A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!


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Post Post #400 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:25 am

Post by Eddard Stark »

The Bite is an expanse of water, larger than a bay, but smaller than a sea, that lies between the North and the Vale. It opens onto the narrow sea.


Day 1, Votecount 14

MagnaofIllusion (1) - Shadow1psc
Starbuck (2) - Feysal, redFF
SnowStorm (3) - Plessiezarus, Regfan, Tyene Sand
Minimum (6) - MagnaofIllusion, Salamence20, Hasdgfas, Lyanna Stark, StefanB, Benmage

Benmage (1) - SnowStorm
Salamence20 (3) - pappums rat, Staeg, Minimum
Feysal (1) - Starbuck
BBmolla (1) - Hyperion
Dolorous Edd (1) - Jal
Tyene Sand (1) Mastermind of Sin
Hyperion (2) - Pandora, BBmolla
Pandora (1) - Dolorous Edd

Not Voting (5):
Mockingjaye, Petyr Baelish, Bvoigt, Plum's Yo Mamma, sword_of_omens

With 28 alive it takes 15 to lynch.

  • Deadline
    : 3rd September at 11:59pm Ireland time. (GMT+1)
  • Countdown to deadline
    : (expired on 2012-09-03 18:59:59)
  • redFF is V/la until Friday.




CHOOSE LOVE!)

MagnaofIllusion (1) - MagnaofIllusion
Tyene Sand (2) - Feysal, Mastermind of Sin
Dolorous Edd (2) - hasdgfas, Hyperion
Feysal (4) - Dolorous Edd, Salamence20, StefanB, Pandora

Hasdgfas (1) - Shadow1psc
Minimum (3) - Regfan, Tyene Sand, Plum's Yo Mamma
Starbuck (2) - Starbuck, Staeg
redFF (2) - Benmage, Minimum
Shadow1psc (1) - BBmolla

Not Choosing (10):
Lyanna Stark, Mockingjaye, Petyr Baelish, redFF, pappums rat, Bvoigt, Plessiezarus, SnowStorm, Jal, Sword_of_omens

With 28 alive it takes 15 to 'Choose'.


#395 doesn't count - Stefan's choose wasn't bolded. Not trying to be a dick, but etc.

(Also the red and green votecounts look cool together, and being cool is important. That is all!)
War has arrived!

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Post Post #401 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:28 am

Post by Shadow1psc »

In post 398, StefanB wrote:That not but the defence of "I am so scummy, I can't be scum" is still worst.
So beeing unhelpful und checky is now a towntell?
Shadow try another explanation?

How about the explanation of, the game isn't even 3 (real) days old and people are trying to actually use limited amount of interaction in a 28 player game to pinpoint behavior as either 'scummy' or 'town', as if the game has been going on for weeks, or some mystical mindset is able to actually tell you I am scum, much in the way I've been called out for calling Mina town (which I never actually said she was, just that she shouldn't be lynched because Mina is easy to read in later days).

I haven't even properly read the whole thread, I just find it amusing that we have MoI and others trying to throw their weight around so early when no one knows jack shit for any reason on day one. Deal with it.
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Post Post #402 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:32 am

Post by Shadow1psc »

Oh, and don't confuse my attitude or posting style as a 'lack of trying' or even the more laugh worthy notion of 'lack of contributing', because there's nothing to contribute except relational tells for a later analysis if needed, and simply by actively posting and commenting, I'm still doing that. You can call my posting fluffy and I'll concede it, but I don't have much to say because I don't pretend to be able to nail scum, or even town at all day one, much less 2 days into play where the majority of people playing just look like town members hemming and hawing, trying to puff up their chests and look important. Do I have opinions? Yes. Can they be gathered from what I've posted? Most certainly. I have a town read on BBMolla, and I don't think Minamum should be lynched. I've contributed to the discussion on the matter of how to use our Choose ability, and I've seen no reason to comment on much else.

Mountains out of molehills people, this is what I'm talking about when I say people are trying to do too much after too little has happened, let alone the fact we're in a 28 player game.
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Post Post #403 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:34 am

Post by StefanB »

Pandora:
Well I asked them a question, directed to Mina.
They refuse to answer that question. ("I will only end in tears")
So my answer was okay then I just think you are scum.
And Mina said, that she is allways becoming obvioustown and even called herself obvioustown.
If that is true, well we will see.

Pandora: I wanted to know from them why they choose MoI in the beginning and said later that we should use the choose as a policitylynch.
So why do they think as town, that it is a good idea to PL MoI.
I see reason for scum to do it.

For shadow: Well I didn't bother so much on a case, read the Iso.

Mod: Okay, sorry.
Unchoose

Chose: Shadow

better?


Preview: I am trying to deal with you, Shadow. But I am afraid that isn't what you wanted.
So your defence is you are usless because it is so early in the game, so you have to be usless? When do you start to play?
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Post Post #404 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:39 am

Post by Minimum »

In post 378, Regfan wrote:CES, I don't find anything in your posts even slightly town, convince me I'm wrong?

I'm being far too lazy to be scum.

In post 393, Salamence20 wrote:And again, the point is, that CES and I haven't even played a full game together, just Lylo, so I don't think that is enough for CES to get suspicious.

Am I wrong?

Yes. Why is it impossible for me to quickly grasp some salient details of your playstyle (there are quite a few things I probably can't realistically know, but that's not the same)?

In post 394, hasdgfas wrote:The meta argument does absolutely nothing for me without you elaborating. I could say "My meta on people posting the way Edd does makes me think he's scum" and it means absolutely nothing. I can't give weight to you saying that his meta resembles his town play because of that.

You should learn to sheep. It's a very useful skill.

Stefan, you're being silly if you think I would make something like that up. And it should be fairly obvious that for me to explain why I think someone's a good policy lynch, I'm going to have to be somewhat negative? It's not going to consist of constructive criticism of MoI's playstyle.
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Post Post #405 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:44 am

Post by Shadow1psc »

In post 403, StefanB wrote:Preview: I am trying to deal with you, Shadow. But I am afraid that isn't what you wanted.
So your defence is you are usless because it is so early in the game, so you have to be usless? When do you start to play?


I'm saying I've started playing, what I'm arguing is peoples' contrived notion of 'contributing'. I'm not going to give person by person block wall list reads when I don't have them. I have gathered as many opinions as I probably should have in a game that has been going on for less than 72 hours. I'm not going to make a huge deal out of every minor interaction because we have too many big names leading people around. What I can start doing after a number of flips and untold night actions is start reviewing the interactions people have with each other. We come in to day 2 with (I'm assuming here, only 2 scum teams and no independent faction) no less than 5 flipped people.
That's
where you can start doing real work.

How many times have you (or anyone else) sat around day 1, been called scummy for stupid posts that literally mean nothing to the game in the long run, and just laugh because you have a town PM? Don't pretend your sordid opinions mean anything in relation to factual events happening right now, if you want to policy lynch me because I'm keeping it light for now, go ahead and keep pushing it, I really don't care :D
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Post Post #406 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:02 am

Post by pappums rat »

@ everyone: I have asked The Ned to replace me from this game. I cant keep up with this game when it is adding an extra 7 or 8 pages each time I come on, and I cant keep up with the number of players and hydras either. Since I dont see my schedule clearing up more time for me to do this game justice, I think it is in everyones best interests if I replace out. Im sorry everyone for having to do this.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post Post #407 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:05 am

Post by BBmolla »

In post 397, Shadow1psc wrote:Because scum deliberately act scummy

As scum who does this, yes.

Seriously ask people who played face to face with me.
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Post Post #408 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:14 am

Post by hasdgfas »

In post 404, Minimum wrote:
In post 394, hasdgfas wrote:The meta argument does absolutely nothing for me without you elaborating. I could say "My meta on people posting the way Edd does makes me think he's scum" and it means absolutely nothing. I can't give weight to you saying that his meta resembles his town play because of that.

You should learn to sheep. It's a very useful skill.

I only sheep things I understand and agree with, which means not meta arguments.
jdodge1019: hasjghsalghsakljghs is from vermont
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Post Post #409 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:15 am

Post by Staeg »

I'm mildly... not suspicious, I guess, but... troubled? by the fact that snowstorm doesn't want to read the previous games to "keep an objective PoV," when he has already played with about 1/3 of the playerlist on the Westeros forums.

Re: Regfan's 345 - again, for the millionth time I ask: how is posting 10 posts of 50 words worse than 2 of 250?

Alek's entrance to the thread reeks of bad (no, tyene, it's not a towntell because someone else already got the brownie points for it), and shadow's reaction to said bad was, um, actually scummy

Okay, for the last time (and sorry if someone has actually answered, but I don't think they have): why would we not use the Choose as a second AND third lynch? I know, the second one can hit scum, I know, the assassin can be dumb and do their own thing even if town, but why does it hurt to try?



So, to sum it up, the following players should be dead come massclaim day (preferably within the next 4 days):
Salamence
Dolorous Edd
Hyperion
Shadow

I would still like starbuck to die (who STILL hasn't nameclaimed), but I'm more or less alone there.

unvote
Vote: Hyperion
sa vrede?
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Post Post #410 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:17 am

Post by Tyene Sand »

Good grief, how many more posts...
Regfan can I have another synopsis pls.
Deeper catch-up tomorrow. But seriously, this is an inane number of walls. Can you make your points in fewer words?

MoI--My point was that it's pretty obvious that not everyone has Minimum has a top suspect and you're trying to strongarm a lynch at this stage. Sheer argument from repetition won't convince people that they are scum, so the "You people choosing him should be voting him" attitude is needless posturing.

Very much disagree with Shadow1psc that "too little has happened" on 17 pages that are very non-spammy, and not entirely sure why he's pushing that notion.

I see no reason for Starbuck to nameclaim. Stop being silly, Stag.
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Post Post #411 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:25 am

Post by Shadow1psc »

In post 410, Tyene Sand wrote:Very much disagree with Shadow1psc that "too little has happened" on 17 pages that are very non-spammy, and not entirely sure why he's pushing that notion.


I'm not arguing that little has happened, but I am saying it's so early in both the day and the game that people are making inane giant posts and getting ruffled up over things that, I'm willing to bet, come sun up day 2, no one will have been right about a single person. It's my experience in these large theme games that that is consistently the case, and no one is particularly scummy for pushing these mislynches that happened over inane details and supposed 'slips', and everyone just moves on, as will happen here. Call me jaded maybe, but why am I going to get flustered over everything now? Today's biggest 'cases' (and I say this with disdain because no one has a case on anyone, let's just set that straight now) I think are all simply town. Feysal is probably not scum. Mina is probably not scum, but if she is we'll certainly know about it sooner rather than later. Salamence we will
for sure
know about given a few more days (real days, not game days).

Obviously we still have to choose/lynch someone, though I'm willing to bet the target will change plenty of times before day is over, and I'm not hip to any of the current targets.
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Post Post #412 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:31 am

Post by Pandora »

It's all well and good to say that but if some of us didn't take it seriously the game would never progress to the point where people can get reads and have 'for serious' cases. (as far as I'm concerned it's been long enough, a few days and 17 pages should be more then enough to find scum)
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Post Post #413 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:36 am

Post by Shadow1psc »

In post 412, Pandora wrote:It's all well and good to say that but if some of us didn't take it seriously the game would never progress to the point where people can get reads and have 'for serious' cases. (as far as I'm concerned it's been long enough, a few days and 17 pages should be more then enough to find scum)


If it were that easy, why, town would never lose. I'm trying to get the simple notion across that too many people are preaching their scum hunting as the word of god and that nothing of real consequence has happened
yet
that doesn't come in the form of relational tells as data the be analyzed on a later game day. That's what day one is, 90% of the time. I'm not arguing that people shouldn't talk, and if I thought that I simply wouldn't post or talk about things ever day one, and I do believe solid town reads can be gained in situations like this, but quite often the people 'acting scummy' day one are simply pushed and the real scum lay back and let it happen, and that's where you start finding your real data, inside the people who aren't making
any
noise. Yes, this sounds very much like 'just lynch lurkers day 1', though I think my point is a little more elaborate, maybe something closer to 'lynch the people who don't stick out'.

Crummy argument? Maybe, but I then invite you to point me to a game where you successfully nailed scum day 1 and got them lynched day 1 using solid evidence.
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Post Post #414 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:43 am

Post by Tyene Sand »

In post 411, Shadow1psc wrote:Call me jaded maybe
Faraday this is your fault.


@Shadow1psc:

Why are you arguing for the defusing of discussion and wagons in general?

Gun to the head, snap decision: who would you vig if you were chosen?

I can point you to Weather Mafia II where I got BBmolla-scum lynched D1 with decent pieces of evidence (why do you care if the evidence is 'right' when lynching scum, anyway? People make too much noise out of cases, and there's little point in giving your scumread ammunition against you). It happens, and it's not that rare.

There are several players who are focusing quite a bit on townreads over scumreads. See Regfan. See myself. You're making general arguments instead of pointing concrete fingers and it's quite slippery. Who is doing this messy D1 thing that you so abhor?
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Post Post #415 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:45 am

Post by BBmolla »

Tierce is town
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Post Post #416 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:45 am

Post by BBmolla »

Tierce, your scumreads?
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Post Post #417 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:54 am

Post by Tyene Sand »

You say that as if I'm ever not-Town, Griff. You should know better.

I don't have much in the way of scumreads. SnowStorm, redFF, I-can-go-with-Minimum. SnowStorm is easily the strongest of those. I also need to check Hyperion, but that won't happen tonight.

You should stop assuming stupid = scum, btw. The way your Salamence read progressed was a clear sign of that. (And yet, it was a clear BBtown, so
that
was nice.)
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Post Post #418 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:55 am

Post by BBmolla »

...Yeah I do that. I'd probably call myself scum if I weren't me a lot of the time.
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Post Post #419 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:56 am

Post by Shadow1psc »

In post 414, Tyene Sand wrote:
In post 411, Shadow1psc wrote:Call me jaded maybe
Faraday this is your fault.


@Shadow1psc:

Why are you arguing for the defusing of discussion and wagons in general?

Gun to the head, snap decision: who would you vig if you were chosen?

I can point you to Weather Mafia II where I got BBmolla-scum lynched D1 with decent pieces of evidence (why do you care if the evidence is 'right' when lynching scum, anyway? People make too much noise out of cases, and there's little point in giving your scumread ammunition against you). It happens, and it's not that rare.

There are several players who are focusing quite a bit on townreads over scumreads. See Regfan. See myself. You're making general arguments instead of pointing concrete fingers and it's quite slippery. Who is doing this messy D1 thing that you so abhor?


I'm having a general discussion, but I've pointed out that in between all this mess I can at least see one town read and two people who I don't want to see lynched because they're easier reads (and as of now don't look scum to me). Snap decision, I vig someone like MoI, or hascow. Not for any reason other than they've burned me as scum before and I know they're crafty as hell. I have no solid scum reads on anyone, and my posts are simply explaining why, and why I'm posting the way I am. Nothing more, nothing less.

Plus side? It's generating a discussion that I can actually be interested in. All the crap surrounding Feysal? Arbitrary BS (that's my stance on it, if no one got that from all my recent posting). People pushing Mina? Started as BS, and Mina's post sealed my read on the situation. Do I think the people making the fuss out of those situations are scum? Not really, town tend to make the most noise day one. I am just of the belief as a player that scum would just as well sit back and do nothing if everything is going in their favor.

Make no mistake, I'm not arguing for the diffusion of discussion, in fact, I'm participating in the opposite if you haven't noticed. I like to make noise as much as the next person, I just don't bother to do it when people like MoI are spearheading the discussion because I know as a player he has a one track mind when gets an idea. I get more out of being short and quippy (not a word) and gauging responses, because I get attacked for that
every
game, scum or not (see Storm of Swords if you weren't in it, it might as well have been my first real game here). This is no real change of how I play in any game as any side, and I continue to make the argument that a lack of scumhunting 24 hours into the game is not a legitimate thing one can argue about.

I'll concede that getting scum lynched day one happens, but you just proved my point; People make too much noise over cases, or 'this person is scummy because town wouldn't do that' type of BS. I'd rather look at relational tells, explanations, arguments and logic under pressure, but I'm simply bothered by the rabble of day one, and people wanted to know why, so I've done my best to explain it here.
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Post Post #420 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:57 am

Post by Shadow1psc »

In post 417, Tyene Sand wrote:You should stop assuming stupid = scum, btw. The way your Salamence read progressed was a clear sign of that. (And yet, it was a clear BBtown, so that was nice.)


I will be delighted to comment on this as well at a later date.
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Post Post #421 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:03 am

Post by Tyene Sand »

...If the discussion that is being had has given you reads, then stop complaining about it. Good grief. It takes 15 to lynch/choose, the biggest Lynch wagon is on L-9 and the biggest Choose wagon is on L-11.

You seem to want to stifle discussion and fan it alive at the same time while talking what is essentially your view on how the game should be played. Other people have different ideas and different playstyles; you've given your warning, no one is in any risk of being lynched any time soon (pity, that would make things move a bit), drop it and move on. Get to concrete aspects.
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Post Post #422 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:08 am

Post by Shadow1psc »

I make no claims to change it or force everyone to change their play style, I'm merely explaining my own for the people calling me scum, and at the same time creating a discussion they can either accept me for, ignore, or outright call 'wrong', and any other number of situations where I can derive motive, or what you called 'concrete aspects'. People felt like I wasn't saying or contributing enough, so that's where this started.
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Post Post #423 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:16 am

Post by Lyanna Stark »

In post 361, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Lyanna wrote: Good! ^^^ And for anyone wondering a continued reason for why I'm getting a town read on Edd. Good luck moving into college Arthur!!!


Why don’t you explain how what you quoted in should explain your Town-read on Dol Edd because I don’t see much in the way of alignment relevant information in the quoted post.


Nothing I can really vocalize. I know it seems a little silly, but I would expect a different type of response from him if he were scum. That being said, his other head posted.

In post 386, Tyene Sand wrote:
In post 385, Plessiezarus wrote:
In post 374, Tyene Sand wrote:Aaand the major hydra dissonance just showed that Edd is (are?) town (again).

Can't say I agree with this. The hydra dissonance displayed by Pandora earlier seemed very natural; that's a town-tell, sure. But the Alek/Arthur dissonance? Meh.
Individual scumhunting from Arthur/Alek. They're likely wrong in their top scumspects, but the way their reads differ don't really speak of someone who's bothering to check with their buddy to make sure they don't mess up their reads or accidentally write themselves into a corner. I'd like them to patch it up, as with Pandora, but initially? Alek came in and threw down reads with major disregard for what Arthur had already said. Yes, this is a towntell from them.


That might be a town tell for a lot of people, and the hydra might be town. However, this is not a town tell for those two particular people. Staeg mentioned how this was already called a town tell for Pandora, so it doesn't really apply the second time. And, well, this is Alek and Arthur, so it's not exactly a towntell
from them


In post 356, StefanB wrote:
Tammy, Tierce: Roleplaying is okay, your fighting against each other, your jabs and all, do they have a purpose, or are they just a nice reminder that you dislike each other? If they are pointless can they stopp, they become a distrection I think.


Yes, it serves a purpose. We're having a bit of fun. We tend to but heads but I don't dislike Tierce and that's not what this is about. She's a Sand Snake from Dorne and while her house may have never bowed to the throne, it's a vastly inferior place than the north. :P

In post 360, SnowStorm wrote:
In post 333, Lyanna Stark wrote:
SnowStorm it must suck to come to MS and have your first role pm be scum. So, Benmage looks town to you does he? *glances up at vote count* Can you explain why you're still voting him then?

Is everyone pretty much null to you SnowStorm? Not one person you want to vote for and press
besides the one you just called town
? None?


Yup, I think he's town. Yup, my vote stayed on him. Obviously, when I called him town, that vote lost it's power, so it was basically the same as unvoting. But, unvoting is boring, since it doesn't allow for this kind of situation...

I'm kind of surprised that you, of all people, picked on this. You've seen me do it before, more than once, this is something I usually do when I have no suspects. Also, you usually pay attention to this kind of stuff and I never expected this reaction from you.



Hmm...this is the only post you have made today and I don't like your response. I didn't pick up on this only for you keeping your vote on Ben. I've done a similar thing a ton of times. I've voted someone and decided they're town but not unvoted them. I don't think it's inherently scummy, but when I've done it I've usually made an announcement that that is what I have done and that I will move it when I decide who it's going to go onto if I for whatever reason don't unvote (but that's usually when we're nearing deadline and I'm actively searching for someone to vote instead.)

And, this is the problem I'm having is that you're not actively looking for suspects; you're not actively engaging with anyone in the game really. You picked up on the Ben issue and I have no problem with that, but that is pretty much all you have done other than discuss theory. And then you gave a few townish reads and said that there was pretty no scum reads, basically you nulled everyone. The manner in which you gave your reads was rather stilted as well. All of this made me suspicious. If it were just the vote, and you were being active in the game, I probably wouldn't have even noticed.

I don't know why you wouldn't expect the reaction you got from me. You've seen me point out things that I don't like and question people about things numerous times before.

-------

Dolorous Edd
Why do you have a weak scum read on Plessiezarus? Also, why is SnowStorm null. (obv I'm asking the Arthur head on that.)

Sorry :oops:

Promise me Ned? Promise you what? That'd I'd delete your posts on the wrong account? Sure thing, sister!
Last edited by Eddard Stark on Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #424 (ISO) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:17 am

Post by Eddard Stark »

Amrun replaces pappums rat!
War has arrived!

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