Newbie 1252: The Other Game Town Wins!

[Robocopter87]

Nope... Too much wifom in the "why didn't they kill me" bit. Hoss is still a good lynch for the day.

I believe it to be too WIFOMy to be a good lynch. They easily could've set this up just so we would kill him. I'm unsure how to deal with the situation.

[Majiffy]

Easily; look at his behavior. He's lynch material and you know it.

[Robocopter87]

Yes. But he claimed Doctor.

[Majiffy]

Claims don't mean anything. Especially a still-living Doctor claim. I'm not seeing experienced scum here, so they probably didn't leave him alive for WIFOM reasons; newbscum kills off PRs and experienced players first.

RXK

(5) [LYNCH!] -

Thor665

,

Robocopter87

, Fujiko,

Majiffy

, TheHossaim
TheHossaim (1) [L-4] -

RXK

Rachmarie (1) [L-4] -

194

Not Voting: RachMarie,

nhammen

Colored to fit my reads. I'm fairly positive At least one scum was on the wagon, if not both. Honestly I think by tomorrow's flip I'll have this in the bag if not by the end of the day. Hossaim is

the

lynch today, and my quick VCA confirms.

VOTE: TheHossaim

State intent before any hammer please. We don't want a repeat of yesterday.

[Majiffy]

However if you want to keep Hoss alive for the (IMO incredibly unlikely) chance he is legit scum, I will support a Rach or Fuj lynch. I would, however, have to see some exceptional evidence to support it aside from my POE.

[Majiffy]

EBWOP *legit town

[Majiffy]

Also if we mislynch today, mass claim is tomorrow.

[Fujiko]

V/LA (More LA than V) til July 21 but I will post as much as I can. I should have done this sooner with all that is going on.

Good luck.

Really? If it weren't so early on the wagon this would be incredibly scummy.

Yeah, I know.

I just feel like killing Hoss is not a particularly productive effort. I'm still concerned about the quickhammer, but I'm kind of wondering if it was perceived self-preservation - if RXK died, Hoss didn't.

I feel like I've been inactive, but I really haven't known what to go on at this point.

[Majiffy]

No... Hoss hammer wasn't jitters. PRs don't get lynched d1, regardless of if their claim is legit or not. You played on EM, right? I feel like you should know that, but maybe I'm mistaking you for someone else.

As far as your activity, I'd (and everyone else) would like it

if you give ANY ideas on ANYTHING that has gone on. If you have an idea, positive or negative, please share
Bolded goes to all newbies.

[nhammen]

I'm sorry, what? Thor wasn't voicing me as

the

lynch. Thor died. Robo hasn't flipped. And my defense of Robo is what you're going to push me on? You can rightly fuck the hell off, sir.

Interesting that the first thing you jump to is trying to say what Thor thought. Even though in #377 he said that he waould also support a Majiffy lynch. But regardless of that, Robo doesn't need to flip for that defense to be scummy. If I had played more recently, I might be able to make something of this reaction, but honestly, this reaction doesn't give me any clues in either direction.

I'll sober up and do some analysis. Thor death isn't too surprising; shows scum is newb and probably afraid of aggressive, pro-town players. Thus we're looking for lurkers and semi-scum newbs.

Claims don't mean anything. Especially a still-living Doctor claim. I'm not seeing experienced scum here, so they probably didn't leave him alive for WIFOM reasons; newbscum kills off PRs and experienced players first.

So, they are newbscum cuz they killed Thor first, but if they were newbscum, they would have killed Hoss rather than Thor? Come again?

RXK

(5) [LYNCH!] -

Thor665

,

Robocopter87

, Fujiko,

Majiffy

, TheHossaim
TheHossaim (1) [L-4] -

RXK

Rachmarie (1) [L-4] -

194

Not Voting: RachMarie,

nhammen

Colored to fit my reads. I'm fairly positive At least one scum was on the wagon, if not both. Honestly I think by tomorrow's flip I'll have this in the bag if not by the end of the day. Hossaim is

the

lynch today, and my quick VCA confirms.

However if you want to keep Hoss alive for the (IMO incredibly unlikely) chance he is legit scum, I will support a Rach or Fuj lynch. I would, however, have to see some exceptional evidence to support it aside from my POE.

Honestly, I have a pretty significant town read on Fuji, much more that my townread on 194 even, so would not support his lynch. The main reason that I am down to Majiffy and Rach is POE, although POE also leaves Robo in my mind, but much farther behind. However, that POE leaves out Hoss, who I am going back and forth on. One of my main concerns is that with Iknal and now Rach, we seem to have almost no information on that player slot.

[194]

Claims don't mean anything. Especially a still-living Doctor claim. I'm not seeing experienced scum here, so they probably didn't leave him alive for WIFOM reasons; newbscum kills off PRs and experienced players first.

I'm not really used to the term WIFOM yet, but vía using the Wiki, I can find your logic sound. A PR bringing the WIFOM possibility before it happens sounds weird, but again, this is kinda a WIFOM itself (yo dawg, so we heard u leik WIFOMs).

Why are you assuming there is no experienced scum in the game?

[Majiffy]

WIFOM is a game I don't really fuck around with much; when I find someone scummy, I find them scummy, unless I find latter town motivation for their actions.

I'm assuming lack of exp. scum based on the Thor kill (the most experienced player in the game) and lack of PR Claim kill. I expect myself or the doc claim to die next (whom of which, I very much believe is scum)

[Majiffy]

Basically, exp scum would have gone for someone such as yourself or Robo; the townies that are considered 'town' by the majority. Inexperienced scum shows their newbness by going by the more experienced and well-versed players first. Before we get a hammer, I need to analyze Thor's and my own preferences for lynch and see if we disagree/agree/etc on anyone so I can give a properly adjusted list of good lynch potentials to read.

[Fujiko]

Why are you assuming there is no experienced scum in the game?

This is starting to bother me a bit too, simply because of numbers of people. If you don't believe there are experienced scum, and most of the people are experienced, well....

I had read 194 as scummy yesterday. Less so today.

I'm reading TheHossaim as more inexperienced than scummy - perhaps the quickhammer was to save himself. EpicMafia looks like it's much faster paced, in the 10 seconds of investigation I did there...

I have no read on Rach.

I have a bit of a read on Majiffy as scum, but can't put my finger on why. At any rate, I just can't get behind his idea of a Fuj lynch.

I've changed my mind on Robo several times. The initial self-voting still bothers me - what if Hossaim had pulled a quickhammer then? What scum would risk that? (But what townie would risk that?) He's looked solid since though.

nhammen looks pretty solidly town to me. I'm trying to convince myself that this is/isn't because he has (correctly) read me as town, and act accordingly.

[Fujiko]

No... Hoss hammer wasn't jitters. PRs don't get lynched d1, regardless of if their claim is legit or not. You played on EM, right?

No, Hoss did. If this is something he would have picked up there, then never mind that part of what I last said.

[194]

Why are you assuming there is no experienced scum in the game?

This is starting to bother me a bit too, simply because of numbers of people. If you don't believe there are experienced scum, and most of the people are experienced, well....

I was just asking for an explanation for that assumption from Maffijy, and I got a satisfactory one.

[Fujiko]

I was just asking for an explanation for that assumption from Maffijy, and I got a satisfactory one.

Fair enough. I'm not quite as satisfied.

[RachMarie]

correct the V/LA I meant to July 14th because I wont be home 2 nights next week.

Please remember to bold this

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Day 2, Vote Count #3

194 (0) -
Fujiko (0) -
nhammen (0) -
TheHossaim (3) [L-1!!!] - Robocopter87, 194, Majiffy
Rachmarie (0) -
Robocopter87 (0) -
Majiffy (2) [L-2] - nhammen, Fujiko

Not Voting: RachMarie, TheHossaim

With 7 Alive It Takes 4 To Lynch
RachMarie is V/LA Till 7/14
Deadline is set for July 27th. 5:44 PM EST (expired on 2012-07-27 17:44:00)
Let me know If I made an error

[Majiffy]

So, they are newbscum cuz they killed Thor first, but if they were newbscum, they would have killed Hoss rather than Thor? Come again?

If Hoss were town, which I've said is highly unlikely.

Stop being selective and read the whole thread, please.

Honestly, I have a pretty significant town read on Fuji, much more that my townread on 194 even, so would not support his lynch. The main reason that I am down to Majiffy and Rach is POE, although POE also leaves Robo in my mind, but much farther behind. However, that POE leaves out Hoss, who I am going back and forth on. One of my main concerns is that with Iknal and now Rach, we seem to have almost no information on that player slot.

It is far too early to build your entire case on POE. Sorry, but this is just unacceptable.

[nhammen]

So, they are newbscum cuz they killed Thor first, but if they were newbscum, they would have killed Hoss rather than Thor? Come again?

If Hoss were town, which I've said is highly unlikely.

Stop being selective and read the whole thread, please.

I'm not being selective, and I understand that you are only making that point if Hoss is town. My problem, is that your point makes no sense to me if Hoss is town, and I was attempting to clarify that. So let me restate your arguments in the way I am interpreting them in the case that Hoss is town (so I will add "If Hoss is Town" to the front of each), and you tell me where I am mistaken.

Argument 1: If Hoss is Town, the fact that Thor was killed first implies that the scum team are newbscum.
Argument 2: If Hoss is Town, a newbscum team would probably have killed Hoss first rather than killing Thor first.
Argument 3: If Hoss is Town, by Argument 1, scum are newbscum, so by Argument 2, they would probably have killed Hoss first. This contradicts the what has occurred, so thus the assumption that Hoss is town is probably false.

That is your argument, right? My problem is that Argument 2 contradicts Argument 1, so they cannot be used together. As in, if we assume Hoss is town, the contraposition of Argument 2 is Thor being killed first implies the scum team are not a newbscum team.

It is far too early to build your entire case on POE. Sorry, but this is just unacceptable.

Oh, may I ask why? Also, I didn't say my entire case, I said my main case. Because frankly, I haven't seen too many strong scmtells in this game, but I have seen some pretty significant towntells. As stated before, the way you strongly came to the defense of Robo and 194 made me feel uneasy. Iknal made one kinda scummy post before replacing out, and I haven't seen enough of Rach to get a read. The fact that the two of you are who remains after POE, and that the two of you both have minor scumpoints (when nobody in this game has anything more than minor scumpoints) indicates to me rather strongly that at least one of you two is scum.

[Majiffy]

I'm not being selective, and I understand that you are only making that point if Hoss is town. My problem, is that your point makes no sense to me if Hoss is town, and I was attempting to clarify that. So let me restate your arguments in the way I am interpreting them in the case that Hoss is town (so I will add "If Hoss is Town" to the front of each), and you tell me where I am mistaken.

Argument 1: If Hoss is Town, the fact that Thor was killed first implies that the scum team are newbscum.
Argument 2: If Hoss is Town, a newbscum team would probably have killed Hoss first rather than killing Thor first.
Argument 3: If Hoss is Town, by Argument 1, scum are newbscum, so by Argument 2, they would probably have killed Hoss first. This contradicts the what has occurred, so thus the assumption that Hoss is town is probably false.

You're reading this entirely wrong;

"Hoss is scum, thus"; repleaces "if Hoss is town"
Silly kid.

Oh, may I ask why? Also, I didn't say my entire case, I said my main case. Because frankly, I haven't seen too many strong scmtells in this game, but I have seen some pretty significant towntells. As stated before, the way you strongly came to the defense of Robo and 194 made me feel uneasy. Iknal made one kinda scummy post before replacing out, and I haven't seen enough of Rach to get a read. The fact that the two of you are who remains after POE, and that the two of you both have minor scumpoints (when nobody in this game has anything more than minor scumpoints) indicates to me rather strongly that at least one of you two is scum.

So you haven't seen any strong scumtells, you've seen a few (easily fakeable) towntells. And yet I'm scum. Ok.

194 and Robo are my strongest town reads. Why the fuck

wouldn't

I come to their defense?

Fuck you

if you have a problem with that.

So your entire case relies on "minor scumpoints"? Oh yeah, you're going to be a really fucking useful scumhunter.

[Fujiko]

Hoss, where are you?

I'm fairly positive At least one scum was on the wagon

But what about yesterday's Hoss wagon?

TheHossaim (4) [L-1!!!] - Robocopter87, RXK, Fujiko, Majiffy

Given how long this sat there - why wouldn't the mafia have pushed it further unless at least one (or both) of them were on the train? I'm thinking they're both on here. This may be taking the conclusion too far - but I don't see why, after a few days, they wouldn't have just killed him and been done with it. He sat at L-1 for nearly a week.

We know RXK wasn't scum. (Sorry, man)

I know I'm not scum.

[Majiffy]

If Hoss is scum it doesn't make any sense for mafia to bus if the wagon is stagnant. You aren't thinking clearly.

[Fujiko]

If Hoss is scum it doesn't make any sense for mafia to bus if the wagon is stagnant. You aren't thinking clearly.

I agree. But if Hoss isn't scum, I would expect them to bus him. They didn't.

You're assuming he's scum; I'm not.