NY 154: Return to Boring Town - Game Over

[Nocmen]

Vote Count 9

Salamence20 - 1( Arugula)
roflcopter - 3(Empking, Tangion, Velazanth, Toogeloo)
Empking - 5(roflcopter, MagnaOfIllusion, VisceraEyes, PMysterious, Salamence20)
MagnaOfIllusion - 1(mcqueen)
ToonFighter - 1 (nhammen)
PMysterious - 2(McStab, Toon Fighter)

Not Voting - 0()

14 alive, takes 8 to lynch

Prodding Velazanth and VisceraEyes; Tangion gets prodded tomorrow from VLA

[Salamence20]

Mod: TF has voted PM

[Nocmen]

Mod: TF has voted PM

Fixed

[VisceraEyes]

Ohai town! Gosh, I really wish we could get a hammer all up on Empking.

Sala

you need to stop typing in bold big type. It feels contrived - like you're trying to inflate your content not by amount but by size. Effing stop it. You're still my second best guess for scum atm.

MoI is looking town to me, but his avatar is scary.

As for the rest of you, I'M WATCHING YOU!

[MagnaofIllusion]

This day just keeps going around in circles. You people realize we have 2 dead scum out of 3 dead players, right? Just lynch someone that's going to give us info for Day 3 and let's move on... Boring Town is Boring.

Salamence20 - 1( Arugula)
roflcopter - 3(Empking, Tangion, Velazanth, Toogeloo)
Empking - 5(roflcopter, MagnaOfIllusion, VisceraEyes, PMysterious, Salamence20)
MagnaOfIllusion - 1(mcqueen)
ToonFighter - 1 (nhammen)
PMysterious - 2(McStab, Toon Fighter)

Not Voting - 0()

So what exactly is your reason for complaining when you have your vote parked on a bad not-viable wagon again?

--

Ohai town! Gosh, I really wish we could get a hammer all up on Empking.

This …

[Toogeloo]

Nhammen... mcqueen... those are votes on non-viable wagons. Up until last page, rofl was the leading lynchee, and he still has four votes to empking's five.

I don't believe emp is scum though, nor do I really feel his lynch would be informative.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Nhammen... mcqueen... those are votes on non-viable wagons. Up until last page, rofl was the leading lynchee, and he still has four votes to empking's five.

I don't believe emp is scum though, nor do I really feel his lynch would be informative.

Then you were just complaining to complain then? ROFL isn't a good lynch. He's Town in almost all likelyhood and I've yet to see anything close to a compelling case as to why not.

How is ROFL's lynch any more informative than Empkings?

[Toogeloo]

I am complaining, yes. That doesn't mean we should just up and lynch anyone though. Empking is being voted solely because he wasn't on Prec's wagon and he disagrees with your plan to only lynch peiple not on that wagon. I agree with Emp that your rationale behind that does.not give us any information and you coul likely hit scum just as easily on the wagon. In fact, I would argue it's more likely scum would jump on at the end of the wagon to appear more town.

I don' t think scum anticipated losing another member during the evening, so they wouldn't be scared of bussing a super scummy member knowing that it would at least give them a little town cred. Rofl's hammer accomplishes both a chance to gain cred and end the day early, which makes him the better candidate. He's also received the most resistance to wagon today. Empking has no connections and he has an opinion which you disagree with, which is really the only thing you have argued with him against all day and tried to paint as scummy.

[Empking]

I think about it, and I changed my mind, this is bullshit. Now he's ignoring me. But this his is scum meta from another game, dodging questions and the like, but seriously man, answer, or get rope.

When did I ignore you?

I never ignored a question. I failed to fulfill a request but since "list every game that can be found with all the scum on a D1 scum wagon" is a ridiculous request I don't think I can be blamed for not asking MOI "how high?" (plus he'd attack me for dealing with semantics.)

VE: Do you think IAI was bussing Presc when the latter was lynched?

[Salamence20]

UNVOTE: Empking
VOTE: ROFL

Something bothers me again.

What if MoI is possible scum defending his scumbuddy?

@Empking: Well if it was me, I would of told MoI to fuck off, I'm not going game searching for something so hard to find, but thats just me. Ignoring questions is a scum-tell for me, but (I guess) I can see exceptions...

Hey MoI, find me 2 games with such a condition, it's not like you have been doing much lately other than attacking people for being on ROFL's wagon.

Also, tell me what what information we get from such lynches today:

Sala flips scum
Sala flips town

Empking flips scum
Empking flips town

ROFL flips scum
ROFL flips town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I am complaining, yes. That doesn't mean we should just up and lynch anyone though. Empking is being voted solely because he wasn't on Prec's wagon and he disagrees with your plan to only lynch peiple not on that wagon. I agree with Emp that your rationale behind that does.not give us any information and you coul likely hit scum just as easily on the wagon. In fact, I would argue it's more likely scum would jump on at the end of the wagon to appear more town.

I don' t think scum anticipated losing another member during the evening, so they wouldn't be scared of bussing a super scummy member knowing that it would at least give them a little town cred. Rofl's hammer accomplishes both a chance to gain cred and end the day early, which makes him the better candidate. He's also received the most resistance to wagon today. Empking has no connections and he has an opinion which you disagree with, which is really the only thing you have argued with him against all day and tried to paint as scummy.

Well let's address what I find wrong with this ...

1. Let's be clear ... the reason Empking is being wagonned is that he actively ignored Presc and the Presc wagon. It's not simply that he wasn't on the wagon ... it's that he actively ignored it. There is a difference between this and "not being on the wagon" (which applies to many others).
2. Your argument that "scum were more likely to jump on late" is a self-serving and flawed argument. Similar to Empking you didn't address Pres and now are arguing that scum are more likely to be bussing than not when it is pretty clear early / RVS wagons rarely go to lynch and they don't go to lynch on scum important Power-roles.
3. Your 'scum didn't anticipate losing a member' is a straw-man. Of course scum probably didn't anticipate that. That fact has nothing to do with motivations for anyone.
4. Your "ROFL did it for Town credit" argument is invalid since he's clearly not gotten tons of Town credit (given he got significant votes today) for hammering Presc and it would have been much more beneficial for him as scum to allow Presc to claim and draw out a Town Powerrole.
5. Saying that there hasn't been significant resistance to lynching Emp is ludicrous.

You keep also dodging the question about why ROFL's wagon is more 'informative'. Arguing that Empking doesn't have links is invalid. We've got plenty of links established by today's play. If you had reasons why ROFL is more informative other than "Toog says so".

[MagnaofIllusion]

What if MoI is possible scum defending his scumbuddy?

So you are thinking that the following is true …

There are at least 4 total Mafia scum. 3 (IAI, MoI, ROFL) all power-bussed a fourth member.

Am I seeing this right?

@Empking: Well if it was me, I would of told MoI to fuck off, I'm not going game searching for something so hard to find, but thats just me. Ignoring questions is a scum-tell for me, but (I guess) I can see exceptions...

Hey MoI, find me 2 games with such a condition, it's not like you have been doing much lately other than attacking people for being on ROFL's wagon.

Derp. That’s all I can say. DERP in All Caps.

Do you have any clue Sala? I ask because the point is that Emp isn’t going to find said games (RVS power-wagons on Godfathers / Roleblockers Day 1). That’s the whole fucking point. His entire premise behind his wagon on ROFL is that it’s likely scum did that when it’s crystal fucking clear that doesn’t ever happen.

Also, tell me what what information we get from such lynches today:

Sala flips scum
Sala flips town

Empking flips scum
Empking flips town

ROFL flips scum
ROFL flips town.

Sala / Emp / ROFL flip scum – we have links to examine to see who defended those players agains lynch.

Sala / Emp / ROFL flip Town – we can examine the quality of the arguments and votes made against said players to hopefully find scum.

Now some questions to you Sala

–

Why do you think there MUST be scum in yourself / Empking / ROFL?
If Empking and ROFL both flip Town should we immediately lynch you?
What are your reads on the following players – Arugula, Velaz, Toog, McStab Toon Fighter? Why are your reads such?

[Toogeloo]

1 & 2 are both circumstantial considering the day ended so quickly that most people not on the Prec lynch would appear to have ignored it. This alone makes your argument flawed as it's just as likely those of us off the wagon simply never had enough motivation to comment on it. It's just as self serving to your argument to use a short day against us when in all likelihood, town is going to miss a chance at commenting on something like that.

3 & 4. Actually, it is you straw manning my point. Mafia is a marathon, not a sprint. The scum team sacrificing a power member as weak as Prec seems acceptable if they think they might get town cred. They would not assume a lost member, and just because they think they are doing it for town cred doesn't mean it was done right. Obviously you think rofl is town, so it worked on some level, right? It's sad for them they lost another member, but maybe he shouldn't have been so obvious either.

5. I can't even respond to this because I never said he was getting resistance. There is an equal split of people wanting Emp lynched to wanting rofl lynched, and everyone else on some other wagon is doing exactly what you are accusing Emp of doing and ignoring both wagons to pursue their personal crusade.


And I am not dodging any questions. I specifically stated we just need to lynch someone that is going to give us info. I never stated one person gives more or less info than someone else.

[Arugula]

UNVOTE: Salamence
VOTE: Empking

Salamence's lynch isn't happening today, and I am willing to lynch Empking based on his ignorance of the Prescending wagon. And even if he is town, we already have two scum down and it's not that big a deal. We do need to get things moving though.

[MagnaofIllusion]

1 & 2 are both circumstantial considering the day ended so quickly that most people not on the Prec lynch would appear to have ignored it. This alone makes your argument flawed as it's just as likely those of us off the wagon simply never had enough motivation to comment on it. It's just as self serving to your argument to use a short day against us when in all likelihood, town is going to miss a chance at commenting on something like that.

Um what? Let’s examine the elements of this dismissal.

1. Both are circumstantial – this is Mafia … of course the cases are ‘circumstantial’. Aside from ‘Lulz Follow the Cop’ scenarios in Mafia games all cases and evidence is circumstantial. It is looking at facts and motives in play to find who is likely scum. So using this is simply rhetoric and not applicable as a defense. In fact I could use the same argument to undercut your own stance on why ROFL is scum.
2. As to ‘Not being motivated’ elements … using ‘oh, I’m apathetic’ isn’t a defense. There is scum motive in not drawing any more attention than necessary to a growing lynch on your partner in early game play.

3 & 4. Actually, it is you straw manning my point. Mafia is a marathon, not a sprint. The scum team sacrificing a power member as weak as Prec seems acceptable if they think they might get town cred. They would not assume a lost member, and just because they think they are doing it for town cred doesn't mean it was done right. Obviously you think rofl is town, so it worked on some level, right? It's sad for them they lost another member, but maybe he shouldn't have been so obvious either.

No, I’m not straw-manning. Scum don’t bus just to “Lulz, bus”. Anyone who tells you differently is lying. Regardless of how weak a player is (and that argument is also bad given the number of apparently weak players in the game) scum don’t bus just to bus for lulz on Page 3 and push a lynch through. Again - I am flat out saying that your (and Empking's) stance that scum are more likely to RVS / early game bus a powerful Scum role is fabricated and ludicrous.

And we are clearly at a cross-roads – you say my argument against Empking is ‘self-serving’ and I say yours against ROFL is as well.

5. I can't even respond to this because I never said he was getting resistance. There is an equal split of people wanting Emp lynched to wanting rofl lynched, and everyone else on some other wagon is doing exactly what you are accusing Emp of doing and ignoring both wagons to pursue their personal crusade.

You are the player who used as a point for your attack on ROFL the following –

Rofl's hammer accomplishes both a chance to gain cred and end the day early, which makes him the better candidate.

He's also received the most resistance to wagon today.

My point is disagreeing with this exact point … I think there is just as much resistance to lynching Empking as ROFL. I was pointing out that you were using poor logic in pushing your ROFL lynch.

And I am not dodging any questions. I specifically stated we just need to lynch someone that is going to give us info. I never stated one person gives more or less info than someone else.

You stated that I don't believe emp is scum though, nor do I really feel his lynch would be informative.. The implication is quite clear … you feel the a ROFL lynch would be more informative. And I’m asking you to indicate why and you have yet to do so.

[Toogeloo]

No, I’m not straw-manning.

Dude, the entire basis in how you have been playing has been to straw man other people.

Giving you a perfect example is how you keep demanding Empking to provide cases of speed lynches in other Mafia games, or demanding me to provide cases of how one lynch is more informative than another simply because I stated in an oh so condescending manner that the day is boring and we should just get to lynching someone that might provide us some info for Day 3. The obvious context of my complaint wasn't that our choices were uninformative, but that we were talking in circles and just get on with a lynch already... and it wasn't even aimed at anyone on either of the two leading wagons, but the people who had their votes on islands so we could get on with the day.

You pick specific things people say, and twist them into some form of rebuttal that you think is going to discredit their stance.


In reality, it doesn't do anything of the sort. I still feel as if everyone can be suspect, not just the people that didn't vote for Prec, and that it's more likely that scum are on the end of the wagon than not at all. You have ignored this point, but prefer to engineer some other aspect of my argument as being false or weak. You straw man, it's how you play, get over yourself.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Bullshit Toog. Just Bullshit. That's all I can say.

You've chosen once again to resort to attacking me (saying my scum-hunting is only straw-manning) as opposed to addressing the issues I have presented. That's attacking the person instead of the basis of their arguments and scummy. You imply that Empking is not a 'good lynch' for informational purposes but then avoid commenting on why ROFL is. Now you are back-tracking to say "any lynch is a good lynch" effectively. Well if you believe that why aren't you voting Empking? As you say we should "just get to lynching someone that might provide us with some info for Day 3".

Your stance, again, that scum are more likely to be on the end of a Page 3 lynch on a Mafia Godfather is crap. Your assessment isn't based at all on anything resembling reality. It's based on the fact that suspecting those off the wagon puts you in the spotlight as someone who ignored the Presc wagon (like Empking). It's self-serving and frankly transparently bad.

[Salamence20]

What if MoI is possible scum defending his scumbuddy?

So you are thinking that the following is true …

There are at least 4 total Mafia scum. 3 (IAI, MoI, ROFL) all power-bussed a fourth member.

Am I seeing this right?

Well you know me, I know nothing about how mafia acts. /sarcasm.

Tell me, since you have been in more games than I have, are you telling me, that it is Impossible to have all members bus their godfather. I know you are going to tell me something of the words of "highly unlikely," but there is a possibility because:

1. Prescending didn't really do much to save himself (McQueen intimitates me).
2. His lynch was impossible to get rid of mainly because of #1, so why shouldn't the scum just hop on and create separation?

Derp. That’s all I can say. DERP in All Caps.

Do you have any clue Sala? I ask because the point is that Emp isn’t going to find said games (RVS power-wagons on Godfathers / Roleblockers Day 1). That’s the whole fucking point. His entire premise behind his wagon on ROFL is that it’s likely scum did that when it’s crystal fucking clear that doesn’t ever happen.

I'm sure it has before, there have been alot of mafia games played. Just because it "doesn't happen" doesn't mean ROFL is 100% conftown.

Sala / Emp / ROFL flip scum – we have links to examine to see who defended those players agains lynch.

Sala / Emp / ROFL flip Town – we can examine the quality of the arguments and votes made against said players to hopefully find scum.

Now some questions to you Sala

–

Why do you think there MUST be scum in yourself / Empking / ROFL?
If Empking and ROFL both flip Town should we immediately lynch you?
What are your reads on the following players – Arugula, Velaz, Toog, McStab Toon Fighter? Why are your reads such?

1. Gut, I know I am town, and I feel one of them is scum. You already know my feelings on that.

2. Loooool. Is that a possible option? (seriously)

I mean if we lynch ROFL/Empking, and he flips town, I'm getting Vig'd

Hell, I don't see an option where I don't get vig'd tonight by VE, especially if Empking flips town.

3. Arugula - leaning scum (I feel she has been really quiet in this game, where I expect more from her as town)
Velaz - Null (Seems Pro-Empking and Anti-Rofl, which I like, but he seems to keep changing his mind on my alignment, from Sala is Derp-town to Sala must be lynched)
Toog - leaning town (gut)
McStab - leaning town (gut, seems to be doing more than Toog)
Toon - VI (there are soo many people I feel better lynching, he feels like a liability to town, however)

[Toogeloo]

You know what... you win MoI. I bow down to your superior argumentative skills. How could I have not seen the light earlier.

Unvote;
Vote: Empking

[Velazanth]

You know what... you win MoI. I bow down to your superior argumentative skills. How could I have not seen the light earlier.

Unvote;
Vote: Empking

that was a pretty abrupt about face.

[Toogeloo]

Sorry mate, tried to support your cause, but decided to take my own advice. 2 dead scum, 1 dead town. Any lynch to end this day is fine. It's obvious we have too many people unwilling to budge, thinking this is LyLo or something and don't want to screw it up. I figure any lynch is better than sitting here talking in circles for another week.

[Salamence20]

Bullshit^

its MoI's advice/reason.

[Nocmen]

Vote Count 9

roflcopter - 4(Empking, Tangion, Velazanth, Salamence20)
Empking - 6(roflcopter, MagnaOfIllusion, VisceraEyes, PMysterious, Arugula, Toogeloo)
MagnaOfIllusion - 1(mcqueen)
ToonFighter - 1 (nhammen)
PMysterious - 2(McStab, Toon Fighter)

Not Voting - 0()

14 alive, takes 8 to lynch

Prodding Tangion and mcqueen

[PMysterious]

Guys, the Empking lynch is gonna happen no matter what you do. You guys might as well help the rest of us out. I know I'm not a big fan of quick lynching, but this time, its going the distance. I mean, we already Lynched the Godfather AND we killed a Goon. What can go wrong now?

[Salamence20]

Guys, the Empking lynch is gonna happen no matter what you do. You guys might as well help the rest of us out. I know I'm not a big fan of quick lynching, but this time, its going the distance. I mean, we already Lynched the Godfather AND we killed a Goon. What can go wrong now?

This seems scummy...

But then again, it's PMmysterious

Empking, want to claim?