NY 151: Playground Mafia (Game Over-Mafia Win!)

[StrangerCoug]

Benmage, I'd respond to every single sentence about me, but nobody wants a wall, so I will summarize the main points here. Anything you want explained in further detail, please speak up.

#2909: Neither you nor HezLucky is in the slightest confirmed town. From now on, I will ignore any post of yours where you defend HezLucky, and I will also ignore any post of yours in which you whine and complain that you are not my #1 town read.

#2911: Why do I think I am still alive? Few other players are pushing that I am the scummiest player. I have caught on, however, that other people think I am scum (or at least an option for it).

As for the other part, I refuse to give you details about what I think is the setup. My 5:1:18 theory is based on the fact that mods shoot for 25%-33% of the game being scum, the Mafia has no specific name, and there were three deaths on nights 3 and 4. That is all the town needs to know of my opinion.

#2912/2913 (which is the same thing): The same statement cannot be both a lie and an opinion. You asked if I agreed that scum target lurkers. I had forgotten that I had disagreed, but the point is that you were asking for an opinion.

Attacking the lurkers is because I felt they were being detrimental to the game and I thought scum was among them. That was justified.

Nothing else in those posts is a scumtell.

#2914: See response to #2911 for the defense to the first point. As to the second, I play hardball. I believe in fighting to the death.

[RachMarie]

I dont have time right now, but will give you my case later.



VOTE: Maxwell


PS Whichever one (Psyche or Maxwell) that does not get lynched I will investigate tonight.

[Psyche]

My vote is not doing any good on hez right now. If anyone wants to get a real wagon going on him though, I'm your man.

Unvote, Vote: FakeGod

Could also go for redFF, but again, not without a real wagon.

You keep prod-dodging and promising reads. If you don't explain your reasoning for voting hez in your next post with so much as a single sentence, I'm voting you.

Responding to benmage in next post.

THIS LOOKS LIKE A BUS.

EXCELLENT.

Unvote, Vote: OGML

I'M WITH YOU IN ROCKLAND

When HezLucky makes this vote, he's choosing to make the OGML wagon equal the Fakegod wagon instead of preferring to lynch the scum that ISN'T a Power Role. And I think that a good-playing scum would probably have a strong preference for a fakegod lynch considering the cast of town power roles currently in the mix. He ends up being one of the very few on the OMGL wagon at the end of the Day.

However, in this post, he's also joining one of the scumwagons rather late (after the two together have amassed 9 votes) and scum motives for this choice may still include
1) stalling a scumlynch by voting for the smaller wagon
2) earning towncred by bussing a scum PR

And then there's the fact that it isn't clear how he reads maxwell's post as bussing. When pressed about this, he deliberately dodges the question and gets really OMGUSy.

And today, he avoids even mentioning this bussing accusation. Maxwell's scumminess is no longer emphasized much at all. Instead, preference is given to my lynch.


And I found no strong towntells from my readthrough on Hez. So I'll keep looking.

[Psyche]

And then there's the fact that Hez never has anything bad/strong to say about any of the confirmed scum this game. At all. He barely ever mentions the one scum he actually voted for. Something smells fishy.

[Benmage]

And then there's the fact that Hez never has anything bad/strong to say about any of the confirmed scum this game. At all. He barely ever mentions the one scum he actually voted for. Something smells fishy.

He's been to busy tunneling on townbenmage.

[Psyche]

Fakegod, Maxwell, or Hezz for scum.

But lets lynch the VT, so LLD can sit in the corner and follow.

 
Hez is town.
 
I really haven't seen much in FakeGod, so I'd like to know why he's scum. 
 
Maxwell is scum.

All LLD has to say about Hez is that he is town, in response to a question...

FakeGod never directly says anything about Hez.

Firestarter is completely silent.

Thoughts

I think there is still strong evidence that Benmage is town, despite the "lynch me."
Looking at LLD's posts I'm seeing her connected to TML, redFF, Hez, and FG.  
It looks like one scumteam from the reveal, safest to assume 6 to begin with, 5 left
...which means the fifth is probably one of the myriad contentless lurkers coasting through this game
14 alive, (up to) three kills again tonight, there is a remote possibility this is mylo

Vote: The Mini-Librarian

Your cop claim stunt was what made me think LLD was town.
Nice trick, scum.

OGML talks more. He connects LLD with Hez, but also with FG, so this post is laced with distancing. 

Starts with TML vote...

OK, that's an explanation that makes sense.  But for future reference, lying as town is bad mmk?

Unvote, Vote: HezLucky

I still think Benmage is town.  Don't give up.  Join me in lynching Hez.

After TML claims, OGML moves here instead of on redff. But this could easily be distancing. OGML doesn't really say much about why Hez is scum at all.

Not knowing who had been (mis)lynched.  The tone of his posts.  My gut is just screaming town.  I also thought he was taking credit for the LLD kill but his vt claim nullifies that point.

Responds to HezLucky's case on Benmage without any hostility at all...
More importantly, Hez Lucky does not respond to OMGL's crappy vote with any hostility at all...

My vote is not doing any good on hez right now.  If anyone wants to get a real wagon going on him though, I'm your man.

Unvote, Vote: FakeGod

Could also go for redFF, but again, not without a real wagon.

And he just lamely stops voting for Hez to bus his buddy. This may be what distancing looks like.

I may switch after investigating other people, but

vote HezLucky

[Benmage]

#2909: Neither you nor HezLucky is in the slightest confirmed town. From now on, I will ignore any post of yours where you defend HezLucky, and I will also ignore any post of yours in which you whine and complain that you are not my #1 town read.

This must be in response to the vig direction. Overreact much?? Yeah ignore my interplay with FakeGod, and my case on OGML.... god forbide you admit how blatantly town I am.

#2911: Why do I think I am still alive? Few other players are pushing that I am the scummiest player. I have caught on, however, that other people think I am scum (or at least an option for it).

Prior to today, you pretty much had zero scrutiny. So i don't buy you're plausibility as a lynch as the reason you are a alive. ANYONE can be lynched. You're alive because:
A: You're scum.
B: Your reads are wrong.

(Z: if B, WAKE THE FUCK UP)

As for the other part, I refuse to give you details about what I think is the setup.

Scuummmmmy.

#2912/2913 (which is the same thing): The same statement cannot be both a lie and an opinion. You asked if I agreed that scum target lurkers. I had forgotten that I had disagreed, but the point is that you were asking for an opinion.

Scum target low hanging fruit and lurkers. ALL THE FUCKING TIME. If you want to disagree because that's what you've been doing. Then go ahead. But it strengthens my point that you are scum, because as an experienced player you should 100% agree with scum targeting lurkers as a viable strategy.

So I will call you illogical and scummy for this.

Attacking the lurkers is because I felt they were being detrimental to the game and I thought scum was among them. That was justified.

There are always scum in lurkers. But there's usually like 1 in 5. So the math game isn't in ones favor. And you were failing to accept certain key notes, primarily regarding myself. Instead you chose stubbornness.

#2914: See response to #2911 for the defense to the first point. As to the second,

I play hardball. I believe in fighting to the death.

Rofl... which would make scum more likely to want to kill you.

But oh right you're scum.

Anything you want explained in further detail, please speak up.

BULLET FOR ME

why i am still a scum suspect of yours? As far as I can recall your suspicions are outdated. Please correct my view. Shit if you think I'm scum so badly... just whispering it these few days is shit. YOU need to be pressing the issue. But thats right. It’s shit.

[Benmage]

All LLD has to say about Hez is that he is town, in response to a question...

And LLD had OGML's slot as neutral.

OGML talks more. He connects LLD with Hez, but also with FG, so this post is laced with distancing. 

Nah all three of the others mentioned are definitely town now. OGML references one scum out of 4 to a flipped scum. Make himself look better when/if FG dies..and gives credence to than attack those town members on viable information. The putting of 1 scum into the pile, makes the attack appear viable. I 100% doubt OGML would look to bus 2 here.

Nope. All 3 town.

And he just lamely stops voting for Hez to bus his buddy. This may be what distancing looks like.

More like selfpreservation for the team. Lose the goon, save the PR.

Stop voting Hez, Pysche he's not todays game.

[Psyche]

SC's a nullread.

Spose Benmage has a point.

[StrangerCoug]

why i am still a scum suspect of yours?

You are more focused on trying to prove that you are better than everyone else than doing proper scumhunting, number one. Number two, I have no reason to trust you when you are constantly defending my scumread.

As far as I can recall your suspicions are outdated.

Show me which of my suspicions are outdated and what posts outdate them.

The rest of your post is a waste of my time.

[Code_X]

Sorry for being useless last few days. I need to re-read dead scums ISOs and look at a few people in isolation.

I'm leaning towards a Maxwell vote at the minute though. Will elaborate when I've re-read. I also need to get around the SC/Benmage argument.

[Benmage]

You are more focused on trying to prove that you are better than everyone else than doing proper scumhunting, number one.

Bullshit. I make a few comments, and you cling to this little piece as if it was the totality of my work.
-FACT, noones been scumhunting as hard as I the last few game days.

Number two, I have no reason to trust you when you are constantly defending my scumread.

So we differ on reads....

And yes I will defend pysche from being mislynched at this pinnacle point in the game. You really think I am buddying here? Or are you referring to me defending Hezz??? Just how many scum are left again?

Show me which of my suspicions are outdated and what posts outdate them.

This is the finale:

THANK YOU.

as far as I know all stated suspicion is prior to this. And this isn't really concurrent anymore. Hence why I say outtdatted. You don't bother with my interaction with recently flipped scum. You stick to old reads, to appear 'consistent'. Yet in all your tunneling I've barely seen you look at much of the playerbase, let alone explain reads...

The only information you've really complained about me, was not answering REALLY fucking obvious questions.. Which as quoted got answered. And you accused me early on of lurking. Which clearly is no longer the case.

You really haven't accussed me much, why keep so much close to the chest? I question why you aren't pressing me more when I've been a scum read of yours for so long. Lots has happened since your early suspicion. If you were earnest in your belief I was scum. You'd be pushing me harder/attempting to enlighten those who don't see what you do. But you aren't. Because you have nothing on me (and you just blow off my legitimate illustrations of town acts). You're coasting, and sheeping. You're caught scum. And you will hang today.

You wanna see how town gets scum lynched. Watch me lynch you.

[Benmage]

The rest of your post is a waste of my time.

Yes better to blow off my points when your caught with your pants down.

Can't explain why scum didn't NK you? (Guess saying it would be against the scum teams WC would be bad aye)

[StrangerCoug]

You are more focused on trying to prove that you are better than everyone else than doing proper scumhunting, number one.

Bullshit. I make a few comments, and you cling to this little piece as if it was the totality of my work.

Did I say you were

EXCLUSIVELY

focused on trying to prove you are better than everyone else while doing

ZERO

scumhunting?

Number two, I have no reason to trust you when you are constantly defending my scumread.

So we differ on reads....

And yes I will defend pysche from being mislynched at this pinnacle point in the game.

The scumread of mine that I'm worried about you defending is HezLucky. Yes, I'm voting Psyche, but I'm second-guessing myself at this point.

The only information you've really complained about me, was not answering REALLY fucking obvious questions.. Which as quoted got answered.

I stopped pushing that when it was answered.

And you accused me early on of lurking. Which clearly is no longer the case.

Lurking in the sense that I've been using this game, that is true. I still get this boasting and noise-making, though.

Now whose suspicions are outdated?

Can't explain why scum didn't NK you? (Guess saying it would be against the scum teams WC would be bad aye)

I don't care about why scum didn't kill me, hence why I dismissed your bringing it up as a waste of my time.

[maxwell]

Not incredibly solid on psyche being town but he's at least attempting to put forward something to this game now though I don't really agree with his vote. At this point given his inconsistencies yesterday I think SC is the best vote for today. Would actually prefer to be investigated tonight as I think I'd be more useful this game if I'm cleared.

VOTE: StrangerCoug

[StrangerCoug]

You know what?

Yes, I'm voting Psyche, but I'm second-guessing myself at this point.

I've decided that my vote does not belong on Psyche.

UNVOTE: Psyche
VOTE: Benmage

I am done with what is effectively OMGUS and his crappy case on me. At least maxwell has a three-digit IQ and is voting me for reasons that I can get to make sense (I believe he is referring to my 180 on him, and I still hold that it makes no sense for both HezLucky and maxwell to be scum). He's not my number one town read either as I have questions as to how, exactly, he plans on being cop-cleared, but he's still not a lynch I want to pursue.

[DLG]

@ Benmage and Psyche

Do either of you really think that the Seacore Day 2 lynch was 10 Town plus 1 scum?

And, for the record, I haven't posted this as a question beofre now. But, my thougts about this are on the record and you both have flat-out, patently ignored it. Just in case you are tempted to claim you didn't read it before, go read it right now. Post 2864, under the End of Day 2 analysis spoiler.

And, Benmage, don't fucking ignore me on this. You're not the only one scum-hunting. You are the only one glory-hogging, though. I've made it perfectly clear that I can only see you as scum if there is another scum team. So, quit trying to treat me as if I don't exist in this game.

Really, anybody answer this question.

[Maxous]

Sorry was a busy weekend..prob should of announced semi-v/la or something.

I'm fine with lynching SC mostly based off his weak voting in D4.
Don't like either how he just randomly decided to sheep Andrew's PR theory on OGML (for some reason?) despite not finding OGML scummy previously.
Not a fan of his Psyche vote also.

*** -Classic scum read positions. Town as his #1 suspects, but keeps scum partners as weaker reads, to still get cred. Classic scumtell.

This is a fair point I guess.
Think Ben is streching in a lot of the other points though.

@SC: Can you tl;dr why Benmage is scum?

I wanna disuss the Hez points that Psyche brought up later.

@DLG: Dunno but it's possible.
I have mislynched town before because I beleived "no way could X wagon be all town" when it was.

[StrangerCoug]

I am in agreement with you that Benmage is stretching in a lot of his case on me (he claimed that my suspicions are outdated when I had already taken into account what he specified were outdated in my attack on him), and he apparently thinks not having him as my top town read is scummy, which is coming off as a "glorified" OMGUS attack. I still have issues with the level of his scumhunting in general, but anyone who thinks he hasn't been posting much lately is extremely inattentive.

[DLG]

The reason I'm more reluctant to vote OhGodMyLife right now is because 1.) my vote on him was to test a theory by a player who since replaced out and of whom some people now suspect of being a serial killer and 2.) I don't buy OhGodMyLife and maxwell as both scum the way HezLucky's been going after him.

That's the last thing you said regarding OhGodMyLife on Day 4.

I still think lynching HezLucky is the correct answer for refusing to justify how maxwell was bussing OhGodMyLife. Yes, OGML flipped scum. That was what I thought at the time.

I'm confused by what looks like pretty unconvincing revisionist history on your part. Can you explain?

It was a relatively weak scum read, but a scum read nonetheless.

Alright, I'd like further clarification on this, StrangerCoug.

See, I expected an answer to my question more along the lines of, "I was just saying what I thought prior to the flip." Because, you

were

saying that prior to the flip. Instead, this idea that you really did have a mild scum read on OhGodMyLife seems out of place.

And, it would only make sense for you to push OhGodMyLife harder at that point. Because, the only way HezLucky could be guilty of anything is if he knew -pre-flip - that OhGodMyLife was scum. Unless you thought HezLucky was pushing two mislynches at the same time. In which case, you patently did not think OhGodMyLife was scum (even mildly).

I am done with what is effectively OMGUS and his crappy case on me. At least maxwell has a three-digit IQ and is voting me for reasons that I can get to make sense (I believe he is referring to my 180 on him, and I still hold that it makes no sense for both HezLucky and maxwell to be scum).

That's a ridiculous claim. OMGUS? That's just patently untrue.

So, if both HezLucky and maxwell are not scum (I agree with this, by the way), could it be that HezLucky just had really good "busdar"?

If not, then why aren't you pushing for a HezLucky lynch based on the fact that he would have had to have known OhGodMyLife was going to flip scum?

As for the other part, I refuse to give you details about what I think is the setup. My 5:1:18 theory is based on the fact that mods shoot for 25%-33% of the game being scum, the Mafia has no specific name, and there were three deaths on nights 3 and 4. That is all the town needs to know of my opinion.

So, 18:5:1 is your theory. That would put us at 7:2:1, right now.

Why were you willing to flat sheep me on Psyche

When you asked the question, it hadn't changed from the end of yesterday: HezLucky, then you. DLG's pushing really hard for a Psyche lynch in #2864, and I'm buying.

[/quote]
when he was at best your third highest scum read? I mean, under your theory of distribution, we only have one mislynch to give (worst case), right?

[StrangerCoug]

The reason I'm more reluctant to vote OhGodMyLife right now is because 1.) my vote on him was to test a theory by a player who since replaced out and of whom some people now suspect of being a serial killer and 2.) I don't buy OhGodMyLife and maxwell as both scum the way HezLucky's been going after him.

That's the last thing you said regarding OhGodMyLife on Day 4.

I still think lynching HezLucky is the correct answer for refusing to justify how maxwell was bussing OhGodMyLife. Yes, OGML flipped scum. That was what I thought at the time.

I'm confused by what looks like pretty unconvincing revisionist history on your part. Can you explain?

It was a relatively weak scum read, but a scum read nonetheless.

Alright, I'd like further clarification on this, StrangerCoug.

See, I expected an answer to my question more along the lines of, "I was just saying what I thought prior to the flip." Because, you

were

saying that prior to the flip. Instead, this idea that you really did have a mild scum read on OhGodMyLife seems out of place.

Explain how it is out of place.

I am done with what is effectively OMGUS and his crappy case on me. At least maxwell has a three-digit IQ and is voting me for reasons that I can get to make sense (I believe he is referring to my 180 on him, and I still hold that it makes no sense for both HezLucky and maxwell to be scum).

That's a ridiculous claim. OMGUS? That's just patently untrue.

Then give your opinion about why Benmage is complaining that he is not my top town read.

So, if both HezLucky and maxwell are not scum (I agree with this, by the way), could it be that HezLucky just had really good "busdar"?

Your wording's off, but I understand what you mean, and I am currently closed to the possibility that HezLucky had a good "busdar" as he refused to back himself up. I would be much more willing to accept it with maxwell flipped scum.

If not, then why aren't you pushing for a HezLucky lynch based on the fact that he would have had to have known OhGodMyLife was going to flip scum?

Because I cannot get any support for it.

As for the other part, I refuse to give you details about what I think is the setup. My 5:1:18 theory is based on the fact that mods shoot for 25%-33% of the game being scum, the Mafia has no specific name, and there were three deaths on nights 3 and 4. That is all the town needs to know of my opinion.

So, 18:5:1 is your theory. That would put us at 7:2:1, right now.

Why were you willing to flat sheep me on Psyche

When you asked the question, it hadn't changed from the end of yesterday: HezLucky, then you. DLG's pushing really hard for a Psyche lynch in #2864, and I'm buying.

when he was at best your third highest scum read?

Like you, I reject the idea that the Seacore lynch was made up of ten town and one scum.

I mean, under your theory of distribution, we only have one mislynch to give (worst case), right?

Let me do this in my head... 7:2:1, town gets lynched, two more townies die (since the vig is dead), putting us at 4:2:1... Sounds about right.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please put another opening quote tag before the quote tag before "As for the other part..."

[DLG]

@DLG: Dunno but it's possible.
I have mislynched town before because I beleived "no way could X wagon be all town" when it was

O.K., sure it's possible. I just think it's highly unlikely. In combination with other points against Psyche, I still highly favor his lynch.

Now, if it was 10 and 1 on Seacore, then that makes for a minimum of 2 scum in the group of {HezLucky, Code_X, StrangerCoug, Benmage}. That's assuming only 6 scum in the game (including a Serial Killer). More scum in the game means more in that group.

There were two known members of the Mafia team on the other wagon. That much is known. Seems highly unlikely that all four remaining members of the Mafia team would be on the Junpei wagon. Especially since that wagon was the lynch the next Day, with no variance in who was on it out of this group.

So, if an SK is in the game, most likely he is within the group of 4 above. Then, one more Mafia team member and maxwell as a member of the Mafia faction.

Keep in mind, though, that all is only true if the Seacore wagon was 10 Town and 1 scum.

Effectively, by PoE, I think there are minimum 3 scum within the group of {Psyche, maxwell, Code_X, StrangerCoug, HezLucky}. I only think one of HezLucky/StrangerCoug is likely. That makes for 2 out of {Psyche, maxwell, Code_X}.

Of course, this is all subject to change pending future flips, but that's where I'm at, right now.

I'd really like to see a Psyche lynch on this Day.

If anything is not clear, above, I'll expand on it.

Pedit: Will read over your post and respond tomorrow, StrangerCoug. I'm out for the night.

[RachMarie]

I will be willing to switch (to Psyche from Maxwell) if needed for deadline and like I said earlier DLG I will investigate whichever one does not get lynched to help us narrow the field.

[Code_X]

Reading Jason and Firestarter. I have no interest whatsoever in a Psyche lynch.

I'll try and get my thoughts down in the next 24 hours but Psyche is someone I don't want lynched following those flips and his recent posts.