A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Shinori]

For what it matters without going into detail.

Scum reads on minimum, Bvo, shadow, snowstorm
Town reads on, Feysal, Lyanna, Starbuck, Regfan, MoI, Benmage, Hasdgfas, Staeg, Teirce, plumsyomamma.
Null on everyone else for the most part, I might be leaning one way or the other on their alignment but for the most part null.

Also I asked the mod and he has given me permission to do this so I'm starting it here, me and a friend are going to start hydraing from this account. He doesn't play here so you wouldn't know him, but he is "Elie" and I am "Shino/ri".

[Shinori]

Stateing*

[Shinori]

Stating.
What the fuck ever.

[Salamence20]

Nope....

Are you scum?

[greenknight]

Why would MoI's selfchoose have made us explain why we were choosing MoI?

Why would you NOT be transparent about why you were choosing MoI?

And there is the oddness MoI pointed out in his post later that if you do think MoI is a good Choice in order to get a town vig as opposed to scum (34), then why question his selfvote.

It was a bogus point then and it still is now. Just look at MoI's answer to our question - how is that related to our Choice?

MoI's answer is irrelevant. The point is, why would you ask the question in the first place when you apparently think he's a good Choice and he agrees with you?


Shinori: Why are you still choosing feysal if you think he's town now?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Greenknight. You continue to be incredibly disingenuous and obvious scum. Just so you know.

[greenknight]

Greenknight. You continue to be incredibly disingenuous and obvious scum. Just so you know.

Your case is idiotic. Just so you know.

[Shinori]

I have a town read on him, whoever we pick dies yes but the way I see it, giving scum a second shot won't help us. I'd rather send a townie and ask them to shoot who we think is scum. We are gonna lose a townie either way, however picking the townie ourselves is still better than letting scum do it.

[Minimum]

Why would MoI's selfchoose have made us explain why we were choosing MoI?

Why would you NOT be transparent about why you were choosing MoI?

That is not an answer to the question. You're the one trying to connect unrelated sarcastic quips to our MoIchoose.

Transparency is not something I'm particularly concerned about anyway, especially when being perfectly transparent is undesirable anyway.

MoI's answer is irrelevant. The point is, why would you ask the question in the first place when you apparently think he's a good Choice and he agrees with you?

Because reasons matter in mafia?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Something about following up the thought that "Transparency is overrated" with "Reasons matter" is very, very funny. Reasons matter, unless people are asking Minimum for them ...

[Plessiezarus]

Scum reads on minimum, Bvo, shadow, snowstorm

Hmm. Shinori, when did you start suspecting SnowStorm, exactly?

Went back to look at you in iso. Here's the only post so far in which you've talked about who you suspect.

So after ISO'ing minimum, I'll state that I think he's most likely scum or lazy ass town. His first part of the game doesn't help at all. Starbucks vote wasn't that good, neither was the snowstorm vote that was then swapped in his next post to salamence who he appears to have been on all game. After he voted on salamence his posts seem small and not too helpful and he doesn't do much till about post #323 where mina specifically posts and then again at #446 and #455 where I guess he started to feel pressured by the votes to do something. I don't like the majority of his responses to players though.

Just from the timing of his votes and for how long he's been on salamence if he were to flip scum sal would most likely be town and BVO should be looked at. [...]

Shadows seems decently scummy, he had a fair amount of posts that didn't really defend him all that well and some posts where he would just quote one of his previous posts as his answer. He also stated that he would most likely shoot MoI or hascow for basically revenge reasons which seems stupid and not that helpful. [...]

From this, I can see where your scum-reads on Minimum and Shadow come from. And sort of where your scum-read on BVoigt comes from, I guess. But you say nothing about suspecting SnowStorm, nor have you mentioned him in any other post. In fact, you implicitly defend SnowStorm above (because you say Minimum's vote for him "wasn't that good").

I'd ask "what has SnowStorm done since Post 636 that makes him look scummy?" but ... well, SnowStorm doesn't have

any posts

between Post 636 and Post 750. What are we missing here? Did you go back to reread SnowStorm at some point? What made you do that?

~ Pless

[Shinori]

If you would read the rest of my iso I also stated that I didn't read anyone except for Shadows ISO and minimum's iso at that time, I just caught a few glances at Snowstorms post and hadn't read everything in context. It's really easy to misjudge a situation when you don't know everything.

[Eddard Stark]

Lyanna Stark was the younger sister of Lord Eddard Stark and was betrothed to Ned's childhood friend Robert Baratheon. Her abduction by Rhaegar Targaryen was the event that ultimately triggered Robert's Rebellion and led to the downfall of the Targaryen Dynasty.

Day 1, Votecount 25

MagnaofIllusion (1) - Shadow1psc
Starbuck (1) - DCXLVI
SnowStorm (5) - Plessiezarus, Regfan, Tyene Sand, Feysal, Jal

Minimum (6) - MagnaofIllusion, Salamence20, Hasdgfas, Lyanna Stark, greenknight, Shinori

Salamence20 (3) - Amrun, Minimum, bvoigt
Feysal (1) - Starbuck
Shinori (5) - Pandora, BBmolla, Staeg, Dolorous Edd, Mastermind of Sin
Shadow1psc (1) - StefanB
bvoigt (1) - Plum's Yo Mamma

Not Voting (4):

Mockingjaye, kortul, SnowStorm, Benmage

With 28 alive it takes 15 to lynch.

• Deadline
  : 3rd September at 11:59pm Ireland time. (GMT+1)
  
• Countdown to deadline
  : (expired on 2012-09-03 18:59:59)
  
• MOI is V/la.

CHOOSE to be hungry

Tyene Sand (1) - Feysal
Dolorous Edd (2) - hasdgfas, Jal

Feysal (5) - Dolorous Edd, Salamence20, Bvoigt, greenknight, Shinori

Hasdgfas (1) - Shadow1psc
Minimum (2) - Regfan, StefanB
Starbuck (2) - Starbuck, Staeg
DCLXVI (1) - Pandora
Shadow1psc (4) - BBmolla, MagnaofIllusion, Mastermind of Sin, Lyanna Stark
Mastermind of Sin (1) - Tyene Sand
greenknight (2) - Plum's Yo Mamma, Minimum

Not Choosing (7):

Mockingjaye, kortul, DCXLVI, Amrun, Plessiezarus, SnowStorm, Benmage

With 28 alive it takes 15 to 'Choose'. Once a choose has 15 votes it will be locked in but not end day.

Any mistakes, please point them out.

[Lyanna Stark]

Lyanna Stark was the younger sister of Lord Eddard Stark and was betrothed to Ned's childhood friend Robert Baratheon. Her abduction by Rhaegar Targaryen was the event that ultimately triggered Robert's Rebellion and led to the downfall of the Targaryen Dynasty.

I'm like the Helen of Troy of Westeros.

[Eddard Stark]

Prodding SnowStorm

[Salamence20]

Lyanna Stark was the younger sister of Lord Eddard Stark and was betrothed to Ned's childhood friend Robert Baratheon. Her abduction by Rhaegar Targaryen was the event that ultimately triggered Robert's Rebellion and led to the downfall of the Targaryen Dynasty.

I'm like the Helen of Troy of Westeros.

That's pretty interesting. :p

[Minimum]

Something about following up the thought that "Transparency is overrated" with "Reasons matter" is very, very funny. Reasons matter, unless people are asking Minimum for them ...

I generally answer questions put to me.

I'm like the Helen of Troy of Westeros.

Your face is a drydock.

[Minimum]

If you would read the rest of my iso I also stated that I didn't read anyone except for Shadows ISO and minimum's iso at that time, I just caught a few glances at Snowstorms post and hadn't read everything in context. It's really easy to misjudge a situation when you don't know everything.

So why are you suspicious of snowstorm exactly?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Unvote, Vote: Sala

[Plessiezarus]

Greenknight. You continue to be incredibly disingenuous and obvious scum. Just so you know.

Your case is idiotic. Just so you know.

What do you think of Plum's case on BVoigt?

~ Pless

[Tyene Sand]

StefanB--As much as he deserves it on general principle, I have no interest in policy lynching MoI, I was just discussing it in the context that I understand Minimum's view of him and MoI was complaining about it. I'm done with the subject. As for the name thing, I was just puzzled as to why you'd bring it up when it is my account's name, but whatever, I guess.

I'm like the Helen of Troy of Westeros.

Your face is a drydock.

There are no words for how perfect this is. Thank you, you just made Homer and assorted works a lot better.

I keep trying to use [unchoose]/[choose] tags. >.>

UNCHOOSE: Mastermind of Sin
CHOOSE: greenknight

In other news, Plumamma's post was a beauty and does away with my iffy scumread on them. In more important news, I would totally elope with Mina.

[Tyene Sand]

So... do the Salamence voters care to tell me why he'd hang a lampshade on the fact that this game is going so much over his head that his reads haven't changed? If he was faking it, I'd expect him to at least have changed a read or two between Post 433 and Post 681.

Faraday, your inability at posting at the top of page is going to get me drunk way too fast. Please be more competent in the future.

@Shinori: *Tierce, please and thank you. Why the townread on Staeg?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Why does he have to be faking about the game going over his head to be scum? Just curious.

[Tyene Sand]

If he were scum, he'd be trying to look like he's making a real effort. The copy-pasted reads list shows Salamence doesn't really care how he comes across, because he doesn't have anything to fear.

[Shinori]

We'll see.

Choosing should be policy lynch central since I can easily imagine choosing scum and giving that scumbag a strongman vig being worse for the town than taking out 2 townies that would otherwise get mislynched or screw up in some other way.

Ahh you are correct...

FYI the assassin thing is only a D1 event like thing. Nailing scum is still best as it equates to a 1-1 trade off... i.e. always good for town.

But I'm sure a viable PL target will showthemselves eventually to be chosen.

So do you want to treat it like a policy lynch or a regular one?

VOTE: Benmage.

Plessiezarus, besides me, who are your scum-reads?

Dolorous Edd, I will ask you again. What is your read on Minimum?

Unvote: Benmage

>Best 600 post difference vote park.

What are your reads, so far? ~Zar.

I think Regfan and Benmage look town. I'm also getting townish vibes from Tyene and MoI. I think Feysal and Starbuck looked townish, they were getting some heat but I didn't find them suspicious.

I'm hesitant in giving D.Edd/Arthur a town read. His play seems to fit his usual town play, though he seems somewhat different. It's been harder for me to get a good read on him ever since he

turned to the dark side

started playing here.

I'm having a hard time getting a read on Minimum. The idea I have of Mina's town play is that I usually agree with her and get early town reads on her, which hasn't happened in this game, though I don't think she has posted much? As for CES, I don't really know how to read him and the freshest memory I have of his play is when he managed to survive a whole game as scum without doing anything but voting without reason. So, I'm kinda worried about them, I'd like to see more from Mina.

These are all just general impressions from the top of my head. I don't have any real scum-reads, most of the players haven't made any impression on me and I need to do some re-reads and ISO's.

I think this also explains why I haven't "contributed" much and my lack of suspects. I don't think there's a single subject that hasn't been touched by meta and I can't evaluate anything that is related to meta from a player I'm not familiar with.

Are you saying you plan to be this unhelpful

all game

?

~ Pless

No, it means I'll be able to read them better once there's more than meta to work with, like a lynch...

On a different note,

I think D.Edd is town. Alek's posts seem to fit his usual town play. His town read on me had some weight in this, I don't think he'd just throw it out like that if he was scum.

I have a weaker town read on Hyperion. I'm not a big fan of his posts, but his play this game reminds me his play in a recent Westeros mini (93.5), where he was town and got mislynched.

As I was reading Tammy's #423 I was thinking of how a common scum symptom is difficulty in finding suspects. I did not like SnowStorm's #360 either,

in particular the joke about unvoting being boring because it did not allow for that kind of situation was bad. Situation like what?

I was reminded of Mikujin way back in Storm of Swords, and how he was never able to form any suspicions during his time in the game. SnowStorm is starting to look suspect in the same way.

The situation was thinking that I was contradicting myself with the town read and vote, when the town read nullified the vote. I basically used that to reaction testing, since I had no better place for my vote.

No, it means I'll be able to read them better once there's more than meta to work with, like a lynch...

Your passive stance is out of character though.

Why aren't you questioning players? Isn't there anything that you have found odd this far in game?

Umm, it's not. I'm really not an aggressive player; I only get aggressive when more aggressive players aren't playing, like in smaller games and later game days (or when someone really annoys me...). As for odd things, yeah, I've found some but I need to do some re-reading. I don't want to start asking about things that have already been explained or that are from a different player, I need to make sure the odd things are really odd. And I'm not talking about anything specific here, just in general.

I'm getting slight scum vibes from Snow mostly due to post 194 wherein he talks about scum not killing Jon Snow if we send them to the wall. Especially when he asks "What do you think?" It feels like a callback to Dolorous Edd's post 14 which someone called a town-tell not much sooner. I know someone said Snow's over-thinking of the flavor is a town-tell of sorts, but I just don't think his post seemed completely genuine.

@Snow

: Who do you think is scummy?

Of all the people voting me I think you presented one of the worst reasons. Why would I (or anyone in my position) as scum, make that post?

I don't have any scum reads atm, as I said, I need to re-read. But I do have some bad feelings about Minimum and now about you.

SnowStorm's Post 360 comes across as very forced. It seems like he's covering his ass with that Benmage vote/townread; now he's admitting (again) that he thinks Benmage is town, and that admitting to it makes the vote lose its power--so... you were voting a townread: what was the intended 'power' about the vote that

admitting it is on a townread

makes it lose? It makes no sense, it's not even fishing for reactions or seeing who jumps on the wagon; it's literally a useless vote. What's more, here he is admitting it is a bad vote for all intents and purposes, that unvoting is boring, but chooses to leave a useless vote there when he has things like an apparent scumread on me. Makes very very little sense from town, but makes sense like scum scouting out a wagon possibility before hopping on it.

I don't think it's inherently scummy, but when I've done it I've usually made an announcement that that is what I have done and that I will move it when I decide who it's going to go onto if I for whatever reason don't unvote (but that's usually when we're nearing deadline and I'm actively searching for someone to vote instead.) And, this is the problem I'm having is that you're not actively looking for suspects; you're not actively engaging with anyone in the game really. You picked up on the Ben issue and I have no problem with that, but that is pretty much all you have done other than discuss theory. And then you gave a few townish reads and said that there was pretty no scum reads, basically you nulled everyone. The manner in which you gave your reads was rather stilted as well. All of this made me suspicious. If it were just the vote, and you were being active in the game, I probably wouldn't have even noticed.

Exactly this, though it hurts me to admit that the wolf might have a point. He had a somewhat viable suspect elsewhere, and just sits there on that vote he called useless. It feels like he's choosing not to engage.

Across all of his posts he does nothing but state a few town reads, vote park on Benmage, talk about the vig kill, never chooses anyone, and says that he has ZERO scum reads(I bolded that)

He isn't scum hunting nor is he really being beneficial to the town. He also has randomly vanished.

##Unvote
##Vote: Snowstorm