A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Minimum]

EBWOP: but the sarcasm in my response was obviously not "cheeky scumbag"...if I was "afraid" that his choosing himself meant

he'd vig me or a scumbuddy tonight

, I could have fucking moved my Choose off him.

[Shadow1psc]

"4) When the game has been open twenty-four hours, it's too early to base Choose or suggested vig targets based on who's not getting lynched today. (For example, I'd wager there's a very low chance that Minimum will actually get lynched today although it'll involve me failing my French test on Thursday--I start off a bit awkward sometimes, but my alignment generally shines through once I get into the game.)"

Basically this.

[Eddard Stark]

The Free Cities are a group of nine cities/states along the western coast of the eastern continent. They are Pentos, Tyrosh, Lorath, Myr, Lys, Braavos Volantis, Qohor and Norvos. (Fuck I had to look up Norvos, I am BAD)

Day 1, Votecount 12

MagnaofIllusion (1) - Shadow1psc
Mastermind of Sin (1) - sword_of_omens
Starbuck (3) - Feysal, redFF, Dolorous Edd
SnowStorm (2) - Plessiezarus, Regfan

Minimum (7) - MagnaofIllusion, Salamence20, Hasdgfas, Lyanna Stark, StefanB, Benmage, BBmolla

Petyr Baelish (1) - Mastermind of Sin
Benmage (1) - SnowStorm
Salamence20 (3) - pappums rat, Staeg, Minimum
Feysal (2) - Starbuck, Pandora
redFF (1) - Tyene Sand
BBmolla (1) - Hyperion
Dolorous Edd (1) - Jal

Not Voting (4):

Mockingjaye, Petyr Baelish, Bvoigt, Plum's Yo Mamma

With 28 alive it takes 15 to lynch.

• Deadline
  : 3rd September at 11:59pm Ireland time. (GMT+1)
  
• Countdown to deadline
  : (expired on 2012-09-03 18:59:59)
  
• redFF is V/la until Friday.

CHOOSE NAIVETY

MagnaofIllusion (2) - sword_of_omens, MagnaofIllusion
Tyene Sand (1) - Feysal
Dolorous Edd (2) - hasdgfas, Hyperion

Feysal (4) - Dolorous Edd, Salamence20, StefanB, BBmolla

Hasdgfas (1) - Shadow1psc

Minimum (4) - Pandora, Regfan, Tyene Sand, Plum's Yo Mamma

Starbuck (2) - Starbuck, Staeg
redFF (2) - Benmage, Minimum

Not Choosing (10):

Lyanna Stark, Mockingjaye, Petyr Baelish, redFF, pappums rat, Bvoigt, Plessiezarus, SnowStorm, Jal, Mastermind of Sin

With 28 alive it takes 15 to 'Choose'.

[SnowStorm]

What are your reads, so far? ~Zar.

I think Regfan and Benmage look town. I'm also getting townish vibes from Tyene and MoI. I think Feysal and Starbuck looked townish, they were getting some heat but I didn't find them suspicious.

I'm hesitant in giving D.Edd/Arthur a town read. His play seems to fit his usual town play, though he seems somewhat different. It's been harder for me to get a good read on him ever since he

turned to the dark side

started playing here.

I'm having a hard time getting a read on Minimum. The idea I have of Mina's town play is that I usually agree with her and get early town reads on her, which hasn't happened in this game, though I don't think she has posted much? As for CES, I don't really know how to read him and the freshest memory I have of his play is when he managed to survive a whole game as scum without doing anything but voting without reason. So, I'm kinda worried about them, I'd like to see more from Mina.

These are all just general impressions from the top of my head. I don't have any real scum-reads, most of the players haven't made any impression on me and I need to do some re-reads and ISO's.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote: Pandora

Choose: Pandora

Fuck anonymous hydras.

[Tyene Sand]

They are not anonymous, MoS, and if you bothered to read either them or the thread you'd realize their identity. Pandora is Quilford + Shadoweh, and your 'policy' reeks.

[Salamence20]

Hey Minimum, I noticed you have been ignoring my question, please answer it.

Nice try CES, since Molla has moved on to your wagon, what is your thoughts on him.

And most importantly, can you give me a reason for your vote, because molla apparently didn't have a reason.

Hey MoI, I also noticed you didn't see/care about my question, so I will ask it, because I am quite curious.

So MoI, why do you want to die? I don't see the scum motivation, no, but I don't see MoI's motivation to do so, what makes you think (if you are town) that you will hit scum?

Overall, why are you the best choice vs anyone else?

[Jal]

He used his brain while writing it

Having played a game with Sal, I honestly doubt that still.

Is brainless posting scum-Sal specific?

Aww, I don't even get a "hi" after all we've been through (Newbie 1237!!)

In any case, I voted Sal because I looked up at the VC and saw a decent wagon that I can add some pressure to. Plus I wanted Sal to contribute more.

About my unvote of Star, I thought she was genuinely confused when she said we should pick scum to target other scum or something like that which was just weird, but then it all just felt off when her idea didn't make sense at all, and I can't see where she's coming from.

You were scum and killed me N1. What didja expect?

All right. Far enough.

What are your thoughts on Minimum and that wagon?

On a side note, I feel like I'm missing out on the meta Minimum goodness.

[Lyanna Stark]

Okay. So, you thought that Tierce and I were playing let's switch and see who notices?

But, wait, you haven't seen much reason to push it or mention it before this. The only interaction you had with him was to tell him not to get too caught up in the flavor. Why didn't you try to interact with him to get a read on him?

It was more me being generically contrarian. I totally would've been jokingly implying that if I had thought of it though.

I'm lazy and I don't particularly think it's a big deal?

You have a scum read you decided you were too lazy to pursue

Hey, D.Edd, is all the content you've been posting purely Arthur content?

Yes.

Dolorous Edd

I don't think Alek's been posting, or if he has it hasn't been much at all. If he hasn't posted, why not? Please have him start posting. I'd like to feel more confident on my read on you guys. Thanks.

I'm not sure why he hasn't posted yet

But he said he was lost in the beginning and is trying to catch up, so he should show up soon

(As a note, I'm moving in to college this week, so it's going to be hectic and stuff, so I'll be V/LA for a bit.)

Good! ^^^ And for anyone wondering a continued reason for why I'm getting a town read on Edd. Good luck moving into college Arthur!!!

This is Mina, and I've skimmed the thread on my phone during my breaks, but didn't have enough time to post before. But before I catch up more thoroughly, here's an answer to a few points and questions directed at us

in which I am the model of reasonable and composed and pretend not to hate you all as much as I do

:

1) The only posts I've written this game were this, this, and this. (Fun fact, though, Tammy--I was actually going to make my first post a vote for BBmolla, since we'd agreed to choose MagnaofIllusion, but CES ninja'd me after I spoke to him about it on AIM.)

Hey! Those were the ones I was most sure were yours.

We're not lynching Hydrina or choosing them today.

Why not?

"4) When the game has been open twenty-four hours, it's too early to base Choose or suggested vig targets based on who's not getting lynched today. (For example, I'd wager there's a very low chance that Minimum will actually get lynched today although it'll involve me failing my French test on Thursday--I start off a bit awkward sometimes, but my alignment generally shines through once I get into the game.)"

Basically this.

This gave you a town read. Heh. Everything Mina stated in her wall was likely true enough, and absolutely none of it was alignment indicative.

What are your reads, so far? ~Zar.

I think

Regfan and

Benmage look town.

I'm also getting townish vibes from Tyene and MoI. I think Feysal and Starbuck looked townish, they were getting some heat but I didn't find them suspicious.

I'm hesitant in giving D.Edd/Arthur a town read. His play seems to fit his usual town play, though he seems somewhat different. It's been harder for me to get a good read on him ever since he

turned to the dark side

started playing here.

I'm having a hard time getting a read on Minimum. The idea I have of Mina's town play is that I usually agree with her and get early town reads on her, which hasn't happened in this game, though I don't think she has posted much? As for CES, I don't really know how to read him and the freshest memory I have of his play is when he managed to survive a whole game as scum without doing anything but voting without reason. So, I'm kinda worried about them, I'd like to see more from Mina.

These are all just general impressions from the top of my head. I don't have any real scum-reads, most of the players haven't made any impression on me and I need to do some re-reads and ISO's.

SnowStorm it must suck to come to MS and have your first role pm be scum. So, Benmage looks town to you does he? *glances up at vote count* Can you explain why you're still voting him then?

Is everyone pretty much null to you SnowStorm? Not one person you want to vote for and press

besides the one you just called town

? None?

[Mastermind of Sin]

They are not anonymous, MoS, and if you bothered to read either them or the thread you'd realize their identity. Pandora is Quilford + Shadoweh, and your 'policy' reeks.

Mod should totes update the first post then.

It's bad enough that there are hydras at all in this game, but an anonymous one would be unforgivable.

Unvote

Unchoose

[Minimum]

Salamence, do you believe that unexplained votes are scummy? Why are you so interested in BBmolla's and our votes on you--particularly when BBmolla has since unvoted and changed his mind?

CES's reasons when I asked were literally:

-You look scummy.
-You looked better in the game he'd played with you before.

If you want my reasons for being fine with the vote on you, it's because you don't look as town as most of the people in this thread, you seem very concerned with your appearance, you haven't voiced many independent or insightful thoughts, your voting has been too safe (for example, sheeping MoI's vote on us in the same post that you choose MoI--the leading Choose wagon at the time--felt very dissonant), and your argument against Feysal sheepy. (Upon an ISO, your one big catch-up post that made BBmolla trust you was decent in isolation, but the kind of content that's easy to fake, so I'm not letting you off the hook yet.)

Out of curiosity, how could BBmolla's vote be an OMGUS when it came before you voted/attacked him?

[Mastermind of Sin]

I find it curious that you have null reads on three of the weakest players in the game.


How sad that this thread would ignore redFF's scumminess. Minimum is a bad lynch and, moreover, we wouldn't want to ruin CES's record of not getting lynched, now would we?

UNCHOOSE: Feysal
CHOOSE: Minimum

This is a really bad post in pretty much every respect.

Didn't see this before, but I pretty much agree with cow.

Vote: Tierce

Choose: Tierce

[BBmolla]

MoI do you think I'm scum

Stop dodging and answer the question - why is Sala scum in your own words?

Stop dodging and answer the question

[Mastermind of Sin]

molla stop being retarded.

[BBmolla]

I can't, I'm town

[Minimum]

EBWOP: oh, I just noticed that CES explained it here. Considering you're voting us, Salamence, shouldn't you be paying more attention to our posts?

MoS, thoughts on the rest of Tierce's play, or are you only voting for her based on that one post? (For the record, there's one thing I hate about that Tierce post, but you, first.)

(Tammy, I'm pretty sure Shadow was arguing that I would eventually look town given time, not that he had a town read on me because of that quote.)

[Mastermind of Sin]

I couldn't tell you much about what else Tierce has done b/c she's playing under a stupid alt and I have trouble connecting that on the fly. Can't really remember what else she has said, nothing else stood out to me.

That one post, though, has several things VERY wrong with it.

[sword_of_omens]

ugh..ok..caught up to page 9

Unvote

Unchoose

couple of things...
i also see the best option for the "Choosing" to be used, is as a second lynch...it makes no sense to try and suicide a townie (even VT) in hopes they hit scum..the whole point IS to hit scum the first time. WE (as a collective town) are making the first choice TO KILL SCUM...it would be a little redundant for us to say "hey, we think Player A is scum, so let's get a townie to suicide vig him.." Shouldn't we just vote Player A in the first place? This way, town "directs the vig shot" in a sense (by voting for who they thought were scum)...and if we are wrong...well then our "Chosen" gets to try and succeed where we failed.

Choosing should be policy lynch central since I can easily imagine choosing scum and giving that scumbag a strongman vig being worse for the town than taking out 2 townies that would otherwise get mislynched or screw up in some other way.

I disagree…taking out scum should be our first priority..if we lynch scum, we’ve killed scum…

I beg to disagree? Giving a potential scum a strongman kill sounds like an extremely bad idea. You'd be basically giving them an unstoppable freebie for signing off plus their factional kill.

But in this scenario we have already KILLED scum, rather than killing town in hopes that they kill scum.…the trade off is worth it
also, seeing how it’s day 1, i would think scum is less likely to hit a PR this early…

You understand it right in the way that I would rather send a VT to do this then to let it end up in the hands of the scum.

This makes no sense…killing town on purpose in hopes of killing scum…

I disagree in that if we have to choose between giving a Policy lynch the power to kill anyone of their choice or a Scummy play said ability I’d 10 out of 10 times rather have the Policy lynch taking the shot. Ostensibly scummy players are more likely to be scum and scum has a 0% (barring cross-kills if this is Multiball) of killing a partner since they aren’t living to reap any Town cred from the shot (aka ***spreads arms wide***).

Of course Scum will not kill scum…but why wouldn’t you want to try and kill scum the first time? I don’t get it. If we hit scum the first time, we win..we’ve already killed one..we don’t have to hope on the suicide vig, because we have already killed scum.


Anyway..this has taken much longer than I anticipated..i came in late to work tonight and now I have to drive home, sleep for a lousy 3 ½ hours and then come back…

standing out so far:
I am not liking Minimum’s or Starbucks posts…

I do like Dedd for town..

And I didn’t read RedFF as scummy like a few others have…

I should be fully caught up by tomorrow sometime, so expect more in depth reads, along with my vote and choice then…

[Pandora]

Compromising for m'lady.

UNVOTE:

UNCHOOSE:
CHOOSE: Feysal

--

@Regfan:

You think it's an assumption you can see Feysal making. Tierce doesn't. Can you explain this dissonance?

Tierce is right in that Feysal does often elaborate on some things in great great detail but I don't think a conversation about the likelihood of multi-scum is needing of walls of text like he normally spends on the things he talks about, especially when there's the choosing mechanic to talk about instead.

I'm not convinced. It was an assumption nobody else had noted until that point; it's also a fairly setup-relevant assumption: it's not the kind of thing anyone would bring up without substantiating it, least of all a player who is supposedly fond of making lengthy posts. I don't get why you're not finding it scummy.

Were you getting a scumread off Stefan when you posted #113 and #114? Because you've written them in a negative/skeptical tone, and I don't understand how you have a strong townread on him in your next post. You said you found his "'getting into the game' to be super genuine", but all I can see in the three posts between your change in read is a

very

murky stream-of-consciousness, and some weak one-line reads.

I did explain my earlish scum read on Starbuck but it has to do with the fact that her focus and comments about people 'whimsically' throwing around choose votes doesn't show any real thought process behind it, thinking about it for a minute would make someone realize that the difference between that and RVS voting is nill and the lack of that consideration makes more sense as scum posting without thinking into things too deeply and her explanation behind it in Post 42 makes little to no sense.

Can't you say the same for Benmage?

Have you developed any stronger scumreads yet?

--

Pretty iffy about Salamence. His catch-up was pretty bad, but he followed up on questions from it, which isn't something I'd expect scum to do.

--

This post of Hyperion's drew my attention. It's really bad (theory disagreements, bad questions, apparently nothing of note within the last 100 posts). Everything about him reads newbscum. His 'catch-up' basically graphs scum demotivation over time. Rope needed.

--

It's just Quilford-Shadoweh. Canadians aren't very good at anonymity.

Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuude.

--

I like hasdgfas for town.

--

Now to see whether Shadoweh thinks I'm insane.

-- Quilford

[Plessiezarus]

SnowStorm's vote for Benmage would have seemed odder, to me, if he then claimed to have read some of the previous games.

Why?

I don't really think you're asking me this because you want to hear an answer, for some reason . But if you really do need it spelled out, then: SnowStorm comes from a site where policy lynches are frowned on (or at least nobody admits to pushing them). This would make his vote for Benmage somewhat understandable, given the post he responds to. If he'd claimed to have read previous games, however, he would presumably know not to be surprised by it (and that first post would be harder for him to justify).

CES? you're giving me a headache...don't give me a headache. I took your answer as the first person to post as Mina serious, but your answer that all of your responses were you as a joke.

The idea was it would be perceived as a package deal since the joke clearly relied on me immediately contradicting myself. Doesn't work as well as I imagined in hindsight.

I got it. It was

annoying and unhelpful

very droll.

@Dolorous Edd

: I don't understand where your votes are coming from.

[...]

I'd like to know your own thoughts on the people you underlined in 212 also. What category would you put them in?

Oh, yeah, this. Edd, why did you ask Benmage to explain some of his reads like this and then completely fail to follow up on his answer? Did you just pick some names to underline at random so you could be seen to be active and scumhunting and stuff?

Get Alek to answer that, if you can, he's a better liar than you.

(Oh, and good luck with your move to college .)

~ Pless

[Regfan]

First of if everyone could attempt to cut down on their spam posts it'll be greatly appreciated, we don't need this to turn into a repeat of Mafia Behind the Maidens D1 where it lasts 80+ pages and leads towards a lot of players being dissuaded to keeping up with the thread.

I have a growing pool of strong town reads right now, very confident that on top of Pandora, Tyene and Ed that Benmage, Molla, Cow, Staeg, Lyanna and MoI are town. In fact would nearly bet the game on them all being town. BBMollas reaction test on SS and move towards Sala then stating that Sala has a town-post comes across as legitimate and matches his town meta quite well, plus his whole "vote; shadow it's like what I'm like as scum" post is a town-tell. Benmages posting is very very genuine, his list and reads and 'slow this down' attitude are big town-tells and I'm getting a similarish vibe from him here than I did in White Flag where he was town. Staegs reads are all fairly good and his frustration with Shadow1 and people reading Starbuck as town are big town-tells, as is his 'I'll elaborate on Molla town later down the line", as scum he'd have fabricated reasoning there.

I've also got a weak town read on Jal; his inability to pin-point his reasoning behind his Tyene read comes across as genuine town. Also feeling even better about Plum and like SoO's phrasing of the 'WE KILL SCUM' in Post 342. Also thought about Starbuck a bit today and I'm inclined to agree with Nacho, the whole "Give it to a VT so they can shoot" and 'self-vote' given her stance/thoughts on what the choose was is a fairly big town-tell and while I hate to admit it, she's very probably town.

Still don't have many scum reads. Snows still my strongest scum-read and no, he's not 'noob' or 'inexperienced' he has a lot of experience over at westeroes where I'd argue players are better at keeping up with spam-post-days due to the 32 hour deadlines and no, entire reason behind why I think he's scum isn't all meta based. His entrance into the thread is still very awkward, even though he said 'hi' in the main thread his post ressembels him just finding a trivial angle to discuss to seem contributory. I also don't find his flavour analysis to be a town-tell, think it's fairly null. Lyanna did point out the big thing though, he's claiming that Benmage is one of his strongest town-reads however still has his vote on him; it's possible he's forgotten his votes on him but that would mean him having no scum read to have wanted to move towards all game. Also not a fan of Hyperions posts so far, the last game of his I saw him play he obvtowned it up and had a lot of good analysis, thoughts and reads, this game his posts seem to be lacking that. Not sure if it has to do with the game-size or alignment though.

Oh and uh, where's Zoraster. I've seen him posting elsewhere on the site from memory but nothing here.

Salam

, your 'catch up' post was completely useless to me. I much rather hear your reads and thoughts right now.

Meh. Suffice it to say I think having an early death being meaningful is a better move than it not. But as I asked Minimum - what possible scum motivation do you see in self-Chosing. Because you said it gave me a slight scum read and the above is just ‘mechanics’ disagreement.

I don't see any motivation for scum

wanting

to be chosen N1 but was unsure of your reasoning of it initially, couldn't pin any town motivation behind it really at the time but your explanation is very believable and I'm liking majority of your other play; your push on Minimum is super natural.

Regfan, how do you possibly see Edd as town here?

I've explained the town-read on Edd already but lets put it this way; I have meta on the posting head, Tammy also has a lot of meta on that posting head, everything they've done ressembles their town play quite strongly and I really suggest you give that a lot of weight. Also their early comments about the usage of the choose is very town and the pointing out of the Feysal 'slip' is a big town-tell as is the fact that their posts and scumhunting show a lot of consideration.

I'm not convinced. It was an assumption nobody else had noted until that point; it's also a fairly setup-relevant assumption: it's not the kind of thing anyone would bring up without substantiating it, least of all a player who is supposedly fond of making lengthy posts. I don't get why you're not finding it scummy.

Were you getting a scumread off Stefan when you posted #113 and #114? Because you've written them in a negative/skeptical tone, and I don't understand how you have a strong townread on him in your next post. You said you found his "'getting into the game' to be super genuine", but all I can see in the three posts between your change in read is a

very

murky stream-of-consciousness, and some weak one-line reads.

I really think the Feysal multi-scum thing is a dead end dude; as scum he'd be careful to reveal something like that and as town I can see him jumping to the assumption of multi-killers or scum, sure no one noted it clearly before that but it was something I was thinking for sure and I think it's also something I'd have touched on very minimally if I brought it up. Again think the choose means his theory-focus is there instead of anywhere else. I didn't have a scum-read on Stefan in #113/114, actually had a gutish town-read on him but I try and avoid gut whenever possible, was hoping his reaction and response to my calling his reads trash would help me get a better feel on him and it did, his whole 'not back into everything full' 'not 100%' is genuine and town. Also the difference between Starbuck and Benmage is that Starbuck spent much more time focusing around it and I've seen him derp in that sort of manner as town more times than I can count. And (As you can see above) I still think scum is likely inside of SnowStorm, Minimum but also think Hyperion is very possible scum.

Updated:

Town (S->W):

Pandora, Tyene, Benmage, Edd, MoI, Staeg, Cow, Molla, Lyanna, Plum, Starbuck, Stefan, Pappums, Pless, Jal, Feysal, SoO

Null:

Bvoigt, MoS, Mocking, RedFF, Shadow1, Petyr

Scum (S->W):

Snow, Minimum, Hyperion, Salam

[Pandora]

|

-- Quilford

[Pandora]

*disables smilies*

[Regfan]

Quilford, what do you think of my Snow read?

[Pandora]

Of course I think you're crazy, but you're the kind of crazy that's in my head.
Speaking of in my head, we are having a conversation that goes something like this:
Shadoweh: oh my god I hate you Edd's posts are so scummy
Quilford: whyyy nooo they're not
Shadoweh: Do you not realize that he was so busy 'arguing with us' that he hadn't even voted until #215? We didn't even answer his questions, he just went ignoring us once you declared him town. And then he votes Starbuck and yells angrilly even more at anyone else attacking him. Like Hyperion, he's like HOW DARE YOU CHOOSE ME
Quilford: i feel like he's townieraging effectively

ASFDGHAFG. Whatever at least we agree on something.

##Vote: Hyperion

Hated entrance post. Ignoring first 'quotes go here' post, his quote wall is full of Information We Already Know. Which is like IIoA's cousin. The thing about Starbuck is obvious but doesn't seem to impact his scum choices, The choose argument has had both sides explained in depth, if he thinks Starbuck is town why is he bothering to question her again later, and his vote is because BBmolla faked seeing a scumslip. None of the questions asked seem like they'll lead anywhere. It's garbage that doesn't sound like anything

And as much as Edd makes me rattle.. whatever that little furry dood is carrying, choosing him for such a small point and because MoI sed so instead of something bad he's actually done by now is lazy. I wonder if Choose is like an FoS today?

Other suspects include Salamance and Jar, who I will read in more detail with Quilly Willy and decide if we hate enough to leave Feysal alone (I still pretty much think Feysal is a dead end myself)

Regfan: Quilford sez he thinks the only point with merit is the supposedly awkward entrance to the thread, he thinks it's likely he's just forgotten to vote not-benmage but your point about him 'having no scum read to have wanted to move towards all game' is moot because he admitted as much at the end of his latest post. I kind of agree with him since it doesn't make sense for scum to not want a scum read to move towards, they're kind of trying to kill us after all.
How does SS know about Mina and CES, he's been around three days but he's implied he played with Mina before? ("The idea I have of Mina's town play is that I usually agree with her")

Also Not-Tierce and Not-Tammy should keep their flirting between content posts.

You're making me jealous, we're an alt too, I'm sure there were creepy furry creatures somewhere in the book right? :<