Abarat: Days of Magic, Nights of War Mafia (Endgame)

[Flash]

Actually yeah scum can fake 120 okay I guess.

120 is the only post agar has made that comes off as even remotely scummy to me. What about it needs to be 'faked' in your mind?

P.S. This agar wagon sucks.

[Staeg]

Yeah I pressed submit early


I'm not sold on an agar wagon - he looks like your average tool-pretends-to-be-cool guy

Llamarble's... weird. I can't see how a couple of votes affects him in any way whatsoever, but eh.

[Nuwen]

Start posting.

(Yes, that was worth a giant purple header.)

Hey now. You should know I can only play this game at work.

The resistance I see to the Agar wagon all seems along the lines of "I'm not seeing it / he didn't do a scummy thing." I'm inclined to agree with the chorus of voices. Tell me what you see, Fate.

In the meantime, let me tell you what

I

see.

So MoI is town, chesskid is most likely scum, bella is most likely town, unless there is the possibility of multiple scum being amongst MoI's info. Finally, there is most likely more scum amongst the reasonless, postless players voting me, or quite possibly just amongst the people voting me. @Staeg @Nuwen both who have said nothing except for the words "Vote:" and their "Player of Choice" in any of their posts. Why are these being allowed to fly?

~~~

Lol @ ReckDB

Minimum: I think it's pretty clear why my vote is still parked, maybe you should just read the posts I make. It's really really helpful, I promise.

After Post #131 I'm fine with an AGar lynch.

Unvote
Vote: AGar

Shinori has some scum reads (Chesskid, mystery-MOI-sauce pool). We don't see him actively pursue any of the above; his vote and attention have been fixed strongly on Agar. Agar-Agar-Agar-Agar, says my ISO count - this is interesting, because he makes no mention of Agar until his wagon grows and the IC requests sheeps. This is a good way to kill off a wagon on yourself, obviously. The question we should be asking is: is this a townie coasting behind IC reads (useless and you know it - "helper-only" people are dead weight, you want a combination of fresh perspectives AND cooperation), or he's scum shoving momentum behind a lifeline.

The questions about Staeg's and Nuwen's votes are NOT undertoned by someone trying to find scum, it's an appeal for all of you to see these votes as scummy. "Look at what these guys voting me are doing!"

[4nxi3ty]

You voted me because I corrected someone on saying I was defending someone when I wasn't? Also the fact that I said what I thought seraphim did was scummy is the reason you are voting me, so let me get this straight, I shouldn't correct wrongly placed assumptions, and I shouldn't post my thoughts. Got it.

I DID NOT DEFEND HIM. WHEN DID I DEFEND HIM?

I put a vote on him and then asked if that was something he did or didn't do and asked for clarification on that. Please explain to me how that is me defending him?

Please find the exact line where I thought he was town or defended him. Because I did not. I asked if what he was doing was something he normally did or not.

No I asked if it was something he did normally, that's completely true. Because I wanted an answer to that question first and felt no need to imply that I figured it was something he tended to do more as scum than town. Where I come from votes with no reason is scummie, and I would normally think that would be something that was normal elsewhere, but apparently that isn't so here.

frustrated town tones throughout these posts.

But this early? Really? This happened before post one hundred, No one is stupid enough to have bible level belief in their reads without at least a couple hundred posts. (Given that there have been no slips). I just don't see this happening, I'm sorry.

Can you get more obvious, I mean, honestly, if you were to stand up and yell "I'm scum" do you think that would do it? Choo-Choo Lynch please.

so was this a joke post then or did you think hindu did something scummy? what is your current thoughts of hindu?

unvote,vote: OAFE

[Untrod Tripod]

Nuwen or Chesskid are the most likely scums on that wagon.

nuwen literally hadn't posted any content at the point where you made that post. why include her?

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

i'm making good use of this PR

[Staeg]

Anx, how do you tell the difference between town and scum frustration?

[hitogoroshi]

"Fishes, feed me!
Fishes fine!
Swim in the nets and catch the line!
Feed my children!
Fill my dishes!
That’s why I love you,
Little fishes!"

VC 7 (Session 1, VC 7)

(7)

AGar:

The Two In One, Untrod Tripod, Karen Walker, Hinduragi, Shinori, MagnaOfIllusion, Llamarble [L-5]
(4)

Shinori:

Nuwen, Staeg, Shmugen, RedCoyote

(Llamarble, petapan)

(2)

Llamarble:

Minimum, Flash

(Hinduragi)

(3)

petapan:

Strain

,

Strain

, OnceAndForEver

(4nix3ty)

(1)

chesskid3:

Strain

(Shinori)

(1)

Bella:

sword_of_omens

(MagnaOfIllusion)

(1)

OnceAndForEver:

4nix3ty,

(RedCoyote)

(1)

MagnaOfIlluision:

Bella
(1)

Flash:

Seraphim
(1)

Minimum:

Magister Ludi
(1)

Magister Ludi:

AGar
(1)

Fate:

Strain

(1)

Untrod Tripod:

chesskid3

(2)

Not Voting:

Nachomamma8, petapan

Post Counts

chesskid3:

****

petapan:

*****

*

Shmugen:

*

OnceAndForEver:

*****

AGar:

**

Karen Walker:

***

Hinduragi:

***

Llamarble:

****

Fate:

**

Minimum:

*

Shinori:

****

MagnaofIllusion:

*

RedCoyote:

*

Regfan:

*

Staeg:

***

Flash:

*

Nuwen:

*

4nix3ty:

*

Untrod Tripod:

*

Permenant Strain:

chesskid3

(1),

petapan

(1),

Fate

(1)

With 23 votes in play, it takes 12 to lynch.

Automatic Termination of the First Session

(expired on 2012-07-31 19:00:00)

Nachomamma8 is V/LA until Saturday.

[4nxi3ty]

Anx, how do you tell the difference between town and scum frustration?

practice, mostly. how town express their frustration usually give off a different vibe from scumfrustration.

and shinori's posts have that vibe of town who doesn't understand why a wagon grew so quickly on him and is frustrated cause he thinks he didn't do anything wrong. with scum, I would expect to see more "oh shit they caught me" vibes.

[Bella]

BELLA, READ THIS! BELOW HERE!

Since you didn't fully read the post that you voted MagnaofIllusion for, I'm assuming you'll skim this otherwise.

It was more a case of his comment catching my eye and making me mad before I read the post, but whatever.

That sounds par for the course. I'll be sure to remember this when you're proven wrong.

(Fwiw, I didn't even read that part of your post on account of noticing the insult you aimed at me. Nice try, though.)

i. Why did you vote for MagnaofIllusion in your first post?

It's MagnaofIllusion. Beyond someone claiming scum and posting their scum role PM, I'm not sure there are circumstances under which I wouldn't put a vote on him first. Maybe if he was somehow at L-1, but I'd really have to resist the urge to hammer him and claim it was an accident.

ii. You said before that you voted him without even seeing MoI's claim. Have you read it yet? What do you think?

I would lean towards it possibly being a legitimate claim in that it seems an odd gambit to pull off. The fact that he slipped between saying at least one of those people is scum and saying at least one of them isn't Day-aligned would support it being legitimate - I'd think if he was lying he'd be more rigid with the story he's telling. Then again, I wouldn't put it past him to try it and the list of people involved correlates with people he'd try and get rid of anyway, so I'm open to that possibility.

iii. Are you voting MagnaofIllusion because you don't like him, or do you actually believe that he's scum? The part where you taunt him for being wrong seems to imply you think he's misguided town.

I don't think there's enough data available to conclusively call anyone scum yet. He's a good person to remove from the game, though, and besides that, he really, really bugs me.

iv. Do you have any thoughts on people in the game who

aren't

MagnaofIllusion?

Sure.

erm.... so what? I wasn't asking for their flavor knowledge of their pm, but rather of the arabat book/this game in general. What I want to know, exactly, is who the probable scum team is from an informed flavor standpoint, and who the good guys are.

And you don't think there would be fakeclaims provided?

Also really not big on the 1-of-3 deal with MoI, feels way too gambity on my part considering all 3 are players he'd openly prefer to policy lynch on an account of simply not liking them.

Based on this interaction, I'd be willing to state that Magister Ludi is almost certainly town, and AGar appears much less so, for his attack and vote on ML and his strong pushing of his opinion on MoI's claim here and in other posts.

quote tags fixed. -hito

[Magister Ludi]

practice, mostly. how town express their frustration usually give off a different vibe from scumfrustration.

and shinori's posts have that vibe of town who doesn't understand why a wagon grew so quickly on him and is frustrated cause he thinks he didn't do anything wrong. with scum, I would expect to see more "oh shit they caught me" vibes.

Can you actually explain this using quote and direct words rather than vague sounding statements about what people do and

might

do?

~~

Unvote
Vote: Shinori

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOI, are you saying that you were in fact gambiting, if so, I hate you forever......

Reg - i'm pretty sure MoI retracted his claim, implicitly

Nope. I have not. Claim is valid. Please link to me the posts that you are suggesting indicates I say otherwise.

I don’t know which of you is more scummy here …

A. The player who immediately went “Must lynch in these 4 today” and then looks upset if he’s getting heat for it; or
B. The player who initially suggested it was ‘good info’ and voted Chesskid, more or less immediately switched to Shin and said his read was better than a 50/50 shot, and then is hoping I was fake-claiming.

--

I don't know if that necessarily means we should halt the entire day and choose between the three though.

Where did I ever claim we should do this? Seriously I’m not advocating at all that we should at all be forced to lynch between the three. The information is just that … information. Even if I die it is something every member of Town has free and unfettered access to when seeing flips of the three down the line. I know for me getting it out there and using the subsequent reactions to help me get reads was the most Pro-Town way to approach things. You disagree.

:/

What is the point of this? Seriously. I don’t care if you don’t believe now or not. The fact remains – the information will eventually bear out. Why is having the Commexo (or however you spell it) in the three as opposed to Night a bad thing?

--

Mina, if you know that Hito dislikes millers is there any particular reason your vote isn't on OAFE right now? Also how confident (A percentage will suffice) are you in there being no miller in this game due to that knowledge?

My line of thinking – Hito not wanting to use a Miller in a Mini Theme (which IIRC the last game was) doesn’t necessarily mean he would not use one in a Large Theme.

--

If this isn't a 'the sooner you kill the scums the better for everything' game then it is a weird game indeed.

First explain what this is supposed to mean because all Mafia games ostensibly are this.

--

In the meantime, let me tell you what I see.

Um you voted him at Post 63. Why is Post 86 your reasoning for Shin being scum? What did you see before that?

--

Post 159 is a perfect example of why I can’t wait for Bella to flake and Glork upgrading the slot.

[Fate]

Two conflicting matrices arise.


OFAE+Experienced miller coach (told him to claim miller)

and

Anxiety+Shinori.


The latter is pretty self-explanatory, but I don't think Anx would defend one buddy (the one beign run up) to bus the other.

The former is based on hito's distate for miller, and the fact that he's inexperienced so a wiser scumbuddy would advise him to go wit the millaer claim this game. That means the scumteam isn't entirely scrubs.


ALSO: RC is not sucm if OFAE is. He was ignorant of OFAE's claim, which going with my theory that it was discussed in the scum qt pre-game, would clear him for the most part for me.

I have othe residual reads but they are stil developing.

Unvote:
Vote: Shinori

Down for seeing how this pans out

[Fate]

Oh also this read change has come forth because of my stance on AGar. I'm coming around to him being just badtown and not actually thinking before he votes and it being RVS bullshit, so with that read change makes Shinori by far the scummiest vote on my AGar wagon.

[Nuwen]

The reason I originally voted Shinori is much less interesting/compelling than the reason I'm

still

voting Shinori, obviously. I'd let him go and do the helping if I didn't see him drop his scum reads to have a fluv-fest with the IC's new reads. Shinori, as town, has every reason to resume scumhunting on his old track after the loud-as-fuck doublehead reports a town read on him. Adding fuel to the Agar wagon just means he's either scum or very lazy and very expendable.

While MoI is reading this post,

You've said you

don't

have a ton of flavor background on this game. I

do

. The Abarat series is quite dear to me and I've read through it dozens of times. When you mention "three" and "the wisdom of the spire," some very specific denizens of the 25th hour come to mind, and none of them are in a matrix of 1-1-1 or 2-1 or whatever. We're all well-aware that flavor doesn't dictate wincons, but I get the feeling that the things you're thinking don't mean what you think they do.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You've said you don't have a ton of flavor background on this game. I do. The Abarat series is quite dear to me and I've read through it dozens of times. When you mention "three" and "the wisdom of the spire," some very specific denizens of the 25th hour come to mind, and none of them are in a matrix of 1-1-1 or 2-1 or whatever. We're all well-aware that flavor doesn't dictate wincons, but I get the feeling that the things you're thinking don't mean what you think they do.

Um you are jumping to the incorrect conclusions here. I'm not saying that the three in my role PM are associated with the Spire. I'm saying I am and the 'Wisdom of the Spire' is my ability. I have no idea what flavor my three in one have.

[Nuwen]

Misunderstood, carry on.

[chesskid3]

who claimed miller and where?

[Shinori]

Okay lets see let me explain my thought process so far.

Came into game put down a random vote, happened to be on Seraphim. Yes my vote was random and had no reasoning behind it because I wanted to see what would happen with random votes at that stage of the game here on this site. Thus then Seraphim votes and I find his actions scummy, yet I remembered him doing something similar in the one other mafia I was here in and I wanted to see if that was a norm for him. Skip ahead I vote chesskid, between reading the interactions of chesskid and MoI I noticed a few things. MoI has this supposed info whatever that means one of the said people is town and there is a possibility of their being a scum on his list of player names and Chesskid seems to think it's just a gambit, a few people also do though.

Anywho Chesskid seems completly against it from a few specific posts, specifically post #76 where he specifically states that he doesn't want us spending much time talking about this. Taking into account that there was a 50/50 chance of scum amongst MoI's assumptions at the time between him or Bella I found his vote on me to be particularly scummy, therefore I voted him since I had never received an answer previously about Seraphim I chose to drop that and assumed that it obviously didn't matter since no one had taken the time to answer the question for me. Now moving forward Chesskid does nothing of note until post #112 which seems blatantly pointless to me and scummy as all hell. He then goes on saying that MoI is gambiting again and proceeds to waste two more posts doing a blatant nothing except for a waste of two posts which doesn't help us at all whatsoever and to me it feels like he's doing it because people see him as town and it doesn't matter.

Seriously look at the rest of Chess kids earlier posts, they consist of:
-Post #7 - Random vote on MoI
-Post #39 - pointless post trying to tell someone what they are doing is pointless and worthless when he himself is supposedly one of the plausible targets of what Shmu is talking about.
-Post #43 - Saying he won't get modkilled, worthless post.
-Post #44 - "Sup Hindu" <----Useful right?
-Post #50 - Agreeing with someone about nothing of worth.
-Post #73 - Joins wagon on me with no reasoning
Then we arrive at where we are at now which are the posts I have already gone over. Why do people see chesskid as town again? I think he's scum.

Now my vote for AGar let's go over his posts first.
-Post #24 - Pointless vote on someone who asked a simple question more-or-less focused at the IC's.
-Post #45 - Calls Shmu a moron for what he said he was planning on doing, which as I stated before has Chesskid as one of his main targets.
-Post #102 - States he is also against the MoI information that MoI himself has stated, also said something pointless about fakeclaims for mafia. What Ludi asked was still something that could be seen as helpful.
-Post #105 - Implies MoI is trying to gambit still and isn't even trying to think if MoI might actually have info it appears.
-Post #120 - Still going on saying MoI is gambiting solely on people he just doesn't like. Vote still on Magister Ludi if I believe at this point in time.
-Post #131 - "Lol @ ReckDB" <---useful. Then states it's completely obvious why his vote is still on Magister Ludi and tells him to read his posts. Frankly I don't see why your vote is still on magister Ludi and it seems like you are just spouting random nonsense here.

And that's all for his posts. So let's go over these two people that I found scummy and my votes against them. First off let it be shown that neither of these players have said anything about the other, I feel that should be noted, because while they aren't talking to each other about anything AGar seems to be siding with Chesskid on everything, which could imply helping scum buddy discretely or it could mean that he's sheeping someone's thoughts carefully so that he looks more town, which obviously hasn't worked as of yet. Both Chesskid and AGar are supposedly against MoI's 3-in-1 information, which has Chesskid on the list. And both of them accused Shmu and what he decided to do as being pointless because of the player list when supposedly Chesskid is one of the few people that this could be called out on or focused upon.

Finally the reason I moved my vote from Chesskid to AGar was because after everything I had seen I found both of them scummy but no one seems to want to go with chesskid from the time my vote was on him or the fact that he was on MoI's informational list of people that would most likely roll scum. And since no one wanted to vote for Chesskid I moved my vote towards AGar since I see him as scummy as well for all of the above reasons and his connection to Chesskid that I see. Therefore since I saw both as scum I was perfectly fine with a lynch on either, and with AGar being the target with more attention from the rest of the town I swapped over to him.

tl;dr: Both have similiar thoughts without specifically mentioning the other player at any point in time, and neither have really done anything that worthwhile, as well as the fact that neither of them seem to be giving solid reasoning for their votes.

All of this being said I would still prefer a lynch on Chesskid because of MoI's information.

Therefore:

Unvote; Vote:Chesskid

[Hinduragi]

Chesskid thought I was calling him scum for no reason when I was paraphrasing another player's posts. That's why he made that "useful" post. And, personally, I think that at this point anyone who's jumped on chesskid is lazy scum or badtown.

[Hinduragi]

Oh also this read change has come forth because of my stance on AGar. I'm coming around to him being just badtown and not actually thinking before he votes and it being RVS bullshit, so with that read change makes Shinori by far the scummiest vote on my AGar wagon.

To be fair, he ultimately voted for near the same reason I did. 131 was asking for more votes on him.

[AGar]

@ML

I do still want this answered: Do you think in a game where flavor could be pretty easily made to identify Day/Night/Commexo that the mod would not provide fakeclaims? If so, why are you asking "who could be scum?" and not "do you think it is beneficial for a mass-name-claim?" instead?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Llamarble

I actually think he's worst of the moves onto the wagon. Not sure what could have been "faked" in 120. It wasn't aimed to be "Lol look at me be town." It was a straightforward "This is how I interpret MoI's actions."

Shinori just looks like lazy-town trying to move the attention off him because that's what tends to be a natural reaction of both town and scum when a wagon forms on them - get attention diverted elsewhere.

Otherwise, the ReckDB rapidshift when Fate called out "Oh lol ur scum too." was pretty laughable at best.

And certainly there’s no possible reason for people to seek out that information …

What good does it do to seek out "Hey who would theoretically be scum?" if there's a high chance of mod-provided fakeclaims? Hito isn't a shit-mod, he's not going to put an entire scumteam into position to be lynched because their rolenames were obviously scum. If that were the case, the easiest way to go about this would be mass-name-claiming. This is the problem I've had with his posting thus far - it seems highly pointless to be doing what he's doing rather than paying attention to the game. A vote does not always mean I am 100% set in the ways of him being scum, it never has. Vote is the town's most powerful tool, and if you aren't voting someone for some reason, you're wasting what you have.

[AGar]

Because reading P-edits is for tools:

Frankly I don't see why your vote is still on magister Ludi and it seems like you are just spouting random nonsense here.

If you'd read all of my posts, it'd become pretty apparent that I thought what he was going on about was fairly pointless given the mod and the flavor's implications.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What good does it do to seek out "Hey who would theoretically be scum?" if there's a high chance of mod-provided fakeclaims? Hito isn't a shit-mod, he's not going to put an entire scumteam into position to be lynched because their rolenames were obviously scum. If that were the case, the easiest way to go about this would be mass-name-claiming. This is the problem I've had with his posting thus far - it seems highly pointless to be doing what he's doing rather than paying attention to the game. A vote does not always mean I am 100% set in the ways of him being scum, it never has. Vote is the town's most powerful tool, and if you aren't voting someone for some reason, you're wasting what you have.

Again the fact that there are reasons aside from people claiming IN THREAD for someone to want to know the flavor names most likely to be scum (for example ... Chris Carrion) seems to escape you.

No-one has said that scum don't have fake-claims (because the Mods specifically said they did) or suggested that somehow scum would be lynch via rolename claims alone. That you are resting your whole stance on a premise that no-one has argued or thinks is scummy.

I also appreciate the lesson on voting. I am voting someone I think is scum. So I think I've got a handle on it.

[hitogoroshi]

As a note, todays Replenishment Votecount may be slightly on the other side of 8pm; I'm going get dinner, see the Amazing Spiderman, and yes, get new shoes (I found some really ratty replacements digging around in a closet). Apologies for any delay, I'll post the replenishment VC as soon as I'm back in.