NY Mafia 155 - New Age Mafia II - Game Over!

[Flameaxe]

Agar: Are you not voting because you don't want to put scooby at L-1, or because pickles?

[AGar]

Agar: Are you not voting because you don't want to put scooby at L-1, or because pickles?

Because pickles. I'd much rather see things shift to a non-scooby wagon, and I'm going to put together a coherent case in the next 28 hours to try and convince that shift to happen. If not, like I said, I will assist in a scooby killing. But we have time until deadline so I see no urgency in voting scooby, only in stepping up my game.

[Quagmire]

Can someone please link me to the previous setup?

[Tierce]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=9630

[Quagmire]

Thanks.

[Quagmire]

Apparently one that you aren't, since one of the gunsmith innocents is in your lynch list.

I don't see any reason to trust gunsmith innocents.

[Quagmire]

I don't get the case on scooby. He's a frustrated, lazy poster and people are just getting out-of-tune with his gimmick. What's the current case on him, a roleblock? I'm getting a pretty solid pro-town read on him.

Glork, care to explain why you've been hunting for simenon's head the past couple days, then voted scooby once today opened,

then

reread simenon?

Simenon, care to post something? If you can't get internet access for the next couple weeks, it might be a good idea to announce as such to not leave anyone hanging.

[Quagmire]

So, I'm looking at Rhinox right now. Claims mafia-bulletproof (?) in a game with fairly unsophisticated roles and one single one-shot vig. He's also been branded suspicious in the past and has gone under the radar since iamausername caught nhammen and singer became guilty. Can someone give me a good reason why I shouldn't vote for him?

Vote: Rhinox

[Quagmire]

I've got as-good-as-confirmed town reads on Hoopla and JDodge. Moderate town reads on scooby and bv. Scum reads on AGar, Rhinox... and Glork's given me a bad gut all game long.

[Hoopla]

Scum reads on AGar, Rhinox... and Glork's given me a bad gut all game long.

AGar is a confirmed killer - how can you classify him as mafia?

There's no way Glork proposes massclaim as scum here. I think it's obvious he did it because he believed town could get an edge from it, rather than trying to secure town credit from the ploy. If he were to do it as scum, he'd probably have to warn his buddies pregame and plan for it - because you really risk trapping your buddies if they react badly or claim poorly (like singer did). So, if they did plan for it pregame, why would singer fuck up so badly D1?

[JDodge]

Scum reads on AGar, Rhinox... and Glork's given me a bad gut all game long.

AGar is a confirmed killer - how can you classify him as mafia?

There's no way Glork proposes massclaim as scum here. I think it's obvious he did it because he believed town could get an edge from it, rather than trying to secure town credit from the ploy. If he were to do it as scum, he'd probably have to warn his buddies pregame and plan for it - because you really risk trapping your buddies if they react badly or claim poorly (like singer did). So, if they did plan for it pregame, why would singer fuck up so badly D1?

There's a slight theoretical possibility of some form of dual scumteams still on the table as well. I think we're not really as prepared for today as we are for tomorrow if that makes any sense.

[Hoopla]

If there were two scumteams, we would have got family names with the flips like in OGML's Mafia 95. The only way there are two scumteams is if there are werewolves - but that doesn't make sense given this is a sequel to a game with zero reference to werewolves, and the fact we haven't witnessed any additional kills this game.

[redFF]

vote:rhinox

prefer to scooby

[Quagmire]

Scum reads on AGar, Rhinox... and Glork's given me a bad gut all game long.

AGar is a confirmed killer - how can you classify him as mafia?

There's no way Glork proposes massclaim as scum here. I think it's obvious he did it because he believed town could get an edge from it, rather than trying to secure town credit from the ploy. If he were to do it as scum, he'd probably have to warn his buddies pregame and plan for it - because you really risk trapping your buddies if they react badly or claim poorly (like singer did). So, if they did plan for it pregame, why would singer fuck up so badly D1?

I use 'scum' to encompass anyone who's not pro-town. It's plausible he's SK.

Glork also defended singer extremely hard D1 and D2, further discounting the scum bandit. But I can't fight the feeling...as I said, it's all gut.

[Quagmire]

Flameaxe also suffers from "posts just enough; nothing substantive" disease, and should not be forgotten about. Same with redFF.

[Rhinox]

gah this is stupid. Flameaxe is dumb and doesn't know what he's doing and the rest of you are just being sheep. No one has given a single reason for why I'm scum that makes any sense at all.

-don't like my claim: idungiveafuk.gif... there's literally no reason whatsoever for me to claim that as scum, the only thing that makes sense is its my actual role.

-voting my neighbor: what is this bullshit?

-pushing to lynch the wrong scum D1: what is this bullshit?

-questioning a guilty (that everyone else was questioning) and not hammering 24hrs into the day and some other made up bullshit about singer not claiming that never actually happened.

Is this really the sort of bullshit that passes for "scumhunting" these days? If so I might as well just sit here and prod dodge until I'm released from my obligation to participate in whatever manner that occurs. I may have sounded like a naive infant way back during the time of the first new age mafia game but at least people cared and didn't cry "OMG WALLPOST TL;DR" if someone dared to post more than a few sentences back then.


Oh and

unvote vote tierce

because despite the gunsmith result and the fact that this is probably a pretty unpopular vote, her D1 actions surrounding both singer and nham make it pretty obvious to me she's scum.

[Hoopla]

Oh and

unvote vote tierce

because despite the gunsmith result and the fact that this is probably a pretty unpopular vote, her D1 actions surrounding both singer and nham make it pretty obvious to me she's scum.

But she's very likely to only be scum if bv310 is a scum Gunsmith. So, wouldn't it instead make more sense to vote bv, since bv could be scum independent of Tierce's alignment?

I think the existence of a scum Gunsmith is plausible, and if one is, it's probably bv310, given Quagmire has less incentive as scum to truly claim his role after seeing someone else claim it (not to mention needing to clear another townie). If both Gunsmiths are town, scum

could

have some kind of catch-all investigation immunity GF to Cops and Gunsmiths - but it isn't really the sort of thing we should be seriously considering on D2. We have many more obvious targets to get through first before we start exploring low-percentage territory.

[Quagmire]

In looking at the differences in power roles between New Age I and what we have claimed here, I'd be very surprised to see a godfather + scum power role...if anything, I think we'd see a repeat of 3 goons + GF (likely) or 3 goons + 1 power role (unlikely, unless that power role is powerful...for example, Staeg). The former is especially likely if the GF is gunsmith-immune and investigation-immune, given the information roles that are in this game.

[Quagmire]

I'm pretty set on Rhinox being the play today, I think. His roleclaim has me suspicious, considering how sophisticated his role is in comparison with all other claims...note he was the first one who had to claim, so he didn't have that observation to back up off if he was scum/SK. Also, remember he soft-claimed at the beginning as well. He's flown under my radar, so he passes the gut/sniff test too (or failed...depending on how you'd look at it). He is also not a role we would end up missing either if he is telling the truth and we are wrong, as his role advantage is negated by being out in the open.

[Hoopla]

In looking at the differences in power roles between New Age I and what we have claimed here, I'd be very surprised to see a godfather + scum power role...if anything, I think we'd see a repeat of 3 goons + GF (likely) or 3 goons + 1 power role (unlikely, unless that power role is powerful...for example, Staeg). The former is especially likely if the GF is gunsmith-immune and investigation-immune, given the information roles that are in this game.

New Age I had much less power than claimed this game. In other OGML games, he's shown he has a knack for creative design, with no real pattern in the amount of scum power he's given. In Mafia 95, he ran a game with asymmetrical scumteams, one with two players (with Encrytor/Double Immunity GF) and one with three players (with a Commuter). If it turns out there is no SK this game, that's enough indication to show he's not afraid to deviate from New Age I's structure, which means we shouldn't necessarily expect a repeat of scum power.

[Rhinox]

@hoopla: Well its the strongest read I have right now and seeing as pretty much no one is going to listen to me at all for the rest of the time I'm alive, I wanted that to be clear in the event I end up getting lynched.

I hadn't really considered bv310 scum, I was more thinking about it being a false negative, and I think there are enough possible reasons other than investigation immunity that makes it not really that much of a low percentage play. And I'm kinda having trouble separating the obvious targets from those I just don't like for reasons that are probably alignment independant.

[Hoopla]

I hadn't really considered bv310 scum, I was more thinking about it being a false negative, and I think there are enough possible reasons other than investigation immunity that makes it not really that much of a low percentage play.

Like what?

[Rhinox]

You mentioned scum commuter, I also thought of an unrecruited traitor, roleblocker on bv, rolestopper on tierce,

busdriver or redirector

wait this is a normal isn't it so I guess the last 2 are out.

[Hoopla]

bv got a result on Tierce - so that rules out everything you mentioned there except unrecruited Traitor. Whether you want to admit it or not, you are dabbling with low-percentage theories. For Tierce to be scum, one of the following must be true:

1) bv310 is scum and claimed a "no-gun" result on his buddy
2) Tierce is a GF immune to Gunsmiths
3) Tierce is an unrecruitable Traitor

~~

1) I doubt this to be true, since it's dependent on two variables being true instead of one, and also means, this is likely the last two scum, which is just really unlikely and means every other possible two player combination is false. Come on. It's also a lower risk play to go the wifom angle and claim an inno on a townie and set them up as your buddy if you ever flip scum.
2) There might be a GF immune to Gunsmiths (I put it at maybe a 25-50% chance), but it still needs to land on (of all people) Tierce. Very unlikely.
3) This is an extremely left-field role and barely worth considering, when the other alternate explanation is...

...she's town and you just happen to be wrong.

[Tierce]

Rhinox is town. He's trying to shoehorn a scumread in, regardless of night results that make his theory outlandish--he's not afraid to present them. I've been in that position; scum don't really do Wild Mass Guessing, it's something town do because town is not afraid they'll be laughed at. The extra information scum have on who their buddies are and what power they have (especially in this setup) means they're not too likely to make this kind of insane speculation, because it would simply be too out of left-field and they think it would be dismissed with laughter.
With a lot fewer players, when the game is on the line, it's a different thing, but the fact he's doing it now says town.