NY 154: Return to Boring Town - Game Over

[Empking]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=650

[Empking]

That was to Salam.

[Salamence20]

Not going on empkings wagon just yet.

I think MoI is town.

Only wagons i would go for is TF or PM.

Again, whats the win condition for a SK?

[Toon Fighter]

Toon Fighter played very intermittently as he is now as my Mason Partner in another game long ago. He was a rather useless lump even as confirmed. This is my second game with him, and he is exhibiting the same behavior. This makes me sad.

thx toog

[Salamence20]

Toon Fighter played very intermittently as he is now as my Mason Partner in another game long ago. He was a rather useless lump even as confirmed. This is my second game with him, and he is exhibiting the same behavior. This makes me sad.

thx toog

If anyone asks, this is why i would vote TF, he hasnt posted anything related to scumhunting, and we probably wont hear from him for another week.

[Toon Fighter]

geez, stop soft threatening me and just vote. I don't like that attitude, you just keep pinching away at people and don't take a stand. If you want to see me being lynched, at least vote me

[Toon Fighter]

Also, the win condition for a SK is usually surviving the endgame

[Salamence20]

geez, stop soft threatening me and just vote. I don't like that attitude, you just keep pinching away at people and don't take a stand. If you want to see me being lynched, at least vote me

Thats hardly a case. I dont think i would have enough steam for your wagon.

Also, the win condition for a SK is usually surviving the endgame

Thanks.

[Toon Fighter]

GAAAH just lynch sala already. If you THINK I should be lynched, you should VOTE me. YOU are at L-2, and likely to be lynched. The other wagons aren't getting steam. You just play too softly! Fight your lynch, provoke people, VOTE for someone! Even if you end up getting lynched, at least you know you've tried your best. If you don't even vote ME now (or anyone else for that matter) I doubt you'll last long in ANY game in this website. FIGHT for your life, being scum or town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI
You are right. You could be third party, but I have not been in a game with a third party yet and the thought didn't cross my mind. Still, calling you town if Salamence is scum is not buddying, no matter what you say. The fact you are so adamant about the possibility of a third party makes me think you might be third party.

Why didn’t it cross your mind that a third-party could exist in the game? Furthermore why are you still discounting any possibility of Multi-scum?

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Im not sure about any of these wagons. Im not confident in my reads to vote Empking. I would prefer rofl over empking today anyways.

Only wagons i would go for is TF or PM.

Again, whats the win condition for a SK?

What changed in under 25 posts to remove Rofl from your list? Why PMyst?

And to clarify Toon’s answer – the usual win condition of a Serial Killer is something along the lines of “Being the last player alive, or when nothing can prevent this from happening”. That’s a more accurate representation of the Serial Killer wincon.

MoI: could I get a link to a finished scum game please.

Here you go – Completed Scum Game

Now tell me … what is that going to tell you? I’d like your detailed reasons for asking for it as opposed to doing the legwork yourself.

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geez, stop soft threatening me and just vote. I don't like that attitude, you just keep pinching away at people and don't take a stand. If you want to see me being lynched, at least vote me

This post made towards Sala (who you are voting) doesn’t read to me as someone addressing scum …

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Not quoting this wall. I can say that I am actually not getting as much information from D1 as you say is available. I get some townreads from the way D1 played out, but have serious difficulties finding any scumreads. I'm not sure we can analyse the wagon the way you claim either. I have been in games in which the entire scumteam bussed D1.

We’ve all been in games where at some point a scum was power-bussed. Can you link me to any games you have played in where one of the strongest possible scum Roles was power-bussed Day 1 by the rest of the scum-team? It's not something I can ever recall seeing myself ...

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Toon Fighter played very intermittently as he is now as my Mason Partner in another game long ago. He was a rather useless lump even as confirmed. This is my second game with him, and he is exhibiting the same behavior. This makes me sad.

He also played that way as Mafia in Mina’s Crushing Independent Thought Large Normal so it isn’t alignment indicative.

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MOI: If you don't mean that IAI was bussing then don't use the word bussing. It's not playing semantics if you refuse to say what you mean. If you want to say "It's absurd that three players would vote Pres by page three" then say that, I can't read minds. Now I would say that is incorrect and I suggest that you look at the page three vote count. You may want to say "It's absurd that three scum players would vote Pres by page three" then say that, I can't read minds. I would disagree saying that there is no logical justification for presuming that any given scum will base their Prescending votes based on their fellow scumbags votes or at least no justification for them being disincentivised to vote Pres.

Again … I’ve clearly said IAI did bus Presc since he wagonned him to lynch. You are the one making it a terminology issue when my usage was reasonable and accurate.

I don’t think that with only three scum members in a 17 person game that both partners would power-bus their Godfather. That’s pretty much kills any chance they have of achieving a Win given the raw number of mislynches that would have to happen, nevermind that a Cop / Doc combo pretty much means Game Over via strong PoE. If you think there are only three scum (and I know you said maybe 3 maybe 4) you shouldn’t be looking on the wagon.

To my mind same goes for a 4 member scum team. The only way I see that looking on-wagon for scum is good play for today is if the scum team started with 5 members (which seems excessive but is set-up dependant). So again – I don’t think your focus on making sure to lynch from on the wagon with very, very weak reasoning is indicative of a Town Role PM.

The statement "It is absurd that all three scum would bus their Godfather straight out of the gate" is reasonable. The statement "It's absurd that three scum players would vote Pres by page three" is not. If you're forced to twist words and the truth to get your position to stand up to scrutiny then it isn't a good position.

No what’s absurd is that your are trying to somehow suggest both sentences above are not equivalent given the game-state.

Is that a yes or a no?

It’s neither. It’s an answer to your question that is very clear. Again you are worrying about making arguments based on semantics (You didn’t specifically answer Yes or No) as opposed to actually dealing with the information presented.

1. I am trying to understand your position.

Part of me wants to say something like “Is that a Yes or a No?” to be a smart-ass. But let’s deal with your answer … I think my position is very clear. I’m not for lynching Sala for what is either a dumb slip or dumb post (depending on him being Scum or Town respectively) when his Day 1 vote and play don’t read as scum to me and we have a claimed Vig who can chose to solve that problem. What about that is hard to understand and with it clearly stated how does the question aid in getting a read (since you keep calling me Nullish).

So let’s get to the reasoning for voting Rofl … you are suggesting he was late to the wagon and thus scum, correct?

Why shouldn’t I be looking at the players who ignored the wagon completely? Why is that not a possible scum motivated play?

[MagnaofIllusion]

GAAAH just lynch sala already. If you THINK I should be lynched, you should VOTE me. YOU are at L-2, and likely to be lynched. The other wagons aren't getting steam. You just play too softly! Fight your lynch, provoke people, VOTE for someone! Even if you end up getting lynched, at least you know you've tried your best. If you don't even vote ME now (or anyone else for that matter) I doubt you'll last long in ANY game in this website. FIGHT for your life, being scum or town.

And another post that doesn't read as Toon addressing an actual scum suspect ...

Why would you care if Scum-Sala rolled over and died if you are Town?

[Toon Fighter]

At this point, really, I don't really care if Sala is town or scum (he is actually starting to lean town based on his last posts), but his attitude, man, his attitude... He just deserves the lynch for it, to teach him something and to see if he plays the next game better.

[Salamence20]

At this point, really, I don't really care if Sala is town or scum (he is actually starting to lean town based on his last posts), but his attitude, man, his attitude... He just deserves the lynch for it, to teach him something and to see if he plays the next game better.

Im sorry, explain something.

What would you rather want from me, voting without a case (which might I add, you did) or telling you that my scum reads are weak and not vote anyone yet.

[Salamence20]

MoI: if I had to choose a current wagon, i would choose rofl over empking. If i wanted a new wagon, i would go for TF, then PM.

[Salamence20]

Also,

MoI: I could of looked myself, but I am lazy. Thanks.

Plus I know I am not going to get much from a guy who does the same thing on both teams, but maybe a closer look in the future for reference.

[Velazanth]

VOTE: salamance

[Salamence20]

Where the fuck?^

[VisceraEyes]

Is that L-1 because I was about to do the same thing.

We just killed TWO scum, indecision isn't something townies are going through right now.

Like, why are you afraid of starting a new wagon? Why are you afraid of jumping on an existing wagon? The fact that you keep justifying NOT voting for someone is SO damning bro.

[Salamence20]

*sigh*

Im L-3

Vote: ROFL

[MagnaofIllusion]

At this point, really, I don't really care if Sala is town or scum (he is actually starting to lean town based on his last posts), but his attitude, man, his attitude... He just deserves the lynch for it, to teach him something and to see if he plays the next game better.

So you basically want to policy lynch him to do what … teach him a lesson? That’s what I am reading here. I don’t seem to recall that sort of thing working on players like Shotty or Furc in the past so why exactly are you willing to lynch someone you admit is likely Town? If you were saying he’s scummy that’s one thing but this is actually quite scummy itself.

[Toogeloo]

so why exactly are you willing to lynch someone you admit is likely Town?

Now who's straw manning? Toon said he didn't care if he was scum or town... he never admitted to calling Sal "likely town."

[MagnaofIllusion]

At this point, really, I don't really care if Sala is town or scum (

he is actually starting to lean town based on his last posts

), but his attitude, man, his attitude... He just deserves the lynch for it, to teach him something and to see if he plays the next game better.

So Toog ... does bolding help with your reading?

[Toogeloo]

That's not claiming someone "likely town" though.

[MagnaofIllusion]

That's not claiming someone "likely town" though.

So you wish to play the Empking semantics game also? Granting you 100% that the use of likely is not an exact analouge for leaning what about my point was invalid?

Is Toon not saying he wants to lynch someone as punishment to improve their play even though he currently thinks they are more likely by some margin no matter how small to be Town than Scum?

I'd like your thoughts on that Toog.

[mcqueen]

@MagnaOfIllusion - No.

VOTE: MagnaOfIllusion