Newbie 1252: The Other Game Town Wins!

[Nobody Special]

Day 2, Vote Count #5

194 (0) -
Fujiko (0) -
nhammen (0) -
TheHossaim (3) [L-2] - 194, Majiffy
Rachmarie (0) -
Robocopter87 (0) -
Majiffy (2) [L-2] - nhammen, Fujiko

Not Voting: RachMarie, TheHossaim, Robocopter87

With 7 Alive It Takes 4 To Lynch
RachMarie is V/LA Till 7/14
Deadline is set for July 27th. 5:44 PM EST (expired on 2012-07-27 17:44:00)
Let me know If I made an error

[Nobody Special]

Searching for a replacement for TheHossaim.

[Majiffy]

Townie doesn't replace out at L-1 with no way out...

[Fujiko]

Townie doesn't replace out at L-1 with no way out...

I agree. Seriously lame. However -

Why didn't they kill me?


/confused

Well, im lynched anyway at this point.

This looked to me like 'fuck this, I give up. I'm not playing this anymore.' I was already suspicious of that - why else wouldn't he, at the very least, vote for someone that isn't him?
Especially in light of

Scum is funner imo. I like deception

If he in fact is scum, this is an even stronger 'fuck this, I give up' - he'd be having more fun that way than as a vanilla townie.

It feels to me more like someone getting bored/annoyed and wandering away...

[Fujiko]

If he in fact is scum, this is an even stronger 'fuck this, I give up' - he'd be having more fun that way than as a vanilla townie.

Please pretend I said 'boring' instead of 'vanilla' here. I know the doctor isn't vanilla, if his claim is correct. (Do vanilla townies ever claim power role townies anyway?)

[RachMarie]

They do sometimes, but they should not I have seen PRs get lynched for stating they are VT and vice versa. If you are town it is best just to tell the truth about your role. Even if you end up lynched (and often VTs do especially if it is close to deadline), you can provide info for the rest of the town and be believed when you flip as what you said. Especially with the newbie set up it is best for townies not to lie.

Some people on site will automatically vote to lynch someone who is lying (Lynch all Liars). Which is another reason as townie it is best to just tell the truth especially when claiming your role.

[Majiffy]

Rach you really aught to weigh in on the rest of the game.

Fuji - not if he considers himself caught already. Deception implies not already being caught-scum.

[RachMarie]

I will TBH I am still suspicious of Hoss but now he will be replaced I would like to see what the replacement has to say.

Also will do more this weekend I have night 2 of the sleep study tonight and they said yes I had to go because my oxygen dropped like 25 times the first night. So I probably do have sleep apnea

[Majiffy]

=\

[Fujiko]

Also will do more this weekend I have night 2 of the sleep study tonight and they said yes I had to go because my oxygen dropped like 25 times the first night. So I probably do have sleep apnea

That sucks.

That said, I know sleep apnea can be dealt with, and from the people I've known that have had it, once it's diagnosed and treated, they are much much happier. (I would PM that, but I'm guessing that's illegal somehow...)

[194]

However -

Why didn't they kill me?


/confused

Well, im lynched anyway at this point.

This looked to me like 'fuck this, I give up. I'm not playing this anymore.' I was already suspicious of that - why else wouldn't he, at the very least, vote for someone that isn't him?
Especially in light of

Scum is funner imo. I like deception

If he in fact is scum, this is an even stronger 'fuck this, I give up' - he'd be having more fun that way than as a vanilla townie.

It feels to me more like someone getting bored/annoyed and wandering away...

I had already pointed this before. In fact, the whole being replaced thing seems to make this idea stronger.
Even more when we consider he was a L-1 again during an important part of this day.

I will TBH I am still suspicious of Hoss but now he will be replaced I would like to see what the replacement has to say.

Also will do more this weekend I have night 2 of the sleep study tonight and they said yes I had to go because my oxygen dropped like 25 times the first night. So I probably do have sleep apnea

Same about the replacement, as we did with you.

You have apnea? A pity D:

[Fujiko]

I had already pointed this before. In fact, the whole being replaced thing seems to make this idea stronger.
Even more when we consider he was a L-1 again during an important part of this day.

Ah, my apologies. I missed it before.

[Fujiko]

I'll be V/LA from tomorrow (7/14) to a week from Sunday (7/22.)

I do expect to be checking in occasionally - I shouldn't be totally gone.

[Nobody Special]

Zorblag replaces TheHossaim effective immediately.

[Zorblag]

Good day everyone.

My name is Zorblag, though you're welcome to call me any of Zorblag, Zorb, Zor, Z or Troll. I'm largely retired from playing mafia but I like to replace into a newbie game every now and then when I've got the time. This game looked interesting and I've got the time so now you've got me in the game. I know a number of you this time around so it's good to see familiar faces and good to meet those of you who are new. If you've got any questions about my experience I'll encourage you to take a look at my wiki page (link at the bottom of my posts) which has a record of most of my previous games broken down by team. Beyond that you're welcome to ask any questions you'd like and I'll try to answer them.

I have skimmed the game from page 10 on so I've got some idea what's going on here and the first thing that I need to do is confirm that

I am indeed the doctor

, but I don't know who TheHossaim protected last night because Elmo TeH AzN didn't provide Nobody Special with that information. When Elmo TeH AzN gets back I'll be able to tell you what my night action was. There's really no reason for me to hold back the information about who TheHossaim protected once I get it as that won't give scum any indication about who I might protect so it is my plan to share it once I've got it.

From what I've read it seems pretty likely that Robocopter87 and Majiffy are town. There's lots of active presence and what I thought were legitimate attempts to move the game forward. Scum could fake those things but they don't have to, and especially in a game with a number of inactive players I expect such actions to be much more likely to come from town.

My biggest concerns at this point are 194, nhammen and (sadly) Rach Marie. From my first read-through my impression was that 194 was doing much more reacting to comments that came up about him than looking at other players to try to figure out who was scum. The lurking issue and reactions to it I'll talk about a bit later, but I need to go back and give 194's posts a better reading. nhammen largely failed to make an impression while I was reading through the game the first time. He wasn't brought up as being suspect but he wasn't doing all that much. If I were scum I'd love to be in that sort of position and I'd probably play the game in a manner very similiar to what he's done. Rach Marie just hasn't been able to be a presence at all since joining. She's gotten next to no pressure for it (which is pretty unacceptable) and while I do recognize that it's legitimate RL reasons that are keeping her from engaging that does nothing to make here any more likely to be town than scum. We just don't have nearly enough information to work with there and that's going to have to change.

That leaves Fujiko who I didn't really form a strong opinion about. It seemed like I saw more from her than nhammen or Rach Marie, but I need to go back and give her a good read to form a stronger opinion and see what contributions to the game we've actually had.

For now I'm going to go with my first impressions and
VOTE: 194
but I owe you a better set of reasons, so expect them to come within the next couple days (or maybe I'll change my mind and my vote after doing more reading.)

I've got a couple of events today that are going to take up my time but I should be around for good chunks of the day tomorrow so I plan to be fully caught up with the game and have a better defined set of opinions by tomorrow evening.

If anyone would like to ask me any questions or bring anything in particular to my attention I'd be happy to respond to the best of my ability. I won't be able to tell you what TheHossaim was thinking about anything, but I can give you my best guess.

@Majiffy, I'm pretty sure that you're town and appreciate the effort that you're making here, but we're going to have to talk about the reasons for your current vote. You fully acknowledge that inexperienced scum would be likely to take out active experienced players and power roles, but seem to have decided that it wouldn't make sense for them to have gone for Thor665 when there was a claimed doc in the game. I'd argue that TheHossaim was a claimed power role in a particularly week position who couldn't actually do anything on his own to find scum whereas Thor665 was an experienced, aggressive player who would be a bigger threat to the scum team if he were left alive. Even inexperienced scum would have a decent chance of recognizing that leaving a player like TheHossaim alive is going to have a good chance of leading to their lynch the following day. I don't think that it's at all unreasonable that a scum team would pass on that night kill in order to take out a bigger perceived threat and hope that the town would take care of the PR kill for them the next day for free. Had they knocked off TheHossaim during the night it's not particularly clear to me who the next biggest target would have been, but by leaving him they guaranteed that a town player was the one wearing the big bullseye in the day game going into day two.

@Rach Marie, I know that you care about these mafia games and would hate to replace out. I also know that you're going through busy times right now. The sleep aphnea thing is rough (though it's much better to know if you have it so that you can start doing whatever needs to be done to get better sleep), and I wish you all the best as you handle the next rounds of tests. I know that you've got at least one current newbie game in which you're an IC and that you're modding at least one game. If your time committment is hitting the wall at this point unfortunately I'll argue that it would be better for the game if you sought a replacement now than if you continued playing at the level of input that you've been playing. If you're town you're not having the time to make the contributions you'd like to (and that I know you could.) If you're scum you're getting away with murder here, but not in a way that I think you'd particularly like to. For the rest of the game the lack of information about you is definitely detrimental in terms of the reads that people can form and isn't a good example of what we want people to learn to expect from a newbie game.

If you've got time to actually play the game from here on out that'll be great! You being in the game was one of the draws for me. If not then I'd argue that you'll be the same sort of drag on the game that Elmo TeH AzN was in the last game we played together (Newbie Game 1222 for anyone interested; though we just interacted in the quick topic for the dead in that one.) I know we ended up winning but we played the whole thing essentially down a player up till the end.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Robocopter87]

Troll! Wow I haven't seen you in so long. It is good to have you here.

[Majiffy]

Zorbag is satisfactorily town for now.

UNVOTE: Zorbag
194 lynch is bad, though.

[Robocopter87]

Told you he was town, you stubborn jerk. [/totallyjoking]

[nhammen]

How many newbie games have you played?

On my wiki I only have 4 listed, but I could have sworn I was in many more than that. Some I forgot to put on my wiki? But either way, my last newbie game was in February of 2011.

Townie doesn't replace out at L-1 with no way out...

Now your confirmation bias is just seeing everything he does as scummy...

I had already pointed this before. In fact, the whole being replaced thing seems to make this idea stronger.
Even more when we consider he was a L-1 again during an important part of this day.

I looked back at your previous post on the subject, and although you stated it looked like he was giving up, you didn't state whether you believed it had any bearing on his alignment, and if so, in which direction.



TROLL!!!
Well, I can't argue much with your reasons for disliking my play, since it boils down to an opinion that I haven't made much of an impression on the game. The part of me that always has to be right loves that Robo and (judging from what I saw in your comments to Majiffy) you find my points about Majiffy's logic to be correct. I disagree about Majiffy being town though. Upon ISOing 194, I can see where you are coming from with regards to him.

[Nobody Special]

Day 2, Vote Count #6

194 (1) - Zorblag
Fujiko (0) -
nhammen (0) -
Zorblag (1) - 194
Rachmarie (0) -
Robocopter87 (0) -
Majiffy (2) [L-2] - nhammen, Fujiko

Not Voting: RachMarie, Robocopter87, Majiffy

With 7 Alive It Takes 4 To Lynch
RachMarie is V/LA Till 7/14; Fujiko is V/LA through Sunday July 22
Deadline is set for July 27th. 5:44 PM EST (expired on 2012-07-27 17:44:00)
Let me know If I made an error

[Robocopter87]

To be quite honest I have a solid null read on Majiffy.

[Majiffy]

Well as long as it's solid.

[Robocopter87]

As solid as a solid rock.

[Fujiko]

Hello, new troll person! Thank you for joining us.

194 lynch is bad, though.

I'm not entirely sold it is myself. I would be okay with that idea.

[194]

OK, this troll has made a solid post.
UNVOTE: Zorblag

I can see your points about the lurking issue (as I did with Thor during the latter half of Day 1), as I recognized them during the last part of that day.

2 V/LA out of 7? D:

Anyhow, now that the one who was the main candidate is as clear as crystal, I think I will re-read the thread and come with some conclusions.