explored, and to keep pressure on Voided, but I feel like we are in the early stages of manipulation here.

- I do agree with this, this is kind of why i am not jumping on Voided because of his bad idea. I think i already stated why what Voided has done with his idea is not particularly scummy, but deserves at the very least to be kept an eye on. I will need to read into Voided's meta and experience to know if this is a kind of idea he would propose, but again i feel like bringing up the point that this is a new setup and knowledge of what idea of procedure is good and bad.

[IceGuy]

Could somebody not voting Voided explain how that:

I would also suggest that, should a cop and doc have the same night, they should both claim

could come from somebody who actually is a cop or a doc?

[Venmar]

I would also suggest that, should a cop and doc have the same night, they should both claim

could come from somebody who actually is a cop or a doc?

- He could be a cop or doctor that works during night 3, so he could possibly want to get the night 1 and night 2 doctors and cops to do their job efficiently. I hope i did make it clear though i don't think Voided is flat out town, just that his bad plan isn't exactly something we should lynch him for ALONE. I am keep an eye on him like i said.

@VoidedMafia

- Get in here and post your ideas on this matter.

[IceGuy]

I would also suggest that, should a cop and doc have the same night, they should both claim

could come from somebody who actually is a cop or a doc?

- He could be a cop or doctor that works during night 3, so he could possibly want to get the night 1 and night 2 doctors and cops to do their job efficiently. I hope i did make it clear though i don't think Voided is flat out town, just that his bad plan isn't exactly something we should lynch him for ALONE. I am keep an eye on him like i said.

No, I mean: How can you from your role PM not immediately see that the whole "claiming only if somebody else with the same night is also present" thing doesn't work because you don't know whether there is such a person?

[Voidedmafia]

It's 3:30 PM, and I don't have time to go through and respond to everything right now. I'll get to it after work.

Post 94 - IceGuy, what does "coming from someone who's not the cop or doc" have to do with the plan I thought up?

P-EDIT: I suppose I was making the assumption that, if a same-night doctor existed, he or she would be willing to sacrifice themselves to ensure a garaunteed cop investigation.

[IceGuy]

Post 94 - IceGuy, what does "coming from someone who's not the cop or doc" have to do with the plan I thought up?

If you were a cop or a doc you'd immediately have noticed your plan is deeply flawed just by reading your role PM.

[Scott Brosius]

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@Scott

Voided's idea is bad and the fact that he claims he answered the question about how doc+cops with simultaneous nights would even know such a thing, is weird.

This is such a bad reason to vote. The ability of someone to conjure up ideas has zero correlation with their alignment.
I'm interested, what do you think of this idea?

Cops should claim the day there night's coming up (e.g., N1 cop should claim right now, N2 cop should claim tomorrow, etc.)

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The pushing of hugely anti-town ideas is a great reason to vote. Especially when it is the only thing of note on page 2.

Cops should not claim the day before.

The fact that Voided didn't really push the plan down our throats or really push it forward is a townie thing to do.

What wut? Townies are more likely to push for an idea because they genuinley and strongly believe in it, so they try explaning their side and their POV. While scum are more likely to drop things because they don't wanna gain too much attention or look awkward.

Agree with this.