NY 154: Return to Boring Town - Game Over

[Empking]

MOI: Are you saying that accusing someone of strawmanning is scummy?
Also, what's the difference between passively ignoring a wagon and actively ignoring a wagon? (I didn't do either, I didn't notice the wagon.)

Claim: Jailkeeper Target: MOI.

[Salamence20]

Claim: Jailkeeper Target: MOI.

Sala 1, MoI 3

VOTE: ROFL

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also, what's the difference between passively ignoring a wagon and actively ignoring a wagon? (I didn't do either, I didn't notice the wagon.)

Um whut is this question? Ignoring the wagon is ignoring a wagon.

Claim: Jailkeeper Target: MOI.

Why did you choose to target me?

UNVOTE: Empking

If someone counter-claims you I’m back in a heartbeat but being this far ahead is little reason to lynch without a counter-claim.

[roflcopter]

well thats obviously a fakeclaim but whatever go ahead and lynch me today at least i can stop caring about all you idiots

[Arugula]

UNVOTE: Empking

[Empking]

Why did you choose to target me?

"killed night 1". I used my role as essentially a Doctor on N1 (with only three pages there's no real way to attempt to outguess who will send the kill with 16 players left).

You accused me of actively ignoring a wagon. The "actively" was deadweight but I didn't know that when I asked the question.

[Salamence20]

Arugula, what's your thoughts on the game? you have been awfully quiet this whole game and it bugs me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: ToonFighter

I'm going to follow nhammen's lead until we see a counter-claim or I get a good re-read of the other off-the-wagon folks.

[Salamence20]

Hey MoI, I was expecting a follow-up to the responses to your questions.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey MoI, I was expecting a follow-up to the responses to your questions.

Keep your pants on. I've got other things to deal with than just this game. You'll get your response at some point today.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Tell me, since you have been in more games than I have, are you telling me, that it is Impossible to have all members bus their godfather. I know you are going to tell me something of the words of "highly unlikely,"

Well the word impossible doesn’t apply to Mafia. But I’ll slot the chances that Presc was power-bussed by all his teammates as so unlikely it might as well be zero.

Put another way (in the words of Llamarble) – I’d be comfortable enough losing to the scum-team that did it if I’m wrong. Because it would require play that was so potentially damaging to scum’s wincon that the Risk / Reward is way too heavily slanted to Risk.

That said – evidence this is Multiball makes all bets off on this front as scum from the opposite team would not be bussing Presc.

I'm sure it has before, there have been alot of mafia games played. Just because it "doesn't happen" doesn't mean ROFL is 100% conftown.

1. I think the above addresses my thoughts on this well enough.
2. Where did I say ROFL is ‘100% confirmed Town”?

1. Gut, I know I am town, and I feel one of them is scum. You already know my feelings on that.

Gut isn’t a reason that holds any weight. If you can’t articulate why you think one of those two HAS to be scum in a way that relates to the game thread then your stance can’t be considered credible.

2. Loooool. Is that a possible option? (seriously)
I mean if we lynch ROFL/Empking, and he flips town, I'm getting Vig'd

Hell, I don't see an option where I don't get vig'd tonight by VE, especially if Empking flips town.

You didn’t answer the question. I was trying to gauge how strong your ‘gut’ feeling on this is. I'm not asking if you think you will get vigged. I'm asking - if both Emp and ROFL flip Town would it be a prudent move (from a not-Sala point of view) for Town to lynch you given your stance?

[nhammen]

I feel that in this game the term strawman is being thrown around a lot more often than it is actually happening, but in some cases it is valid. Such as the following:

Do you have any clue Sala? I ask because the point is that Emp isn’t going to find said games (RVS power-wagons on Godfathers / Roleblockers Day 1). That’s the whole fucking point. His entire premise behind his wagon on ROFL is that it’s likely scum did that when it’s crystal fucking clear that doesn’t ever happen.

That is not AT ALL what Empking's argument is. Both Empking and myself have stated what his argument is. I highly disagree with his argument, and so did you. But his argument is what you are calling fluff, not the hammer.

1 & 2 are both circumstantial considering the day ended so quickly that most people not on the Prec lynch would appear to have ignored it. This alone makes your argument flawed as it's just as likely those of us off the wagon simply never had enough motivation to comment on it. It's just as self serving to your argument to use a short day against us when in all likelihood, town is going to miss a chance at commenting on something like that.

Um what? Let’s examine the elements of this dismissal.

1. Both are circumstantial – this is Mafia … of course the cases are ‘circumstantial’. Aside from ‘Lulz Follow the Cop’ scenarios in Mafia games all cases and evidence is circumstantial. It is looking at facts and motives in play to find who is likely scum. So using this is simply rhetoric and not applicable as a defense. In fact I could use the same argument to undercut your own stance on why ROFL is scum.

Umm, rather than argue against his wording, you might want to try arguing against his argument. In case this was not intentional, his argument is that even though Empking and Toog ignored the wagon, the day ended so fast that a lot of people didn't have a chance to respond to the wagon. The proper response is: those other players are null with regards to the wagon, but Empking, Toog, and Toon posted at a time in which they had an opportunity to place themselves on the wagon and did not do so. It is that choice that makes these players scummy. If there are other players that didn't post during the wagon, this has no relevance to the fact that these three players ignored the wagon. Magna, you can thank me for making your argument for you later.

Guys, the Empking lynch is gonna happen no matter what you do. You guys might as well help the rest of us out. I know I'm not a big fan of quick lynching, but this time, its going the distance. I mean, we already Lynched the Godfather AND we killed a Goon. What can go wrong now?

And we did not get much info out of it. And now you want the same thing to happen again... I agree that this seems quite scummy.

Claim: Jailkeeper Target: MOI.

DAMN MAFIA KILLED MoI!!!

Well, that is a possible explanation for sala's comment. What are the chances of three kills a night in a game this size?

well thats obviously a fakeclaim but whatever go ahead and lynch me today at least i can stop caring about all you idiots

I'd rather not lynch either one of you.

evidence this is Multiball

Ummm... what? If there is some evidence for this that I have missed (unless you are saying that VE is the evidence, which I would disagree with) I'd like to know, because that would make sala's statement a LOT more relevant.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ummm... what? If there is some evidence for this that I have missed (unless you are saying that VE is the evidence, which I would disagree with) I'd like to know, because that would make sala's statement a LOT more relevant.

There isn't any evidence yet. That's my point. We have two deaths N1 one of which was immediately claimed. Unless you think Viscera is opposite scum to Red who took a HUGE gamble then we don't have any reason to conclude we are in Multiball.

If we are in Multiball Sala's "Oh my god they killed MoI" does look very much like scum who expected to have me dead and makes him auto-lynch.

But until we have more information (via total Nightkills or a different color scum flip) I'm working off the 1 Mafia theory.

[nhammen]

oooohhhhh. I see. I misread your statement.

[McStab]

Can we get off the claimed Jailkeeper and the guy who hammered the Godfather three pages into Day One and instead get on the prior-scummy, early-VT claiming, still pushing the lynch of Jailkeeper guy (PMysterious)?

I feel as though MoI-Empking is a huge town-town argument being egged on by scum like PM and potentially Sal (although Sal is definitely townier than PM). I could see Toon or Toog scum as well, but PM just SCREAMS scum, and it's a helluva lot less riskier to lynch a claimed VT (which, considering two scum are dead by Day Two, losing a VT is hardly a huge loss) than lynching a potential Jailkeeper.

[Salamence20]

Omg.

MoI, I'll reply when i get back to my computer, but i feel i need to state my thoughts:

Is multiball defined as (2 mafia groups) and/or (Mafia group + SK) and/or (2 mafia groups + SK)?

Prescending died a mafia roleblocker, not a red one. This is why i believe there is no multiball.

No nhammen, those two quotes have no link at all.

[McStab]

@Sal: What's your view on PMysterious?

[Arugula]

Arugula, what's your thoughts on the game? you have been awfully quiet this whole game and it bugs me.

What kind of question is that? I haven't been awfully quiet this whole game either.

[VisceraEyes]

UNVOTE: Empking

[VisceraEyes]

I can feasibly get behind a PM lynch.

[Salamence20]

Well, if a lynch towards ROFL isnt happening, PM would be my second choice, over Arugula and TF.

Hey Arugula, idk, but you seem to do more usually than in this game.

[mcqueen]

Ok, I had the thought of Salamence20, Empking, and roflcopter being town. To be honest, none are very scummy, Salamence20 just gives us a good deal of information, which I'd be willing to give him up for.

On this note, read the first page. Prescending starts to be a dick, now read PM's post (the one after Arugula replies, "No," to Prescending). He doesn't even question the dickiness of Prescending, nor comment on it, he simply assumes Prescending actually brought us out of RVS, hence unvotes. This is just genuinely scummy.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: PM

[roflcopter]

unvote, vote: arugula

telling pres to replace out looks like a scumpartner hoping a weak player can get replaced. plus moi's points against arug etc etc

i still want empking dead but with the claim it will work itself out in the next day or two

[Arugula]

No. I didn't want a player with a bad attitude in the game.

[Arugula]

And if this is multiball, MoI is probably scum.