A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Shinori]

Town read on steag is partially meta based. He's here and he's posting, questioning people, prodding people, posting reads, he's not lurk scum that I've seen him before.

[Eddard Stark]

Viserys I was the King of the Seven Kingdoms and head of House Targaryen. He ruled from 103AL to 129AL. He succeeded his grandfather, Jaehaerys I.

Day 1, Votecount 26

MagnaofIllusion (1) - Shadow1psc
Starbuck (1) - DCXLVI

SnowStorm (6) - Plessiezarus, Regfan, Tyene Sand, Feysal, Jal, Shinori

Minimum (5) - MagnaofIllusion, Salamence20, Hasdgfas, Lyanna Stark, greenknight
Salamence20 (4) - Amrun, Minimum, bvoigt, Mastermind of Sin
Feysal (1) - Starbuck
Shinori (4) - Pandora, BBmolla, Staeg, Dolorous Edd
Shadow1psc (1) - StefanB
bvoigt (1) - Plum's Yo Mamma

Not Voting (4):

Mockingjaye, kortul, SnowStorm, Benmage

With 28 alive it takes 15 to lynch.

• Deadline
  : 3rd September at 11:59pm Ireland time. (GMT+1)
  
• Countdown to deadline
  : (expired on 2012-09-03 18:59:59)
  
• MOI is V/la.

CHOOSE to be cool

Tyene Sand (1) - Feysal
Dolorous Edd (2) - hasdgfas, Jal

Feysal (5) - Dolorous Edd, Salamence20, Bvoigt, greenknight, Shinori

Hasdgfas (1) - Shadow1psc
Minimum (2) - Regfan, StefanB
Starbuck (2) - Starbuck, Staeg
DCLXVI (1) - Pandora
Shadow1psc (4) - BBmolla, MagnaofIllusion, Mastermind of Sin, Lyanna Stark
greenknight (3) - Plum's Yo Mamma, Minimum, Tyene Sand

Not Choosing (7):

Mockingjaye, kortul, DCXLVI, Amrun, Plessiezarus, SnowStorm, Benmage

With 28 alive it takes 15 to 'Choose'. Once a choose has 15 votes it will be locked in but not end day.

Any mistakes, please point them out.

[Salamence20]

If he were scum, he'd be trying to look like he's making a real effort. The copy-pasted reads list shows Salamence doesn't really care how he comes across, because he doesn't have anything to fear.

Hey!!! Someone understands me!!!! About time!!!

I'm not one that does much on day 1, I play much better when flips start happening, but thats more because I suck at scumhunting.

Why does he have to be faking about the game going over his head to be scum? Just curious.

lolno, Sala don't fake being VI because he is VI. There is alot of content here.

Unvote, Vote: Sala

Yeah, because your play has been so much better. I'm atleast glad to see you're not voting and choosing the same person anymore.

Spoiler: MoS Case

Choose: Zoraster

Oooooh, we can vote, too?

Vote: Zoraster

Choose: Zoraster

=P

K, Plum is town.

Unchoose, Choose: Minimum

baaaaaaa

Gay. CES is clearly wrong about who we should choose but I don't think he's scum for holding that position.

Unchoose

aaaaaand I'm already annoyed by the roleplaying.

22) Pandora (Hydra)

wait...we have an anonymous hydra in this game? Fuck that shit.

aaaaaand I'm already annoyed by the roleplaying.

You're boring MoS. (And for someone who tends to annoy people in games just for the fun of it a little hypocritical.)

Also, I think it's fun that we have a Starbuck and someone with a totally different name but an av of Starbuck.

I only annoy people for the fun of it when provoked. Don't give me a reason.

Vote: Pandora

Choose: Pandora

Fuck anonymous hydras.

They are not anonymous, MoS, and if you bothered to read either them or the thread you'd realize their identity. Pandora is Quilford + Shadoweh, and your 'policy' reeks.

Mod should totes update the first post then.

It's bad enough that there are hydras at all in this game, but an anonymous one would be unforgivable.

Unvote

Unchoose

These are your first few posts and I had made better posts than shit. But I will admit your later play is much better.

[Mastermind of Sin]

If he were scum, he'd be trying to look like he's making a real effort.

The copy-pasted reads list shows Salamence doesn't really care how he comes across, because he doesn't have anything to fear.

You think I'm scum because

why

?

lolno, Sala don't fake being VI because he is VI. There is alot of content here.

I'm not voting you for "faking being VI". I just wanted to know what led Tierce to make the conclusion that because you weren't faking being VI that you also weren't scum, because those two are not mutually exclusive. (I would know, I've been burned on that once or twice)

Yeah, because your play has been so much better. I'm atleast glad to see you're not voting and choosing the same person anymore.

Once again, I'm not voting you for bad play, so I hardly see how that's relevant.

[Pandora]

You shouldn't act like VI is a prestigeous title. >_> Why did you label that as a case when it's clearly whatever the opposite of a case is?

So despite redFF morphing into a hellcat and there being quite a few people agreeing in the scuminess, I've been left stranded as usual. Whatever, I don't even care anymore. Since none of you are going to listen to me I'm going to blatantly sheep the only person who matters.

##Unchoose
##Choose: greenknight

On the other hand this Shinori wagon disintegrating is depressing. Looking back at the current voters, Beyond Staeg's vote he never mentions HyperShinori again. He's also still on his original choose on Starbuck.

Droopy dog

Molla isn't much better. asdfkg Edd does the same thing am I the only person on this wagon actually reading the fucking posts of the person I'm voting for instead of getting comfy while having wall arguments with everyone else? No wonder this isn't happening. If someone were to put a gun to my head right now and make me choose I'd go for SnowStorm but I was wondering if maybe the multiple people who mentioned HyperShinori looks scummy could look at him and vote him for being scum? -.-

I also pass the motion that talking about what a bad player MoI is should be stricken from the conversation as A) He scared the crap out of me as scum B) If he was that terrible he wouldn't get killed so often and C) We're like 20 pages past policy lynches mattering. He'll probably just catch a bad case of MoI to the face anyways.

- Totes Quilford. No one will ever be able to tell if it's not, rite?

[Salamence20]

Then what are you voting me for?

[Plessiezarus]

We both agree with Plum's reasoning on greenknight, and feel this is a good place to put our Choose vote on.

CHOOSE: GREENKNIGHT

~ Zar.

[SnowStorm]

I liked PleZar's reads (#621 - ). Their vote has been on me since the beginning and it started as a joke vote, I was worried because they hadven't moved their vote, even though they seemed to have other suspects.(side-note, all the links in that post link to the first post)

I agree with their suspicion of Bvoigt, I get some odd vibes from him. I'll elaborate on this later.

As for why I unvoted. Well, why wouldn't I? My stance was the same. I mean, my vote on Benmage was already null, I was just making it oficial, while generating a possible topic of conversation.

[SnowStorm]

@SnowStorm

Of all the people voting me I think you presented one of the worst reasons. Why would I (or anyone in my position) as scum, make that post?

I don't have any scum reads atm, as I said, I need to re-read. But I do have some bad feelings about Minimum and now about you.

Why scum would make that post:

"Especially when he asks "What do you think?" It feels like a callback to Dolorous Edd's post 14 which someone called a town-tell not much sooner."

To use a phrase that someone already declared was a town-tell of sorts and hopefully apply said tell to work for themselves. Helpful when a bandwagon is starting on someone, no?

I don't like this post. I hate your tone. You think I'm scum because I said "what do you think?", which someone had declared to be a town tell earlier, thus making it a scum-tell for anyone who said it after. That makes perfect sense . (See Tyene, some people do believe scum = stupid.)

Now then, is my post really one of the worst reasonings presented? Tsk. I thought I was

at the very least

ahead of the people getting on you for not saying hi or being too serious at the beginning.

Maybe instead of writing walls explaining how you don't have any scum reads or that you need to reread, you should do just go ahead on the rereading bit and come back to us.

Yeah, that's what I said. I can understand why someone like Regfan (who has played with me) would think I had an odd start, it's not a bad reason, especially for the start of the game. Do you think that reason was worse than yours? You're calling someone else's reasons to vote me bad, yet, it's clear that your intention is to make

me

look bad. Because you never really brought that up until now. So what's your point?

Hey Jal, what are YOUR thoughts on Minimum? You keep asking that to D.Edd but you never expressed any thoughts on Minimum yourself.

Hmm, my gut currently leans to the townier side of things. I'd like to see Minimum without all the pressure, though.

By the way, asking the question (again) yourself isn't going to help you gain any town cred.

So my questions are not any relevant because I'm just trying to win some town cred? Seriously? According to you I shouldn't even bother asking any questions, because I'm not getting town cred for them. You don't think for a second that I ask questions to help me get some reads? WTF was the point in saying that? That whole post was about you antagonizing me. So you're either scum or you're a pretty confident townie, but then why haven't you tried to convince everyone else of my guiltiness, why do you only have one crappy argument against me?

Vote: Jal.

[greenknight]

What do you think of Plum's case on BVoigt?

As you might expect since I have bvoigt on my suspect list, I partially agree with it. The core of the argument against bvoigt for me is that his attack on Sala is hypocritical; he accuses Sala of not doing much while he himself isn't doing much, same thing with attacking weak players. Plum also makes a good point about the comments about the Minimum wagon being lazy.

I don't agree with the questions bvoigt asks in his earlier play-by-play catchup being scumtells though, it seems fairly common for players doing this, regardless of alignment, to question any post they don't understand and just move on if the reply isn't suspicious.

And the case on me is just bad. I sheeped MoI on minimum because I found the same posts suspicious that he did. In fact, I said so up front and didn't claim it was a reaction test; what I was explaining to pless was that voting immediately on a scumread would move the wagon -> reaction -> evaluate process of the town as a whole faster than sitting on a null vote.


Minimum 758: Whether you intended to or not, you drew a connection between your own MoI choose vote and the sarcastic comments on page 2 when you said in post 34 "or alternatively, just choose MoI."

[MagnaofIllusion]

As for why I unvoted. Well, why wouldn't I? My stance was the same. I mean, my vote on Benmage was already null, I was just making it oficial, while generating a possible topic of conversation.

VOTE: Snowstorm. The level of crap being posted by yours truly has reached the point of no return.

Why wouldn't you? Well for starters you made such a strong point about it not mattering before. And now you've 180ed and taken the complete opposite stance ... that there is no reason not to do it. Guess what? There was no reason not to do it before either. Add in your "I'm making a topic for conversation" craptasm (hint ... actually scum-hunting makes for great conversation) and voila ... you get my vote.

Frankly given that too many players in the game is more worried about "Oh, what a bad move it would be to get rid of Minimum if they are Town" (which it wouldn't be but I digress) instead of actually lynching scum I can't say as I really care at this point. Too many players with no discernable backbone ...

If I live past Night 1 maybe I'll be motivated to begin caring again. Until then I'll probably prod-dodge out the day

so I don't have to see all the whining in thread

.

[SnowStorm]

Across all of his posts he does nothing but state a few town reads, vote park on Benmage, talk about the vig kill, never chooses anyone, and says that he has ZERO scum reads(I bolded that)

He isn't scum hunting nor is he really being beneficial to the town. He also has randomly vanished.

##Unvote
##Vote: Snowstorm

Hey, I just randomly appeared (that should be one less point against me). You already had me in your scum list, but you only moved your vote to me after somebody asked you why you suspected me. It looks like you didn't have any reason to suspect me until now that you had to actually look into me to explain your pseudo-suspicion of me. Apparently I was more suspicious than you thought so you decided to switch your vote from Minimum to me.

This is really odd. I skimmed over your ISO and noticed that your Minimum vote was a kind of placeholder. So, if you weren't confident with that vote and suspected other players, why did you only read them when you were prompted for an explanation of your scum-reads on them?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Then what are you voting me for?

Gut, re: my previous post about it.

If I live past Night 1 maybe I'll be motivated to begin caring again. Until then I'll probably prod-dodge out the day so I don't have to see all the whining in thread.

MoI, when did you turn into me?

[Salamence20]

MoI: what is your read on me, shinori, and MoS?

MoS: Gut is nothing. But ok

[Eddard Stark]

Prodding Feysal

[Salamence20]

MoS: What are your reads?

[Amrun]

okay

so my new apt didn't have wifi the first night + day I was here.........

It has it now

I'm working on it

right now

but I might fall asleep x.x

But I will definitely finish this within 24ish hours, no exceptions. Settling into new place mostly now.

[SnowStorm]

As for why I unvoted. Well, why wouldn't I? My stance was the same. I mean, my vote on Benmage was already null, I was just making it oficial, while generating a possible topic of conversation.

VOTE: Snowstorm. The level of crap being posted by yours truly has reached the point of no return.

Why wouldn't you? Well for starters you made such a strong point about it not mattering before. And now you've 180ed and taken the complete opposite stance ... that there is no reason not to do it. Guess what? There was no reason not to do it before either. Add in your "I'm making a topic for conversation" craptasm (hint ... actually scum-hunting makes for great conversation) and voila ... you get my vote.

My vote on Benmage was already meaningless when I unvoted. If the vote didn't matter, the lack of it doesn't matter either. It's not that hard to understand.

[SnowStorm]

On bvoigt:

I agree with Plums case on him. I hadn't like his first posts. The nameclaim thing seemed like easy contribution and then the Sala vote also felt easy. I also didn't like this sentence:

I think Lyanna is town.

Should probably reread Minimum and Edd. Even though they've posted a lot, I haven't really "noticed" them.

It sounds odd. How could he not have noticed them? Ok, the quotation marks seem to imply that he noticed their posts, but that he just didn't remember anything about them, which is still odd considering they posted a lot and have rather strong opinions. Later he never mentions having read them, but he gives their reads on them after posting his case on Sala (null on Min, town on Edd - which was kind of the consensus at that moment), he also doesn't justify those reads, which makes it less likely that he reread them like he said he would.

---

So, my current scum reads are: Jal, bvoigt and Shinori.

[Dolorous Edd]

Jal is totally scum. Seriously. No jokes. Go ISO him in Newbie 1237 and go look at this. In 1237 he was so town it hurt by like mid-day1. His overall tone and everything feels so off this time.

Plus his Snowstorm vote is crap. In the same post where he votes, he simply says that he is getting "slight scum vibes" from Snowstorm and he doesn't think his posts are "completely" genuine. This kind of ambiguous statments feel forced as hell and he looks like he is trying to justify bandwagoning Snow.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jal

[kortul]

*sigh* Another sprint of posts within several hours. Guess i won't rush things, will take a good night sleep, open all the pages separately in a browser in the morning and will read them through a long flight from New York back to Europe, until the battery lasts. Hopefully this way i will finish reread on Wednesday.

Meanwhile some thoughts. Several times i've seen suggestions to choose a town for an assassin mission. Most likely that means that they suggest that common town read or obvtown should be chosen. Even if the read would be accurate and the choosen one is town, how would you figure out that he/she isn't some PR, without essentially forcing him to claim (directly or indirectly)? Unless there is some real good way of doing this, those supporting the idea can agree on volunteers as possible candidates (for now MoI and Starbuck, as far as i remember). Even if the volunteer is scum looking for town credit, he/she would be stuck in a gambit.

But that complicates things, imho, second lynch is more straighforward and logical approach.

[Feysal]

I didn't ignore it, I simply saw no point in commenting on your reply, as I was proven wrong and acted accordingly by shifting off that wagon. Do note you are not part of my scumreads. Don't expect me to go in a All Hail Feysal The Obvtown soliloquy when I shift off your wagon because I have a better read on someone else/am willing to sheep a townread; you became a null read, I moved to somewhere I believe has a better chance of flipping scum.

You can drop the sarcasm, that was also not the sort of response I expected. I wanted to hear your thoughts, and seeing you simply drop it seemed unlike you.

I'm actually quite uncomfortable and suspicious towards the way Feysal acted in Post 448 toward me. He's the first to want to put things into context, yet the way he treated my reason for my Choosing of Lyanna at the

beginning

of the game, which was clearly explained to Benmage as part of a conversation, was as if it was something that had something to do with the

then-present

gamestate. It feels artificial and scummy.

You know, explaining that you would have Tammy out of the game before she had posted, and apparently Amrun too if she were playing, does not make any more sense to me. If you were not being whimsical or random voting, what was it? Neither of those players is one I would ever consider lynching on policy. And what was the point of post #237 anyway, since it reads only as being sort of dismissive of their ability as players? For the record, when I said I would have Tammy in LYLO if I could it was not just about her being obvious town, it was a vote of confidence that I would trust her with making the right choice.

That brings me to what I wanted to know in the first place. What is up with the constant jabs between you and Tammy? You act like there is an unresolved grudge or twenty that you are feuding over.

This is quite ridiculous, as anyone who has played with MoI-town knows he's confrontational regardless of alignment.

I have played almost exclusively with scum MoI, but I'm basing my stance on my experience with him in Children of Húrin. I suspected him early in that game, but reversed my read when his play changed for the better. As it turned out he had a third party role, and the change in his play coincided with him giving up on his primary lyncher win condition, and attempting to achieve his secondary win condition which involved helping the town.

Feysal - You said you have a town read of Magna mostly because he's making sense and not being as confrontational. You're not the least bit paranoid about him?

Not at the moment, no. If he survives three or four nights, that will be different, but in all likelihood he will be dead before that. He does not have that title for nothing.

Well it definitely isn't for everyone. Our games are extremely fast paced, with 32 hour days and 2-8 hour nights and games last about a week. Last week day one produced 35 pages of content in a 32 hour day. It's pretty demanding but provides a different skill set of sorts, maybe. We might privately know, by meta, why people are their alignment but the rules force us to focus on the behavior publicly, for the most part. There are pros and cons to both, but it works for us. It's how I learned to play, so I like it.

I could possibly deal with the speed, since I also learned to play mafia on another site at a much faster pace, but the ban on using meta would probably frustrate me to the point of getting modkilled. It sounds like a completely pointless restriction to me. I know something about those, too. My site used to have a rule about all votes having to be correctly spelled and case-sensitive. This resulted in a player named LozHinge the Unhinged being repeatedly killed on night zero, since no one could be bothered to spell his name correctly while voting.

I don't remember

Cow

being this overconfident and prone to exaggeration when I've seen him play before, but the bravado has an obvious town motivation even if it's faked. More likely town than scum, but I'm not as certain of it as everyone else is.

Um.

Is

everyone else certain of this? Can't see him as anything but null at the moment.

I also read him as pretty much null, though I did not like his jump on me earlier. Perhaps he was too busy spreading his arms to notice I was mislynched for the exact same reason in Storm of Swords.

Also, everyone should reevaluate/recheck their read on Regfan. I got bad vibes from his ISO. I think because he came into the game strongly, people assumed right away he's town (me included). Seems like his posts of summaries/reads on a lot of players strike me of what I tend to do as scum (see example). OTOH, I'm not familiar with Regfan-meta too much, so I'm not sure if he tends to do this as town.

He does, and I read Regfan as solid town.

I don't understand how everyone is so sure that scum would shoot another scum. It's being said like it is fact and that it will definitely happen that way. I don't believe it will, so while my opinion on it is unpopular (look at all the people who have hopped on my bandwagon to prove that point), I don't believe that it is wrong or scummy.

This post has already been torn to shreds by others, but it serves to highlight how Starbuck does not seem to be reading the same game we are. I cannot trace her thoughts at all, and I don't understand how anyone could have a town read on her.

She has seemed confused so far, but you seem to be implying that it's a scumtell. That doesn't make sense to me.

If I could see a town thought pattern behind her confusion, that would be one thing. But I cannot understand where she is coming from at all, and I don't trust that.

But how will we know that we are choosing scum? We don't. So why not have some control over this rather than none at all?

How will we know the person the chosen townie shoots is scum? God damn.

Most underwhelming catch-up post ever.

Currently at page 24, will finish catching up later.

[hasdgfas]

Cow what do you think of the scum logic in a posting style like the ones you quoted here: post 382

The first post I quoted there is him claiming scum, and as already mentioned, that's one of my policy votes when I see it.

Secondly, "too much is being taken too seriously" is a way for scum to say "don't pay attention to what I do early because it's unimportant". Basically, his scum logic is play "too scummy to be scum".

Nice way to twist words, where did I ever say what I do isn't important? Nor did I call myself too scummy to be scum, I merely pointed out that scum don't tend to intentionally act scummy. Seems redundant. Your entire argument is based around a huge discussion you never really responded to. You've contributed less than I have, by and large to the current discussions for that matter. Just because I'm loud and in your face, y u hatin ; ;

I didn't say you said it. I said that what you said is basically you saying that. Was there something I should have responded to? I must have missed it. I've contributed less because there's too much talking for me to contribute to. I'm hating because you're scum.

[Tyene Sand]

@Feysal - You don't get it. They are players I have not had particularly good experiences with, there is always a clash of wills regardless of alignment (and occasionally scum taking advantage of that catfight situation when we're Town; see the fact that Amrun and I were both alive at the end of Weather Mafia II as town). Am I pushing them now? Am I pushing MoI, who is another someone I'd rather have out of games I'm part of? No, I'm not--because I have townreads on Tammy/Lyanna and MoI.

Not liking Tammy's playstyle does not mean I don't accept that she can be a good player.

Post 237 is far from dismissive of her ability as a player, I'm explaining how her playstyle clashes with mine. I didn't think this would be so hard to understand or a point you would be hung up on, since I have shown no interest in lynching Tammy since I moved my first Choosing away from her.

The jabs between Tammy and me are (currently) playful and rather evident of that. Look at our flavor alts, look at the Houses, look at a certain Targaryen with rubies in his armor. Dorne does not have particularly good relations with Winterfell. It's RP banter, because that's

fun

.

Go read Experimental Role Mafia (with a nice helping of fail!scumTierce in multiball) and Mafia Behind the Maiden (Regfan was third-party, Benmage, MoI, Tammy and I were town)--you'll see what I mean about MoI being confrontational regardless of alignment.

I really don't like how you're devoting so much time to things that are null in nature and proven by interactions in previous games; this is not something I could conceivably lie about as either alignment, as the forums are riddled with proof of what I think about this subset of people. So how do you think this is helping you get a read on me, Feysal?

@Hascow, why are you ignoring my Post 646?

[hasdgfas]

@Hascow, why are you ignoring my Post 646?

Because there's nothing to address?