Open 419 Diffusion of Power - Game Over

DeltaWave · Post Post #550 (ISO) » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:40 am

How are they hypothetical and random? they're based on things absta actually said and admitted to. Explain what other options could exist.

Absta is a solid choice anyway given his history of throwing out random questions and tunneling only on Scott to the exclusion of pretty much everyone else

Ser Arthur Dayne · Post Post #551 (ISO) » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:48 am

In post 550, DeltaWave wrote:How are they hypothetical and random? they're based on things absta actually said and admitted to. Explain what other options could exist.

Solid statment ---> Would be based on if Absta claimed cop, and the options were "A: fake-claiming" or "B: telling the truth"

Hypothetical statments ---> Based on guessing what Abtsa's motives are, with options "A: attempting to breadcrumb cop and then backtracking" or "B: Not breadcrumbing cop"

DeltaWave · Post Post #552 (ISO) » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:51 am

They contain inferences about why absta would act that way, but the inferences are reasonable and not at all "random" like you described them.

Do you believe Absta is town or scum?

Ser Arthur Dayne · Post Post #553 (ISO) » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:53 am

In post 552, DeltaWave wrote:Do you believe Absta is town or scum?

He's null atm. I'll ISO soon enough when I am bored. But he is being shadowed because there are so many other people doing more things, and then there is scumScott.

DeltaWave · Post Post #554 (ISO) » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:56 am

Doesn't it raise at least a tiny red flag that he would intentionally copy Venmar's lead-in to a guilty claim, but then claim that he had no idea why he cast that vote?

IceGuy · Post Post #555 (ISO) » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:22 am

In post 530, DeltaWave wrote:
Ice, other than the events of yesterday, what do you have on Venmar?

I had him as a null read before that, but I believe that his behavior yesterday and today was/is very scummy. What made me think of the gambit was not just the claim, but mainly Venmar's behavior. He doesn't play like a cop who got a guilty.

For yesterday, refer to my posts yesterday; for today, see how Venmar has not given any reads but:
- "Not buying Scott scum."
- I'm scum because I advanced the gambit theory.
- Later he adds that I was on both wagons D1 and D2 (like he himself, by the way), and that I didn't vote for FuDuzn immediately when he claimed the guilty. Keep in mind that he pushed me long before that - basically, he started from "IceGuy is scum", and later tried to find anything to throw at it.

The rest is repetitions, AtE ("This is stupid, is this setup going to penalize any cop who got a guilty? Because this is just frustrating, it makes claiming on this setup really hard.") and a few questions.

Also, I don't really see the town train of thought that could have led to this sentence:

In post 525, Venmar wrote:
IceGuy is
either
scum
or
he is trying to push another mislynch.

Also answers DeltaWave.

IceGuy · Post Post #556 (ISO) » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:25 am

Not sure what to make of whatever absta did. I had him down as possible third scum but that bizarre behavior actually made him town since I don't think he'd do something like that if both scum are already exposed because of the gambit.

Scott Brosius · Post Post #557 (ISO) » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:25 am

Venmar is still reading new player excited to get a guilty to me, not mastermind scum.

Venmar · Post Post #558 (ISO) » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:34 am

I hate being classified as new.

People need to reconsider IceGuy scum.

DeltaWave · Post Post #559 (ISO) » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:29 pm

I'm going to be on very sparingly until Thursday, since I'm taking the bar exam next week

Natalie · Post Post #560 (ISO) » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:20 pm

Absta voted me, forgot why he voted, and replaced out. What's up with that?

Scott Brosius · Post Post #561 (ISO) » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:25 pm

Well if he actually got a guilty, he would know that it would be on Natalie not ConfidAnon, since she had already replaced by then. But the initial vote is on ConfidAnon.

Venmar · Post Post #562 (ISO) » Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:38 am

The activity in this game just DIED.

In post 555, IceGuy wrote:
In post 530, DeltaWave wrote:
Ice, other than the events of yesterday, what do you have on Venmar?

He doesn't play like a cop who got a guilty.

- Why? You do realize i only had 1 investigation all game. You can't treat me as if i was a full fledged cop. IF you only have 1 shot at investigating, and you hit scum, you lynch that scum because your a VT from that point on.

In post 555, IceGuy wrote:
The rest is repetitions, AtE ("This is stupid, is this setup going to penalize any cop who got a guilty? Because this is just frustrating, it makes claiming on this setup really hard.") and a few questions.

- The thing you use as an example was the only time i said that, thus not a repetition.

IceGuy · Post Post #563 (ISO) » Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:53 am

In post 562, Venmar wrote:The activity in this game just DIED.

Thanks for making this incredibly insightful, non-trivial observation.

- Why? You do realize i only had 1 investigation all game. You can't treat me as if i was a full fledged cop. IF you only have 1 shot at investigating, and you hit scum, you lynch that scum because your a VT from that point on.

I'm referring to your "LYNCH NOW DON'T THINK DON'T DISCUSS" behavior, followed by "What, IceGuy is against rushing the lynch through without thinking and/or discussion? LYNCH HIM NEXT".

- The thing you use as an example was the only time i said that, thus not a repetition.

Yes. It was an AtE, though, and that's what my sentence was saying.

Venmar · Post Post #564 (ISO) » Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:21 pm

In post 563, IceGuy wrote:

- Why? You do realize i only had 1 investigation all game. You can't treat me as if i was a full fledged cop. IF you only have 1 shot at investigating, and you hit scum, you lynch that scum because your a VT from that point on.

I'm referring to your "LYNCH NOW DON'T THINK DON'T DISCUSS" behavior, followed by "What, IceGuy is against rushing the lynch through without thinking and/or discussion? LYNCH HIM NEXT".

- Still doesn't really answer what i addressed. I got a guilty, what was there to discuss other than who his partners could be? You were all like " Wait.. uuh... what? No No let's NOT lynch, even if he was confirmed scum ". I don't think you realize how stupid of a gambit this would be between me and FuDuzn, and it obviously isn't "perfect" like you made it out to be because you seemingly "figured" it out, even though it isn't true.

IceGuy, if you had to choose a second lynch target other than me, who would it be?

IceGuy · Post Post #565 (ISO) » Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:32 pm

- Still doesn't really answer what i addressed. I got a guilty, what was there to discuss other than who his partners could be?

This is what I was doing, by advancing the gambit theory. This is what you were doing:

In post 372, Venmar wrote:I got a guilty, now we lynch.

In post 374, Venmar wrote:Classic OMGUS by FuDuzn. Why would i say I got a guilty on you? BECAUSE I DID.

Guys.

In post 381, Venmar wrote:
Guys, cmon, let's lynch.

In post 384, Venmar wrote:IceGuy is second scum. Great guys, we are on a roll.

In post 399, Venmar wrote:There's not much to wait for, we are lynching scum.

You were all like " Wait.. uuh... what? No No let's NOT lynch, even if he was confirmed scum ".

In post 409, IceGuy wrote:
To clarify this, I want both Venmar and FuDuzn lynched, but don't particularly care about the order.

I don't think you realize how stupid of a gambit this would be between me and FuDuzn, and it obviously isn't "perfect" like you made it out to be because you seemingly "figured" it out, even though it isn't true.

Explain why that gambit would be "stupid".

IceGuy, if you had to choose a second lynch target other than me, who would it be?

Natalie, for contributing very little and the questionable quality of her few contributions. ConfidAnon was a null read.

absta101 was my previous second suspect, but his latest behavior changed that and wants me to wait for his replacement.

Venmar · Post Post #566 (ISO) » Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:37 pm

I have no idea on how to argue with you anymore.

Why would ConfidAnon make sense as my partner at all? If we were to pull off this "gambit", why would he have tried to buss me both day 1 and day 2?

What made you so suspicious of absta?

IceGuy · Post Post #567 (ISO) » Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:47 pm

In post 566, Venmar wrote:I have no idea on how to argue with you anymore.

How about addressing the points in my post? You said "what was there to discuss other than who his partners could be", yet didn't make any effort in that direction except for two sentences, one saying that Scott and I are "gut scum", and the other one accusing me of being scum after advancing the gambit theory? You claimed the gambit would be stupid, why?

Why would ConfidAnon make sense as my partner at all? If we were to pull off this "gambit", why would he have tried to buss me both day 1 and day 2?

Because bussing happens, and him continuing his suspicions for two days isn't extraordinary either, just dropping his suspicions on you would've been suspicious, and it was clear Mala was the lynch on D2.

What made you so suspicious of absta?

His flip-flopping around the Mala wagon on D2 and him pushing the FuDuzn lynch in a similar way as you on D3.

Venmar · Post Post #568 (ISO) » Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:06 pm

In post 567, IceGuy wrote:
In post 566, Venmar wrote:I have no idea on how to argue with you anymore.

How about addressing the points in my post? You said "what was there to discuss other than who his partners could be", yet didn't make any effort in that direction except for two sentences, one saying that Scott and I are "gut scum", and the other one accusing me of being scum after advancing the gambit theory? You claimed the gambit would be stupid, why?

- Well, Scott is just gut and i might be leaning away from a Scott lynch. Gut still tells me that he is a good target due to previous events. An alternative to Scott could be Dwayne or Absta. Natalie made a prediction before last day ended, that it was possible that DeltaWave could have gotten an innocent result on Scott, where the " town as fuck" read would have made sense, and especially followed by his behavior of not wanting to explain it for a short while. I don't want to rolefish here, Delta you don't have to answer this, but if this could be answered, we will have a 4 man lynch pool to choose from. ( IceGuy, Dwayne, Absta, Natalie ).

- Why would I buss FuDuzn only to be caught by you, like now? You clearly saw the way i dealt with the lynch wasn't very subtle or concealing, so i was bound to attract attention. So why would I be the one bussing FuDuzn rather than the other way around, where as FuDuzn would have done a much better job at it? He wasn't under as much heat as me, so wouldn't his claim be extra believable? Plus he is more experienced and a better talker than me. Furthermore, why wouldn't my partners have told me to execute it in a better fashion as to not attract your attention as i have now? The only thing about my claim that points to me being scum is possibly the timing, which i admit was suspicious, but i claimed ASAP and the fact i was under heat was just a coincidence.

In post 567, IceGuy wrote:

Why would ConfidAnon make sense as my partner at all? If we were to pull off this "gambit", why would he have tried to buss me both day 1 and day 2?

Because bussing happens, and him continuing his suspicions for two days isn't extraordinary either, just dropping his suspicions on you would've been suspicious, and it was clear Mala was the lynch on D2..

- But why would he keep attempting to buss me if we were planning to do the "gambit"?

DeltaWave · Post Post #569 (ISO) » Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:18 pm

In the interests of avoiding rolefishing, let me say this:

If I flip doctor, I protected Scott on night 1.
If I flip cop, I investigated Scott on night 1.

IceGuy · Post Post #570 (ISO) » Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:21 pm

In post 568, Venmar wrote:
- Well, Scott is just gut and i might be leaning away from a Scott lynch. Gut still tells me that he is a good target due to previous events. An alternative to Scott could be Dwayne or Absta. Natalie made a prediction before last day ended, that it was possible that DeltaWave could have gotten an innocent result on Scott, where the " town as fuck" read would have made sense, and especially followed by his behavior of not wanting to explain it for a short while. I don't want to rolefish here, Delta you don't have to answer this, but if this could be answered, we will have a 4 man lynch pool to choose from. ( IceGuy, Dwayne, Absta, Natalie ).

Interestingly, you haven't mentioned SAD or Natalie as a possible scum suspect before, you didn't give a reason for any of your four scum suspects, and you did not bother to look for relational tells. This is not genuine scumhunting.

- Why would I buss FuDuzn only to be caught by you, like now? You clearly saw the way i dealt with the lynch wasn't very subtle or concealing, so i was bound to attract attention. So why would I be the one bussing FuDuzn rather than the other way around, where as FuDuzn would have done a much better job at it? He wasn't under as much heat as me, so wouldn't his claim be extra believable? Plus he is more experienced and a better talker than me. Furthermore, why wouldn't my partners have told me to execute it in a better fashion as to not attract your attention as i have now? The only thing about my claim that points to me being scum is possibly the timing, which i admit was suspicious, but i claimed ASAP and the fact i was under heat was just a coincidence.

Actually, you investigating FuDuzn makes a lot more sense than the other way round, because you were under heavy fire. Investigating a player that is likely getting lynched is a lost investigation - he's getting lynched anyway. There weren't a lot of solid FuDuzn reads though.

Also, I'm pretty sure you didn't intend to behave in a scummy way, but that's true for anybody. I can imagine you (plural) deciding you (singular) should play the cop in the hope of your behavior getting explained away as "newbtown excited to have found scum".

- But why would he keep attempting to buss me if we were planning to do the "gambit"?

Because the gambit is only a good idea if scum doesn't get lynched early, and you probably thought of it only later. Just dropping the bus would've been too suspicious, as said above.

Natalie · Post Post #571 (ISO) » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:15 pm

I don't think Venmar did what you are accusing him of, Iceguy. I don't like how you keep harping on it either.

DeltaWave · Post Post #572 (ISO) » Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:09 am

In post 568, Venmar wrote:we will have a 4 man lynch pool to choose from. ( IceGuy, Dwayne, Absta, Natalie ).

nevertheless, this is an adequate lynch pool

also be back on thursday

who knows I may check in once or twice before then

Ser Arthur Dayne · Post Post #573 (ISO) » Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:09 am

Prod-dodge.

I'm still alive...

Venmar · Post Post #574 (ISO) » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:32 am

In post 570, IceGuy wrote:This is not genuine scumhunting.

- Funny, you think i am scum but still expect me to scumhunt? I thought scum couldn't scumhunt...

In post 570, IceGuy wrote:
Actually, you investigating FuDuzn makes a lot more sense than the other way round, because you were under heavy fire. Investigating a player that is likely getting lynched is a lost investigation - he's getting lynched anyway. There weren't a lot of solid FuDuzn reads though.

- Doesn't explain how you thought the gambit was "perfect", and how it worked out for me.

In post 570, IceGuy wrote:
Also, I'm pretty sure you didn't intend to behave in a scummy way, but that's true for anybody. I can imagine you (plural) deciding you (singular) should play the cop in the hope of your behavior getting explained away as "newbtown excited to have found scum".

- I didn't use the "newbtown that found a scum" as a excuse, others have done so for me. I am a N2 cop, i didn't hope for anything but to get my guilty lynched.

@Delta, out of that "possible" lynch pool, which two do you think are the likeliest to be scum?